Fearing 48 years of dues

[BeachClub2014]

Calculate how much it would cost you to stay at Riviera for a week each year. Then compare than to the price of annual dues. You should see that the price of annual dues is much less than the price of a week trip at Riviera each year. This should help a little bit.

Yep. We just booked a 2-bedroom at the Riviera for 274 points. Our cost on those 274 points works out to about $580 per night. The rack rate for the same reservation is about $1550 per night. It doesn't take too many of those reservations to make DVC cost-effective.

 

[EYL]

RIV has the longest contract length, and yet is selling for at least 20% less than BLT, PVB, and VGF. The resale restriction certainly is having an impact; albeit perhaps not as significant as had been initially feared.

I would wait for RIV to sell out first to compare. Why would anyone buy RIV resale at PVB resale prices when RIV direct would only be $10-$20 more, depending on the incentives. Time and data will tell...

 

[Wakey]

You have been able to rent the points easily for roughly twice dues since ive been a member, and for over 25 years save for a few recessions it’s been easy to sell the contract.
I think DVC is a fairly worry free purchase.

 

[skippytx]

You have been able to rent the points easily for roughly twice dues since ive been a member, and for over 25 years save for a few recessions it’s been easy to sell the contract.
I think DVC is a fairly worry free purchase.

Agreed. I've never once worried about my DVC purchase at all. Even worst case scenario I can't imagine a situation where I couldn't rent my points for at least my annual dues cost if it came down to it.

 

[Nursemanit]

I would wait for RIV to sell out first to compare. Why would anyone buy RIV resale at PVB resale prices when RIV direct would only be $10-$20 more, depending on the incentives. Time and data will tell...

For the 200 points, the OP wants RR is 188 a point direct - so resale is $40 less but very restricted. The real kicker is that RR is $266/year more in maintenance than VGF - that eats the difference in incentives quickly. But you have to like the resort you buy. Too many look at an initial price and resale restrictions when it is the maintenance that will get you.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Complements of DVC Resale Market.

Riv dues aren't that out of what and have the lowest rate of increase since inception.

Disney Vacation Club Annual Dues for 2022 and Changes Overtime​

Resort	2022 Annual Dues	2021 Annual Dues	Growth 2021 to 2022	Inception to Date CAGR*
Animal Kingdom	$8.24	$8.07	2.0%	3.9%
Aulani**	$8.67	$8.35	3.8%	3.8%
Bay Lake Tower	$7.08	$6.90	2.7%	5.2%
Beach Club	$7.54	$7.44	1.3%	3.6%
Boardwalk	$8.08	$7.81	3.4%	3.0%
Boulder Ridge	$8.15	$8.11	0.5%	4.1%
Copper Creek	$7.60	$7.59	0.2%	0.7%
Grand Californian	$7.48	$6.99	7.0%	5.2%
Grand Floridian	$7.01	$6.81	2.9%	2.9%
Hilton Head	$10.07	$9.97	1.0%	6.9%
Old Key West	$8.81	$8.36	5.4%	4.4%
Polynesian	$7.39	$7.05	4.7%	3.1%
Riviera Resort	$8.38	$8.38	0.0%	0.6%
Saratoga Springs	$7.33	$7.11	3.1%	3.7%
Vero Beach***	$11.94	$11.23	6.3%	4.9%

*Compound Annual Growth Rate (CAGR) is the year over year growth rate of the dues over a multiple-year period
**Aulani Contracts that originated pre-July 6th, 2011 have dues in 2022 of $6.52/pt.
***Vero Contracts that originated pre-January 1st, 1996 have dues in 2022 of $9.41/pt.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Do what we did before purchasing and write a spreadsheet to compare the cost of your MFs vs a cash stay where you would be staying if you hadn't bought DVC. We used an AoA family suite. Figure in a reasonable rate of inflation for your MFs (those are actual costs, not escalated), then figure in a larger rate of inflation on the cash stay (those are very much Disney escalated). If you think 48 years of MFs are bad, just take a look at your estimated cash stay cost after 5-10 years. It is shocking, but it is also real. Our estimate so far has been pretty spot-on. I really don't mind paying the DVC MFs by comparison.

This all assumes you really will be continuing to use your DVC on a regular basis. If you find yourself losing points it's time to sell. NMW, when you compare the cost of MFs to cash stay you are going to come out ahead.

 

[Sandisw]

RIV has the longest contract length, and yet is selling for at least 20% less than BLT, PVB, and VGF. The resale restriction certainly is having an impact; albeit perhaps not as significant as had been initially feared.

Of course the restrictions make it a different product and the buyer pool is smaller. However, it is not selling, on average, for at least 20% of all of those resorts. DVC Resale Market has an average price of $145 for RIV...yes, there have been some that have gone for less, but some for more. I paid $152 last summer.

Contract length alone isn't a determining factor in why someone buys a resort. Its the resort itself and in a few years, when we have more resorts that are restricted, then it is very possible that RIV will settle in and be in line with all the other resorts.

 

[DVCanadian]

If you don’t want to pay 48 years of dues plan to sell.
You are not trapped. You are not locked in.
There is a very active resale market.
I can sell my contracts for more than double what I paid, I don’t want to sell because I want to use them, using them means paying dues.

Don’t want to deal with dues? Rent points when you visit instead, can be overall cheaper for many people, owning isn’t for everyone.

Good luck!

 

[Sandisw]

If you don’t want to pay 48 years of dues plan to sell.
You are not trapped. You are not locked in.
There is a very active resale market.
I can sell my contracts for more than double what I paid, I don’t want to sell because I want to use them, using them means paying dues.

Don’t want to deal with dues? Rent points when you visit instead, can be overall cheaper for many people, owning isn’t for everyone.

Good luck!

And worse case scenario, you do what I did..figure when you could give it away and if comfortable owning that long, your golden.

While don’t know now the resale market could go when More restricted resorts comes in to play, we know they will always be worth something!!!!

 

[RoseGold]

To me, buying resale is much less commitment because if I change my mind, I sell it. If you do that for RIV, after buying direct, you will take a big hit. Like driving a new car off the lot.

RIV has been open since 2019 and is half sold. Reality is we don’t know what will happen with the restrictions and the resale pricing in the future. To me, the resale restrictions are an automatic no for RIV, unless you really know you are committed for decades. That doesn’t sound like you.

 

[RoseGold]

We used an AoA family suite. Figure in a reasonable rate of inflation for your MFs (those are actual costs, not escalated), then figure in a larger rate of inflation on the cash stay (those are very much Disney escalated). If you think 48 years of MFs are bad, just take a look at your estimated cash stay cost after 5-10 years. It is shocking, but it is also real. Our estimate so far has been pretty spot-on.

I also used an AoA family suite, and somehow that room went up more than I calculated! However, the comp I didn’t see coming was Swolphin, which can swing even cheaper than my original 2018 hotel room math.

If I had known swolphin would have stayed so cheap, and Disney would play all of these games like the AP and reservations, maybe I wouldn’t have bought in.

 

[K6+Mickey]

I like the suggestion of renting the points to cover dues during times that we can’t travel. Will the per point rental rates increase over time similar to the dues?

 

[Nursemanit]

I also used an AoA family suite, and somehow that room went up more than I calculated! However, the comp I didn’t see coming was Swolphin, which can swing even cheaper than my original 2018 hotel room math.

If I had known swolphin would have stayed so cheap, and Disney would play all of these games like the AP and reservations, maybe I wouldn’t have bought in.

I am buying into DVC because the Dolphin is no longer cheaper than DVC - once you add parking and resort fees. I even get a nurse discount and it can be 400/night when all fees are added - Dvc is about 300 night for boardwalk if you go weekly for 10 years.

 

[RoseGold]

I am buying into DVC because the Dolphin is no longer cheaper than DVC - once you add parking and resort fees.

I don't ever park, so no idea there, but a couple months ago Dolphin was 179 for Thanksgiving and Christmas. There's no way DVC is competitive with that. Dolphin and Swan swing wildly. I've seen them at $149 or $500. For the next trip I'm doing, Dolphin is at $202.

And there's renting DVC points, which I would argue is mathematically even or slightly better on some properties.

It's not like the only choices are buy RIV for 47 years or stay at Pop.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I don't ever park, so no idea there, but a couple months ago Dolphin was 179 for Thanksgiving and Christmas. There's no way DVC is competitive with that. Dolphin and Swan swing wildly. I've seen them at $149 or $500. For the next trip I'm doing, Dolphin is at $202.

And there's renting DVC points, which I would argue is mathematically even or slightly better on some properties.

It's not like the only choices are buy RIV for 47 years or stay at Pop.

What do the 2-bedroom villas run at the Swan or Dolphin during Thanksgiving or Christmas?

 

[RoseGold]

What do the 2-bedroom villas run at the Swan or Dolphin during Thanksgiving or Christmas?

Two $179 rooms at Dolphin would be nowhere near the cost of a 2BR at DVC at Christmas. Not even in the ballpark. Maybe you bought DVC and want to pay more for that 2BR, fine. But if you are buying to save money, this matters.

I bought DVC and I own DVC, but I don't think the math is anywhere close to as obvious as it was when I bought in.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Two $179 rooms at Dolphin would be nowhere near the cost of a 2BR at DVC at Christmas. Not even in the ballpark. Maybe you bought DVC and want to pay more for that 2BR, fine. But if you are buying to save money, this matters.

I bought DVC and I own DVC, but I don't think the math is anywhere close to as obvious as it was when I bought in.

Well, two rooms at the Dolphin are nowhere near the same amenities, or quality as a 2-bedroom villa at the Riviera. The OP's question/concern was about the dues, not trying to find the cheapest way to go to WDW, but perhaps I misread the post. It's been known to happen.

I 100% agree with you that you can find cheaper places to stay and go to WDW if that is the goal.

 

[RoseGold]

And I'd argue Dolphin has better beds, toiletries, service, food choices, and LOCATION. It's hard for me to come up with any way DVC's "quality" is better than Marriott. Sure, shiny new RIV has nice tile, but there are plenty of very, very tired DVC properties and sleeper sofas. Oh, and you don't have to be locked into a timeshare for 47 years. It depends on what OP values.

OP sounds like they are on the fence. I think it's important to know the other options, and I think locking into this incredibly complicated system is not for everyone, even if RIV has nice tile. DVC itself is a complicated product with a lot of rules, and a lot of properties that aren't at Dolphin level. WDW is complicated also. It's a lot.

 

[BeachClub2014]

And I'd argue Dolphin has better beds, toiletries, service, food choices, and LOCATION. It's hard for me to come up with any way DVC's "quality" is better than Marriott. Sure, shiny new RIV has nice tile, but there are plenty of very, very tired DVC properties. Oh, and you don't have to be locked into a timeshare for 47 years. It depends on what OP values.

OP sounds like they are on the fence. I think it's important to know the other options, and I think locking into this incredibly complicated system is not for everyone, even if RIV has nice tile. DVC itself is a complicated product with a lot of rules, and a lot of properties that aren't at Dolphin level. WDW is complicated also. It's a lot.

I've stayed at the Dolphin many times. It ain't that great, even if you can get it at $179, which is seemingly a feat that very few people can achieve. The location isn't really any better than the Riviera, Boardwalk, and Beach Club.

I agree that DVC can be complicated and it can be a lot.