Ever canceled a trip because kids didn't earn it?

[luvsJack]

I wouldn’t cancel any kind of short or long vacation for undone chores. Disney or otherwise.

Like others have said, chores will be there everyday. Family time not so much.

But doing chores at our house was always more of a team effort. Daily chores were done in the afternoon when I got home from work. “Ok guys, while I am cooking supper, I need you to feed the dogs, you take out the trash, you set the table”. Or whatever the chores were. After supper, everyone pitched in to clean the kitchen. Then we could all sit down and relax together.

Saturday morning all the chores were divided up and once every thing was done, we watched a movie or had an outing or whatever. They never gave me a lot of grief about it, I guess because we were all doing work. When they got old enough to mow the yard, dh would be out there with them picking up limbs or whatever.

When the boys were young teens, they would home or somewhere in the vicinity of home all day while I was at work. They had their chore list. Problem was they had very different ideas on how to get it done. One wanted to get up and get it all done and be finished for the day. The other wanted to wait until an hour before I got home and rush to get it all done. . So I learned quickly not to let their chores be dependent on each other. Like one couldn’t do the wash and the other fold the clothes. So one would have the wash from washing the clothes to putting them away. And the other would have something else to do. That way I knew who was getting their stuff done and one wasn’t holding up the other. But even then, punishment for not doing the work was that he had to do it when I got home. That was when plans may get cancelled. Well it happened twice.

 

[disykat]

You did the right thing. You made it clear that you needed their help to pull together a last minute trip and they couldn't manage it, so you couldn't go. You didn't cancel something that was already a done deal, you cancelled something you needed their help to make happen. Sometimes you want to plan fun things and they just can't come together. That's life.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

A last minute trip like this is a lot bigger IMO than say "if you get your chores done by X time we'll go to the movies" or something like that. However, I think some of this may be how trips are even approached. A trip growing up would have meant a lot of investment, time, money, one time missing school, etc.

For my mom the types of 'trips' we went on for her meant time off from work and she couldn't just give that time back. A trip wouldn't have been cancelled for bad behavior but activities or privileges for things on the trip or other things would have been taken away so there was always a consequence to be had for poor behavior. That was my family's situation growing up because trips were not the common day occurance. Going to the movies was, shopping was, going to my fav place to eat was and those were all taken away if poor behavior occurred.

Of course bickering and stalling aren't desired and shouldn't be tolerated so that's not an excuse but I'm not sure I would have sprung it on them like that; purely my opinion. Individuals have bad days. Lord my husband hates to be rushed. He gets frustrated and often snaps when we're trying to run around to get things done and he's an adult lol--and I know he's not alone in that feeling. Sometimes I get that way too and it's just a bad day for me.

 

[aprilgail]

No. I wouldn’t cut my nose off to spite my face.

I remember Penelope Leach talking about dessert in her classic child rearing book. She said dessert should just be part of dinner and not hinge on behavior if you wanted to avoid food battles. I sort of feel the same way about this situation. If, God forbid, something we’re to happen to one of you next fall, would you regret that you missed this trip based on some minor housekeeping disagreements? Aren’t there bigger fish to fry in this day and age? They sound like great kids!

Now yes, of course, I am also a bugger on housekeeping issues. But I wouldn’t cancel a trip over it, no. Trips are important to families. I would find another way to get them to increase their compliance with house rules, but I wouldn’t create a battle over vacations.

Same here! No way would I cancel a trip just for undone chores. Time with the kids goes to fast and you never know what tomorrow brings.

 

[ronandannette]

Yep. According to these boards I am a horrible mom because I only took my daughter to Disney ONCE!!!!

I feel ashamed even writing that out.

There, there, it's going to be OK. You've got plenty of time to make this right. Lots of DIS'ers apparently take their adult children on vacation into perpetuity!

 

[robinb]

No, I never made threats quite that big. But since you did, good for you for sticking to it!

Actually, that’s the worst part and not eligible for ‘kudos’. Making big threats is not noteworthy. It’s telling your kids that you’re crazy people who take away big things for minor infractions. You may eventually get cooperation and compliance but what have you lost? Kids need to trust their parents to lead them. Not be frightened to piss them off.

 

[tcufrog]

I don't believe in threatening consequences that I'm not willing to follow through on. I'm willing to go nuclear when needed to get their attention though. A few years ago we gave my older son my old laptop when I got a new one. He had to sign a contract regarding how he would treat it and use it. We made it clear what the consequences were for breaking the rules and that after x number of times he'd lose it. He proved he couldn't handle it and after he broke the rules in a rather spectacular manner, I told him that he couldn't have it anymore and I very calmly and deliberately broke it in front of him. He knew what the rules were and he had repeatedly shown us disrespect regarding those rules even after we had taken it away when he violated the contract. He had gotten it into his head that it wasn't too big a deal if he broke the rules and lost access to it because he'd always get it back. We needed for him to understand that his actions really did matter and could have lasting consequences that he wouldn't like.

Another time, he somehow figured out my DH's password and bought $60.00 worth of in-app purchases without permission. This was the second time this had happened and we told him the first time that if he did it again that he'd have to pay us back. He didn't believe that 1. he'd get caught and 2. we'd follow through with those consequences because he was a kid and thus didn't have a lot of money. When he got caught, we told him that he owed us $60.00 right then. He told us that he didn't have it so I told him he'd have to sell some of his stuff to pay us back. We went through his room and he couldn't come up with stuff that would realistically net $60 besides his furniture. He was very upset when I told him he'd have to sell $60 worth of his beloved trading cards since it was the only thing he had that would give him enough to pay us back. I made him go online and price them out with DH and figure what he'd have to sell. While they were doing that, I called a card store we frequented, explained the situation and asked for help. They agreed to buy the cards even though they usually didn't buy such small amounts. When we took him to the store DS12 wasn't happy at all and was quite upset when he had to give us the money. He never did that again though.

All of this may sound severe, but we've learned the hard way with DS12 that small punishments don't phase him. Unlike DS8, who usually learns the first time, it's very difficult to levy consequences that actually will convince DS12 to improve the choices he makes. We don't like it, but we're doing what we, unfortunately, must do. I'm naturally a pretty laid back person so this has been tough for me to adapt to.

What am I not willing to do is levy consequences that I haven't warned them about in advance because that's not fair nor am I willing to levy consequences that punish those who haven't done anything wrong. I may sound harsh, but I am equally generous and fair with my rewards when my kids make good choices.

 

[fractalpotato]

Dang, did you really cancel a Dis. trip or hypothetical? No chance to redeem? We're going to be new parents and suddenly these sort of topics are interesting to me. I guess canceling a multi day trip if you live out of state and flying in vs. locals on APs would have a different impact (we'd be the former).

I wouldn't recommend that approach. I guarantee you in 95% of cases it doesn't work as planned. Also, I'd be absolutely considering finances and cancellation fees, I think most people would. Frankly I don't believe half the people that say they would cancel the trip in those circumstances, and I don't think it's ever going to work well.

Matt

 

[fractalpotato]

I told him that he couldn't have it anymore and I very calmly and deliberately broke it in front of him.

This seems alarming. You destroyed an expensive piece of electronics to assert dominance over a child that got mad at you? This strikes you as healthy?

Matt

 

[pahoben]

I don't believe in threatening consequences that I'm not willing to follow through on. I'm willing to go nuclear when needed to get their attention though. A few years ago we gave my older son my old laptop when I got a new one. He had to sign a contract regarding how he would treat it and use it. We made it clear what the consequences were for breaking the rules and that after x number of times he'd lose it. He proved he couldn't handle it and after he broke the rules in a rather spectacular manner, I told him that he couldn't have it anymore and I very calmly and deliberately broke it in front of him. He knew what the rules were and he had repeatedly shown us disrespect regarding those rules even after we had taken it away when he violated the contract. He had gotten it into his head that it wasn't too big a deal if he broke the rules and lost access to it because he'd always get it back. We needed for him to understand that his actions really did matter and could have lasting consequences that he wouldn't like.

Another time, he somehow figured out my DH's password and bought $60.00 worth of in-app purchases without permission. This was the second time this had happened and we told him the first time that if he did it again that he'd have to pay us back. He didn't believe that 1. he'd get caught and 2. we'd follow through with those consequences because he was a kid and thus didn't have a lot of money. When he got caught, we told him that he owed us $60.00 right then. He told us that he didn't have it so I told him he'd have to sell some of his stuff to pay us back. We went through his room and he couldn't come up with stuff that would realistically net $60 besides his furniture. He was very upset when I told him he'd have to sell $60 worth of his beloved trading cards since it was the only thing he had that would give him enough to pay us back. I made him go online and price them out with DH and figure what he'd have to sell. While they were doing that, I called a card store we frequented, explained the situation and asked for help. They agreed to buy the cards even though they usually didn't buy such small amounts. When we took him to the store DS12 wasn't happy at all and was quite upset when he had to give us the money. He never did that again though.

All of this may sound severe, but we've learned the hard way with DS12 that small punishments don't phase him. Unlike DS8, who usually learns the first time, it's very difficult to levy consequences that actually will convince DS12 to improve the choices he makes. We don't like it, but we're doing what we, unfortunately, must do. I'm naturally a pretty laid back person so this has been tough for me to adapt to.

What am I not willing to do is levy consequences that I haven't warned them about in advance because that's not fair nor am I willing to levy consequences that punish those who haven't done anything wrong. I may sound harsh, but I am equally generous and fair with my rewards when my kids make good choices.

I have fraternal twin daughters that have a similar difference as your sons. One is eager to help and please while the other constantly wants to test and exceed the boundaries. They were making plush toys last week and my wife had the hot glue gun and said she would glue. The tester immediately said no she would do it and grabbed the gun. She suffered some small burns on one finger. We advise the tester to save her from things like this but often she is compelled to find out for herself.

One time we were on a long flight on Singapore Air and the girls were about 4 at the time. The tester was very active and wouldn’t calm down. Then the dreaded visit from a Stewardess stating (as if we didn’t know) that passengers were trying to sleep. I told her if you give me handcuffs and duct tape I can fix it.

She has a tendency to be oppositional. Taking her iPad away for weeks and confining her to her room has a short term impact but her brain is just wired to have a tendency to oppositional behavior. She always has 100% confidence that she knows best. I wouldn’t change a thing about her and so just deal with it and plan for change over a long period. My wife sometimes threatens and doesn’t follow through and I explain to her how bad that is. I always follow through and both the girls know it. If we are in public and they start arguing and fighting they know I will immediately take them home no matter what we miss. But on a plane there is no home to take them to.

Some may be thinking spare the rod and spoil the child but with her the rod will never work. She is a normal sized 7 year old girl and I am a big man. One time I swatted her on the butt and her only response was-It didn’t hurt. . With her best to de escalate emotional situations with a calm response no matter how difficult that may be for me or my wife.

 

[Nick6300]

This seems alarming. You destroyed an expensive piece of electronics to assert dominance over a child that got mad at you? This strikes you as healthy?

Matt

I’m trying to picture how you calmly and deliberately break a laptop. Close your eyes and concentrate, take a slow deep breath, yell out a ‘hiya,’ and then slam it over your knee? . Somehow, using a hammer doesn’t quite fit the calmly and deliberately description.

 

[ronandannette]

I don't believe in threatening consequences that I'm not willing to follow through on. I'm willing to go nuclear when needed to get their attention though. A few years ago we gave my older son my old laptop when I got a new one. He had to sign a contract regarding how he would treat it and use it. We made it clear what the consequences were for breaking the rules and that after x number of times he'd lose it. He proved he couldn't handle it and after he broke the rules in a rather spectacular manner, I told him that he couldn't have it anymore and I very calmly and deliberately broke it in front of him. He knew what the rules were and he had repeatedly shown us disrespect regarding those rules even after we had taken it away when he violated the contract. He had gotten it into his head that it wasn't too big a deal if he broke the rules and lost access to it because he'd always get it back. We needed for him to understand that his actions really did matter and could have lasting consequences that he wouldn't like.

Another time, he somehow figured out my DH's password and bought $60.00 worth of in-app purchases without permission. This was the second time this had happened and we told him the first time that if he did it again that he'd have to pay us back. He didn't believe that 1. he'd get caught and 2. we'd follow through with those consequences because he was a kid and thus didn't have a lot of money. When he got caught, we told him that he owed us $60.00 right then. He told us that he didn't have it so I told him he'd have to sell some of his stuff to pay us back. We went through his room and he couldn't come up with stuff that would realistically net $60 besides his furniture. He was very upset when I told him he'd have to sell $60 worth of his beloved trading cards since it was the only thing he had that would give him enough to pay us back. I made him go online and price them out with DH and figure what he'd have to sell. While they were doing that, I called a card store we frequented, explained the situation and asked for help. They agreed to buy the cards even though they usually didn't buy such small amounts. When we took him to the store DS12 wasn't happy at all and was quite upset when he had to give us the money. He never did that again though.

All of this may sound severe, but we've learned the hard way with DS12 that small punishments don't phase him. Unlike DS8, who usually learns the first time, it's very difficult to levy consequences that actually will convince DS12 to improve the choices he makes. We don't like it, but we're doing what we, unfortunately, must do. I'm naturally a pretty laid back person so this has been tough for me to adapt to.

What am I not willing to do is levy consequences that I haven't warned them about in advance because that's not fair nor am I willing to levy consequences that punish those who haven't done anything wrong. I may sound harsh, but I am equally generous and fair with my rewards when my kids make good choices.

You don't seem like the kind of person that will be daunted by the sarcastic attempts in this thread to denigrate your determined and loving resolve to lead your son, and I hope you won't be. You're doing great. There is such a profound difference in how a naturally-defiant child needs to be parented compared to a compliant one, as was excellently described by @pahoben. Recognizing it alone makes you an above-average parent in my books.

 

[Skywalker]

You don't seem like the kind of person that will be daunted by the sarcastic attempts in this thread to denigrate your determined and loving resolve to lead your son, and I hope you won't be. You're doing great. There is such a profound difference in how a naturally-defiant child needs to be parented compared to a compliant one, as was excellently described by @pahoben. Recognizing it alone makes you an above-average parent in my books.

It seems like its getting rarer and rarer to come across people with the stomach to actually "parent". Good on those of you that do.

 

[Hikergirl]

I'm a punishment should fit the crime kind of parent so it would take a lot more than not picking up after themselves for me to cancel a trip.
I also see a trip as a privilege for the whole family, my punishments were taking their privileges away so it would be something like losing the phone, or the Xbox, or losing whatever they didn't pick up instead of ALL of us being punished for their "crime"

 

[NYCgrrl]

I wouldn't recommend that approach. I guarantee you in 95% of cases it doesn't work as planned. Also, I'd be absolutely considering finances and cancellation fees, I think most people would. Frankly I don't believe half the people that say they would cancel the trip in those circumstances, and I don't think it's ever going to work well.

Matt

With all due respect to your opinion and lacking the rudeness you feel is needed in expressing your thoughts, I somehow doubt you have any experience raising teenagers. They can be odd creatures who turn the drama on and off w/o even knowing why at times. Neither they or their caretakers have a handbook to follow and it's a learning period for all . Should breaking an expensive (or inexpensive) item that the parent paid for keep them from breaking the head of that occasionally bizarre child that they love but now struggle to understand, I say go for it.
Money is replaceable and bringing a child up to be a productive member of society is hard thankless work.
JMO.

PS I can be rude but see little need to be so to the anonymous. Way more fun in person.

 

[fractalpotato]

With all due respect to your opinion and lacking the rudeness you feel is needed in expressing your thoughts, I somehow doubt you have any experience raising teenagers. They can be odd creatures who turn the drama on and off w/o even knowing why at times. Neither they or their caretakers have a handbook to follow and it's a learning period for all . Should breaking an expensive (or inexpensive) item that the parent paid for keep them from breaking the head of that occasionally bizarre child that they love but now struggle to understand, I say go for it.
Money is replaceable and bringing a child up to be a productive member of society is hard thankless work.
JMO.

PS I can be rude but see little need to be so to the anonymous. Way more fun in person.

With all due respect to your opinion and lacking the rudeness you feel is needed in expressing your thoughts, I somehow doubt you have any experience raising teenagers. They can be odd creatures who turn the drama on and off w/o even knowing why at times. Neither they or their caretakers have a handbook to follow and it's a learning period for all . Should breaking an expensive (or inexpensive) item that the parent paid for keep them from breaking the head of that occasionally bizarre child that they love but now struggle to understand, I say go for it.
Money is replaceable and bringing a child up to be a productive member of society is hard thankless work.
JMO.

PS I can be rude but see little need to be so to the anonymous. Way more fun in person.

Except you were rude anonymously, from a high horse full of assumptions. My turn, I find people are often not concerned with money when they don't have to worry about it themselves, I'm guessing that fits you. I worry about money because I am in fact a productive member of society and work for it. My parents were thanked often for that, by myself and my sister and many others. Maybe it's a thankless job when it's done poorly and with violence.

Also if your only two conceivable options are to smash an item or hurt a person, you're definitely part of the problem.

Matt

 

[ronandannette]

Except you were rude anonymously, from a high horse full of assumptions. My turn, I find people are often not concerned with money when they don't have to worry about it themselves, I'm guessing that fits you. I worry about money because I am in fact a productive member of society and work for it. My parents were thanked often for that, by myself and my sister and many others. Maybe it's a thankless job when it's done poorly and with violence.

Also if your only two conceivable options are to smash an item or hurt a person, you're definitely part of the problem.

Matt

Before this veers off into ridiculousness let’s be clear that the PP who disposed of the laptop implied absolutely nothing about wanting to physically harm their child.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Umm no. Kids are messy. I'm not a perfect housekeeper myself. We work full time, have school, activities, etc. Chores are the bottom of my list of priorities.

Vacations are our time away from real life. I would never sacrifice that because my kid has a messy room. Does she lose iPad time? Sure. Small outings on the weekends? Yes. A family vacation? Umm NO.

 

[robinb]

There is such a profound difference in how a naturally-defiant child needs to be parented compared to a compliant one, as was excellently described by @pahoben.

You’re right. My DD was (and in many ways still is) a challenging child. I used to read all the advice here in the DIS about rearing normal complaint children with envy. However...Going ‘nuclear’ on her (cancelling a trip, smashing a laptop, etc) would have served no purpose because I would have needed an even *bigger* weapon the next time.

 

[NYCgrrl]

Except you were rude anonymously, from a high horse full of assumptions. My turn, I find people are often not concerned with money when they don't have to worry about it themselves, I'm guessing that fits you. I worry about money because I am in fact a productive member of society and work for it. My parents were thanked often for that, by myself and my sister and many others. Maybe it's a thankless job when it's done poorly and with violence.

Also if your only two conceivable options are to smash an item or hurt a person, you're definitely part of the problem.

Matt

Additional option: Ignore the improper behavior and hopes it goes away left at where ever it is you vacation.

Everyone has their own house rules and they should be abided by, plain and simple. Should you think it's rude for someone to disagree with you and point out where and how you were rude maybe try the same type of conversation out on your parents or better yet boss.

I get that you are of an age where worrying about finances is a regular occurrence; that's commendable to a certain degree. BTDT and was in that age group when I cancelled a vacation for one of my children. Still I knew I had a job to do and like all responsibilities it wasn't always be fun. It's not about you anymore. It's about the entire family, now and in the future.

No one advocated personal violence whether physical or mental anywhere in this thread that and in my mind the suggestion is over thinking.