European Union will bar travelers from the US (and others). US does not make the cut, too out of control

[bavaria]

Here is one example of how a lack of ability to enter a country, even as a citizen, kept one family apart. Unfortunately most of us could not find the solution he found to see his 90 year old father....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/world/americas/coronavirus-argentina-sailor.html

 

[ronandannette]

Here is one example of how a lack of ability to enter a country, even as a citizen, kept one family apart. Unfortunately most of us could not find the solution he found to see his 90 year old father....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/world/americas/coronavirus-argentina-sailor.html

Closed borders have undoubtedly caused hardship and heartbreak for many individuals. These stories certainly tug on heart-strings but depending on where you live, it's hard to see family separation as anything other than simply more collateral damage of the pandemic.

Here, in many parts of Canada, the elderly in extended care facilities have effectively been incarcerated there. The have been prohibited from seeing family members - absolutely no traffic in-or-out of the facilities for months on end. Patients in hospital (moreso in the early days) died alone because there was an iron-clad policy against visitors, not only for Covid patients but for everyone.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Well, we did not make the cut. The US has to get better.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/americans-to-remain-barred-from-european-travel.html

 

[Searc]

Be sure to note, it is your country of residence, not your nationality that bars you from traveling to the EU. So if you live in the United States, Brazil or Russia, you are barred from traveling to the EU.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/eu-formalizes-reopening-barring-travelers-from-us/ar-BB169MiL

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well, we did not make the cut. The US has to get better.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/americans-to-remain-barred-from-european-travel.html

I really wouldn't read too much into this. Countries should be able to add and remove as they see fit. One of those countries on the list could fall off because they end up having large cases. WE could do the same to the EU should we see fit. I'm personally fine with that. For the U.S. states are starting to remove the NE states that were initially added to quarantine lists and adding other states. BUT that doesn't mean that states can't be re-added later on. This should all remain fluid until the world largely has some sort of better protection for all of their citizens. Right now the only main metric is case load and spread.

 

[bavaria]

Be sure to note, it is your country of residence, not your nationality that bars you from traveling to the EU. So if you live in the United States, Brazil or Russia, you are barred from traveling to the EU.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/eu-formalizes-reopening-barring-travelers-from-us/ar-BB169MiL

Actually, the New York Times news article is very misleading.

Citizens of the EU, along with others, have always been able to and will still be able to enter their country of citizenship. Note as well that is only a recommendation to nations, not legally binding, but it is expected that the EU+Schengen will follow it.

What this does mean however is that an American citizen, currently living in Canada, is able as of tomorrow to travel to the countries in the agreement, while an American citizen, currently living in the US, who is not a long term EU resident, essential, or with an EU family member, cannot travel. The poster who is a cat, and has an Italiian citizen husband, but lives in the US, was able to travel had she wished and I believe that she has also noted that all along.

This has meant all along that people could travel to reunite with family, for instance, which is much more humane than what has occurred in some parts of the world.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/...ctions-for-residents-of-some-third-countries/

For countries where travel restrictions continue to apply, the following categories of people should be exempted from the restrictions:

• EU citizens and their family members
• long-term EU residents and their family members
• travellers with an essential function or need, as listed in the Recommendation.

Schengen associated countries (Iceland, Lichtenstein, Norway, Switzerland) also take part in this recommendation.

 

[bavaria]

Seriously, I hope this was a joke

Certainly I did not take it as a joke, but considering that this thread is regarding the EU, it doesn't even make sense as a statement.

 

[ford family]

I really wouldn't read too much into this. Countries should be able to add and remove as they see fit. One of those countries on the list could fall off because they end up having large cases. WE could do the same to the EU should we see fit. I'm personally fine with that. For the U.S. states are starting to remove the NE states that were initially added to quarantine lists and adding other states. BUT that doesn't mean that states can't be re-added later on. This should all remain fluid until the world largely has some sort of better protection for all of their citizens. Right now the only main metric is case load and spread.

I thought that the US was already excluding all international arrivals.

ford family

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I thought that the US was already excluding all international arrivals.

ford family

The present list includes the Schengen Area. Countries are China, Iran, UK (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland), Republic of Ireland and Brazil.

Some of the exceptions to the prohibition (which isn't the full list) include "foreign diplomats traveling to the United States on A or G visas and certain family members of U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents including; spouses, children (under the age of 21), parents (provided that his/her U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident child is unmarried and under the age of 21), and siblings (provided that both the sibling and the U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident are unmarried and under the age of 21).  There is also an exception for air and sea crew traveling to the United States on C, D or C1/D visas"

As far as I understand it the EU has put the restriction on the U.S, we have not put a restriction on the EU (rather the Schengen area and UK and a few other countries). Our orders overlap many countries that are part of the EU (and much of Europe) for sure though.

With respects to my comment I was more meaning on a generalized level and over time. The EU stated they would review every 2 weeks and update the list of countries if needed. While I don't think any country/governmental entity is making these decisions lightly I would see it as a possibility and frankly expectation that we do a back and forth situation rather than once you're on you stay on once you're off the list you stay off the list.

It's a fluid situation so even if the U.S. gets a better handling of the virus it doesn't mean things can't go south in the future and just because the EU has a better handle on the virus at this point doesn't mean things can't go south with them. So let's say they add the U.S. at a later date for accepted travel they should feel if they need to to remove us. Same if we remove most of Europe but then feel the need to we should re-add them--just like the individual states are doing in the U.S. We're a bit too early to re-add states IMO as it's been about what 3 1/2-4 months but we'll see come fall if things change. Removing countries/governmental entities for sure is a bit more of a logistical task than adding or removing states here in the U.S. where the relationship between countries/governmental entities is potentially much more fragile.

 

[gillep]

I do think you're in a good place having been able to watch all the mistakes made by other states. Hopefully take it at a slower pace and definitely having the mask mandate already in place! I'm hoping having seen what your community has already been through will make people there take it seriously, but my fear is as I continue to see NYers (not all, but many) tout how well they've done, they won't take going forward as seriously; like there will a belief the hard work has already been done. I do think that's part of the problem in CA - we did so well, people didn't take it as seriously as they should have as we started reopening. Also the disjointed approach we had, didn't help. Our Gov did well in the bigger picture and especially when we realize how bad it could have been, but the Bay Area made a pact, closed earlier than the state and reacted much differently than Southern California and I think it reflects in our numbers, even as they rise state wide. I just hope we're not too late now to real it back in.

I am in the Bay Area in Santa Clara County. We were one of the first counties that were hit and we closed early and have moved slower through the opening phases and you can absolutely see that in the numbers. We have patio dining open, and that has felt very safe (especially if you switch dinner time to 4pm to avoid crowds as we have done) but everywhere I see that has opened indoor dining and similar facilities seems to be having issues. I am OK with sticking to the patio for quite a while. Different areas have allowed restaurants to take over some of the street parking for expanded patio dining, which is nice, but there are a few areas where I think they should take it a step further and could easily close a full street (like they do for different festivals) to allow restaurants to be able to serve more people outside with good distance between the tables, this may not be something restaurants want though as they obviously need to invest in outdoor tables and umbrellas and I know margins are tight already, but there are a few places where I think this could work well if there was the interest from local businesses. I was in Los Gatos last weekend eating outside, and a few people were discussing the fact that they were renting a vacation home in the area, that scared me, as you have no idea where these people are coming from as the rest of the state is seeing some alarming trends.

 

[Imzadi]

I do think you're in a good place having been able to watch all the mistakes made by other states. Hopefully take it at a slower pace and definitely having the mask mandate already in place! I'm hoping having seen what your community has already been through will make people there take it seriously, but my fear is as I continue to see NYers (not all, but many) tout how well they've done, they won't take going forward as seriously; like there will a belief the hard work has already been done. I do think that's part of the problem in CA - we did so well, people didn't take it as seriously as they should have as we started reopening. Also the disjointed approach we had, didn't help. Our Gov did well in the bigger picture and especially when we realize how bad it could have been, but the Bay Area made a pact, closed earlier than the state and reacted much differently than Southern California and I think it reflects in our numbers, even as they rise state wide. I just hope we're not too late now to real it back in.

We have patio dining open, and that has felt very safe (especially if you switch dinner time to 4pm to avoid crowds as we have done) but everywhere I see that has opened indoor dining and similar facilities seems to be having issues. I am OK with sticking to the patio for quite a while. Different areas have allowed restaurants to take over some of the street parking for expanded patio dining, which is nice, but there are a few areas where I think they should take it a step further and could easily close a full street (like they do for different festivals) to allow restaurants to be able to serve more people outside with good distance between the tables, this may not be something restaurants want though as they obviously need to invest in outdoor tables and umbrellas and I know margins are tight already, but there are a few places where I think this could work well if there was the interest from local businesses.

In NYC, we are still set to go to Phase 3 next week, but most likely with NO indoor restaurant or bar seating! Whew! NJ already instituted a continued indefinite "pause" today on indoor restaurant seating. NY is set to announce one way or the other tomorrow and any alternate solutions they'll hopefully come up with instead. Since NYC restaurants & bars have no parking lots where the owners could just pull out their tables & chairs and turn into patio seating, they've had a much harder time. Right now, restaurants are allowed to use the parallel parking curbside lane in front of their restaurants to turn into their patio space.

The Mayor has been thinking of deepening that space by closing down the next closest traffic lane on each side of the street, to turn them into restaurant areas. (There are restaurants on the other side of the street too.) There would only be one narrow, gated lane of traffic down the middle, as an emergency corridor for firetrucks, ambulances, FedEx and supply trucks, and such, to get through as needed. This plan, unfortunately, is extremely weather dependent.

Today, the NY, NJ, & CT governors extended the tri-state travel quarantine from 8 states to 16 states. The NY Gov. expressed deep concern over people traveling to NYC for a visit and infecting people. That happened a couple weeks ago when a person from FL came up to attend a friend's graduation. He had COVID and infected 13 other people. The contact tracers were able to tamp down that fire.

But, the whole thing started on the east coast, back in March, when a person who had COVID, attended a funeral and a birthday party the same weekend, infected dozens of others, who in turn, because they would not voluntarily quarantine, infected more. Within days NY went from 2 infected people to hundreds. At the end of 3 weeks, we had close to 21,000 people infected, just in this state. The world knows what happened after that. We must NOT have another spike again that takes too long to control.

 

[Imzadi]

Our Gov did well in the bigger picture and especially when we realize how bad it could have been, but the Bay Area made a pact, closed earlier than the state and reacted much differently than Southern California and I think it reflects in our numbers, even as they rise state wide. I just hope we're not too late now to real it back in.

I am in the Bay Area in Santa Clara County. We were one of the first counties that were hit and we closed early and have moved slower through the opening phases and you can absolutely see that in the numbers.

I wouldn't worry too much about different parts of the state doing different things at different times. The Bay Area people know it's area best and how people are in that area. NY state is more than just NYC. There are some regions that are so rural that there are more cows per capita than there are people. So, our Gov. set up metrics and different regions re-opened according to hitting those metrics. If one looks at a map of the state according to Phases of re-opening, which are different colors, it looks like a patchwork quilt. It's been successful here, so far. If he has to close down an area, he can still do that according to region, while not affecting the phases of the other regions.

 

[aggiedog]

I'm glad they're using science to gauge what is safe and when to move forward. I surely wish we had. I'm also glad to see that you have contact tracing working.

The extended outdoor seating reminds me a lot of Europe. I'd love to see more of that here, but on the flip side, it's 97 degrees at 8:00pm. It's kind of no fun to sit outside right now.

 

[bavaria]

I'm glad they're using science to gauge what is safe and when to move forward. I surely wish we had. I'm also glad to see that you have contact tracing working.

The extended outdoor seating reminds me a lot of Europe. I'd love to see more of that here, but on the flip side, it's 97 degrees at 8:00pm. It's kind of no fun to sit outside right now.

Ahhhh, I've spent part of summers in 'the frying pan of Europe' where temperatures reach 40 degrees. Most people don't reemerge from their houses until 2200hrs, for dinner, or children play time. Patios have misters.

In other parts of the world, like in much of Asia, we eat outside with very high heat and humidity. In Greece, we eat outside in the heat (and in southern Europe bars and restaurants are mainly outside) Bars in Bairro Alto in Lisbon are still packed at 0300hrs in a normal year, and I've 'closed' a cafe at 0500hrs there (cafe meaning just a kiosk on the street, with chairs and tables)

Usually, in southern Europe there is not a dependence on air conditioning, but rather outdoor spaces and later dining etc than in America. Probably that is making a difference now too.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Well, I'm not canceling our trip for later this year. Who knows what will happen in five moths. I spent at lot of time planning and booking our itinerary ( I am my own amateur travel agent). I will give it a minute and see what happens. I can always rebook for the spring or summer.

 

[bavaria]

As noted, these were only recommendations from the EU. Germany has agreed to allow citizens of 14 countries to enter, but 3 require reciprocity. Prior to March, Germans and Japanese had the most 'flexible' passports in the world ie we required visas to the fewest countries globally and had far more flexibility to travel. Japan implemented visa requirements for Germans earlier this year, then banned us along with most of the world, and require a quarantine. That is still in place, so Germany has said that they will only permit Japanese to enter if Japan returns our reciprocal agreement (which I think is fair, and the three starred ones are where there is a lot of business travel occurring in both directions)
1. AUSTRALIA
2. GEORGIA
3. JAPAN *
4. CANADA
5. MONTENEGRO
6. NEW ZEALAND
7. SOUTH KOREA *
8. THAILAND
9. TUNISIA
10. URUGUAY
11. CHINA *

https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/p...hraenkung.html

Italy is requiring 14 day quarantine even from the 'safe' countries on the EU recommended list:
https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/20...0295/?ref=RHPPTP-BH-I260528538-C12-P7-S1.8-T1