Economy Woes

[bavaria]

I don't want to start a fight, but think I'm a bit offended by your tone of "superiority" for the European style of traveling. I've NEVER heard someone from Europe, here in the States, complain because ice cubes were readily available here.

I think you will find that the majority of Americans make their own travel arrangements, and the folks that take these kinds of tours are in the minority. But they post here because they like what ABD offers.

Perhaps you should start a separate Forum for independent travel.

Sayhello

I'm not fighting, nor am I trying to be superior, even though for many years here I have had to read about how stupid/dirty/smelly etc foreigners are from the mostly American readership. I have provided a lot of specific details to people here over the years, including on the ABD boards as people asked about currency, outlets, etc.

Why would I complain that you have ice in your drinks in America? I just ask for it without. That really makes no sense as to why you are somehow insulted. I was pointing out something which ABD does which I don't happen to agree with.

This thread was about the cost of ABD during the current economy, and I was pointing out that there are other options, and that some people may find that they can plan and enjoy an independent trip. There is at least one thread about that already on the ABD board and we are helping that person to make plans.

My post earlier today was simply to remind people that they had options. If you would like to have an argument you will need to find someone else with whom to argue.

 

[sayhello]

This thread was about the cost of ABD during the current economy, and I was pointing out that there are other options, and that some people may find that they can plan and enjoy an independent trip. There is at least one thread about that already on the ABD board and we are helping that person to make plans.

This thread is about people who have already decided they want to take an ABD vacation, discussing how they feel about taking those ABDs (expensive vacations) during this bad time in the economy, and their philosophies about it. Rather than hijack this thread to promote your own business, I just wish you'd started your own thread, and left this one alone.

Sayhello

 

[eva]

I do appreciate all the tidbits of information about Europe that everyone imparts here, this is a board about ABD. As a matter of fact, this is a website that is pretty much dedicated to all types of Disney information and Disney related travel. Everyone knows that you can do any trip on our own for less money. That is pretty much a no brainer. I lived in Germany for a number of years and traveled both on my own and with groups. I prefer individual travel when I am traveling the countryside. But in large cities I prefer a tour.

PS - I don't ever remember being offered ice on my ABD trip.

 

[crashbb]

This thread is about people who have already decided they want to take an ABD vacation, discussing how they feel about taking those ABDs (expensive vacations) during this bad time in the economy, and their philosophies about it. Rather than hijack this thread to promote your own business, I just wish you'd started your own thread, and left this one alone.

Sayhello

WAIT A MINUTE. Bavaria has no *business*. She is a frequent and very helpful poster who happens to be mainly based in Europe and travel frequently. Thus, she is in a position to provide advice for those traveling (both in Europe and elsewhere).

There were a couple of other posters in this thread who said that they were re-thinking their ABD vacation or suggesting that other people might have to re-think their vacation - Bavaria was not the one who brought this up. She was suggesting ways to still have a European vacation even if the ABD price tag was now too high.

How is it a discussion of philosophies if the only one allowed is "ABD is so good it doesn't matter how expensive it is and life is too short not to go"?

And Eva - given the post that you quoted, if you are going to say that Bavaria "belittled ABD and Americans", there is no need to be coy and hide behind "a certain poster".

If the ABD style of travel works best for you, that's great and don't worry about the opinions of others. However, in a thread that discussed rethinking an ABD trip, I see no reason to jump on a poster who provided an alternative suggestion. Most of the "belittling" (which I don't really see anyway), occurred after she was called to task for her initial post and felt the need to defend/further explain herself. It seems rather rude to call someone to task and then accuse them of highjacking a thread if they come back to respond.

 

[sayhello]

Most of the "belittling" (which I don't really see anyway), occurred after she was called to task for her initial post and felt the need to defend/further explain herself. It seems rather rude to call someone to task and then accuse them of highjacking a thread if they come back to respond.

I did *NOT* call bavaria to task in my original response to her. I just added SEVERAL more reasons why an ABD held allure, where she had stated there were only 2 reasons to do so. SHE was the one who came back and said

none of those things appeal to me and in fact repel me and put me off doing a group tour;

and

I avoid editorializing in respect for the fact that most of you are American, but where someone highlighted part of an article as to how ABD carts around ice cubes in Europe to meet the American taste that to me detracts from the real experience.

which I found offensive and superior (along with her implications that we Americans only take these kinds of vacations because we don't know any better), and said so.

Sayhello

 

[bavaria]

sayhello, I have to say that I tend to agree with you. While I do appreciate tidbits of information about Europe that many impart here, this is a board about ABD. As a matter of fact, this is a website that is pretty much dedicated to all types of Disney information and Disney related travel. Everyone knows that you can do any trip on our own for less money. That is pretty much a no brainer. We do not have to be constantly reminded of it. I am beginning to feel that the people mentioning this are some type of travel agent and are financially benefiting from their posts on this board. I lived in Germany for a number of years and traveled both on my own and with groups. I prefer individual travel when I am traveling the countryside. But in large cities I prefer a tour. I do feel that a certain poster has belittled ABD and Americans who travel to Europe somehow making it seem that their preferred way to travel is the best way to go. And that Europeans have something against Americans and these large tour groups, like ABD. I'm not just referring to this thread, but many that I have read over the past year. I was beginning to wonder if Europe had changed since I had last been there. Thank goodness it hasn't in that area. On our tour we encountered the friendliest people and no one seemed the least put out by us being on a tour or being American at all.

PS - I don't ever remember being offered ice on my ABD trip.

eva, frankly I am sorry that I ever offered you advice for your trip. You may not have seen the many posts over the years calling us names, and saying very hateful things to us. There is a very small group of us who are citizens of European countries who have endured much here. Many posts and even thread were deleted over the years, yet we have tried to remain respectful when responding and defending ourselves.

For some reason many are very sensitive when they feel that someone has said anything remotely negative about America, yet feel that they can make nasty comments about our food, our clothes, our people, our culture. That is not right.

I only responded to threads here because people PMd me and asked me to. I made specific replies about voltage, electronics, appropriate clothing, currency, exchange rates etc. I have always tried to be respectful towards different cultures, even while reading posts in those same threads which were frankly very rude about my own.

Last weekend there was even a thread started asking if cleanliness is exclusive to Americans. That is just one example of what we read here on a very regular basis.

It may be time to step back and look at things from a different perspective.

 

[Pakey]

I'm sorry to see this thread lose it's wheels here and just wanted to say that Bavaria has been very helpful to me in previous threads helping me decide on many things and I hope to see that continue. That's why we are here, hoping to get some expert advice and Bavaria can certainly do that.

I also think there's a valuable bit of advice in there regarding a way to still be able to travel without perhaps having to pay the higher prices of AbD; a compromise of sorts. Two years before I took our AbD to London/Paris, we did 2 weeks in Italy on our own. There were many benefits to that trip over the AbD trip. We definitely felt more immersed in the culture. We saw the same grand things that AbD's Viva Italia tour offers and many things that were not offered. Plus having unlimited food options (yes, even without ice) was amazing.

Now my health/strength is not as good and I don't feel I'm quite up to extensive trips on my own and AbD offers a wonderful alternative. However, I loved traveling on my own and think that offering that as a less expensive alternative is a good suggestion made by Bavaria and should not be misconstrued as an elitist comment.

 

[eva]

Delete

 

[bavaria]

Eva, I am not a travel agent, have never been one, have no desire to be one, nor would I ever tout a business here. I have helped at least a few dozen people plan much of their vacations here via PM and email simply because they came to me asking for advice as they know that I travel all over the world. I am busy enough in my career but am always happy to take the time to help people who ask for advice. Several of those people were taking ABD trips, or decided not to take the trip but to tour on their own.

I dispute your assertation that I have made any demeaning remarks towards Americans; I simply pointed out the article which lauds Disney for bringing ice on the European trips as an example of how one may not always have a true local experience. That was in response to a post someone else directed at me, as crashbb pointed out.

I will no longer post on the ABD board if that is what you wish - it is clear from several posts here. I had hoped that I could share some of the information that posters have requested from me via PM but apparently not everyone wants to learn from a local. I'm perfectly fine with that, and wish you all a nice vacation.

 

[eva]

Delete

 

[SLK1]

So, am I to assume that I WILL have ice during my Viva Italia trip in June?

 

[redzinner]

So, am I to assume that I WILL have ice during my Viva Italia trip in June?

Only if you ask for it. There was plenty of cold bottled water available for us (Disney provided, not hotel). No one schlepped ice around for us but then we didn't expect it.

 

[eva]

So, am I to assume that I WILL have ice during my Viva Italia trip in June?

We didn't on our Viva Italia tour. They did have a bit of ice in the cooler on the bus for bottled water. They try to fill it up at the auto stops on the highway. But even then they did run out from time to time and we had to drink warm water sometimes. Not a big deal.

 

[SLK1]

So, am I to assume that I WILL have ice during my Viva Italia trip in June?

Just FYI, I posted this based on the conversation in the thread and I was totally kidding...

 

[sayhello]

Just FYI, I posted this based on the conversation in the thread and I was totally kidding...

So much for an attempt to lighten things up! Thanks anyways for trying!

Sayhello

 

[SLK1]

So much for an attempt to lighten things up! Thanks anyways for trying!

Sayhello

Yes, I tried...but alas I failed. Maybe I should have put the "smiley" icon in my original post!!!

It's o.k., I'm still going to Italy!!! Yea!!!!

 

[kimberh]

I was lurking on this Thread. It is ashame that it has taken this turn. Bavaria thanks for the information on the Euro. We are leaving for Italy on Nov.1st for a cruise. I was getting ready to call and see what the conversion rate was. As for the Thread Topic... I was seriously thinking of taking the ABD trip to Ireland, I just can't see paying that much money right now. I have lost hugely on the stock market, just as some of you have posted. I am holding tight right now. We are self employed. I am worried that we have a tough year ahead of us. I really would like to go to Ireland by 2010 though. This has always been my dream.

My Ancestors came over in the Potato Famine. I need to go over and just see it for myself.

If anyone has any cheaper information about Ireland, I would sure love to hear about it.
Thanks

 

[disneytraveler]

I am still planning on my abd tour to Germany next summer. I will do though is cut down or alternate my vacations. The stocks are not effecting me as i have investing mostly in goverment safe securities at work. However, my vacations would be usually be touring Europe with ABD and then going to Disney also. Two vacations in the same year is getting to be alot for me moneywise. So next year its ABD , then year after Disney.