DVC tax system error

This was the result of a back and forth with Disney that spanned several months starting late last year. I was informed back in March that this credit would be issued to the membership, but that Disney needed time to dot all their i's and cross all their t's. They also wanted time to message this properly; the same request received for the privately shared plans to address the 2022 point chart issues.

I respected that request to allow Disney time to share with the membership what was ultimately decided and how it was decided, but sadly, the emails sent out (which ironically, I have yet to receive myself) was worded as such that I feel it necessary to address my continued misgivings with how seriously Disney is taking its obligation to act on the membership's behalf now that Disney has finalized the messaging.

First and foremost, the small dollar amounts that people are being refunded should be secondary to the fact that these refunds had to happen at all. This is the bigger story that is being buried and downplayed.

Disney's timeshare management company is supposed to be our first line of defense. They have the fiduciary obligation to act in our best interest as outlined by Florida State law. But the reality is that while they are legal, separate entities/divisions, there is significant overlap between the Management Company and the Developer. This is problematic because the singular objective of the developer is to drive profits. This is far more serious a conflict of interest than most of us would want to acknowledge, because doing so is a bit of buzzkill when we're trying to enjoy the "Club" feels.

But we've seen it happen over and over that Disney's timeshare division will do something that they need to backpedal on because of the simple fact that they got caught doing it by someone else; not because they had some reflective moment of clarity and that they saw the error in their ways.

Let’s be clear about this. This was not an “error.” An error would’ve been caught by CMs when the first resale owners reached out about not getting the tax credits back in 2014. An error would’ve been identified by the accountants who manages the Association’s financials and prepare the annual statements. An error would’ve caught by the “independent” auditors who review those financial statements, PricewaterhouseCoopers (interestingly, the same folks who gave an early start to the career of Jim Lewis and his Hawaiian adventures in accounting).

When I called Disney in 2017 about my first resale contract and the tax overpayment on the contract I was told: “You do not get the money since you didn’t pay it.” So I asked if the previous owner got the money. “Previous owner doesn’t get the money because they no longer have a real estate interest.” I was new to timeshares and assumed this to be true and moved on. In 2020, I called and was told the EXACT same thing again, almost verbatim.

This was not an error. This was policy that was disseminated through the ranks over several years.

It was a policy that was decided by someone at a higher pay grade than the frontline cast members I spoke to who were just parroting what the training told them to say.

This is just the latest incident that gives me pause about the role of the Management Company. This is also why I take issue when some members on these boards decide to defend Disney in their actions time after time after time. Some will use euphemisms like "sloppy" to describe the 2022 point charts, ignoring the manufactured seasonal situation around a shifting holiday. Take a look at the 2019 thread that @Zavandor started on suing Disney for the 2020 point charts, long-time members insisted that those complaining don’t know better; that Disney has the real data; that 1BRs may in fact be higher in demand than 2BRs. And it is often repeated that Disney would never knowingly do something they could be sued for, or that they have lawyers and accountants who look over all of these things.

At every step, Disney is afforded the benefit of the doubt. That if they make a “mistake” that those who are responsible will be held accountable.

At one point historically, this may have been true of Disney, and more specifically the 1992-2011 version of the Disney timeshare. But Disney itself is a different company today, and the timeshare product they sell 30 years into its inception is a different product. The timeshare product is still a valuable one for a lot of families, mine included, but the faith and trust some members may have been willing to put in Disney to do the right thing may be misguided today, as the company has clearly evolved. As members, we should evolve with it.
Yes you can tell this is being downplayed when in the letter received it states:
"This error impacted a small number of Members who purchased through the third-party resales market in the first year of purchase from 2014 to 2019. " What is Disney's definition of Small Number of Members?


This also makes me wonder if more members need to bring this issue up with mgmt again. Yes they ended up fixing the issue, but question 1) how many members were affected, question 2) how much dollars were affected as well with this, question 3) why did this take so long to come to someone's attention?
 
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Kudos to bing showei for pursuing this issue with DVC. I doubt if anyone would be receiving any credits if it hadn't been for his work.

DVCNews has been posting articles about DVC property taxes for several years, including estimating the amount of over- and underestimates per point of the tax amounts by resort for the DVC resorts located at Walt Disney World. Last year, they all were entitled to credits. But in prior years there were some resorts that had their property taxes underestimated and a debit was charged to following year.

Here are some DVCNews articles that estimated the amount of the tax credits, or debits, due DVC owners:

2020 taxes;
2018 taxes;
2017 taxes;
2016 taxes.

Keep in mind the numbers you see in these articles were preliminary estimates; the actual amounts could vary slightly.

FYI: The millage rates for the taxing authorities within whose jurisdiction the DVC resorts reside are usually finalized in September and the final property tax bills are normally released by Orange County, FL in October of every year. The next DVCNews article about the DVC property taxes will be published around then.
 
Well done bing showei for fighting this.
This is the third severe misgiving discovered by owners in three years.
It is time the DVCMC admits there are problems within the organisation and takes drastic corrective action.
And it is time to get the regulators involved.
 
Wow, the things I learn on the DISboards! Thanks to this thread, I discovered my credits for my applicable contracts! And a huge thank you to those who fight for truth and integrity on behalf of those of us who might not pay close attention…. 😳👍🏼👍🏼
 
We received a $75 credit!
Thanks Bing Showei for watching out for all of us!
Also, a big thanks to all the members on this board that do deep dives into the workings of all things DVC and then keeps DVCMC honest by calling them out on their bad behavior!
We appreciate all the time you invest!
It's a shame that DVCMC chooses to not do what they should!
 
Kudos to bing showei for pursuing this issue with DVC. I doubt if anyone would be receiving any credits if it hadn't been for his work.
The troubling thing is that when I called in November 2020, the CM I spoke to expressly stated, without my prompting, that not only would new resale members not be entitled to the tax overpayment refund, but that new deed holders would not be credited for closure-related adjustment on dues either.

It's important to note that planned refunds on closure-effected dues at this point was not public information. There was no official statement from Disney around how dues would be handled (only speculation on user forums), but clearly CMs were already provided with early guidance on how to address resale members who would eventually ask about this refund.

The position then was that paid dues on newly acquired third-party resale contracts would not be credited back to the new title holder. And like the way taxes were handled, previous owners would likely not be refunded either. Dues overpayments would likely also be retained by Disney.

I suspect upon reviewing the mishandling of the tax situation, Legal recognized the dubious position assumed on both issues and reversed course accordingly.
 
Love it that people on a popular Facebook group think this refund was because of Disney's "honesty". They don't know the bit of what happened, and I'm too exasperated to even mention it to them...
 
Thanks Bing Showei! I got refunded $60. I even got refunded on a gratuitous transfer that added my kids. So it went from my wife and me to my wife, our DDs and me, and they kept the credit. I agree with Bing Showei, it is hard to believe this was a "mistake", but rather a way to increase profits. It is disappointing that we the members need to protect or demand our own interests are protected, from an organization that is legally bound to look out for our interests. This is the 3rd or 4th case of this in the last 3 years.
 
Isn't this some the police should investigate? It's not an IT system error, but a policy established to keep as profit money that should have been given back to members. Shouldn't we start using the word "fraud"?
 
First and foremost, the small dollar amounts that people are being refunded should be secondary to the fact that these refunds had to happen at all. This is the bigger story that is being buried and downplayed.
I am not a resale purchaser, so I was not impacted. However, I think the communication sent by DVC is insulting to all members.
For DVC to send out a communication that said "We recently discovered...", and "This error impacted a small number of members...", when in fact the error had to be pointed out by one or more DVC members, and based on the data linked in post #44 by @wdrl it impacted the majority of resale purchasers over a 6 year period, that communication actually is beyond insulting.
 
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