DVC Rental

[Brian Noble]

And having to offer a discount to compete against rentals is the very definition of forgoing profit.

 

[DaveNan]

I suspect the reservations for rent at the higher end are for low point rooms (AKV value, BLT std, RIV tower studios and BWV std). The rental price is set by discounting the nightly rate for cash rooms. So, they are basically renting the rooms for $350-400 per night (less than the 500+ cash rate) independent of the number of points needed. So if the room takes 14 points that means 25-28.57 per point. But if that room took 17 points, the would be 20.58 - 23.52 per point. I fear part of what is driving the low point rooms getting even more difficult to book is the new trend of renting existing reservations for a fixed amount per night rather than renting points at a fixed rate to book a room. Renters can increase their income.

 

[blizzard]

Hmm. Spitballing ideas here but…
What if Disney decided to define commercial rentals as any rental that goes through a commercial broker?
You want to rent yourself (facebook, DIS, TUG, etc) that’s fine, but as soon as you are ”hiring” someone to rent your points, then it’s commercial. I “think” Disney could do this - would they, and how would they implement it (phased in, hard date, ?) are the pertinent questions.

 

[TCRAIG]

NOT that I’m suggesting this AT ALL…but other major TS charge a fee if booking in someone else’s name…on top of any other booking fees…
Personally, I think this is stinks and it’s one of the reasons why I maintain that DVC is a step up from Marriot and Hilton…

 

[drusba]

NOT that I’m suggesting this AT ALL…but other major TS charge a fee if booking in someone else’s name…on top of any other booking fees…
Personally, I think this is stinks and it’s one of the reasons why I maintain that DVC is a step up from Marriot and Hilton…

That cannot occur with DVC. Legally, DVC cannot charge any fees for members making reservations unless the POS specifically retains the right to do so. In all the DVC POS's, that right is retained only for trade-outs to non-DVC Resorts.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Of course they are. That's what undercutting means. People can get their rentals for less than going through CRO. IF Disney can clamp down on rentals (which maybe they can't), then they don't need to offer discounts to recapture those rooms - more money for Disney.

Most people that rent points in my experience,

Would not be staying on property, if they didn’t rent points, or would be stay in the value resorts.

Is that undercutting Disney, NO

Dvc built and sold DVC expecting to have those room filled every night.

They are already part of the balance sheet.

Not under cutting Disney at all….

 

[drusba]

Hmm. Spitballing ideas here but…
What if Disney decided to define commercial rentals as any rental that goes through a commercial broker?
You want to rent yourself (facebook, DIS, TUG, etc) that’s fine, but as soon as you are ”hiring” someone to rent your points, then it’s commercial. I “think” Disney could do this - would they, and how would they implement it (phased in, hard date, ?) are the pertinent questions.

The commercial purpose rule in the POS does not state it applies to a member doing a single rental. It applies if the member engages "in a pattern of rental activity" from which one can conclude the activity shows a "commercial enterprise or practice." Thus, a general rule that would bar any use of a broker is likely not allowed. Of note also is that the term "commercial enterprise" that appears in the definition is actually a legal term that has long appeared in many statutes (and lawyers drafted the POS terms). Its generally accepted legal meaning is a person or entity that engages in for-profit activity as part of an ongoing business. It is a term that would generally exclude DVC members doing rentals unless it is for many repeated rentals for profit, rather than just members trying to recover maintenance fees, use up some excess banked points, or finding a renter for reservations the member intended to use but cannot.

 

[crisi]

Most people that rent points in my experience,

Would not be staying on property, if they didn’t rent points, or would be stay in the value resorts.

Is that undercutting Disney, NO

Dvc built and sold DVC expecting to have those room filled every night.

They are already part of the balance sheet.

Not under cutting Disney at all….

In my experience, that isn't true. And they are still undercutting Disney even if they would stay in a value resort - any money Disney leaves on the table in a room not occupied that someone is not paying something for is money Disney is out. If rooms are left unoccupied because people are renting points, that's undercutting Disney. Disney has lots of levers to pull to discourage you from staying offsite and encourage you to stay onsite - and at any time can pull even more levels. They have no levers right now to keep you from renting points.

 

[Johtull12]

And in the meantime, folks can get while the getting is good. Who knows? The party might never end. I'd want to be one of the first out the door if it does though, because if it does there are going to be a lot of sellers in a short amount of time. Reminds me of that scene from Margin Call: "Be first, be smarter, or cheat."

Like the three 1000 point contracts for sale 2 VGF AND 1 CCV plus another 840 at VGF listed recently across various sites. Maybe they are?

 

[Brian Noble]

Maybe. I also smiled at the several completely stripped 500 point contracts (as in: no '22, '23, or '24 points). Yes, the buyer gets a credit for the '24 dues, but they are also trying to catch a falling knife.

 

[CrystalClear82]

All of the previous comments here, are the exact conversation I had with my DH this morning.. We're going back and forth about purchasing, and have been renting points from various sites....
I'd be more than happy to rent directly from someone, as I'm sure it would work out monetarily better for the both of us, but it makes me nervous.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Maybe. I also smiled at the several completely stripped 500 point contracts (as in: no '22, '23, or '24 points). Yes, the buyer gets a credit for the '24 dues, but they are also trying to catch a falling knife.

I don’t get why anyone would buy a contract like that. You won’t get any use out of it for at least two years. It seems crazy given the non-stripped contracts that are available.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

I don’t get why anyone would buy a contract like that. You won’t get any use out of it for at least two years. It seems crazy given the non-stripped contracts that are available.

I've been looking at Feb contracts with no '22 or '23 points. What if I could get one for $20 - $25 less than the lowest price per point reported on the ROFR thread. Wouldn't that be a good deal if I wasn't planning on using the points until 2025?

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I've been looking at Feb contracts with no '22 or '23 points. What if I could get one for $20 - $25 less than the lowest price per point reported on the ROFR thread. Wouldn't that be a good deal if I wasn't planning on using the points until 2025?

It’s not that it’s a bad deal, it’s just that I buy DVC contracts to use them. Buying a contact you cant use for 2-3 years just seems crazy to me.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

It’s not that it’s a bad deal, it’s just that I buy DVC contracts to use them. Buying a contact you cant use for 2-3 years just seems crazy to me.

I understand. However, I've got my vacation plans set for this year and next so I thought since ROFR is virtually non-existent right now I could pick up a contract at a resort I've been wanting to own at and not have to deal with selling the banked and current points. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Brian Noble]

I've been looking at Feb contracts with no '22 or '23 points. What if I could get one for $20 - $25 less than the lowest price per point reported on the ROFR thread. Wouldn't that be a good deal if I wasn't planning on using the points until 2025?

Yes. The problem is that the market doesn't really work that way. Stripped contracts are over-valued vs. rental values. Loaded contracts, in contrast, are under-valued.

 

[Matty B13]

Chances are that fully loaded contracts are being sold by people who need to sell and haven't been to WDW in a year or two and don't know anything about renting their points. That's why they are discounted so much.

 

[Bmramaut]

I have rented from DVC members for years and will say I am SHOCKED to hear of that mark up coming from this listing sites. I get that they need to make money too but it’s honestly portrayed as the owners asking for that much (please no hate, that’s an outsider looking in). As a renter I have only scrolled through many confirmed reservations I have scoffed at. The savings from just purchasing the trip from Disney is too minimal.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

To rent 3 years worth of points would cost 54 - 60 dollars per point …

are these stripped contracts reduce by that amount over a fully loaded one ?

if not I would argue they are over priced

 

[connorlevismom]

I have rented from DVC members for years and will say I am SHOCKED to hear of that mark up coming from this listing sites. I get that they need to make money too but it’s honestly portrayed as the owners asking for that much (please no hate, that’s an outsider looking in). As a renter I have only scrolled through many confirmed reservations I have scoffed at. The savings from just purchasing the trip from Disney is too minimal.

This shocks me too As someone who uses these places to rent my points, I have seen the prices I am being paid take a complete nosedive. We used to get $16 per point. Then it went to $18. Now I am getting emails that they want to give me $12 per point! I rented my points out for the year already for $16 and was happy with that. No way would I do $12 unless I was absolutely desperate.