DVC must stop rentals.....

[xdan0920]

I am 6 months out from my trip, and I can't get a full week in a studio anywhere. Disney has to stop the rental market, at least until the backlog of points clears. Members using their own points should have some availability at this point.

 

[nightwing12]

at 6 months everyone can book anywhere, and studios are going to be the first to go typically. you should book at 11 months, or barring that at least at 7 months, but even then for popular times its going to be more difficult.

 

[xdan0920]

at 6 months everyone can book anywhere, and studios are going to be the first to go typically. you should book at 11 months, or barring that at least at 7 months, but even then for popular times its going to be more difficult.

I know how DVC works. It shouldn't work this way. Get it?

 

[nightwing12]

I mean the way it works was explicitly spelled out in the docs I signed to become a member. DVC will never stop renting because the biggest renter is disney themselves. Also I just checked for 6 months out and found a bunch of studios for a week long stay. My suggestion still stands however, plan early or expect disappointment.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Rentals are far less of an issue for studios than the sale of points attached to cabins and bungalows, and owners of off-site points who purchased for near exclusive on-property use.

Disney cannot legally stop rentals and they have always been in your terms and conditions.

Disney didn't have to imbalance the system by building bungalows and cabins. And if they managed to legally stop rentals tomorrow, you still wouldn't find studios at 6 months.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

DVC doesn't need to stop rentals.

DVC needs to raise the points cost of Studios, raise the points cost of the Fall seasons, and raise the points cost of Standard View units.

They need to lower the points cost of 1BR and 2BR, lower the points cost of Summer, and lower the points of Premium View units.

Expensive nights are too expensive and cheap nights are too cheap, creating a severe demand imbalance.

 

[jo-jo]

I don't understand how stopping renting would make a difference. Unless one assumes with no rentals, points will just be lost.

As auroraborealis said......the cabins, etc......I can book a week in a studio or a night in a bungalow.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Rentals are far less of an issue for studios than the sale of points attached to cabins and bungalows, and owners of off-site points who purchased for near exclusive on-property use.

Aulani owners staying at WDW wouldn't be a problem if some WDW owners would go to Aulani once in awhile. Maybe the new Hawaiian Airlines direct route from MCO to HNL will help.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I am 6 months out from my trip, and I can't get a full week in a studio anywhere. Disney has to stop the rental market, at least until the backlog of points clears. Members using their own points should have some availability at this point.

Interesting point. Just as a matter of clarification, isn't the availability stress being caused by owners using their points? It really doesn't matter who occupies the space, the owner is still using their points.

 

[Chuck S]

DVC doesn't need to stop rentals.

DVC needs to raise the points cost of Studios, raise the points cost of the Fall seasons, and raise the points cost of Standard View units.

They need to lower the points cost of 1BR and 2BR, lower the points cost of Summer, and lower the points of Premium View units.

Expensive nights are too expensive and cheap nights are too cheap, creating a severe demand imbalance.

And that varies from resort to resort, Some resorts are fairly well balanced, IMO, like OKW. Others, do have high points units and season that will throw a wrench into the works. Then you've got the the 50th anniversary upping demand system wide, and a lot of pent-up points from COVID. I usually don't stay in studios, but I was a little surprised when, last month, I decided to try for a studio to burn some points in early December at OKW, that it wasn't available. But I did secure a studio for the last week of January. Right now, you have to remain flexible on your plans and book as early as possible.

 

[Brian Noble]

I am 6 months out from my trip, and I can't get a full week in a studio anywhere. Disney has to stop the rental market, at least until the backlog of points clears. Members using their own points should have some availability at this point.

Depending on exactly when you are going, you could probably stitch together a split stay in OKW/SSR with only one move, then waitlist one or the other to put them together with reasonable success.

But IMO the problem isn't rentals per se, vs. too many points chasing too few studios as a result of (a) the backlog you mentioned, (b) the fact that studios are under-pointed in the system relative to demand, and (c) that you are looking at one of the highest-demand periods for DVC, system-wide. Even in the Before Times, November studios at SSR or OKW would have been hard to come by somewhere between six and five months out based on availability tracked by former DISers. Studios at the others would have been long gone by six. Add the pandemic backlog, and a scarcity at six months even at SSR/OKW is not surprising.

The symptoms of a "toxic" rental market are a little bit different: the speculative booking of very high-value rooms and offering them as existing reservations for rent. Those are on the increase, but no where near what one sees in some other systems where the economics of rentals are more favorable.

There are other systems that have taken steps to reduce (the appearance of) renting. Wyndham is probably the most aggressive, in that they limit the number of "pure" guest reservations an owner can make at the most popular resorts/times of year. (That limit doesn't apply if the owner is also traveling.) However, DVC has relatively few "mega-renters" who own large caches of points purely as a rental business vs. most other systems, because the cost basis is too high to make it work*. I suspect most rentals are instead coming from owners who might rent once or twice per year, and there's no obvious policy for curbing that without doing a lot of collateral damage.

The only way to forbid renting is to completely eliminate the ability to send a guest, and I suspect almost everyone would agree that is too drastic a step. For example, simply refusing to allow guests would mean that e.g. families without all family members on the deed couldn't travel without the owner present. For example, it's not entirely uncommon for parents to send their adult kids on a honeymoon trip, etc. Once you allow guests of any form, renting at collective scale is inevitable, and there isn't much in the way of low-hanging fruit of very large point owners to go after to curb it.

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*: There is a healthy set of folks who buy, strip, and resell DVC contracts, renting out the stripped points. The 50% borrowing limit curtailed that a little bit, but not entirely. If I recall, there is still an exception to the one-transfer-a-year rule for accounts owned by the same person, so there is still a way to strip contracts fully. Wyndham had a few people with a similar business model, and they "corrected" it by limiting borrowing to reservations made 90 days or less prior to check-in. The other way of curbing it would be to require folks to pre-pay dues on borrowed points, and that would reduce the value of stripping in a way that probably would not fully be recouped when selling the stripped contract.

 

[DduzDis]

I know how DVC works. It shouldn't work this way. Get it?

I am not sure you do. Search any 'Is DVC for me' type thread and planning trips at least 7 months in advance (and preferably 11 months at your home resort) to get what you want is almost always a point raised.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

the fact that studios are under-pointed in the system relative to demand

The nefarious version of this theory is that studios are deliberately under-pointed relative to demand as a sales tactic. "Oooooh look, you can get TWO WHOLE WEEKS in a Boardwalk Standard View Studio in September with that 150 point VGF contract!"

I think I've read that Disney isn't just allowed to balance demand, but that they're actually obligated to do so.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Fwiw we are trying to rent cabins in January over marathon weekend and there is no availability when we want to stay there (and the booking window isn’t even open yet so these are all CCV owners). Clearly someone is booking the cabins!

 

[lowlight]

Depending on exactly when you are going, you could probably stitch together a split stay in OKW/SSR with only one move, then waitlist one or the other to put them together with reasonable success.

But IMO the problem isn't rentals per se, vs. too many points chasing too few studios as a result of (a) the backlog you mentioned, (b) the fact that studios are under-pointed in the system relative to demand, and (c) that you are looking at one of the highest-demand periods for DVC, system-wide. Even in the Before Times, November studios at SSR or OKW would have been hard to come by somewhere between six and five months out based on availability tracked by former DISers. Studios at the others would have been long gone by six. Add the pandemic backlog, and a scarcity at six months even at SSR/OKW is not surprising.

The symptoms of a "toxic" rental market are a little bit different: the speculative booking of very high-value rooms and offering them as existing reservations for rent. Those are on the increase, but no where near what one sees in some other systems where the economics of rentals are more favorable.

There are other systems that have taken steps to reduce (the appearance of) renting. Wyndham is probably the most aggressive, in that they limit the number of "pure" guest reservations an owner can make at the most popular resorts/times of year. (That limit doesn't apply if the owner is also traveling.) However, DVC has relatively few "mega-renters" who own large caches of points purely as a rental business vs. most other systems, because the cost basis is too high to make it work*. I suspect most rentals are instead coming from owners who might rent once or twice per year, and there's no obvious policy for curbing that without doing a lot of collateral damage.

The only way to forbid renting is to completely eliminate the ability to send a guest, and I suspect almost everyone would agree that is too drastic a step. For example, simply refusing to allow guests would mean that e.g. families without all family members on the deed couldn't travel without the owner present. For example, it's not entirely uncommon for parents to send their adult kids on a honeymoon trip, etc. Once you allow guests of any form, renting at collective scale is inevitable, and there isn't much in the way of low-hanging fruit of very large point owners to go after to curb it.

-------
*: There is a healthy set of folks who buy, strip, and resell DVC contracts, renting out the stripped points. The 50% borrowing limit curtailed that a little bit, but not entirely. If I recall, there is still an exception to the one-transfer-a-year rule for accounts owned by the same person, so there is still a way to strip contracts fully. Wyndham had a few people with a similar business model, and they "corrected" it by limiting borrowing to reservations made 90 days or less prior to check-in. The other way of curbing it would be to require folks to pre-pay dues on borrowed points, and that would reduce the value of stripping in a way that probably would not fully be recouped when selling the stripped contract.

This right here is a great explanation. And on some other sites, the number of owners booking desired confirmed reservations has grown rapidly. One guy was renting week 49, week 52, Easter, spring break, and a few others that I didn’t check but were probably peak times. He was clearly doing it as a business, but as Brian stated, fixing it would likely hurt owners who aren’t abusing the system. Under 7 months is always going to be tough, especially now. Also, as the buy in price rises, people can afford less points and are pushed to studios and standard views go like hotcakes.

 

[Sandisw]

The nefarious version of this theory is that studios are deliberately under-pointed relative to demand as a sales tactic. "Oooooh look, you can get TWO WHOLE WEEKS in a Boardwalk Standard View Studio in September with that 150 point VGF contract!"

I think I've read that Disney isn't just allowed to balance demand, but that they're actually obligated to do so.

True, but there are some who believe that they can't shift points across the entire resort, but there are some restrictions to how units were defined. They definitely can't sell more points than assigned to units, but for point usage? IMO, jury still out on that one.

So, it may not be as simple as just relocating across the entire resort as it would seem.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I think right now the problem is more overhang from Covid than people renting their points. I would suggest an if you can't beat them, join them, approach, rent out your own points and use the rental income to pay for a hotel room.

 

[Sandisw]

Sorry but as an owner, one of the big benefits of the program was to be able to use my points not only for me, but for family and friends, and the potential renter. Renters can not book those rooms, only an owner can. If an owner decides to send someone else to stay in their place, than not sure why that should not be allowed as everyone bought their points and pay their MF's.

I am sorry you are having difficultly but 6 months out for one of the busiest DVC times, especially given more points in the system, is going to be difficult.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

True, but there are some who believe that they can't shift points across the entire resort, but there are some restrictions to how units were defined. They definitely can't sell more points than assigned to units, but for point usage? IMO, jury still out on that one.

So, it may not be as simple as just relocating across the entire resort as it would seem.

They could at least get the seasons right (allowing for year-to-year Easter weirdness and whatnot), even if they didn't rebalance anything between or across units. They insist on pricing Summer like DVC members are cash guests, but DVC demand doesn't follow cash demand.

 

[Chuck S]

Another way to look at it is DVC has allowed too many small contracts over the years. A simplified example of this: say Early December is a very popular travel time, and the resort has mostly 150 point contracts, you've basically doubled demand over a scenario where the same resort would have mostly 300 point contracts. . Basically twice as many owners vying for the same reservation. And that doesn't even account for the people who buy fixed weeks for studios during popular travel times.