DVC Club Level and Home Resort Survey

[Paul Stupin]

13 years into the MVC trust program and it seems that point owners are the ones that complain about being able to make reservations and deeded weeks owners are still quite happy. Some weeks owners have a few complaints but overall owning deeded weeks at the resort you want to go to is still the best option and will probably always be the best option. Trust programs allow the developer to package up underperforming resorts and sell them as something new, shiny and great, when the reality is much different.

For the most part, I have no issues with my 11 month booking windows for the resorts I own, especially since we don’t travel during the super busy times. I don’t think the deeded weeks are a good option for us. The flexibility of the system is what makes it attractive, not being locked into a particular set of travel dates for all eternity. And, yes, I’m aware that deeded week owners can use the points at other times, but they’re paying extra for dates in which we have zero interest.

So I quite disagree with deeded weeks “always being the best option.“ And, yes, I’m familiar with the motivation behind trust programs, but it doesn’t seem beneficial in any way, and it might very well prove to be in some way detrimental, to deeded owners.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

For the most part, I have no issues with my 11 month booking windows for the resorts I own, especially since we don’t travel during the super busy times. I don’t think the deeded weeks are a good option for us. The flexibility of the system is what makes it attractive, not being locked into a particular set of travel dates for all eternity. And, yes, I’m aware that deeded week owners can use the points at other times, but they’re paying extra for dates in which we have zero interest.

So I quite disagree with deeded weeks “always being the best option.“ And, yes, I’m familiar with the motivation behind trust programs, but it doesn’t seem beneficial in any way, and it might very well prove to be in some way detrimental, to deeded owners.

Yea, we're with you. The deeded weeks would never work for us - we lose flexibility that way. It was that flexibility that was different from other timeshares and got us into DVC in the first place. And with the exception of the occasional time we would like to get AKL CL rooms for a stay, and they're very tough even at 11 months - we get everything we want at 11 months - for the days/weeks we want them. It's worked extremely well for us for 30+ years..... And if the deeded weeks owners are happy with their situation - that's good news! Just not something we were ever interested in.

 

[dioxide45]

For the most part, I have no issues with my 11 month booking windows for the resorts I own, especially since we don’t travel during the super busy times. I don’t think the deeded weeks are a good option for us. The flexibility of the system is what makes it attractive, not being locked into a particular set of travel dates for all eternity. And, yes, I’m aware that deeded week owners can use the points at other times, but they’re paying extra for dates in which we have zero interest.

So I quite disagree with deeded weeks “always being the best option.“ And, yes, I’m familiar with the motivation behind trust programs, but it doesn’t seem beneficial in any way, and it might very well prove to be in some way detrimental, to deeded owners.

When I was referring to deeded weeks, it was in reference to other timeshare systems that are weeks based. The comparable on the DVC side would be points deeded at a specific resort vs trust points that are not deeded to a specific resort.

 

[ziravan]

So, is this a shell game to make buyers believe they have 11 month booking at multiple resorts, when in reality the popular resort(s) in the trust will be difficult to book and most trust members will only find availability at the less favored resorts?

I fear a version with AUL, SSR being included.

They aren’t going to want bad word of mouth.

My guess is, while they may cheat it around the edges, their goal will be mainly prime resorts with the percentage of SSRs and AULs more or less in line with their estimate of SAPs needed for 7 month booking.

They could even tweak their program in other ways like that. For example, if they kept an extra 10% of their trust points at the lesser desired resorts - over and above the points they sell beneficiary interests in - then DVC now has its own slush fund to scour the 7 month window for prime resorts to push to CRO. Sort of like breakage points on steroids. But. If DVC is the holder at the 7 month window, that’s completely fair.

In any case, the 7 month window is gonna get much more competitive meaning “buy where you want to stay” is still the best advice.

 

[Cfabar1]

A good sign that this may not be imminent- Riviera just declared a lot more inventory into their association.

I found that encouraging as someone who is not enthusiastic about the type of change Disney is referring to.

 

[Sandisw]

A good sign that this may not be imminent- Riviera just declared a lot more inventory into their association.

I found that encouraging as someone who is not enthusiastic about the type of change Disney is referring to.

I saw and I think it’s a good sign too…now, hoping the one GV that was declared might get my waitlist filled for one night in January.

 

[Cfabar1]

I saw and I think it’s a good sign too…now, hoping the one GV that was declared might get my waitlist filled for one night in January.

Yes, I looked to see if it opened any availability for our May trip in Standard View, just to see how it would price out and if we wanted to move out of VGF...

When I checked, it didn't open anything up, but maybe it isn't a direct "instant" availability.

 

[dioxide45]

Perhaps they declared it to add it to the trust. I still think that they have to declare it because the units are still part of the HOA, even if they go straight to the trust. That said, I suspect they need these units to continue to sell points between now and when they formally create the trust. The trust still isn't recorded in Orange County (unless they record it somewhere else).

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Be very careful if you're just looking for "Disney" when searching for the trust filing.

 

[MarkNC2Disney]

I saw and I think it’s a good sign too…now, hoping the one GV that was declared might get my waitlist filled for one night in January.

I’m good with giving the East Wing to the Trust We’ll keep the West.

 

[dioxide45]

Be very careful if you're just looking for "Disney" when searching for the trust filing.

I've been searching for "Palmetto". It could however be filed under something different.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I’m good with giving the East Wing to the Trust We’ll keep the West.

Aren’t all the good/Epcot standard view rooms in the east wing though? And closer to the skyliner? I want to keep whatever that side is!

 

[Sandisw]

Isn’t all the good/Epcot standard view rooms in the east wing though? And closer to the skyliner? I want to keep whatever that side is!

The good thing is that no matter what part of any uni the trust is a partial or full owner, all units have to be open to deeded owners unless they adjust things for future declarations.

Plus even now, we can stay in any resort room.. we .aren’t tied to just declared ones so I think we are all safe!!

 

[MarkNC2Disney]

Aren’t all the good/Epcot standard view rooms in the east wing though? And closer to the skyliner? I want to keep whatever that side is!

No the West wing is closer to Skyliner, but I was being a bit tongue in cheek

 

[zavandor]

Other timeshares are perennial, DVC resorts have a 50 years lease. How can DVC manage the expirations? Can they sell points for 50 years even if only the latest resort expires in 50 years?

This got me wondering: instead of generic trust points, maybe they'll sell resort-linked points. If you buy CFW trust points, you'll get 50 years, if you buy RIV trust points, you'll get fewer.
Resort-linked points will give you access to the Palmetto Trading Company (or reformed BVTC), at 11 months for all resorts that have points in the trust. At 7 months to all resorts remaining inventory.
But if you resell, points will have restrictions. If someone buys your CFW-linked points they'll book only CFW. Nothing at 7 months, like current Riviera and VDH.
A resale buyer will be able to upgrade their points paying the convenient fee of $100 pp for full access to all trust points.
This is like conjuring money out of thin air, full profit.
It will also depress resale prices making it easier to ROFR points to resell.

I realize this is not really a trust system like the others. It's just a DVC2 with no home resort priority, nastier rules for resale and fewer guarantees for owners. They seem committed to the resale restrictions, so it seems unlikely they'll give them up easily.
Or maybe they will just negate the possibility of reselling a contract. They will authorize only gratuitous transfers to family members. You'll only be allowed to give it back to Disney. This is actually in the trust documents that are online, so that might be the easiest answer.

 

[CarolynFH]

Other timeshares are perennial, DVC resorts have a 50 years lease. How can DVC manage the expirations? Can they sell points for 50 years even if only the latest resort expires in 50 years?

This got me wondering: instead of generic trust points, maybe they'll sell resort-linked points. If you buy CFW trust points, you'll get 50 years, if you buy RIV trust points, you'll get fewer.
Resort-linked points will give you access to the Palmetto Trading Company (or reformed BVTC), at 11 months for all resorts that have points in the trust. At 7 months to all resorts remaining inventory.
But if you resell, points will have restrictions. If someone buys your CFW-linked points they'll book only CFW. Nothing at 7 months, like current Riviera and VDH.
A resale buyer will be able to upgrade their points paying the convenient fee of $100 pp for full access to all trust points.
This is like conjuring money out of thin air, full profit.
It will also depress resale prices making it easier to ROFR points to resell.

I realize this is not really a trust system like the others. It's just a DVC2 with no home resort priority, nastier rules for resale and fewer guarantees for owners. They seem committed to the resale restrictions, so it seems unlikely they'll give them up easily.
Or maybe they will just negate the possibility of reselling a contract. They will authorize only gratuitous transfers to family members. You'll only be allowed to give it back to Disney. This is actually in the trust documents that are online, so that might be the easiest answer.

Yep, the devil is in the details!

 

[sethschroeder]

This is a good way for Disney to charge a premium on SSR, OKW, AUL. You know they are going to make up a majority of the points in a system like this.

Also Disney can't remove rooms from the existing DVC inventory so are you now essentially saying that Disney would be renting out their points essentially on first come first serve?

This seems like yet another instance where DVC members would need to complain, outline why its likely breaking rules of the DVC contracts, and then Disney would roll it back and not do anything.

I can't imagine Disney could pull inventory to provide only to this other system when point usage is meant to be first come first serve.

 

[PolyRob]

I’m good with giving the East Wing to the Trust We’ll keep the West.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

View attachment 818732

Man, I love Disney people

 

[Cfabar1]

Just doing some reading, and found this interesting article from the past:

https://www.aspentimes.com/news/suit-hyatt-grand-aspen-timeshares-dropped-in-value/

Has a lot of ramifications for potential DVC changes, and why they'd want to only put new resorts in the trust.

Fractional units that were part of the Portfolio Club, in turn, were marketed as part of a point-based program that “has enabled cheaper access to the Hyatt Grand Aspen and has undermined the exclusivity of interval ownership for access which Aspen owners had been promised and had paid for,” Ferguson said.

The points-based program was created without the consent of the other owners of the Grand Aspen Hyatt, the suit alleges. The points-based program also allows users to spend one or two nights at the Hyatt, though the fractionals must be used in half- and full-week blocks, the suit says.

Reiser said, “We think these guys created a new club and they’re trying to raid the assets (of the Hyatt in Aspen) to jump start these different clubs, and they’re doing it at the expense of the owners.”