Do we really need instant election returns? (About voting, not politics.)

Please, let's not kill the thread with a digression into the merits of individuals being tried by the court of public opinion.

If you have a suggestion as to how we can improve the efficacy of the voting process for all Americans, by all means, let's hear it.

No worries. :)

One thing I think is important is advocating for increased polling locations and better access to them.
 
No worries. :)

One thing I think is important is advocating for increased polling locations and better access to them.

Why are there even polling places at all? Vote by mail is so much easier. We got rid of the in person voting in Washington State years ago. Oregon is the same way.
 
Why are there even polling places at all? Vote by mail is so much easier. We got rid of the in person voting in Washington State years ago. Oregon is the same way.

I will say that I tried it for the first time this year and absolutely loved it. I even had time to research the obscure judge's races because I could read their names, research them, and then make my decision. In a voting booth, I would just have to hope that I was remembering correctly.

I would guess part of the reason that it is not more widespread is that it is pricy. I saw that the return cost of my envelope was $1.21 - prepaid by the government. Multiply that by a few million voters and you suddenly have a budget deficit.
 


I will say that I tried it for the first time this year and absolutely loved it. I even had time to research the obscure judge's races because I could read their names, research them, and then make my decision. In a voting booth, I would just have to hope that I was remembering correctly.

I would guess part of the reason that it is not more widespread is that it is pricy. I saw that the return cost of my envelope was $1.21 - prepaid by the government. Multiply that by a few million voters and you suddenly have a budget deficit.

It cost $1.2m in Washington State last election. They are debating whether to continue to pay the postage. In years past they had drop boxes where you could deposit your ballots if you didn't want to pay the postage.
 


You've undercut your own argument here. You said, "Of course, we both voted only once, but I could have voted twice ..." What do you mean, "of course"? In the same sentence you are implying that the temptation of that double-listing is huge, but note that you resisted it. You know why? Because it isn't a temptation to you, just as it isn't to probably 99.9% of the population. People generally are honest when getting away with being dishonest requires real effort, and that is the case when your name appears on multiple voter rolls because the bureaucracy fell behind. To take advantage of that double-listing you would first have had to have known about it, then made the effort to go to both polling places and stand in line twice. Definitely a hassle, and for what? What good does one extra vote do? The VAST majority of people would only go to those lengths if they got paid to do it, which is why you cannot remove a copy of your filled-out ballot from the polling place. Any political operator who was paying the recently-moved or recently-bereaved to double-vote would have to be doing it on faith, because they cannot produce proof that they voted as they were paid to. Professional political dirty-tricksters are not big on acts of faith; they prefer to go with a sure thing.

As I said before, simple logic should tell you that organizing enough double-voters or dead-voters to actually swing an election is way more work than necessary, when the option of a much more effective strategy also takes less effort and permits a greater degree of control: paying an insider to make sure that real ballots somehow don't get counted.

Also, ONCE AGAIN, I'm not saying that working under the table or driving without a license is a good thing; only that it is possible and not uncommon among marginalized segments of society. I brought it up in answer to questions about how people function without ID, NOT as a suggestion of a good way to avoid needing one.

One thing I've noticed in this thread that troubles me (besides people thinking that I actually approve of working under the table or driving without a license), is the frequent repetition of rumors. Rumors like the one about NC student IDs are planted on purpose to convince people not to show up at the polls. Think of the reputation of most DMV offices, and how much fun they are to visit? If you've never been to one, but had heard all the jokes and complaints, would you assume that the folks there would be friendly and helpful to you?

You ask how it could be that people don't know that they need an ID, or how to get one? There's your answer: they believe the rumors that they hear that tell them that it is impossible, or a waste of time and money to go to the DMV if you don't drive. My freshman college-student son was told once by a mail clerk that he would need a court order to apply for a passport without a parent's signature, because he was under 21. Totally untrue -- the guy was just blowing smoke because he had no clue and didn't want to bother finding someone to ask. DS took the path of least-resistance and believed him until I told him otherwise. He worked at the Post Office, where they process passports -- why not believe him?

Look, try this: ask a dozen random people you encounter in the next month if it's possible to get a photo ID from the state if you don't drive. I'll bet you any money that at least half of them will either tell you no, or tell you that they have no idea how you would go about doing that. It truly is not common knowledge in most places.

Maybe we should just adopt the standard practice from Africa, and provide purple stamp pads at all the polling sites. You have to roll your thumb on the pad after you get a ballot, and it is very difficult to wash off that ink; it takes days of regular washing to fade it off. The idea is to show that you have already voted and and prevent duplicate voting. Perhaps that would satisfy those who are convinced that duplicate-voting is common.[/QUOTE]
And then they could also save $ on the “I voted” stickers.:rotfl2:
 
But who will check your ID if you vote by mail?

They mail the ballots to your house. They check signatures. It would be very difficult to conduct voter fraud on a large enough scale to swing the election with vote by mail.

The most important thing is to get every registered voter to actually vote. I think it was 70% to 80% of registered voters actually sent back their ballots last election in Washington State.

They had trouble finding enough people to staff the poling places so they were forced to go to vote by mail. No one was showing up to work the polls even when they were paying far above minimum wage.
 
which meant that he should demand an investigation, putting him on the hotseat to prove his innocence, rather than place the burden on the challenger to make a valid case first. (Alas, the investigating agency had already done background checks numerous times in the past which were clean as a whistle)
...and how did that end up going? Without any official investigation, it was not hard to refute a negative.
 
They mail the ballots to your house. They check signatures. It would be very difficult to conduct voter fraud on a large enough scale to swing the election with vote by mail.

The most important thing is to get every registered voter to actually vote. I think it was 70% to 80% of registered voters actually sent back their ballots last election in Washington State.

They had trouble finding enough people to staff the poling places so they were forced to go to vote by mail. No one was showing up to work the polls even when they were paying far above minimum wage.
I understand. But couldn’t ppl steal other ppl’s ballots out the mail & vote multiple times??
 
But who will check your ID if you vote by mail?

Signature matching, which creates its own issues. In some of the tight races this year, the signature matching is what’s causing delays. There’s also controversy over who gets to determine if it’s a match, or if party observers should be able to protest.
 
But who will check your ID if you vote by mail?

When you apply for a mail-in ballot application in my state you must provide your current and valid DL# or your non-DL#. The number was also used when you registered to vote.

If you don't have that then you have to provide on of the following photo IDs:

• Driver’s license issued by Kansas or another state
• Nondriver’s ID card issued by Kansas or another state
• U.S. passport
• Concealed carry of handgun license issued by Kansas or another state
• Employee badge or ID document issued by a government office
• U.S. military ID
• Student ID card issued by an accredited Kansas postsecondary educational institution
• Public assistance ID card issued by a government office
• ID card issued by an Indian tribe

It's basically the same requirements that are in person though I think there might one or two more things acceptable in person can't remember exactly.
 
I understand. But couldn’t ppl steal other ppl’s ballots out the mail & vote multiple times??

More concerning, how do we know that those people are actually voting for themselves, for what they want, without interference? I go to a polling place, I am getting myself into a voting booth, I am filling out my ballot and no one can watch me or know how I am filling it out. That isn't necessarily true of a mail-in ballot.
 
More concerning, how do we know that those people are actually voting for themselves, for what they want, without interference? I go to a polling place, I am getting myself into a voting booth, I am filling out my ballot and no one can watch me or know how I am filling it out. That isn't necessarily true of a mail-in ballot.
I fail to see how voting in person absolves someone of not being influenced by someone else.

My step-father-in-law is going to vote the same way as his wife (my mother-in-law) whether that's in person or mail-in ballot (and FTR they always vote in person). My best friend votes the same as her husband whether that's in person or mail-in ballot. My husband and I on average will vote at least majority the same because we share the same values in general but we don't always vote for the same person (or measure). For instance we didn't this election for every position. We often talk though about candidates and if measures are up on the ballot and we do our own independent research as well.

IDK chances are people who are influenced by someone they know will be that way whether it's in a just enough-partitioned voting machine or whether it's filling out a mail-in ballot at their kitchen table.

Mail-in ballots, absentee ballots and advanced voting all work well together to give people more options to vote. I def. wouldn't advocate for the removal of one.
 
I fail to see how voting in person absolves someone of not being influenced by someone else.

My step-father-in-law is going to vote the same way as his wife (my mother-in-law) whether that's in person or mail-in ballot (and FTR they always vote in person). My best friend votes the same as her husband whether that's in person or mail-in ballot. My husband and I on average will vote at least majority the same because we share the same values in general but we don't always vote for the same person (or measure). For instance we didn't this election for every position. We often talk though about candidates and if measures are up on the ballot and we do our own independent research as well.

IDK chances are people who are influenced by someone they know will be that way whether it's in a just enough-partitioned voting machine or whether it's filling out a mail-in ballot at their kitchen table.

Mail-in ballots, absentee ballots and advanced voting all work well together to give people more options to vote. I def. wouldn't advocate for the removal of one.

Because, even if person A is demanding that person B vote a certain way, B can do whatever he/she wants to do in the privacy of the voting booth. That option is removed by mail-in ballots. (I'm not arguing agaist them at all, just pointing out a potential flaw in the process.)
 
Because, even if person A is demanding that person B vote a certain way, B can do whatever he/she wants to do in the privacy of the voting booth. That option is removed by mail-in ballots. (I'm not arguing agaist them at all, just pointing out a potential flaw in the process.)
I knew what the other person was talking about though my point was people who are that influenced are likely in large part going to be that way regardless of in-person or mail-in ballot.

Maybe they would never feel comfortable filling out a ballot outside of a polling location but so many people do. The poster also doesn't live in a state that allows mail-in ballots for open reasons. In my County alone there were 137,000 requests for this November election for mail-in ballots with over 417,000 registered voters which accounts for nearly a 1/3 of the registered voters in the County wanting mail-in ballots.

My friend had a baby a few weeks before the election. She did a mail-in ballot which was much appreciated especially as she has Lyme disease and the last few years have been the only time in over 10 years she hasn't been in and out of a hospital due to complications of Lyme disease for months on end.

The poster's own experience regarding being late to work because they had to vote on election day per their state's rule (from the I better vote tomorrow thread) and their boss being lenient for being late to work but another person's boss not being lenient for being late to work a mail-in ballot would be a great way (especially if getting any time off for work if their state allowed advanced voting in person was not ideal either) to have mail-in ballots as another option in their state (as well as advanced in person voting).

I don't want all mail-in ballots myself but I love that I have that option. As is, I can early vote in person and I love that option as well. I would absolutely hate only being able to vote on election day. I avoid the polling locations like the plague on election day (and the last few days left in advanced voting if I can help it). More options not less options is better IMO especially considering the topics of both of those threads which is access and ease of things to improve one's ability to vote should they choose to.
 
I would assume there would be an uproar if a lot of people went to vote and found out someone had already voted in their name. Before you solve a problem, you need to determine there IS a problem (not just a potential).

I remember a number of years ago there were concerns about not leaving GPS's in cars when you attended functions/ran errands/etc. The thought process was someone could break into a car, grab the GPS, then use it's "home" setting to go rob the house, knowing the person was away. There's a couple problems though...
1) The title for the car will generally have the name, and it probably wouldn't be as obvious that it's gone.
2) The theoretical thief only knows ONE person supposedly living at that address is gone. They don't know the house is empty.

This sounds like the same thing. Sure, you could have a massive number of people (enough to influence an election) get enough registered voters information and go precinct to precinct to vote for their candidate. BUT, you don't know that the person they stole the identity from wasn't going to vote for their desired candidate anyway. So it could be a wash.

I agree, on paper, it sounds good to require ID to vote. But when you look at the practicality does it?

I get what you’re saying here about determining whether there is problem or just a potential problem. But, we take extraordinary steps to solve potential problems every single day.

So, speaking in general terms, I believe there’s a second step here - is it an actual issue, or just a potential issue? AND if the latter, how high is the potential, and what would the ramifications be if steps aren’t taken to minimize the potential?
 

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