Do I need a lawyer?

[seashoreCM]

I can not believe some of the comments here. The OP followed the agreement even when it did not fit with his wishes while his ex is attempting to violate their custody agreement in a sneaky manner over the same issue.

Arthur- I second the advice to hire a mediator and work with the mother outside of court if possible. It will look better if you do have to take it in front of a judge for resolution. Good Luck!

Or you can correspond with your lawyer who in turn can correspond with her and/or her lawyer and come up with an amendment to the original custody agreement (as opposed to a new custody agreement).

You could explore a mediator if he would cost less than a lawyer. It appears as if you may need a lawyer to draw up the needed document.

(not to be parrotted without advice from and appropriate revision by a real lawyer) "We agree that the custody agreement remains in full force and effect however either parent with permission from the other on each occasion may remove the child to remain overnight outside the district of XXX which permission shall not be unreasonably refused. A parent having to be absent from the district may release the child into the custody of the other parent for one or more nights with no revision to future custody schedules."

Transportation problems would be grounds for refusing permisison.

 

[soonerfan2008]

Or you can correspond with your lawyer who in turn can correspond with her and/or her lawyer and come up with an amendment to the original custody agreement (as opposed to a new custody agreement).

You could explore a mediator if he would cost less than a lawyer. It appears as if you may need a lawyer to draw up the needed document.

(not to be parrotted without advice from and appropriate revision by a real lawyer) "We agree that the custody agreement remains in full force and effect however either parent with permission from the other on each occasion may remove the child to remain overnight outside the district of XXX which permission shall not be unreasonably refused. A parent having to be absent from the district may release the child into the custody of the other parent for one or more nights with no revision to future custody schedules."

Transportation problems would be grounds for refusing permisison.

That sounds well and good until the EXW decides not to grant permission. An agreement which hinges upon "either parent with permission" and "not unreasonably refused" is destined for failure when you already have one party who feels the Order does not apply to him or her.

OP, I feel your pain, and I do not think your comment was that big a deal. As a stepparent (a group which is typically crucified on these boards), I get the pleasure of dealing with an ex that sounds similar to yours. If we ask for the tiniest change in schedule, we are met with a resounding, "no," but she does not follow even the most basic parts of the Order. We continue to follow the letter of the Order, and the court continually ignores her behavior, albeit she gets little scoldings here and there.

Do not back down, do not allow her to alter the agreement unless by mutual consent (and get it SPECIFICALLY spelled out and filed with court) and do not underestimate the default power she will get by moving. Example-- "If you want to see her, you need to drive out here and get her. I don't care what the Order says." Also, be very careful of any changes as she will absolutely learn quickly that she can make you stick to the agreement, while knowing it doesn't *really* apply to her.

Good luck!

 

[maddiesmom0116]

I have to apologize, I have not read the entire thread, so I am not sure if you posted where you live or not, so I am not sure of the state or local code on this. However, knowing judges or in this case most likely magistrates they would not look at you favorably for utilizing their court docket for 10 miles unless it impacts the child negatively in some way, such as creating instability in their life. Why would you want to waste your money and possibly the good will of the courts over 10 miles. Pick your battles, something more important may rear it's head later and you do not want the case file to show minor conflicts that should have been handled within the family.

Good Luck

 

[Irin997]

I think the absolute first thing you need to do is confirm the move with the mother. There is no sense in doing anything else until you know for sure what the mother's plans are for the move and your son.

 

[seashoreCM]

That sounds well and good until the EXW decides not to grant permission. An agreement which hinges upon "either parent with permission" and "not unreasonably refused" is destined for failure when you already have one party who feels the Order does not apply to him or her. !

Only your permission is needed again every other week for exDW to take DS out of the district for the usual custody changeover. Her permission would only be needed if you wanted to take DS to Walt Disney World or something like that. If she gave permission in advance she does not have the right to change her mind later.

Or if you can finagle it, the amendment would specify that she has to get permission from you but say nothing about when or if you have to get permission form her.

A lot should be accomplishable without going before the judge/magistrate or going on the docket. You want it set up so that if she violates the agreement enough to cause you difficulty then by that time she will have committed multiple violations.

 

[LilyWDW]

I have to apologize, I have not read the entire thread, so I am not sure if you posted where you live or not, so I am not sure of the state or local code on this. However, knowing judges or in this case most likely magistrates they would not look at you favorably for utilizing their court docket for 10 miles unless it impacts the child negatively in some way, such as creating instability in their life. Why would you want to waste your money and possibly the good will of the courts over 10 miles. Pick your battles, something more important may rear it's head later and you do not want the case file to show minor conflicts that should have been handled within the family.

Good Luck

You should read the thread.

The actual, LEGAL decree that the parents are supposed to follow states that neither parent can move 10 or more miles away from the area. The OP just wants the ex to follow the court documents and not get away to breaking the LEGAL agreement. The ex has actually in the past refused the OP the chance to move the same distance while citing the court documents. She should be held to the same thing. Instead, she wants to simply break the agreement.

If the OP allows this to simply happen, then who the heck knows what the ex will do next time. By NOT trying to enforced the agreement, the OP will be agreeing to the ex's "right" to break it.

People should really read a thread...

 

[Thumper_Man]

Arthur-
I have worked in the court system as a Guardian Ad Litem and also done much mediation work with families, here is my suggestion:

First, you are working off the comments of a child. Children can mis hear things and also misinterpret things. I would first ask that you get clarification as to what is REALLY taking place, the facts...I know you mentioned that you cannot speak to your ex in person, so I would suggest a certified letter to her (make copies of everything for yourself) ask her to clear up the matter. Don't be accusatory, just state that you would like to know the facts of the matter: is she moving? Where? When? if so, what are her intentions for school/ visitiation drop offs and pickups, etc. Again, don't be accusatory, simply ask her to make everything clear. I would ask on the letter that she please reply to you within 15 business days.

Second, DON'T BE ACCUSATORY!!! I know I have mentioned this a lot, but you really don't want to put someone on the defense when you really don't KNOW what the truth is. (yes, you have heard it from a third party, but you need the FACTS from the source) Just be very plain and simple and ask for clarification.

Second (again)- if you do not get a response within 15 business days, then I would suggest a mediator before a lawyer. Judges sincerely appreciate the use of mediators (it clears some room on their dockets) and it also shows that the participants that use mediators really are looking for an amicable solution in the best interest of the child while still maing everyone happy.

Third, if you get a reply and she is in fact moving and it will impact the school your child attends, or she does plan to ammend the custody agreement by moving or changing pick up and drop off locations etc, then I would suggest getting a mediator involved if you want to save the cost of a lawyer. A mediator will help everyone come to an agreement and also make sure everything is legal and put into writing.

Forth, I cannot stress enough how important it is to get everything in writing. No matter how small of a detail you might think something is at the time, it may have huge impacts on the future. I am glad to hear that you have many documents saved. I certainly find those items useful.

Also, you are correct, If you don't say anything about this move (if it is in fact true), then yes, it is seen by the courts as a mutual compliance to the custody agreement. Since you wanted to move years ago and she said no to you moving, she in fact strengthened the custody agreement by enforcing
her rights in that original agreement.

There is a lot more information to gather before you make any drastic phone calls or decisions about what to do. After you get the facts, then you can weigh your options and take action.

I wish you luck, I applaud any parent (regardless of gender) that is willing to step up and provide for their child.

Ok. I have read the whole thread and I agree mostly with this. Only thing is I would have my lawyer draw up and send her the letters (since she does not talk to the op). He can ask the necessary questions to get confirmation of said change in residency. It was mentioned by the OP that her and her husband bought the house. No mention if they are living in it or plan on living in it. I'm guessing they're planning on living in it or else the OP wouldn't have started this thread.

If the OP's ex confirms she has/hasn't changed her place of residency: then his lawyer can legally investigate if she indeed did/did not change her place of residency. If she hasn't changed her place of residency yet; then his lawyer can advise her that if she does move, they will inform the courts that she is in violation of the custody agreement and seek legal actions against her. This may also prompt her to want to change the custody agreement in which the OP can move as well. If it turns out she's already in violation, then his lawyer can file the necessary paperwork with the courts for violating the custody agreement. And the reason I say change in residency is because that's what the op stated on his original post. She may still own the house within the school district; but if she's not residing in it (and residing in their new home), then it could be a violation of custody agreement.

So to the OP, you asked if you needed a lawyer; my answer to you is yes, you do. Best of luck to you.

 

[bookgirl]

OP I get it.

I have an idiot ex sister in law. The boys love their mother, but they know and admit she has issues. It's not like they're neglected or in danger, Mom is just self centered and a drama queen (their words). If she wants to adjust the shedule then it's up to Dad and his family to fix it, she has been known to inform the day of when there needs to be a change. They've learned to go with the flow, since they know if worse comes to worse Daddy or his family will always make the adjustment.

He had to be pretty hard nosed in the divorce to make sure she could not control money or the boys' education and minimize his involvement in their lives (it worked with her first husband, but my brother was better at documenting and chose to fight for his kids)

So while she has physical custody he has joint custody as far as all decisions and pretty standard visitions as far as weekends and holidays with the addition of unlimited access during the week as much as he wants. She makes sure that he has them way more than half when it benefits her schedule. Most of the time he doesn't care as he loves his boys and wants to make sure they know that he loves them and WANTS to be with them as much as work and life allow. However he does occasionally plan to use his off weekends to make plans and she hates it when he enforces the custody so that she can't do whatever she wants and assume that he'll just take up her slack.

I just hate that she does this so much that it's become common place to the boys. We used to hide it and cover it up but they still knew and now we just hug them and love them and make sure that they know someone will always be there.

This weekend it'll be me since my brother will be out of town and she assumed that he would keep them on her weekend since he's had them all week, so she could make her own plans. She knows she's supposed to get them before Saturday am but she'll call dump her responsibility and blame it on my brother for not switching with her after she had made plans without discussing it with him in the first place.

My brother picks his battles, and your situation sounds like it may be a battle to fight as it could lead to some major problems later.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Psst! It is acceptable netiquette to reply without having read the ENTIRE thread of several pages.

Netiquette, heckitteque. It's common sense to read all several/many pages of a thread before responding.

 

[arthur06]

I stopped at the Lawyers office today. It was a bad week to go. My lawyer was in court today and her assistant is recovery after minor surgery. I talked to the receptionist (her legal knowledge is not up to par with the others) and she wanted to let me know that trying to get verification of actual ownership of a home is step 1.

I am sending a letter with DS to his mom's tomorrow. Asking for a definitive answer on a house purchase.

He comes back on Saturday, he is here for NYE, so I hope that she will respond by then.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

I stopped at the Lawyers office today. It was a bad week to go. My lawyer was in court today and her assistant is recovery after minor surgery. I talked to the receptionist (her legal knowledge is not up to par with the others) and she wanted to let me know that trying to get verification of actual ownership of a home is step 1.

I am sending a letter with DS to his mom's tomorrow. Asking for a definitive answer on a house purchase.

He comes back on Saturday, he is here for NYE, so I hope that she will respond by then.

I wouldn't use your son as the messenger or delivery person. Send it certified mail to her address or let your attorney do so. The court won't like you using your child to deliver messages.

 

[hereyago]

I wouldn't use your son as the messenger or delivery person. Send it certified mail to her address or let your attorney do so. The court won't like you using your child to deliver messages.

Exactly. Plus with certified mail she can't say she didn't get it if she signs for it.

 

[Jing]

authur06 - I have no advice or wisdom to share personally, but I do want to wish you best of luck that this situation resolves both amicably and economically. It is concerning that your ex's husband has restricted her ability to communicate with you. I work in mental health and just the few isolative behaviors you have described raise a number of red flags. Any chance parent-teacher conferences might be coming up in the near future where you would be "forced" to speak to each other in a neutral (and free but on-the-record) environment?

 

[canopynut66]

I need a little help. My lawyers office is closed already for the holiday, as is the courthouse. In 2006 my ex and I went to court over custody of my son. In 2007, the judge made his ruling on the case. It included a full 50/50 split to time with my son. I have him 26 weeks per year, as does she. I pay a very small amount of child support and all his medical. One of the stipulation to joint custody was that we both maintained residence within the town that he went to school in. Its a town of about 30,000 so it's not overly tiny.

My son came over today to say that she bought a house out of town, about 10 miles away. Which is a violation of the court judgement. She (and her husband) have been terrible through all of this, and I want to protect my rights as well as my sons (and sticking it to her wouldn't be bad either).

How do I proceed if she is in contempt of court? Do I need to have my lawyer involved or do I simply just go to the courthouse and file one on my own?

She doesn't close on the house until February, so I am just getting all the info and knowledge before that point.

My Grandaughters kids have to stay in --same school --she can buy a house any where as long as kids go to the same school..and she did and they do and her ex had a fit but as long as the kids in the same school he has no recourse...

 

[Swan4Me]

I wouldn't use your son as the messenger or delivery person. Send it certified mail to her address or let your attorney do so. The court won't like you using your child to deliver messages.

Agreed-no kid is a messanger for that

 

[seashoreCM]

I'm questioning whether you should notify your ex now (via note carried by DS or otherwise) but instead wait until it becomes sure that your ex is going to move.

However it is okay for your lawyer to decide when to notify your ex and do the notification for you.

 

[arthur06]

UPDATE!

OP Here.

Got word today that they closed on there house. Out of town. It is 3 miles outside of the school district. The place we wanted to move was under 5, but were told no.

I talked to my lawyer today and she said that she IS in violation of the court judgement. She said that her intent is right, but she is in violation of the agreement as it is written.

I am going to try to work out an agreement with my ex, but doubt that she will be willing to work at all.

Just thought I would update everyone who participated in the topic.

 

[ZehnJahren]

Wow, very interesting. That's awesome that you'd come back to update, as I followed along in this one.

I'm definitely interested to find out what the final outcome is; but she is in violation and she'll HAVE to work something out.

 

[cm8]

UPDATE!

OP Here.

Got word today that they closed on there house. Out of town. It is 3 miles outside of the school district. The place we wanted to move was under 5, but were told no.

I talked to my lawyer today and she said that she IS in violation of the court judgement. She said that her intent is right, but she is in violation of the agreement as it is written.

I am going to try to work out an agreement with my ex, but doubt that she will be willing to work at all.

Just thought I would update everyone who participated in the topic.

Thanks for update, I hope it all works out

 

[sookie]

UPDATE!

OP Here.

Got word today that they closed on there house. Out of town. It is 3 miles outside of the school district. The place we wanted to move was under 5, but were told no.

I talked to my lawyer today and she said that she IS in violation of the court judgement. She said that her intent is right, but she is in violation of the agreement as it is written.

I am going to try to work out an agreement with my ex, but doubt that she will be willing to work at all.

Just thought I would update everyone who participated in the topic.

I would be really upset!!! Or, possibly, could you come to an agreement where you could move out of town now?