Disneyland stopping GAC ??

[Roo'sMom]

Hi,

Does anyone know if this is true?

http://www.petitiononline.com/BPparent/petition.html

Disneyland Resorts--Please Bring Back the Special Needs Pass Petition

Will this happen at Disneyworld too?

 

[dclfun]

First of all, no one has to purchase a fast pass. In another area I read that up to 30% of all guests in one day at DL were obtaining the pass, which made it impossible and unfair to all guests and "ride CM's" at DL, and although I'm sure there were many people who needed it for legitimate reasons, many were getting it just to bypass lines. The system is being changed to mimic the one in place at WDW. BTW, I just got a new pass at WDW and it's now a red card with green lights on it and looks much easier to be read by a host/hostess at an attraction. I also thought that children with autism as well as mobility challenged individuals at DL were still being given the pass, it's just no longer an automatic handout. Those with invisible disabilites who can't stand in lines are being directed to use a wheelchair ( same as at WDW ). ---Kathy

 

[Roo'sMom]

Thanks for the info. I received several copies of requests to sign the 'petition' (on the autism mail groups I belong to) and I was just trying to determine the validity of it.

 

[SueM in MN]

From what I know, it seems like the petition is based on rumors and incomplete information (such as saying that you need to pay extra for FASTPASS, when it is free).
Here's a link to an article on a webpage called MiceAge, basically saying the DL SAP is being brought into allignment with the WDW GAC.
There is also a DIS Debate Board thread about this. CLICK Here for a link to it.

I agree with dclfun (and the MiceAge article) that it appears Disneyland is changing their Special Assistance Pass to be more in line with what goes on at WDW. Their SAPs apparently allowed the holder to bypass the lines and avoid a wait (which the ones at WDW don't do). Also, apparently, all their SAPs were the same, so that somone who needed to avoid stairs (for example) got the same SAP as someone with a child with autism. That's not the way it is at WDW - the card at WDW is for assistance that fits the need of the person with a disability. From what I have read, DL gave out a lot of SAPs (the MiceAge article and other things I found said up to 1,000 a day compared to 200 for all the WDW parks combined. Many of them were given out to people with endurance concerns. One of the changes being made to it is to not give those people a SAP, but instead suggest they use a wheelchair or scooter. That's the way it's been at WDW for quite a while.

About (maybe) 5 years ago, WDW changed their "Pass" to a Guest Assistance Card. One of the reasons for changing it was that some people took the word "Pass" very literally and expected to go ahead of anyone who was waiting (even other people with disabilities who were waiting). We saw this several times when people brought their "Pass" to the CM and demanded to get onto a ride immediately. One really obnoxious guy almost got into blows over it at the Jungle Cruise when the CM told him that he would have to wait for the other people with disabilities who were already in the area. The guy pulled out his "pass" again and demanded to be let on "right now", because he had a pass. The CM asked those of us who were already waiting if it was OK with us to let him on since we were ahead of him - we all agreed (since none of us wanted to wait with him until it was his turn. The CM let his party on, but made it very clear that it was only because he was being allowed to go ahead by those of us who legitamately would have gone on first.

I think DL will probably do the same thing as WDW does with GACs for people with autism. After all, it's not in WDW or DL's best interest to have an autistic person having a meltdown in line. It's not fair to the family or to the other people in line.

 

[teri]

The petition had incorrect statements regarding Fastpass, but essentially it is correct.

A number of families traveling with special needs children have been denied the SAC at Disneyland in recent weeks, including families travelling with children with juvenile rheumtatoid arthritis and cerebral palsy. Families were quite literally told that, if their child could not handle the line, perhaps they should consider vacationing elsewhere. Apparently it was dependent on which Guest Services person was on at the time. Doctor's notes did not matter. However, some people with autistic kids or other special needs kids had no problem. Enforcement was inconsistent, and CM attitudes toward some guests have been reported to be hostile.

Disneyland is not comparable to WDW in terms of wheelchair or ECv accessiblity. Few lines are mainstream. The wheelchair lines are very long.

The MiceAge article is not correct in many respects. Saying "As many as 1000" SAP s at Disneyland "on some days" compared to an "average" of 200 at WDW is like comparing apples during harvest to oranges all year round. Also, most visitors to Disneyland are day visitors who would get their SAC on each visit, while many more WDW visitors are multi-day. Also, Disneyland gives SACs to everyone in wheelchairs. Locals at Disneyladn do not get their SAC for 3 months, they have to get a new one every time they go. The comparison of those numbers is not valid.

The abuse issue would have been a non-issue if Disneyland instituted a return-time system similar to the "yellow card" that was used at WDW a few years ago. There would have been no advantage, and the abuse would have stopped. Now, instead of curbing the abuse, they are denying assistance to people who really need it.

It is a terrible thing.

 

[SueM in MN]

teri, do you know of any other article about the situation?
All I could find was the MiceAge article, which was not a balanced article, but did make some good points. (The author is seem kind of hostile to the idea of SACs/SAPs, which I should have pointed out.) The picture of the SAP line from that article was especially good. The only other things I found were either very short articles that just said "it's changing" or people who had been denied a SAC complaining about it; those that I found generally fell under the category of "I have a mobility problem and they told me that I can't get a SAP anymore, but I don't want to stand in line and I won't rent a wheelchair" or people who sounded very much like the "Phil" who wrote the letter to the MiceAge author.
It definately sounds like they had a problem at DL with the SAPs. I know you can't compare the numbers given out between WDW and DL as a valid comparison since we don't know any valid denominator, but they should be looking at what else they can do if they are giving out that many SAPs. I also don't know if the 1,000 number includes people with wheelchairs and ecvs because (I've read) at one point you had to have a SAP even with a wheelchair and then it changed to not needing one. The system at DL is broken if people who need to be waiting out of the sun, or in a quieter place or need some special assistance are having to wait in a line like shown in the picture.

A number of families traveling with special needs children have been denied the SAC at Disneyland in recent weeks, including families travelling with children with juvenile rheumtatoid arthritis and cerebral palsy. Families were quite literally told that, if their child could not handle the line, perhaps they should consider vacationing elsewhere. Apparently it was dependent on which Guest Services person was on at the time. Doctor's notes did not matter. However, some people with autistic kids or other special needs kids had no problem. Enforcement was inconsistent, and CM attitudes toward some guests have been reported to be hostile.

That's especially sad since the same thing happened at WDW when they made the switch from the Guest Assistance Pass to the Guest Assistance Card a number of years ago. We personally experienced it when on several occasions, CMs who were working on rides saw what trouble we were having in line and sent us to Guest Services to get a card. One even wrote a note and signed it with her name and a radio number or some way for the Guest Services CM to call her. The Guest services CM treated us very rudely (we were told it was our problem if our child had problems in the line) and we were told the GAC did not exist. By the next year, they had their act together much better and we were treated uch more appropriately. You would think they would have used the experience at WDW to improve the change process at DL.

 

[connie254]

I posted a message on the autism yahoo group that I belong to about this site and that this ssite hasn't mentioned anything about it. I got blasted. They all believed the other site, based upon one person. She has never been to WDW, with her son. I have been there three times using the GAC, once without. She didn't even know the correct term for it. I'm tired of hearing the whining going on there. They go on and on about meetings that occur in Columbus and how we all should attend(okay, it's a three hour drive for me,who's going to watch my autistic son,and they don't want to hear anything but themselves)
When I did my WDW research online, I found this site and wdwig. Between the two, I have all the info I need. I know that it is up to date. The disablilities forum was a godsend. I glanced at that website and wasn't impressed.

 

[summerrluvv]

Originally posted by connie254
I posted a message on the autism yahoo group that I belong to about this site and that this ssite hasn't mentioned anything about it. I got blasted. They all believed the other site, based upon one person. She has never been to WDW, with her son. I have been there three times using the GAC, once without. She didn't even know the correct term for it. I'm tired of hearing the whining going on there. They go on and on about meetings that occur in Columbus and how we all should attend(okay, it's a three hour drive for me,who's going to watch my autistic son,and they don't want to hear anything but themselves)
When I did my WDW research online, I found this site and wdwig. Between the two, I have all the info I need. I know that it is up to date. The disablilities forum was a godsend. I glanced at that website and wasn't impressed.

I posted this site and the link to the other site (miceage or whateve it was) explaining the policy. No one thinks its credible information posted over here (and there) and everyone has been so quick to bash Disney. I have been seeing this "petition" on many parenting boards and have been getting it emailed to me as well.

Also, there was a very good point in the miceage article.

"As I understand it even the American with Disabilities Act requires equal access, not superior access, for disabled people. The idea behind that law was to allow the disabled equal access so they can have the same experience regular people have."

 

[nee]

ttt

 

[SueM in MN]

Here is a link to a balanced article on the mouseplanet site. The article is more addressing Disney's California Adventure.
Mouseplanet also had a
rather active discussion going on (I didn't read all 21 pages, but did read about 10 of them. Many good points.

As for the original petition - I'd have more respect for it if the person starting it had done some checking about FASTPASSES. If one of the big complaints is that without the SAP, people will be forced to pay for FASTPASSES, it really ruins credibility for the person who started the petition to not know that is false. Even if some of the other points are true, it does not look good when something that could have been easily checked out was not.

Here's a link to another thread on this board on the same subject. I'm linking it so we can keep discussion on one thread.

 

[Tiiiigergirl]

AAAAAAAHHHHHHH. Couldn't reply on the DIS debate board. Too many ignorant people that will refuse to be educated. It just raises my blood pressure. I've learned to let them go but I need to scream one more time. AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH. Ok I feel better.

 

[s&k'smom]

I haven't read all the posts here because I am at work and wanted to pass this along ASAP. Go to Deb Willis's site there is an update on the GAC that the folks who write the Passporter Travel book have researched. WWW.WDWIG.COM. It's right in there when you open the site. Apparently this issue is really heating up.

 

[SueM in MN]

Thanks for the link, s&k'smom.
This is kind of an update of what I have been able to find.
Does anyone know the story of how the petition started?
According to some posters on the thread I posted before from MousePlanet , the woman who started it was at DL on NYE and was told she could not get a SAP/SAC (Special Assistance Card). There's nothing more that I can find. I assume the person has someone in her family with autism, since that's what the petition addresses. Several people on the MousePlanet thread commented that they had been to DL since the change and had gotten SACs without a problem. The response to them was on the order of "can you guarantee that every person with autism will get a card? If not, your expereince means nothing." Several asked for specifics about people who had been turned down for SACs No one who siad they knew someone who was provided any, but there were some people who did talk about their won expericnes (one is on page 13). It looks like there is a lot of confusion among the CMs at DL and a lot of inconsistency.

Now, before you read any more, I admit to being a litle compulsive (and I am a speed reader). I looked at all the comments people added to the petition (all 6695 that were there when I was looking). A large number who left comments have not been to any of the Disney parks.... but were planning on going. Some had been to either WDW or DL and used GACs/SAPs in the past. Many (including people who were going to WDW) were planning on cancelling trips over this petition. There were people asking for boycotts of Disney parks (plus all Disney products, movies, TV, radio, plus all the advertisers).

Of all the people who signed the petition, I only saw one where the person had a problem at DL (she did not specify when they were there and she did have a pass). The number refers to the signature number:
275. Diane Gallant I did notice an error in the petition, as I know that Fast Passes are no extra charge -- just a convenient way to reserve a time to return to the ride and bypass the longer line. However, I have experienced myself how misunderstood autism is by many of Disney's employees, and have often been hassled about my son's disability. Many have said that if he doesn't need a wheelchair, he can stand the line. That is complete ignorance, by people completely unfamiliar with autism spectrum disorder, and the behavioral issues associated, not to mention the potential dangers. If not for the pass, we would not dare go to Disneyland, with the constrant threat of elopement (running away is a very common threat in autism, and the long lines have already beaconned our son, who has slipped past others, only intent on getting to the ride. Autism goes far beyond a typical child's ability to wait. There are many medical symptoms as well, that can cause anxiety attacks, complete behavioral meltdowns, elopement , etc.,

Two people posted problems, but, interestingly, both were at WDW (and one did not specify what disability her son had):
3058. Barbara Ligeikis We just returned from disneyworld 1/20/04 and they gave us a hard time obtaining the pass. the woman didn't even want to see my sons doctors letter. after complaining a little bit ,she finally gave us one, but she had a dirty look on her face.

4694. Lora D Brewer I just returned from Disney World with my 3 yr old autistic son, and I was informed that without a physical disabilty that no special consideration would be given. The disruption he can create can ruin not only our vacation, but the families standing around us in the lines. We make several trips to the parks each year and would appreciate your reconsideration of this pass. All documentation is available on my son and would be presented.

Several people posted that they had gotten SACs recently and wanted to protest them ending the program (The third and 4th persons were at WDW, the first 2, I'm not sure. As far as I can tell, they got their cards after the program changed if they were at DL):
888. Heather Spaetzel We just went to Disney over Christmas, after promising ourselves we would never go again as three years ago, it was a nightmare waiting in the long lines with our daughter with autism. This time, we had heard about the special pass for children with disabilities. What a difference! I can't express how much we enjoyed our trip this time. They did not look at Amber's IEP, but were generous in letting the grandparents on the pass so we could all go as a family on the rides. If this pass is unavailable to us, chances are likely we will never be able to go to Disney again. This would be a real injustice to many, including my daughter who responds to anything with the Disney Princesses. Please don't take this away.

4597. Rose Adams My son has down syndrome as well as other medical problems and we were at the magic kingdom Jan 1st and used the disabilites pass and it really makes a world of difference with a special needs child life is difficult enough for them the pass give them the opportunity to enjoy life without the stress of waiting exception to the rule apply in every aspect of life This is a great thing done take the joy out of their hearts maybe you the VIP's of disney need to accompany a special needs child in the park and experience their joy., Disney was created for the children. Wasn't it.........

6060.Jennifer Pierce I was at Disney World on 1/17/04 and explained to Guest Services that my 6 year old son is bipolar/ADHD and has many difficulties. We received a special guest pass to include our entire family (6 people). Having that pass made our trip a wonderful experience for all of us. We spent 5 hours at the park and went on all the attractions without issue from my son. My husband felt guilty that we didn’t have to wait in line, but it was the only perk we’ve ever gotten for a lifetime of pain & suffering. The following day we went to Univ. Studios & asked for a similar pass – they didn’t have it and the day was horrible! We ended up leaving after only 2 hours and went on just 2 attractions – our son was miserable / had melt-downs / became violent – basically ruined the day for us (and at over $50 per person, it was very expensive) I have been singing Disney’s praises to everyone for the past 2 weeks and it saddens me to read they are discontinuing this service – our kids NEED this one perk!

4732. Richard L. Eisner We spent 4 days at Disney World with our special needs grandson in December. This would not have been possible with out the pass.

One person posted that she called the park and confirmed they still have the card:
5501. Mary This is not true. Disney is offering special needs passes. And they never took them away. I spoke with them myself on the phone. Please confirm this information by calling the parks and asking yourself.

There were quite a few suggestions for more "proof" of disability. along the lines of this post:
470. Eileen Lim To prevent people from abusing it, Disney has to make sure the staff checks the child's IEP (not just the doctor's note). When we went last summer, we were given the pass without being asked to show a proof, which is kind and trusting of them, but that might lead to more abuse.

And some of the posts that disturbed me were pitting people with disabilities against each other (similar to this):
2215. Kathy Harris Kids in wheelchairs don't mind waiting in line! It's the kids with the invisible disabilities that have the melt downs! Autism, and mental retardation are just two examples! I work in this field and have lots of experience. If you need documentation to show proof then let that be your new policy instead of discriminating!
This was sad to me since we have enough problems without working against each other!

And then there were a number that said Walt would be spinning in his grave. The funniest one (at least to me) was this:
759.Walt Disney instituted this policy. Honor his memory and compassion by bringing it back.
Since when Walt died, most people with disabilities were not out in the Mainstream, I doubt that he had too many policies about how to handle them in his parks.

My personal opinion: after reading all these comments I am upset, but not all at Disney. They are responsible for letting a situation (the past SAP) get out of control and then creating chaos as they tried to "fix" it.
The person who started the petition might have had a legitimate beef (problem/concern, for any non-Americans, who may not know that use of the word). She has a right to make her beef public, but before widely disseminating it, she also had a responsibility to provide some information about her situation and the specific problem she is protesting. I don't have anough facts to know what happened. And, considering that the SAP/SAC at Dl is still a work in progress, I guess it's not fair to protest something that's just in the tinkering stage. I'm sad that people are making (or un-making) vacation plans based on something so nebulous.

 

[AprilsZoo]

Originally posted by dclfun
In another area I read that up to 30% of all guests in one day at DL were obtaining the pass, <snip>although I'm sure there were many people who needed it for legitimate reasons, many were getting it just to bypass lines. ---Kathy

But....
Was that "one day" by any chance one of Disneyland's Happy Hearts Days? On those days I would expect 30% of the visitors to need a GAC -- after all more disabled guests will be in the park.

April

 

[SueM in MN]

I can't find the article right now, but I did read one that said an average of 20% of guests were getting SAPs. I know that for a while they were not requiring wheelchair users to get a SAP; the wheelchair itself allowed access to the accessible entrances. Whether you need a SAP with a wheelchair or not would impact the number of passes given out quite a bit though, since many of the lines are not wheelchair accessible.
I have read reports though from people who were waiting 30-40 minutes in the SAP line before the change (besides one DL visitor who posted that on a question on this board). I've also seen posts on other boards (and some of the people who signed the petition) indicating they had in the past routinely gotten a SAP and would not be able to go to DL now without a SAP. Some of the disabilities they got SAPs for included diabetes, asthma, and one family got one because their child had food allergies. So, they appeared to be pretty loosely given out.

 

[darlingfamily]

My own personal experience.

We lived in the DL area for over 10 years. We had annual passes for probably the past 8. When we first started to obtain the SAP it was rather controlled. You had to have a dr.s note or something from the school district stating the child's disability. Well, I believe it was the ACLU that got involved and DL was told they cannot request proof of a disability. I believe that is when it started to get out of control. I mean we would be at City Hall behind about 4 teenage girls with clearly not even an invisable disability and they would walk up and demand a SAP. The CM wouldn't or couldn't ask about their disability and they would get one and off they go. I even heard comments like "that was too easy" and "we need to remember this every time we come" being said. The other part of the real problem though were the attraction CMs who did little to curb the necessity for the pass by just letting any number of people go along with the pass holder. So if there were 20 people in a party at Priates, they would all get on with the pass. I cannot remember the number of times we were behind a party of 10 or 15 at Pirates or Small World. Even waiting for rides like Peter Pan!!! It really was out of control. The other problem was that the attraction CMs were not checking with WHO was on the pass so if Grandma who was in the wheelchair and had the pass didn't want to go on Matterhorn then the rest of the party would use her pass. There really was a lot that was wrong and it went on for too long. In fact before we moved we had decided that we weren't gonig to get annual passes because it was almost not worth going due to the amount of abuse that was going on in the name of disabilities.

Any kind of a change like that is not going to be easy and there are going to be bumps along the way. And, those who get services refused due to misunderstandings or miscommunications. Especially with something that has gotten as far out of control as this has.

But, I know they have been changing things. MY DH took the our two girls to DL and CA over CHristmas break. They were out visiting family. He said that the change was wonderful! He said that the CMs at city hall were attentive to the exact disability and while they didn't require a dr note they were specific that this was not a means to get on the ride faster but to be able to wait in an area more tolerable for my DD's sensory needs without having a meltdown in the regular line. He said it was quite refreshing from the days of watching people with no real disability getting passes like it was a birthday sticker and abusing it all over.

I think a lot of the complaints will probably be from those who truly do feel like they should be able to bypass a line and not have to wait, etc. Along with those who just want to not have to wait in line at all.

Now my son has endurance issues in the fact that he has very little concept of time and making him wait for extended periods of time makes him meltdown but out plan to divert that is for one parent to pick up fast passes for the more popular rides and not take him to that area of the park till we are ready to. Other then what they have done with the fast pass and with the SAP SAC there really isn't much more that Disney can do I don't think.

I dunno. Maybe I am missing something here?

 

[Pretzel]

"6060.Jennifer Pierce... my 6 year old son is bipolar/ADHD..."

(Isn't this a bit young for a diagnosis? Their personality isn't formed yet, and it still seems to young to eliminate many different things)

...My husband felt guilty that we didn?t have to wait in line, but it was the only perk we?ve ever gotten for a lifetime of pain & suffering..."

This really p*sses me off! Pain and suffering? Lifetime? A) He is only 6, how can it be a lifetime? B) Pain and suffering? I feel sorry for this boy. His life at home can't be too good. I could not imagine regarding a child that you kept(ie, did not put into foster care) willingly and call them basically a burden, and pain-inducing.

 

[darlingfamily]

Difficult life, maybe, life of pain and suffering, I don't think so. How terribly sad for that child.

 

[SueM in MN]

Please, let's all play nice.

"6060.Jennifer Pierce... my 6 year old son is bipolar/ADHD..." (Isn't this a bit young for a diagnosis? Their personality isn't formed yet, and it still seems to young to eliminate many different things) ...My husband felt guilty that we didn?t have to wait in line, but it was the only perk we?ve ever gotten for a lifetime of pain & suffering..."

just to clarify, that was a quote I posted on page 1 from comments people had written on the autism petition. We have no way of validating the info people wrote there and I'm sure some of it is made up. For example, one person posted that her autistic child was lost at "Disney" for several hours and that the CMs told her they don't do anything for lost children. I know that isn't true.