Disney to lay off 28,000 workers at WDW and DL

[bavaria]

We can only judge a situation from our life experiences. And over the years especially during the 2008 recession it is clear that people make poor money choices. They have the money to save, they choose not to.

So @MetalMasterC just made poor choices? This elitist attitude is frankly shocking but not different from what I used to read here. Surely you can understand that there are a large number of people in every country who don't have choices, and who cannot save?

The average employee at US Disney parks is paid a very low salary, with poor to no benefits. And they are based in some of the higher cost of living areas of the country.

There is so much more that I could say, but yet again I am disgusted with what I read here from people who clearly don't understand the inequality in the world, and that not everyone 'made poor choices'. Some people have very few choices they can make in life, and are struggling even more now. They don't need those who have the privilege of staying home to judge them where their future has become even more unstable.

 

[Colleen27]

So @MetalMasterC just made poor choices? This elitist attitude is frankly shocking but not different from what I used to read here. Surely you can understand that there are a large number of people in every country who don't have choices, and who cannot save?

The average employee at US Disney parks is paid a very low salary, with poor to no benefits. And they are based in some of the higher cost of living areas of the country.

There is so much more that I could say, but yet again I am disgusted with what I read here from people who clearly don't understand the inequality in the world, and that not everyone 'made poor choices'. Some people have very few choices they can make in life, and are struggling even more now. They don't need those who have the privilege of staying home to judge them where their future has become even more unstable.

And beyond that, it strikes me as downright cruel to hold the position that while we need people to do the the 40ish percent of American jobs that don't pay enough to live on and want to enjoy the services those workers provide and the lower consumer prices they enable, we don't respect the struggle or even the basic humanity/decency of the people who hold those jobs. Most of us on this board are relatively well off. Most of us are here because we love a particular, pricey vacation destination, a place that couldn't possibly exist without the tens of thousands of mostly low-wage, part-time, no-benefits workers who do the day-to-day work that keeps the place going. But the minute those workers face a layoff, reductions in hours or other hardships, so many of us rush right in to declare what terrible decisions they've made not to have somehow saved a rainy day fund out of their $10/hr pay.

 

[tvguy]

So @MetalMasterC just made poor choices? This elitist attitude is frankly shocking but not different from what I used to read here. Surely you can understand that there are a large number of people in every country who don't have choices, and who cannot save?

The average employee at US Disney parks is paid a very low salary, with poor to no benefits. And they are based in some of the higher cost of living areas of the country.

There is so much more that I could say, but yet again I am disgusted with what I read here from people who clearly don't understand the inequality in the world, and that not everyone 'made poor choices'. Some people have very few choices they can make in life, and are struggling even more now. They don't need those who have the privilege of staying home to judge them where their future has become even more unstable.

Certainly one size doesn't fit all We all bring different life experiences. With all due respect, one of the things that came out during the 2008-09 recession is the general population needs education on managing money. I have to browse bankruptcy filings and people actually list their RV's and Boats as necessities and their food and medical expenses as optional.
I'm sorry you are disgusted with reality. It is probably a little of both of our views.
And of course this is the DIS where there was a thread a few years back where many genuinely argued that an individual making $150,000. My wife and I are both "professionals", top pay scale, and our combined income has never every come close to that and I would say even in expensive California we are middle class.

 

[bavaria]

And beyond that, it strikes me as downright cruel to hold the position that while we need people to do the the 40ish percent of American jobs that don't pay enough to live on and want to enjoy the services those workers provide and the lower consumer prices they enable, we don't respect the struggle or even the basic humanity/decency of the people who hold those jobs. Most of us on this board are relatively well off. Most of us are here because we love a particular, pricey vacation destination, a place that couldn't possibly exist without the tens of thousands of mostly low-wage, part-time, no-benefits workers who do the day-to-day work that keeps the place going. But the minute those workers face a layoff, reductions in hours or other hardships, so many of us rush right in to declare what terrible decisions they've made not to have somehow saved a rainy day fund out of their $10/hr pay.

This week ver.di, the largest German union, had rotating strikes with bus and subway and kitas (childcare) impacted. There was some discussion in the media if they should be striking 'during the corona times', but the prevailing belief seems to be that it is very important that we preserve our right to strike. Most people understand that these are the very people who worked during the spring time, and cannot work from home, and that they have a right to expect more pay.

The reality is that everyone is here due to the accident of their birth. Most are as you say highly privileged, even if they don't consider themselves to be so. But certainly most also can have empathy and understanding that low income workers are being particularly hard hit right now, with no job prospects anytime in the near future. And for those smugly saying they should have made better life choices, the waves of job losses are just beginning. Now we are seeing professional positions being lost due to impacts on a variety of industries. I know lawyers, interior designers, architects, urban planners, and other skilled professionals who lost their 'safe' jobs because of the pandemic.

 

[bavaria]

Certainly one size doesn't fit all We all bring different life experiences. With all due respect, one of the things that came out during the 2008-09 recession is the general population needs education on managing money. I have to browse bankruptcy filings and people actually list their RV's and Boats as necessities and their food and medical expenses as optional.
I'm sorry you are disgusted with reality. It is probably a little of both of our views.
And of course this is the DIS where there was a thread a few years back where many genuinely argued that an individual making $150,000. My wife and I are both "professionals", top pay scale, and our combined income has never every come close to that and I would say even in expensive California we are middle class.

To be clear, I am not disgusted with 'reality'. I am disgusted by some of the replies here which show a complete lack of understanding of the economic reality of millions of low paid workers, who are even worse off now as entire industries have crumbled which typically offer opportunities for those with entry level skills.

Those laid off from Disney will have a very hard time finding new jobs in restaurants, hotels, tourism, shared car services, etc and there are only so many jobs in shops that will be available.

 

[tvguy]

To be clear, I am not disgusted with 'reality'. I am disgusted by some of the replies here which show a complete lack of understanding of the economic reality of millions of low paid workers, who are even worse off now as entire industries have crumbled which typically offer opportunities for those with entry level skills.

Those laid off from Disney will have a very hard time finding new jobs in restaurants, hotels, tourism, shared car services, etc and there are only so many jobs in shops that will be available.

I can only speak to where I live, which is 400 miles from the closest Disney resort. They can't find enough personal shoppers here at the grocery store, pizza delivery drivers and share car service drivers. People just don't want those jobs. But here, fast food starts t $17 an hour because people won't work for les..

 

[KAMLEM]

I have a friend who's husband was laid off due to CV19, he was called back but told if he didn't feel comfortable coming back he didn't have to and he could continue to collect unemployment. His wife said "no way you're going back to make less money". He's an example of a person making more money on unemployment with the additional $600 than what he was making while actually working. This is what's wrong with that plan. Why would a person go back to work to make less money? JMHO

Unfortunately there were a lot of people who thought that way while they were getting the extra $600. I work for a staffing company and our Recruiters were getting told over and over again by candidates that they would not accept a position as long as they were making more on unemployment.

 

[JimMIA]

It was certainly simpler at my privately-owned, non-unionized company here in Canada when Covid lay-offs became necessary at the end of March. Each manager was required to decide. I had to choose 1 of my staff to terminate outright and 3 to put on temporary lay-off. I picked them based on merit - their job performance relative to one another.

Canadian EI (employment insurance) is federal and the rate is the same in every province. Covid-relief benefits were a flat-rate of $2,000/month. Each of my laid-off staff members were making more than double and in one case triple that amount. Of course there was no question they were RUNNING back to work as soon as we got the go-ahead from corporate to recall.

My daughter's IT company here in the US was similar. She had to select members of her team to be furloughed, and in some cases positions to be eliminated. The choices were neither simple nor easy because the company has a historically low turnover, all of the personnel affected were friends, and those whose jobs were eliminated would not return.

 

[godisney14]

My daughter's IT company here in the US was similar. She had to select members of her team to be furloughed, and in some cases positions to be eliminated. The choices were neither simple nor easy because the company has a historically low turnover, all of the personnel affected were friends, and those whose jobs were eliminated would not return.

What kind of IT is the company operating in if you don’t mind me asking?
Here on the West Coast, tech and healthcare are the two industries that have been practically COVID-proof, or actually boosted by this pandemic.

 

[JimMIA]

What kind of IT is the company operating in if you don’t mind me asking?
Here on the West Coast, tech and healthcare are the two industries that have been practically COVID-proof, or actually boosted by this pandemic.

It's the IT part of an insurance company. Most of the changes have not been specific to Covid, but rather to the overall economic slowdown caused by Covid.

 

[ronandannette]

My daughter's IT company here in the US was similar. She had to select members of her team to be furloughed, and in some cases positions to be eliminated. The choices were neither simple nor easy because the company has a historically low turnover, all of the personnel affected were friends, and those whose jobs were eliminated would not return.

Simple was the word I chose in contrast to the (IMO convoluted) "point system" the European poster described. That is not to say it was easy emotionally, for management or the employees.

 

[BrinkofSunshine]

I live in Orlando and am seeing friends/acquaintances post that they've lost their jobs at WDW after years and years of service. One is an Imagineer. So it's definitely all across the board. I feel terrible for them... FL Unemployment Benefits top out at $275 a week. I saw someone mention there were a couple states that are lower, but FL is a relatively high cost of living state. Rent in Orlando is outrageous and has been for several years. I work in the theme park industry and have been out of work since March. It's rough here right now...

 

[Colleen27]

I can only speak to where I live, which is 400 miles from the closest Disney resort. They can't find enough personal shoppers here at the grocery store, pizza delivery drivers and share car service drivers. People just don't want those jobs. But here, fast food starts t $17 an hour because people won't work for les..

But most of those are "gig" jobs with no guarantee of hours or income. Personal shoppers and car share drivers are abundant when jobs are scarce but hard to find when the economy is strong because often those gigs work out to paying less than minimum wage after expenses - they're jobs of last resort, taken mainly by people who don't have better options or who need a second job with a flexible schedule. My boys both tried DoorDash and Postmates as a second job - neither has a nice enough car to drive for Uber/Lyft - and both quit almost immediately because they just weren't bringing any real money in. You have to sit around in high volume areas waiting for jobs to pop up, you get no pay if you get no deliveries or for the time spend waiting between deliveries, and the payment is a pittance - $7 for a 5 mile delivery, for example - because it is really only paying for one way. Driving from the customer's address back to the high-volume area where you can pick up another job is on your time and your dime. Both of my boys found they were able to average only $10-12/hr before gas and expenses. Pizza delivery, at least, is an on-the-clock job... but most of the gig economy is a sub-minimum wage marketplace for the desperate, populated by a lot of the same people you'll find selling plasma to try to make ends meet.

 

[tvguy]

But most of those are "gig" jobs with no guarantee of hours or income. Personal shoppers and car share drivers are abundant when jobs are scarce but hard to find when the economy is strong because often those gigs work out to paying less than minimum wage after expenses - they're jobs of last resort, taken mainly by people who don't have better options or who need a second job with a flexible schedule. My boys both tried DoorDash and Postmates as a second job - neither has a nice enough car to drive for Uber/Lyft - and both quit almost immediately because they just weren't bringing any real money in. You have to sit around in high volume areas waiting for jobs to pop up, you get no pay if you get no deliveries or for the time spend waiting between deliveries, and the payment is a pittance - $7 for a 5 mile delivery, for example - because it is really only paying for one way. Driving from the customer's address back to the high-volume area where you can pick up another job is on your time and your dime. Both of my boys found they were able to average only $10-12/hr before gas and expenses. Pizza delivery, at least, is an on-the-clock job... but most of the gig economy is a sub-minimum wage marketplace for the desperate, populated by a lot of the same people you'll find selling plasma to try to make ends meet.

All in the mindset I guess. If you need money, you work at the jobs you can find.

 

[fla4fun]

Wow, some of these base numbers are awful. Texas' maximum unemployment payout is $521 per week. Florida's is particularly hard to believe.

It’s not just that the amount is low, but we have so few weeks we can collect, only 13. That is roughly three months, and then nothing. So for people filing now, their benefits, such as they are, will run out at the end of the year. I don’t foresee a booming economy by then, at least not here in the central Florida area. A lot of people will run out of benefits way before they find another job.

The year I graduated from high school, there was a recession and my Dad got laid off. He had a management position. It took two years for him to get another management position, and five years to get one in his field. We got by with him mowing vacant lots, with the money I earned in an insurance office, and my grandmother’s SS check (she lived with us). Mom couldn’t work because my grandmother needed constant care. It was hard. What is happening now is worse. There are large quantities of people with similar skill sets being dumped into the job market. These people will be competing for the same jobs and there won’t be nearly enough to go around. A few will be able to transition into a different arena, but not all. It’s going to get worse before it gets better.

 

[tex1989]

I get that is a tragedy for the workers and I love Disney but I understand given all that is happening that things have to be done. I put things into numbers because I am a finance sort of guy and I know that numbers have no feelings but if you assume for rounding sake that the average wage of the workers being let go is $10 which is probably on the low side, then that means the cost of 28,000 workers is $280,000 an hour, $2,240,000 a day, $11,200.000 a week, or $582,400,000 a year. That is a lot of money regardless of how much Disney makes. Last quarter shows revenue from park operations were down about $1.2 billion. To survive Disney has to make some very difficult choices.

 

[Chernabog#1fan]

I get that is a tragedy for the workers and I love Disney but I understand given all that is happening that things have to be done. I put things into numbers because I am a finance sort of guy and I know that numbers have no feelings but if you assume for rounding sake that the average wage of the workers being let go is $10 which is probably on the low side, then that means the cost of 28,000 workers is $280,000 an hour, $2,240,000 a day, $11,200.000 a week, or $582,400,000 a year. That is a lot of money regardless of how much Disney makes. Last quarter shows revenue from park operations were down about $1.2 billion. To survive Disney has to make some very difficult choices.

The minimum a cast member makes is $13 an hour. The issue that a lot of cast has right now is that the executives all went back to their multi-million dollar salaries in August versus holding out a bit longer to keep more of these people employed.

 

[bavaria]

But most of those are "gig" jobs with no guarantee of hours or income. Personal shoppers and car share drivers are abundant when jobs are scarce but hard to find when the economy is strong because often those gigs work out to paying less than minimum wage after expenses - they're jobs of last resort, taken mainly by people who don't have better options or who need a second job with a flexible schedule. My boys both tried DoorDash and Postmates as a second job - neither has a nice enough car to drive for Uber/Lyft - and both quit almost immediately because they just weren't bringing any real money in. You have to sit around in high volume areas waiting for jobs to pop up, you get no pay if you get no deliveries or for the time spend waiting between deliveries, and the payment is a pittance - $7 for a 5 mile delivery, for example - because it is really only paying for one way. Driving from the customer's address back to the high-volume area where you can pick up another job is on your time and your dime. Both of my boys found they were able to average only $10-12/hr before gas and expenses. Pizza delivery, at least, is an on-the-clock job... but most of the gig economy is a sub-minimum wage marketplace for the desperate, populated by a lot of the same people you'll find selling plasma to try to make ends meet.

And they assume that someone has a vehicle (I don't own one for the record, although I certainly don't live in poverty) The comment about owning boats shows out far out of reality some people are - how many of the laid off Disney workers owned boats? Most of the lowest earners, who were part time for the most part, didn't have enough disposable income to do much, let alone own a boat. Many were probably working multiple jobs, sharing living space, etc. And when one is poor, owning a car usually means owning a very old car subject to breakdowns and then there is no money for repairs.

The reality is that the pandemic has exposed even more the global inequalities, but also issues specific to some countries. One of the reasons why the US is struggling so much now is the lack of any social support structure, including healthcare and resources for those who lost their jobs.

In the DACH countries as a comparison, almost everything is open, people are not getting severely ill, we are not dying in droves, unemployment in Bavaria is back to about 3,9%, and the government is committed to paying 80 percent of salaries/income for two years for those who are working shortened or no hours. Unfortunately though until the US gets itself sorted out, we are all dealing with the consequences.

Those who are losing their jobs are already at real risk of having to deal with this for years and years; they don't need the extra burden of being judged or being told that they made poor life choices or that they should just pull themselves up.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Sure, some people who face tough circumstances helped create those circumstances, but they are still human beings. How we react to those in needs says something about us, not them. Covid has destroyed so many lives around the world.

 

[barkley]

Here on the West Coast, tech and healthcare are the two industries that have been practically COVID-proof, or actually boosted by this pandemic.

i think it depends on what type of healthcare. i'm in washington state and we've had massive pay cuts, layoffs and furloughs of healthcare staff. UW which has been at the forefront of the battle against covid locally and globally had by may of this year over a $500 million budget shortfall that resulted in furloughing 5% of their staff for anywhere from 1-8 weeks each. their losses? it's because the bread and butter for them and many other hospitals and providers are elective surgeries and procedures which people and not opting to do now.

our local providers are having to cut staff as well-fewer patients willing to come into offices for routine checkups and such, non in person appointments (which insurance companies pay providers less for)...we are seeing allot of people in the healthcare industry that have either lost their jobs or experienced extreme wage losses.