Disney Skyliner (Gondola) Construction Updates

[Huff]

I have seen rumors with and without A/C all over the internet. Until Disney themselves says yes or no its all a rumor.

https://ziggyknowsdisney.com/new-di...oning-and-expansion-to-animal-kingdom-coming/

There are a few methods to achieve A/C on Gondola's. Most common is to use capacitors. These are similar to batteries but charge extremely fast while the gondola passes thru each station. They can also provide large amounts of power rapidly to power the A/C. They do not need to last more than the time from one station to another. London has such a Gondola across the Thames.

 

[joelkfla]

I have seen rumors with and without A/C all over the internet. Until Disney themselves says yes or no its all a rumor.

https://ziggyknowsdisney.com/new-di...oning-and-expansion-to-animal-kingdom-coming/

There are a few methods to achieve A/C on Gondola's. Most common is to use capacitors. These are similar to batteries but charge extremely fast while the gondola passes thru each station. They can also provide large amounts of power rapidly to power the A/C. They do not need to last more than the time from one station to another. London has such a Gondola across the Thames.

This has been discussed extensively on the main thread over on the News & Rumors board and on another popular site, and the consensus is no a/c.

The blog you cited appears to be repeating info recently posted by another well-known blogger whom many consider unreliable.

 

[smartmommy4]

I have seen rumors with and without A/C all over the internet. Until Disney themselves says yes or no its all a rumor.

https://ziggyknowsdisney.com/new-di...oning-and-expansion-to-animal-kingdom-coming/

There are a few methods to achieve A/C on Gondola's. Most common is to use capacitors. These are similar to batteries but charge extremely fast while the gondola passes thru each station. They can also provide large amounts of power rapidly to power the A/C. They do not need to last more than the time from one station to another. London has such a Gondola across the Thames.

Doppelmayr is the manufacturer of the Gondola to Sentosa in Singapore, which has equally hot and humid summers. They recently upgraded that 30 year old system to increase the capacity, but to my knowledge did not add AC. If that gondola is fine without AC I think we will be too.

Air conditioning requires a huge amount of power in Florida's heat, something that batteries/capacitors cannot provide. The London gondola system does have AC, but people say they can't tell the difference. And London's summer is as hot as Orlando's winter, which is how they can get away with using capacitors to power their ACs.

You are right to say that we are just babbling when whatever will be will be, no matter what people say. But to be mentally prepared, it is more reasonable to assume that there will be no air conditioning.

And speaking of the Asian countries...I was in Hong Kong once when our airplane arrived but couldn't go to the gate, so we had to get out and get on a bus and be driven to the gate. The bus had no air conditioning, and the ride was very short, less than five minutes. Within that time, I was soaked in sweat. But other than that, I was fine, didn't die or anything.

The Asians are fine with no A/C, but we are Americans spending a boatload of money going to Disney World, and we are used to air conditioning everywhere. Are we as fine as the Asians?

I believe people will withstand the heat if they can be buzzed over to Epcot within 10 minutes, no wait time. That's even faster than the taxis. That's worth getting sweaty for. We will just develop a new saying: When you see a sweaty family, you say, "Just got off the Skyliner?"

I won't take it, though. At first I thought I would, but the more I think about it, that's such a sucky way of getting to Epcot! Disney World is turning into a third world country? Ew! I'm getting the Minnievan, goodness.

Given the choice, I will still take the bus. The bus is one reason I prefer Disney World over Disneyland. That blast of air conditioning cannot be beat!

 

[kaytieeldr]

I won't take it, though. At first I thought I would, but the more I think about it, that's such a sucky way of getting to Epcot! Disney World is turning into a third world country? Ew! I'm getting the Minnievan, goodness.

? London and Telluride are [in] third world countries?

 

[smartmommy4]

? London and Telluride are [in] third world countries?

No, I'm referring to Singapore or Vietnam or Hong Kong, which is as hot as Florida. London isn't hot, so it's no comparison and the gondola isn't a problem there. My point is, people in third world tropical Asian countries are used to hot public transits without AC, but for us Americans it is quite a downgrade, even if a gondola system is a pretty neat way to travel. Will the neatness overcome the heat for the majority of people?

Yes, probably. Americans are tough, and we will put up with any downgrade as long as it is some neat new thing, especially if it is Disney. As long as nobody dies from heat stroke, we'll be fine.

 

[smartmommy4]

There's nothing wrong with taking the gondola without AC as long as the sun isn't shining and it's not so hot out, like in the evenings or raining days or winter time. (At the least, I'm hoping this is true.) For me, that cuts out about 50% of our trips to Epcot and Hollywood Studios when we will have to call the taxi, but I guess that's not too bad. The benefit is, the rest of the 50% will be much faster. Another benefit is, we can buzz ourselves to Caribbean Beach or Boardwalk quickly in the evenings to eat at their restaurants. Or even during the day. The ride to CBR should be no more than 5 minutes. So over all, I'm looking forward to the gondolas even without AC and buses.

 

[smartmommy4]

I feel that Disney is building the gondolas without A/C with a blatant attitude of "Yeah, it will be hot as hell, but you are just going to suck it up, aren't you, because you don't have a choice!" I mean, look at Soarin. It used to be an amazing ride, and now I've seen its standby wait time down to 10 minutes in the afternoon, just three weeks ago, thanks to Disney's downgrading it. In fact, Soarin often has less wait than Mission Space! Whoever has seen that coming? It's been a couple of years and are they repenting of their stupid decision and bringing back the old Soarin? Nope. It's with that attitude that they decided to build a gondola system in Florida to replace the buses.

 

[smartmommy4]

I have seen rumors with and without A/C all over the internet. Until Disney themselves says yes or no its all a rumor.

https://ziggyknowsdisney.com/new-di...oning-and-expansion-to-animal-kingdom-coming/

There are a few methods to achieve A/C on Gondola's. Most common is to use capacitors. These are similar to batteries but charge extremely fast while the gondola passes thru each station. They can also provide large amounts of power rapidly to power the A/C. They do not need to last more than the time from one station to another. London has such a Gondola across the Thames.

I really hope you and Ziggy are right, but I have to mentally prepare for the worst case scenario of no A/C in Florida in the Summer.

 

[seashoreCM]

"You will have a seat -- these cabins are not designed for standees."

There is a weight limit that CMs will need to monitor. We could not rule out an occasional standee if families did not keep count when boarding, but 16 people in an 8 person gondola should never happen.

"... mentally prepare for the worst case scenario ..."

What if the gondolas are fitted with air conditioning but the A/C is broken on the gondola you get into, and by the time you find that out the doors have closed and you are on your ten minute way?

Recommended reading (warning: zombie):

https://www.krem.com/article/news/company-working-to-solve-heat-issue-on-skyride/293-165694695

For you scientists eavesdropping: chill factor, greenhouse effect, ridge vent

 

[DanBoris]

I feel that Disney is building the gondolas without A/C with a blatant attitude of "Yeah, it will be hot as hell, but you are just going to suck it up, aren't you, because you don't have a choice!" I mean, look at Soarin. It used to be an amazing ride, and now I've seen its standby wait time down to 10 minutes in the afternoon, just three weeks ago, thanks to Disney's downgrading it. In fact, Soarin often has less wait than Mission Space! Whoever has seen that coming? It's been a couple of years and are they repenting of their stupid decision and bringing back the old Soarin? Nope. It's with that attitude that they decided to build a gondola system in Florida to replace the buses.

It's not likely Disney is choosing not to get a common feature of the system just to save money. As has been discussed, AC in gondola is a difficult problem that's why there are only two systems in the world with AC. There are also other factors that have to be balanced, for example adding AC increases the weight of the cars and thus reduces capacity.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Recommended reading (warning: zombie):

https://www.krem.com/article/news/company-working-to-solve-heat-issue-on-skyride/293-165694695

That's important. I would expect that they improved things over the last four plus years.

 

[NotUrsula]

That's important. I would expect that they improved things over the last four plus years.

Perhaps just a little. This is from the current ride information page: https://my.spokanecity.org/riverfrontpark/attractions/skyride/

The elderly, infants, and those with medical conditions should use extreme caution during hot days. Additionally, the SkyRide may be closed during high winds or temperatures over 90 degrees. It is recommended in the summer to make the SkyRide an early activity as it often gets warm and the attraction closes for several hours until the cabins cool down.

So, apparently it used to get closed when the air temperature hit 85F, and now it has been changed to 90F ... on a system that hangs directly over a cold-water river that averages a temperature in the low 60s in the hottest part of the summer. Presumably, folks who live in Florida are a bit better able to tolerate hot temperatures than the average Washington State resident, but if the ride depends on tourists, what they are used to is what counts most. (The Spokane cars do move very slowly; the Skyliner cars are anticipated to move about 8X as fast once they leave the stations.) Also, FWIW, the elevation of Spokane, WA is 1,873 ft above sea level, compared to Lake Buena Vista's highest ground point of 102 ft. (The installations in Vietnam and Hong Kong are quite a bit higher than Spokane. The one in Singapore is only about 100 feet higher than Disney's, but is located on the coast.)

Based on the cabin design we have seen, the glass-enclosed Disney Skyliner cars ARE going to be warm for much of the year; we can pretty much bank on that. The salient question is, how warm will be warm enough to make a majority of guests avoid riding it? Only time and experience are going to provide the answer to that question.

 

[joelkfla]

"Recommended reading (warning: zombie):

https://www.krem.com/article/news/company-working-to-solve-heat-issue-on-skyride/293-165694695

For you scientists eavesdropping: chill factor, greenhouse effect, ridge vent

The news item is about a very different type of system. It's called a "pulsed" gondola lift. The cabins are permanently attached to the cable in groups of 2 or 3. Within each group, the cabins are only a few feet apart.

Neither the cabins nor the cable move continuously. As each group approaches a station, the cable and all the cabins slow down. When the entire group is within the station, the cable comes to a complete stop until the cabins in the station have been unloaded and loaded. Then the cable resumes slow motion until the cabins have cleared the station, and then resumes motion at full speed until the next group approaches the station. It's similar to the way a ferris wheel is loaded.

The effect is the cabins move a few dozen feet at full speed, then move maybe 10 feet at low speed, then come to a dead stop for several minutes, and then move again at slow speed. This is repeated over and over throughout the ride.

So here's why this doesn't compare to Disney's Skyliner:

1. While the cabins are stopped, there's no ventilation at all, and the temperature is free to rise.
2. While the cabins are moving slowly, ventilation is reduced.
3. The top speed is probably slower than Disney's Skyliner's.
4. Because 2 or 3 cabins are spaced closely together, even while traveling at full speed, the front cabin in the group would block some of the flow of air into the following cabins.

The Skyliner cabins will move continuously, at full speed when not in the stations, and will be spaced well apart. And though we don't know, it's quite possible that Doppelmayr has customized them to improve ventilation.

 

[NotUrsula]

Faster than Spokane? Oh, yes, definitely. The D-line model's top speed is 13.4 mph. Fast enough to fully compensate for the greenhouse effect created by the glass? Probably not so much. That's just a tad faster than the average adult will ride a bicycle on a flat road.

I drive a large vehicle with a cream-colored interior, and I prefer to turn off the A/C when it is cool enough to do that. My personal experience is that driving through residental areas at about 30 mph, with only cracked-open windows and the outside air vents open, I'm going to start sweating pretty quickly in the daytime unless the outside air temp is under 65F, just because of the warming effect of the sun through the window glass. (At night it's fine, but the sun makes a big difference.)

 

[Lewisc]

Will the time spent in a gondola without AC be more or less then the time spent waiting for a bus?

 

[scrappinginontario]

Will the time spent in a gondola without AC be more or less then the time spent waiting for a bus?

It is anticipated that it will be less waiting for a gondola as the gondolas will be moving constantly. That being said, it will depend on how many choose to take each mode of transportation and also the frequency of the buses.

I feel comparing buses to gondolas is a little like comparing apples to oranges as one moves constantly and another less often.

 

[joelkfla]

Faster than Spokane? Oh, yes, definitely. The D-line model's top speed is 13.4 mph. Fast enough to fully compensate for the greenhouse effect created by the glass? Probably not so much. That's just a tad faster than the average adult will ride a bicycle on a flat road.

I drive a large vehicle with a cream-colored interior, and I prefer to turn off the A/C when it is cool enough to do that. My personal experience is that driving through residental areas at about 30 mph, with only cracked-open windows and the outside air vents open, I'm going to start sweating pretty quickly in the daytime unless the outside air temp is under 65F, just because of the warming effect of the sun through the window glass. (At night it's fine, but the sun makes a big difference.)

Again, the Spokane Skyride cabins may spend about as much time sitting in the sun not moving at all as they do in motion, and a good part of the time in motion is at a couple of miles per hour. Their overheating problem is not very relevant to Disney Skyliner.

The surface of your car windows is parallel to the direction of motion, so there's not much oomph pushing air in through them. I would think the amount of fresh air your dash vents can supply is pretty small in relation to the volume of your car.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

There is a weight limit that CMs will need to monitor.

Really? Where did you read this? I was an avid alpine skier in my youth and early adult life, riding hundreds of different ski lifts (including several dozen different gondolas), and I was never once weighed.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

adding AC increases the weight of the cars and thus reduces capacity

I'm curious why it would reduce capacity. Can't added weight just be compensated for with a stronger cable and a more powerful drive motor?

 

[NotUrsula]

Again, the Spokane Skyride cabins may spend about as much time sitting in the sun not moving at all as they do in motion, and a good part of the time in motion is at a couple of miles per hour. Their overheating problem is not very relevant to Disney Skyliner.

Didn't say that it was comparable. I don't think it is, actually. However, it does illustrate that unanticipated climate issues can happen even in a relatively cool-climate location like Washington State. The central Florida summer climate is such that the likelihood of those cabins getting uncomfortably warm could not possibly have been overlooked, and in fact wasn't, based on what we've all read about Disney pushing Doppelmayr to reduce the maximum evacuation time for safety reasons. I can't quote a source, but I do seem to remember that Disney's representatives were concerned about the efficacy of the vents, but Garaventa insisted that passive ventilation would be sufficient. (As you know, I also feel that there presently are no truly comparable operational installations that can prove that out.)

The surface of your car windows is parallel to the direction of motion, so there's not much oomph pushing air in through them. I would think the amount of fresh air your dash vents can supply is pretty small in relation to the volume of your car.

The interior volume of the car is 142 sq. ft., and it actually has a total of 10 vents (6 in and under the dash, plus inboard and outboard vents facing the rear seats. It also has a moonroof. I'm thinking that you shouldn't be surprised that I like a vehicle with good airflow!) We're also talking about having it move about 2X as fast as the gondola would be, so I'm thinking that it's fairly equivalent for the front seats, at least.

I'm not one of those folks who believe that guests will frequently be getting heat-stroke on the gondolas and constantly needing medical assistance. I don't think it will be warm enough to make the average person ill at all, but I do think it has a greater than 50% chance of making the average American uncomfortably warm for some part of a summertime daylight ride. It's a drawback, that's all, but it conceivably *could* be a large enough drawback to force Disney to offer an alternative transit option during the warmer months. Only time and experience will tell us for sure.