Disney not as wheelchair friendly as I hoped

[RoseGold]

What do you mean “glass wall”?

FOP in particular could have done a lot more than just motorcycle seating. It could have had a special section with a glass wall, or bench seats, or theater style seats with a few effects, or strapped down wheelchairs, or something. A lot of the older, or more physically demanding rides, sure I get it. But this one seems like it would have been so easy to make accessible, maybe even cheaper to run because they don't have to maintain as many motorcycle seats.

Especially because the whole movie is about being disabled, and that ride is exactly the kind of thing that you would imagine would be profound to someone with physical limitations.

Similar rides elsewhere often do have some bench seats.

 

[jo-jo]

FOP in particular could have done a lot more than just motorcycle seating. It could have had a special section with a glass wall, or bench seats, or theater style seats with a few effects, or strapped down wheelchairs, or something. A lot of the older, or more physically demanding rides, sure I get it. But this one seems like it would have been so easy to make accessible, maybe even cheaper to run because they don't have to maintain as many motorcycle seats.

Especially because the whole movie is about being disabled, and that ride is exactly the kind of thing that you would imagine would be profound to someone with physical limitations.

Similar rides elsewhere often do have some bench seats.

Yes, I’d like to do the ride, but won’t leave DH waiting somewhere for an hour . DH isn’t able to bend enough to do the ride anymore.

 

[lanejudy]

Everything you see at WDW is beyond ADA requirements, and definitely "wheelchair friendly."

Accessible, yes; friendly maybe not so much. I agree that most everything at WDW meets or exceeds ADA minimum requirements. However "friendly" may lie in the eye of the beholder.

• Is it "friendly" to not have push buttons for all doors? If you are capable of opening the doors, maybe that's not an issue and you consider it friendly; to someone traveling solo or with hands/lap full, it may be unfriendly.
• Is it "friendly" to have so much cobblestones absent any alternative smooth pathway? I can't think of a single post in the past decade that said "give me more cobblestones, it love it bumpiness in my wheelchair."
• Is it "friendly" to require an alternate entrance, which often gets backed up significantly. Maybe if you don't mind using an alternate entrance it's no big deal to you and therefore "friendly" simply because the alternate entrance exists. However, I felt the exact opposite of "friendly" after waiting excessively long at Splash Mountain.
• Is it "friendly" to have very few accessible vehicles? Even if that's more accessible vehicles than other theme parks, it's still few compared to the number of rides at 4 theme parks. It may be understandable for some attractions built back in the 70s or 80s, however many lament the lack of accessible vehicles for some of the newest attractions built in the past decade.
• Is it "friendly" to have steep ramps to the monorail? I understand and accept the monorail ramps were built pre-ADA and therefore not required to meet ADA standards. That's an explanation, but it doesn't mean those ramps are "friendly" whether one is capable of manually propelling themselves up the ramp or not.

Some folks here are stuck on "friendly" and using it as a comparison to other locations. OP didn't compare to other locations. OP mentioned the difficulties they encountered that they hadn't anticipated; difficulties and challenges can definitely translate to "unfriendly." In hindsight, the OP realized their expectations weren't accurate and wants to make others in a similar situation aware so as not to repeat the OP's mistake. Thread title could easily have read "Lessons learned pushing a wheelchair at WDW."

Not asking for change I just wasn't aware of this stuff before the trip. And if it can help someone else expectations of wheelchair use than I will be happy.

THIS was the point of the thread...let's get back to it. I'm tired of the arguments about "friendly." I don't consider many of the posts on this thread to be "friendly" and I'd prefer we enter 2023 as more friendly and helpful, sharing experience with intent to help others rather than bickering over one word.

 

[SueM in MN]

What do you mean “glass wall”?

Disneyland’s submarine ride was not able to be retrofitted for wheelchair accessibility when the attraction was updated to a Nemo theme. The original subs included a spiral staircase to get to the floor of the sub for viewing.
Instead, they created an alternate viewing area, themed to look like a different type of vehicle. It has portholes for guests to look thru at a large screen that looks like they are underwater and shows all the scenes from the ride.
That is helpful for many types of disabilities, not only people using wheelchairs/mobility devices. I STILL remember having a full blown panic attack on the DL submarines when I was about 7. Claustrophobia on a sub is not fun!

 

[Her Dotness]

I certainly understand the OP's shock and surprise at how challenging it can be pushing someone in a wheelchair at WDW.

Despite being fairly familiar with pushing DH in malls when he used a manual, I hadn't realized how much unpleasantly bumpy pavement there is at WDW until I ran his powerchair across the Norway courtyard to where Akershus wants them parked. Holy Guacamole! My teeth were chattering. It was hideously bumpy. It'd also been several years since he used a manual to any extent, so my pusher services on occasion hadn't been necessary. I'd forgotten how watchful I had needed to be for pavement irregularities.

That gave me a far better understanding of why DH spends an hour or two napping in the afternoon at WDW. He explained that the focus needed to maneuver safely and how jarring that sort of pavement is wear him out.

A person really can't comprehend how difficult pushing a person in a chair will be at WDW until the reality strikes. Thus, I can empathize with the OP's dismay. And when it's a person unable to use an ECV safely, WDW becomes much less enjoyable. That would be disappointing and difficult to reconcile with one's hopes for a fun trip.

 

[Lilsia]

I certainly understand the OP's shock and surprise at how challenging it can be pushing someone in a wheelchair at WDW.

Despite being fairly familiar with doing that when DH used a manual, I hadn't realized how much unpleasantly bumpy pavement there is at WDW until I ran his powerchair across the Norway courtyard to where Akershus wants them parked. Holy Guacamole! My teeth were chattering. It was hideously bumpy. It'd also been several years since he used a manual to any extent, so my pusher services on occasion hadn't been necessary. I'd forgotten how watchful I had needed to be for pavement irregularities.

That gave me a far better understanding of why DH spends an hour or two napping in the afternoon at WDW. He explained that the focus needed to maneuver safely and how jarring that sort of pavement is wear him out.

A person really can't comprehend how difficult pushing a person in a chair will be at WDW until the reality strikes. Thus, I can empathize with the OP's dismay. And when it's a person unable to use an ECV safely, WDW becomes much less enjoyable. That would be disappointing and difficult to reconcile with one's hopes for a fun trip.

My family does not use mobility aids, but I have had issues with my feet for several years, mainly my plantar fasciitis will act up. And I can feel every single uneven pathway and hill. I can say that WDW has a lot of uneven terrain, especially in AK. Several years ago, I even commented to my husband about how horrible it would be to have to push someone in a wheelchair there. I don't think that this has a simple solution. It IS a theme park after all and theming is important. But more can be done to make things better. I also hate FOP queue. That hill is horrible for some of us even to stand on.

 

[ttintagel]

Yes, knowing in advance what difficulties we may face is so important to our enjoyment of the trip. Especially since a day at WDW can be so different from a day in the “real world” and can require a whole new problem-solving skill set. The ramps and inclines we’ve discussed here, while meeting or exceeding ADA requirements, are steeper than many of us deal with at home - and many of us may not even need wheelchairs full-time at home. It would have been helpful, rather than discouraging, for me to have read a discussions like this before the first time I attempted to use a manual wheelchair in the parks,

 

[oynk]

You really haven't lived until you are pushing a power chair with a bad battery, (that took almost 9 months to get it replaced), that died somewhere near the Japan pavilion. One of the reasons we got a power chair was because I could no longer push my daughter in a manual chair. Pushing a power chair, in manual mode, is its own special kind of hell. (While smiling the whole time, saying, "No, it's fine. No problem at all," because she feels bad enough as it is).

 

[SueM in MN]

You really haven't lived until you are pushing a power chair with a bad battery, (that took almost 9 months to get it replaced), that died somewhere near the Japan pavilion. One of the reasons we got a power chair was because I could no longer push my daughter in a manual chair. Pushing a power chair, in manual mode, is its own special kind of hell. (While smiling the whole time, saying, "No, it's fine. No problem at all," because she feels bad enough as it is).

I understand.
My daughter weighs a bit over 80 pounds. Her power wheelchair (with batteries) weighs about 430 pounds! It takes a lot of oomph to get it started if I have to push it, but once it’s going, it gets easier. And just hope it doesn’t need to be stopped!

 

[Meglen]

I understand.
My daughter weighs a bit over 80 pounds. Her power wheelchair (with batteries) weighs about 430 pounds! It takes a lot of oomph to get it started if I have to push it, but once it’s going, it gets easier. And just hope it doesn’t need to be stopped!

when the ecv we had broke the neutral lever was triping and locking.. so I had to pull the ecv up the rest of the monorail ramp... and onto the monorail.. was not fun

 

[maxiesmom]

My family does not use mobility aids, but I have had issues with my feet for several years, mainly my plantar fasciitis will act up. And I can feel every single uneven pathway and hill. I can say that WDW has a lot of uneven terrain, especially in AK. Several years ago, I even commented to my husband about how horrible it would be to have to push someone in a wheelchair there. I don't think that this has a simple solution. It IS a theme park after all and theming is important. But more can be done to make things better. I also hate FOP queue. That hill is horrible for some of us even to stand on.

It is pretty horrible to use a scooter at much of the Animal Kingdom. I like the themeing, and the way they want to make things as authentic as possible. But the shaking!!

 

[mamabunny]

I think the best thing to come from this thread is that we can now (as a community) begin to compile a list of “Don’t be surprised about…” for new/potential Guests who may be seeking information in the future.

So many of us (myself included) “grew up” at Disney World that we take the hills and valleys and patterned concrete for granted. It wasn’t until I had to use a mobility device myself that I really became aware of the topography at WDW. I remember being startled (both coming in and going out) by the slope of The Oasis at AK as you enter the Park. EPCOT was a revelation; my family would have described it as “flat” prior to my mobility device use, but I quickly realized how many elevation changes there are! MK has far more “hills” than you expect as well. Even HS has elevation changes. And DIsney Springs is not “flat” at all either.

I appreciate how much work goes in to making WDW *not* feel like they just bulldozed swamp, threw down some asphalt, and built a bunch of facades onto giant metal buildings… and that includes the inclines, hills, themed pavement and everything else. It’s all in the name of making the Magic that we return for, time and time again.

Where I wish that WDW would continue to do better is to first and foremost, include more of the mobility-impaired community in their planning, and to continue to take those needs into consideration as they update/refresh/rebuild attractions, rides, shows and infrastructure around the entire Resort. It would be HUGE for us to have a voice, an advocate in the room where it’s happening! I stand by what I have said for years: That *every* Disney Imagineer, Parks Manager and Guest Relations CM should have to spend a full 8 hour day in one of the Parks in a wheelchair or ECV.

Collectively, we have a voice, and we need to begin to speak out about the things that should be changed (like adding more accessible ride vehicles to every.single.ride, so that we don’t have to wait *even longer* once we get to the front of the line because there is only 1 ride car that can accommodate our needs) and finding ways to make *all* boat rides at WDW more accessible, as well as simply making 2 or 3 more standalone companion/HA restrooms throughout each Park and DIsney Springs. We don’t need a CM at every Resort bus stop, but we *do* need a button to press if there are mobility-device folks waiting for buses. Asking for a smooth pathway either adjacent to, or blended in to patterned concrete not only helps us, but little stroller kiddos too. There should absolutely be no ride or attraction where I cannot take my personal mobility device all the way to the ride vehicle, and ideally, no ride or attraction where I cannot participate because there are steps down into the vehicle and up to get back out. I should not have to miss out on the theming of a queue simply because I cannot walk, and I should not have to give up my personal device that replaces my legs to ride any ride.

All of those things just touch on mobility impairments; they don’t even begin to cover the needs of other types of (ADA covered) disabilities. Disney can, and should do better. We can help nudge them along by giving them constructive feedback. Let them know when you personally experience something - like that bone jarring pavement - not only where it is in the Park, but give them a (reasonable) solution as well. They cannot fix what we do not report!

 

[DisneyOma]

I appreciate how much work goes in to making WDW *not* feel like they just bulldozed swamp, threw down some asphalt, and built a bunch of facades onto giant metal buildings… and that includes the inclines, hills, themed pavement and everything else. It’s all in the name of making the Magic that we return for, time and time again.

They can't fix the elevation issues - as you mentioned, they bulldozed a swampy area of failing orange groves and have to deal with the water/rain/flooding issues. Some of the texture in the pavement also deals with water runoff, but I agree that there should be a smoother way to do it. The areas in AK that have texture to resemble rocky pathways could have a smoother section in the center, representing a worn-down part of the path, for instance. But the buildings have to be elevated to draw the water away from them in those fierce downpours. Having walked through Adventureland in ankle deep water 5 minutes into a deluge, I understand how quickly the rain can turn into a serious issue down there.

 

[SueM in MN]

They can't fix the elevation issues - as you mentioned, they bulldozed a swampy area of failing orange groves and have to deal with the water/rain/flooding issues. Some of the texture in the pavement also deals with water runoff, but I agree that there should be a smoother way to do it. The areas in AK that have texture to resemble rocky pathways could have a smoother section in the center, representing a worn-down part of the path, for instance. But the buildings have to be elevated to draw the water away from them in those fierce downpours. Having walked through Adventureland in ankle deep water 5 minutes into a deluge, I understand how quickly the rain can turn into a serious issue down there.

That is a good and very important point.
Some of the elevation changes are aesthetic, but many are functional necessities.

 

[mamabunny]

They can't fix the elevation issues - as you mentioned, they bulldozed a swampy area of failing orange groves and have to deal with the water/rain/flooding issues. Some of the texture in the pavement also deals with water runoff, but I agree that there should be a smoother way to do it. The areas in AK that have texture to resemble rocky pathways could have a smoother section in the center, representing a worn-down part of the path, for instance. But the buildings have to be elevated to draw the water away from them in those fierce downpours. Having walked through Adventureland in ankle deep water 5 minutes into a deluge, I understand how quickly the rain can turn into a serious issue down there.

That is a good and very important point.
Some of the elevation changes are aesthetic, but many are functional necessities.

I fully agree with both of you; as I said above, I both understand and appreciate that elevation changes are required, and I apologize if I was not clear about that.

But elevation changes (and how they are handled) is typically not my greatest issue at Disney World. My concerns are about other aspects of ”friendly design”, and how they should be incorporated, either by working with members of the wider disability community and/or by requiring their own internal staff to have regular “experience” days, where they are forced to try and use the Parks as disabled Guests do.

I am also concerned that we need to advocate ourselves to give direct, clear feedback about what works, and what does not - directly to Disney while we we are there, in the Parks. They cannot correct what they do not understand is “broken”.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

I fully agree with both of you; as I said above, I both understand and appreciate that elevation changes are required, and I apologize if I was not clear about that.

But elevation changes (and how they are handled) is typically not my greatest issue at Disney World. My concerns are about other aspects of ”friendly design”, and how they should be incorporated, either by working with members of the wider disability community and/or by requiring their own internal staff to have regular “experience” days, where they are forced to try and use the Parks as disabled Guests do.

I am also concerned that we need to advocate ourselves to give direct, clear feedback about what works, and what does not - directly to Disney while we we are there, in the Parks. They cannot correct what they do not understand is “broken”.

I have found it to be true about advocating for our selves even as a CM as most do not understand what we need or why something does not work for disabled

 

[iuki]

I disagree, there are other destinations that are more accommodating these days, although none are perfect of course, but many keep finding ways to be more accommodating to as many as possible. Some that come to mind are:
San Diego Zoo and Safari Park have built massive elevators and provides wheelchair shuttles around their parks to make them more accessible. They also offer sensory packs with various items (some you get to keep and some, like the noise canceling headphones you have to return) to help those with sensory issues. They also have designated quiet areas throughout the parks, have created self guided and initiated audio tours. They allow anyone that is disabled to bring their assistant free. With notice, they will also provide someone to assist people with certain disabilities around the parks (i.e. there are limits to this service) at no additional cost.

Silver Dollar City and Dollywood has introduced similar sensory packs, has a much easier to use DAS equivalent, etc.

SeaWorld marks all experiences with easy to understand ratings for those with various issues.

The list goes on and on and yes, I know Disney may be older than some of these places, but I don't buy age as an excuse. We have been to downtown San Juan Capistrano several times and honestly, DH finds it one of the easiest places to navigate in his ECV, this is a town that was started in 1776 and has managed to make things very accessible (again, not perfect) while maintaining its historical nature, so it is quite doable.

Good to know more places are becoming more accommodating.

 

[ttintagel]

I have found it to be true about advocating for our selves even as a CM as most do not understand what we need or why something does not work for disabled

Which is why it's so exhausting trying to get accommodation for disabilities that neither DAS nor an assistive device helps with. Imagine having that conversation at every single attraction instead of just once at Guest Relations or on an Internet chat. With many different CMs who have widely varying levels of understanding, knowledge, and prejudgment, or who are just plain too overworked these days to care as much as they normally would.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

Which is why it's so exhausting trying to get accommodation for disabilities that neither DAS nor an assistive device helps with. Imagine having that conversation at every single attraction instead of just once at Guest Relations or on an Internet chat. With many different CMs who have widely varying levels of understanding, knowledge, and prejudgment, or who are just plain too overworked these days to care as much as they normally would.

I have had to have chats with a few in my department why certain things do not help me as much as you would think and some do not get it and just reply with why we have a rule that they think should help and doesnt

 

[RoseGold]

Where I wish that WDW would continue to do better is to first and foremost, include more of the mobility-impaired community in their planning, and to continue to take those needs into consideration as they update/refresh/rebuild attractions, rides, shows and infrastructure around the entire Resort. It would be HUGE for us to have a voice, an advocate in the room where it’s happening! I stand by what I have said for years: That *every* Disney Imagineer, Parks Manager and Guest Relations CM should have to spend a full 8 hour day in one of the Parks in a wheelchair or ECV.

All you have to do is ride a scooter through the hallway at Riviera, and you'll see that isn't happening. And that is a brand new "luxury," ground up hotel opened in December 2019. Anyone with eyes at that time knew that Epcot was covered in scooters and Disney in general is covered in mobility devices.

We just did the RIV timeshare tour and had to reverse and pull over twice.

This is the kind of thing I expect from old or cheap hotels. Not brand new Disney.

RIV hallway: https://www.wdwforgrownups.com/sites/default/files/images/riviera-1bd-hall-carpet.png