Disney "Money Grab" and the future of Universal

[GatorChris]

If I'm the Universal Parks prez, I'm pretty stoked with the Genie+ coming out of Disney.

 

[New Mouse]

Universal has always had the chance to drop the hammer on Disney, I am surprised they never did. Now may be the perfect storm to truly win the war.

 

[tony67]

Universal has always had the chance to drop the hammer on Disney, I am surprised they never did. Now may be the perfect storm to truly win the war.

Im not sure Universal can ever win the war or really wants to.
I do think its a situation where its better to be Number 2 just nipping at the heels of Disney.
Let Disney advertise and draw in the people and do all the work.
This is what Radio Shack did for years - McDonalds did all the research on where to put stores and then Radio Shack would just put a store close to it. That worked well until the internet t came along.

One thing Disney has that Universal does not is flexibility if they need it.
They can offer Genie+ for free. They can Offer DDP for free.
They have a huge number of rooms and they charge a large amount for them and can offer large discounts.

Universal does have a limited number of rooms - even with the two new hotels.
Even with the new park and Hotel I'm not sure they have the space for these people.
They reall have no dining plan - they have tried - and they cant give away more Express Passes.
It's more likely they stop giving those away or they make it one ride per day and you can upgrade to unlimited.

Lastly Disney still has a lot of fanatical fans who just dont care and will pay whatever Micky wants.
I dont think Universal has anything close to that even with HP.

Disney still has people that are will to pay premium for mediocre food just because its in Disney.
People dont care what the food is like or will costs if its in a Space themed restaurant (I've been following that discussion on Space 220)
Disney still has folks that attack anyone who questions the mouse - not as many - but they are still here.
there are still a lot of people that will dismiss Universal out of hand - its a amusement park and somehow Disney is so much more.

 

[overdisney]

Universal will benefit from Disney constant greed, hopefully Universal will not follow Disney's greed. We will be new to universal as we are done with Disney

 

[Minerva Mouse]

there are still a lot of people that will dismiss Universal out of hand - its a amusement park and somehow Disney is so much more.

I've never understood this, sure Disney has the nostalgia factor for a larger majority, but the first time, I walked into IOA I was completely blown away. It's like the diehard Disney fans have Stockholm syndrome or something and are literally blind to anything else. It's bizarre.

Universal is amazing, they're not perfect (they're not as family friendly, or inclusive of all body sizes) but the experience is there. I think we're gonna see a switch for a few years. We took a Disney break before the shutdown, so we've been shut out now for 2 years, and I think that eventually most Disney folks (like me) will eventually go crawling back. Of course by then Epic will be opening, so maybe not, time will tell. But as the wife of a UOTM, I'm ecstatic that people are finally waking up and exploring other options.

 

[keishashadow]

Universal has always had the chance to drop the hammer on Disney, I am surprised they never did. Now may be the perfect storm to truly win the war.

U spent years marketing their parks to appeal to a different demographic than Disney: More thrill rides + HHN = older audience. Once HP came to town, by necessity, there was a subtle tweak to the mindset there, for better or worse. many ‘old-timers’ bemoan the shift-change as to dumbing things down a bit to appeal to a common denominator. not unexpected, it’s a business, makes perfect sense to try to expand their audience. Just try to stay true to your core missive, please

It's like the diehard Disney fans have Stockholm syndrome or something and are literally blind to anything else. It's bizarre.

There plenty of “diehard Disney fans” who love both parks & vice a versa with Universal fans. if the boards here are an apt microcosm of the guests, agree that Disney does to attract their share of what appears to often be an Uber-conservative element of the country. One that does appear to be a bit more inflexible as to willingness to experience new things in general.

But as the wife of a UOTM, I'm ecstatic that people are finally waking up and exploring other options.

thank him for his service . Know many folks that work in the industry who (pre pandemic), by necessity worked two or three jobs to make ends meet…often in competing parks. Was always nice to hear when they were finally able to secure a well-paying full-time gig

 

[KalamityJane]

We had APs to Universal starting in Jan 2020, and then didn’t get to go back due to Covid and having a new baby in there. I’ve been planning a 2 week long trip in Dec to WDW but all of this Genie+ and just the general devaluation of what Disney offers for the price has me rethinking about switching to UO. My only issue is that UO/IOA is not really great for the younger set (baby will be 1 in Dec), whereas there is just more for him to do at WDW.

That being said, my husband and older 3 kids would rather do Universal, so now I’m thinking of changing.

 

[JakeAZ]

Disney still has people that are will to pay premium for mediocre food just because its in Disney.

Crazy, but 100% true

People dont care what the food is like or will costs if its in a Space themed restaurant (I've been following that discussion on Space 220)

I've checked out this board too and it's pretty funny. While I do admit, the concept sounds cool, I wouldn't book a reservation until I see the food / pricing / reviews and especially the kids options

Disney still has folks that attack anyone who questions the mouse - not as many - but they are still here.

It's almost is if any Disney criticism is a challenge to them personally!

there are still a lot of people that will dismiss Universal out of hand - its a amusement park and somehow Disney is so much more.

I think it comes down to what people remember from their childhood. Universal wasn't much then. Disney has always been Disney. Disney tends to be romanticized, even though the business model of today is nothing like it was 5, 10, 20 years ago. It's the old frog in the pot of slowly heating water. Disney relies on this. People can complain all day and night, but if the parks and hotels stay full...nothing will change. In fact, it will keep getting more and more expensive.

 

[overdisney]

Crazy, but 100% true

I've checked out this board too and it's pretty funny. While I do admit, the concept sounds cool, I wouldn't book a reservation until I see the food / pricing / reviews and especially the kids options

It's almost is if any Disney criticism is a challenge to them personally!

I think it comes down to what people remember from their childhood. Universal wasn't much then. Disney has always been Disney. Disney tends to be romanticized, even though the business model of today is nothing like it was 5, 10, 20 years ago. It's the old frog in the pot of slowly heating water. Disney relies on this. People can complain all day and night, but if the parks and hotels stay full...nothing will change. In fact, it will keep getting more and more expensive.

Disney years ago was so much more now it's just an amusement park--build another roller coaster

 

[Amunet]

Originally we had 4 nights booked at Universal (Royal Pacific King) and 4 nights at WDW (All-star movies Standard) for early February 2022. After yet another devaluation of staying at Disney, we cancelled our 4 nights at Disney and replaced it with a 4 night Royal Caribbean cruise (under $800 for 2 in a Spacious Balcony cabin) with a 1 night, 1 park stay at WDW (same resort/room) and we saved hundreds of dollars by canceling the 4 nights at WDW.
Overall the price before canceling, not including food, transportation, pet boarding, etc., was about $3,500. After changing our vacation to 1 day WDW and cruise (Universal reservation is the same), the total is about $3,800, which includes all the fiddly extras like parking at all locations, pet boarding for 12 nights, round-trip gas estimates (was already going to drive down) ... pretty much everything but a food budget for our theme park days.
The only reason why we are even going 1 day at WDW is because I do like Epcot's festivals and we need a re-do since our last trip for the Festival of the Arts rained the entire time.

For the longest time, it was cheaper to do a few days or a week at Disney than the same at Universal but now, with all of Disney's price hikes and constant devaluation of onsite stays, Universal is now more affordable and much more of a value.
It really is a shame. Disney really shot themselves in the foot taking away Magical Express, free Fastpasses, and EMH to all. There is absolutely no benefit to staying onsite at Disney anymore.

 

[ClapYourHands]

We had APs to Universal starting in Jan 2020, and then didn’t get to go back due to Covid and having a new baby in there. I’ve been planning a 2 week long trip in Dec to WDW but all of this Genie+ and just the general devaluation of what Disney offers for the price has me rethinking about switching to UO. My only issue is that UO/IOA is not really great for the younger set (baby will be 1 in Dec), whereas there is just more for him to do at WDW.

That being said, my husband and older 3 kids would rather do Universal, so now I’m thinking of changing.

Maybe your decision would be easier for you if you change your mindset a little. There is honestly, not much for a baby to do at either WDW or UO. He's a baby. He's not going to enjoy rides, meeting characters, watching shows, etc. He won't remember them, and he won't care about them. From his perspective, a trip to UO or WDW is probably less enjoyable than a trip to your local playground where you push him in a baby swing.

The real question is which park is better for a FAMILY WITH a baby. Pros and cons to both.

WDW has more rides the whole family can go on together. You can all ride things like Haunted Mansion and Safari because there's no height requirement whereas at UO, there are very few rides you can take the baby on with you, so there's probably more splitting up involved.

Both parks have fantastic rides your older kids will definitely want to do that you cannot take the baby on. Both parks utilize rider swap, but in different ways. At UO, you will all go through the queue together, and just before boarding, the non-riding adult will take the baby to the child swap room, while the others ride, and then immediately switch off the child minder, while the older kids ride again with the second adult. At WDW, the adult with the baby is not allowed in the queue, but returns with the older kids and goes through the old FP queue afterwards. The UO way is a more efficient way of moving from ride to ride through the park, and allows the whole family to remain together, but everyone has to wait. The WDW way has the benefit of allowing the non-riding parent to window shop or something instead of waiting in the queue, but it slows down your touring plan because you have to meet up outside the ride to pass the baby before the second adult goes through the shorter queue. I've done rider swap at both, and can tell you that my older kids very much appreciate the chance to wait once but ride twice, but as the parent, I personally found WDW's process to be more cumbersome. I'd probably like WDW's process better if I had a toddler or preschooler because I'd use the time the others are in the queue to do a kiddie ride, but because my daughter was an 8-month-old at the time, there really wasn't anything to do that was of particular interest to her so I was just killing time.

Aside from rides, there are some play areas for kids at both UO and WDW. Depending on the mobility of your 1-year-old, he might really like the play areas, or he might not get anything at all out of them. If he does like them, I think you'll find more at UO than WDW (I don't think there's anywhere at HS for him to play).

Entertainment is something you can all do together. UO is mostly back to its pre-COVID line up, and WDW is getting back on track. You might want to do some research as to what is currently open at both parks to see what appeals to your family. Don't forget the non-show interactive elements. MK has sorcerers of the magic kingdom (with a Duck Tales adventure slated to open in world showcase at some point), while UO has the interactive HP windows and the Jurassic Park discovery center. UO has brought back its parade; WDW has periodic cavalcades you can all watch, though there should be a parade at WDW's Christmas party if you go to it when you're there in Dec.

Having baby means you might need more downtime than if you were there with just the big kids. Both parks offer nursing rooms for you to take a break and feed the baby. Being more compact, Universal has the edge in terms of being able to get back to the hotel quickly and easily. WDW's transportation is cumbersome unless you are staying at a monorail or crescent lake resort, and even then, you only have ease of transport with the associated parks. But at WDW you might not need as many breaks because you can wear the baby on some of the gentler rides.

But you also mention a 2-week trip, and with 4 parks, WDW has more to offer in sheer volume of rides and entertainment. I could easily spend a week at UO, but I think a two week trip there would have me looking for side trips like Kennedy Space Center. This could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your vacation goals.

 

[maverik85]

Maybe your decision would be easier for you if you change your mindset a little. There is honestly, not much for a baby to do at either WDW or UO. He's a baby. He's not going to enjoy rides, meeting characters, watching shows, etc. He won't remember them, and he won't care about them. From his perspective, a trip to UO or WDW is probably less enjoyable than a trip to your local playground where you push him in a baby swing.

The real question is which park is better for a FAMILY WITH a baby. Pros and cons to both.

WDW has more rides the whole family can go on together. You can all ride things like Haunted Mansion and Safari because there's no height requirement whereas at UO, there are very few rides you can take the baby on with you, so there's probably more splitting up involved.

Both parks have fantastic rides your older kids will definitely want to do that you cannot take the baby on. Both parks utilize rider swap, but in different ways. At UO, you will all go through the queue together, and just before boarding, the non-riding adult will take the baby to the child swap room, while the others ride, and then immediately switch off the child minder, while the older kids ride again with the second adult. At WDW, the adult with the baby is not allowed in the queue, but returns with the older kids and goes through the old FP queue afterwards. The UO way is a more efficient way of moving from ride to ride through the park, and allows the whole family to remain together, but everyone has to wait. The WDW way has the benefit of allowing the non-riding parent to window shop or something instead of waiting in the queue, but it slows down your touring plan because you have to meet up outside the ride to pass the baby before the second adult goes through the shorter queue. I've done rider swap at both, and can tell you that my older kids very much appreciate the chance to wait once but ride twice, but as the parent, I personally found WDW's process to be more cumbersome. I'd probably like WDW's process better if I had a toddler or preschooler because I'd use the time the others are in the queue to do a kiddie ride, but because my daughter was an 8-month-old at the time, there really wasn't anything to do that was of particular interest to her so I was just killing time.

Aside from rides, there are some play areas for kids at both UO and WDW. Depending on the mobility of your 1-year-old, he might really like the play areas, or he might not get anything at all out of them. If he does like them, I think you'll find more at UO than WDW (I don't think there's anywhere at HS for him to play).

Entertainment is something you can all do together. UO is mostly back to its pre-COVID line up, and WDW is getting back on track. You might want to do some research as to what is currently open at both parks to see what appeals to your family. Don't forget the non-show interactive elements. MK has sorcerers of the magic kingdom (with a Duck Tales adventure slated to open in world showcase at some point), while UO has the interactive HP windows and the Jurassic Park discovery center. UO has brought back its parade; WDW has periodic cavalcades you can all watch, though there should be a parade at WDW's Christmas party if you go to it when you're there in Dec.

Having baby means you might need more downtime than if you were there with just the big kids. Both parks offer nursing rooms for you to take a break and feed the baby. Being more compact, Universal has the edge in terms of being able to get back to the hotel quickly and easily. WDW's transportation is cumbersome unless you are staying at a monorail or crescent lake resort, and even then, you only have ease of transport with the associated parks. But at WDW you might not need as many breaks because you can wear the baby on some of the gentler rides.

But you also mention a 2-week trip, and with 4 parks, WDW has more to offer in sheer volume of rides and entertainment. I could easily spend a week at UO, but I think a two week trip there would have me looking for side trips like Kennedy Space Center. This could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your vacation goals.

I agree fully with this. I would focus more on what the family as a whole outside the baby will find more enjoyable. If you're taking the baby can factor what is easier with them, but as stated they won't remember anything of the trip, so I'd focus more on the desires of everyone else involved.
My family took a trip to Disney World when I was 1 and they left me at home with family. Made the trip much less cumbersome for them not having to deal with a child and I didn't know the difference or remember what I wouldn't have missed out on. My older sister that went barely even remembers that trip.

 

[Monykalyn]

Maybe your decision would be easier for you if you change your mindset a little. There is honestly, not much for a baby to do at either WDW or UO

This is a great GREAT comparison of the two!

 

[SPJoeG]

This is a really great thread and something that has been on my mind as we have an upcoming trip to UOR over the Thanksgiving Holiday. Note that my perspective is a bit different than I think most people here as we only visit about every couple of years (more about this below).

When we booked the Thanksgiving trip we were open to do a day at WDW, and were very interested in attending a Christmas event. My Wife was pushing harder for this than anyone, but I'm the one who does the planning and keeps up on things. I was expecting a high price tag for the Christmas event but when I saw the ticket price for this years event was going to be almost $1k for a family of 4 it was the first time I thought it's just not worth it to us. When I told my DW she was a bit disappointed, but agreed that it was just more than we were willing to spend for one night.

That's my Disney costs too much story... I understand the frustration on the part people making multiple trips a year or even annual trips, but Disney is not grabbing your money, they are making business decisions and you still get to decide as consumer what you want to do with your money.

My family consists of me, my wife our 11yo twins, and we have been joined for parts of our two WDW trips by my parents who are in their 70's. My parents did not join us when we stayed at Cabana Bay, and my Mother is a huge HP fan... So while a part of our decision to choose UOR over WDW in this case was HP and not financial, another part was financial in that I found the value of Cabana Bay literally unrivaled in terms of accommodations for a family vacation when we stayed there in March of 2017. Growing up on 2 of our 3 family trips to WDW I stayed with my parents and sister at the poly... The last trip back I did a split stay including a few nights at the poly... Truly a spectacular resort, but I they didn't even have a gym and I had to use the one at the GF which was on the other side of where I was staying and it couldn't even hold a candle to the Jack LaLanne gym.

I really want to see Galaxy's Edge but we'll probably do that when we take our SoCal trip next summer. After that I'd like to do one more trip to WDW with the kids before they turn 18, but we will be more likely to return to UOR in the interim to see EU and the nintendo themed rides.

 

[crazymomof4]

Ha: been on these forums a long time. I've seen this movie before. Thousands will complain, raise their fists high, state emphatically that they are "done"...this is the "last straw"... aaaand they'll be posting excitedly about their next trip before long.

WDW knows that. Their senior mgmt team is probably laughing hysterically every time the forums erupt with outrage and indignation.

IDK, Ive been around quite a while as well and this really feels different - time will tell but much of the blind devotion to Disney is gone IMO

I've been going to WDW since 1987 and on DisBoards since 2003 and I've never seen this level of discontent. And it's not just here, it's in just about every comment, under every article about Genie+. The complaining is different. It seems to be more of a sincere, "I wish it wasn't like this, I truly love you, but I think it's time I see other people".
Someone said it well recently, "the spell has been broken".
People are actually MAKING PLANS for where to go instead of Disney Parks!
I know we are! We are obligated to take this Oct trip but since Aug 18th, I've been browsing Universal Resort hotels, looking at National Parks trips (both near home and far away) and even found a GREAT, upscale resort just 2.5 hours drive from home! Fabulous vistas surround, Deluxe level rooms, wonderfully themed pools, golfing for my guys, antique shops and hiking trails for DD and I. I'm thrilled to have found it! I'd never have known about that if not for the Genie announcement! It ain't cheap, but everyone in my family is ready to throw our "big vaca" money at it! + no shelling out for airfare, transport to/from airport, car rental, parking fees, park tickets, Genie, IA$. This might be our *new* Disney!
This is no short-lived-hissy-fit for us, and I suspect it's not for others as well.

 

[maverik85]

I've been going to WDW since 1987 and on DisBoards since 2003 and I've never seen this level of discontent. And it's not just here, it's in just about every comment, under every article about Genie+. The complaining is different. It seems to be more of a sincere, "I wish it wasn't like this, I truly love you, but I think it's time I see other people".
Someone said it well recently, "the spell has been broken".
People are actually MAKING PLANS for where to go instead of Disney Parks!
I know we are! We are obligated to take this Oct trip but since Aug 18th, I've been browsing Universal Resort hotels, looking at National Parks trips (both near home and far away) and even found a GREAT, upscale resort just 2.5 hours drive from home! Fabulous vistas surround, Deluxe level rooms, wonderfully themed pools, golfing for my guys, antique shops and hiking trails for DD and I. I'm thrilled to have found it! I'd never have known about that if not for the Genie announcement! It ain't cheap, but everyone in my family is ready to throw our "big vaca" money at it! + no shelling out for airfare, transport to/from airport, car rental, parking fees, park tickets, Genie, IA$. This might be our *new* Disney!
This is no short-lived-hissy-fit for us, and I suspect it's not for others as well.

The complaints do feel a bit different compared to in the past as mentioned and I think more people will actually turn away this time versus being all talk. But I am still curious to see how much of an impact overall it will have on them. There still seems to be plenty willing and able to pay, and if there attendance only drops slightly it might make for more satisfied guests there boosting their service ratings while maintaining the cash flow. So while it seems like a big negative to many of us it could actually be a positive to them, but it will depend on how much visitors they really lose, or how less frequently some that would go yearly or multiple times will go. I hope they will look at the closing gap between them and Universal more closely than just their own numbers to help push them to continue to be more competitive and up their own game and offerings.

 

[crazymomof4]

The complaints do feel a bit different compared to in the past as mentioned and I think more people will actually turn away this time versus being all talk. But I am still curious to see how much of an impact overall it will have on them. There still seems to be plenty willing and able to pay, and if there attendance only drops slightly it might make for more satisfied guests there boosting their service ratings while maintaining the cash flow. So while it seems like a big negative to many of us it could actually be a positive to them, but it will depend on how much visitors they really lose, or how less frequently some that would go yearly or multiple times will go. I hope they will look at the closing gap between them and Universal more closely than just their own numbers to help push them to continue to be more competitive and up their own game and offerings.

My thinking exactly. Lower crowds could make for more satisfied guests but working against that "satisfaction" is the ever increasing price hikes and "extra ticket" items at every turn, decreasing cleanliness in the parks, less "free" park experiences like live streetmousphere type entertainment, etc.
I think Disney thinks it can still be profitable off the "one and done" guests. Maybe they can. Time will tell. But I plan on having a great time spending the gobs of $ that I used to spend on WDW vaca's on other destinations and seeing how much BANG! I can get for my many bucks. When or IF Disney gets it's head screwed on ...... I might be back.

 

[Aaron Heitmeyer]

When people say its about the value, I completely agree.
Family of 5 and DVC owners who has historically averaged a trip to WDW 1-2 times a year for the past 10. We've always had supplemental beach, ski, etc. vacations but our Orlando trips were devoted to Disney.
- Historically our trips would go in waves... we wouldn't go for 18 months but then we would go 4 times in 12 months to maximize an annual pass.
- Most of our trips would be 9-10 days to maximize the price/day staying onsite to utilize the 60 FP+ window. Universal was always a consideration, but adding the 5th, 6th, 7th day to our park tickets was valued higher than 1-2 days at Universal.
- We would always add the park hopper and water park options

- We would jump on opportunities for free Dining and Bounceback

Then COVID-19 hit and changed the value equation. With ticket pricing remaining the same, Disney removed a lot of the resort/park amenities so I took a wait and see approach.
- In December we turned our Orlando 10-day trip into a Universal centered trip and upgraded our park tickets to Universal Orlando Premier AP's. As part of the trip we had DVC points to use so we did a couple nights at Grand Floridian. Our family are huge Disney fans and we stayed at the gates of MK and never entered a WDW park.
- We returned to Orlando in March and again centered around UO. We again stayed a few nights at Riviera to use our DVC points and this time we only did one park day at Hollywood Studios to experience Galaxy's Edge. We experienced Volcano Bay for the first time and kids loved it and went back multiple times in our trip.

Planning future trips and the loss off onsite perks I believe is their biggest mistake of my view on devaluation. Our next Orlando trip is planned for Universal staying at Hard Rock for the express passes and utilizing the annual pass. Having unlimited express pass for a family of 5, there is nothing at Disney that will compare to that value.

How my view of value will evolve in the next several years is TBD but it has made a seismic shift away for WDW.
Disney has my heart due to the fond family memories, but they're losing part of my wallet.

 

[Magical2017]

This is actually my concern.....

Dining at the food court type venues was an issue over Memorial Day weekend. We had better luck with City Walk restaurants (had reservations) and dining at places in the park at Mythos (also with reservations). If you want to be spontaneous, you will stand in line unless you eat at off-peak times. We are going back to Universal in January because the kids like it better than Disney now.

Tip: If you want butterbeer, just use mobile ordering at The Three Broomsticks. When you go inside, just let them know you have a mobile order. It was much faster than standing in the butterbeer lines, and I had a butterbeer every day!

 

[Going to WDW]

I think the big flaw with relying on the "one and done crowd" is that they aren't loyal --- something shinier comes along, another pandemic/security issue happens and those are the first bailers.... You alienate the core guest and you have no resiliency when the next shock hits.... it's a strategy but a very short-sighted one. I guess that is the Disney-view of things now. I guess time will tell if it works for them.