Disney apologizes for cheer routine

[tzolkin]

I am shocked that a Peter Pan discussion has not morphed from this here.

I think one person mentioned it in this thread. We did have a discussion about it a few months ago on the Dis (whenever the "parental guidance" labels were added to Disney+ for PP and Dumbo)

Our local high school are the “raiders” I had to look up the mascot: surprisingly it’s a pirate!

I went to a school that was previously "Red Raiders", dropped the "red" and changed their mascot from an Indian to a pirate.

 

[nw6675]

I think one person mentioned it in this thread. We did have a discussion about it a few months ago on the Dis (whenever the "parental guidance" labels were added to Disney+ for PP and Dumbo)


I went to a school that was previously "Red Raiders", dropped the "red" and changed their mascot from an Indian to a pirate.

Sorry, I was not implying Peter Pan had not been discussed on the Dis. I have participated over the years in several of them. I was just surprised it had not become more of an issue stemming from the performance in question.

 

[Boopuff]

So I'm all about researching. Went on the Port Neches Grove High School FB page. Wow. The people on there truly do not understand what's going on. Talk about head-in-the-sand mentality. It's a fun read (!)

 

[monsterkitty]

Colorado now has a law that does not allow schools in using Indigenous American names, mascots, symbols or imagery. Schools that still use these have until June 1, 2022 to change their names, imagery, mascots or symbols or they will be fined.

There are exceptions to the law, such as if the school has an agreement with a federally recognized tribe to use the name or mascot. For example, my former high school was the Warriors and we had an agreement with a local, federally recognized tribe to use the Native American head for our mascot. A member of the tribe actually designed and drew the mascot and image. However, when the school was rebuilt and two high school were combined into one, the community voted to change the name out of recognition and respect for Indigenous Americans.

There are still 12 schools that have not changed. Some are citing the cost in having to purchase new uniforms and redo gym floors, etc. However, there are grants to help with these costs. Most of the schools who have not changed did not apply for the grants.

 

[BlueStarryHat]

It just seems to me that people get a pass when the offensive stereotype is of an American Indian (I looked up how to address our indigenous peoples as a group, such as African-American, Caucasian, and found that many prefer to be called this, so it's what I'm using for now.) You see it every Halloween when the 'Indian' costumes and plastic tomahawks come out. It's like American Indians are the last ethnic group in the US to get respect shown to them for their traditions. There are good people out there who would NEVER even consider dressing up in, say, blackface for Halloween, but will happily stain their faces red and wear an 'Indian' costume. Do people really not see that the offense is the same?

 

[goofyernmost]

I absolutely did not contradict myself. I said repeatedly that there is nothing wrong with the word "Indian", but that it (nor any other racial group) should never be used as a sports mascot.

Using a race as a mascot is absolutely not "recognizing them in a positive manner". It's the exact opposite. It's dehumanizing. There's really no "respectful" way to do it. What culture exactly are stereotypical Indian mascots "keeping alive"? You do realize that there are 574 federally recognized tribes-- all with completely different languages, traditions, clothing, etc.

Perhaps you are actually native, but I really have a hard time believing that you're actually involved with your culture and heritage yet seem to have no idea why it's wrong to use native stereotypes as mascots. This is not something that white people "with no dog in this race" are telling native people how they should feel. This has been a controversy that native people themselves have been actively trying to remove from schools for well over 50 years. I have been immersed in native culture my whole life, have a degree in Native American studies, and have worked with countless native artists over the years. Absolutely no one I know thinks Indian mascots are a positive, respectful way of keeping culture alive. Many have protested them, and some have even written books against them.

I object to mascots that use a cartoonish manner by depiction in disrespective costume or display. Naming a team or a school with the word Indian is not offensive by itself, the way the people act in depicting that name are the problem. My argument was that the band should have been rejected because of their name alone. That is really the same as judging someone by the color of their skin as far as I am concerned. They were given a chance to represent themselves respectfully and they did not because they went rogue and to have not given them a chance would have been as bad as what they did.

I'm tired of explaining the same thing over and over, so put in what you want I'm done trying to penetrate the walls.

 

[Kennywood]

Talk of banning the school from ever playing at WDW again reminds me of when The Doors appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show.

The Doors were to perform "Light My Fire". Because of the suggestive implications of the lyrics, Ed Sullivan told them that they would need to alter the lyrics. Jim Morrison being Jim Morrison proceeded to sing the song without altering the lyrics. This was on live TV.

Ed Sullivan was furious. He told Morrison that they would never play on The Ed Sullivan Show again.

Morrison's reply? "We just did."

I doubt if the school is worried about not appearing at WDW again.

 

[mjkacmom]

I object to mascots that use a cartoonish manner by depiction in disrespective costume or display. Naming a team or a school with the word Indian is not offensive by itself, the way the people act in depicting that name are the problem. My argument was that the band should have been rejected because of their name alone. That is really the same as judging someone by the color of their skin as far as I am concerned. They were given a chance to represent themselves respectfully and they did not because they went rogue and to have not given them a chance would have been as bad as what they did.

I'm tired of explaining the same thing over and over, so put in what you want I'm done trying to penetrate the walls.

Is there a large population of American Indians at that school celebrating their history?

 

[Jennasis]

Stick to naming your sports teams after animals...sharks, bears, wildcats, lions, tigers, marlins, stingrays, hornets etc.

 

[momz]

That's what I've heard athletes from Indiana University referred to as. And yes, they're from Indiana, but so are Purdue athletes, Notre Dame athletes, Ball State, and probably dozens of others.

I'm a Hoosier and I never attended Indiana University. A Hoosier, while having been adopted by IU as their "mascot", is a term used to refer to a person who lives in Indiana...anywhere in the states.

 

[sam_gordon]

I'm a Hoosier and I never attended Indiana University. A Hoosier, while having been adopted by IU as their "mascot", is a term used to refer to a person who lives in Indiana...anywhere in the states.

OK. So am I (at least formerly). PP said "Hoosier" isn't a mascot. While true, it IS the name IU athletes are called. So it depends on the context on how you use the word. Hmmm...

 

[robinb]

I doubt if the school is worried about not appearing at WDW again.

According to this thread (1) they have already performed at WDW a number of times, (2) many parents and supporters were there to see the band and the drill team perform and (3) those parents and supporters wore special shirts with Mickey in a Native American headdress in the school colors.

That doesn't sound like a group that doesn't care about appearing at WDW again. Just the opposite. All of that indicates a group that thoroughly enjoys going to WDW and marching down Main Street.

 

[Colleen27]

Awareness of the inappropriate use of Native Americans as mascots has been around long enough that anyone who hasn’t changed their offensive mascots by this point is doing so as an act of defiance. That school’s administration, the cheer coach, and the choreographer (if they have one) are all certainly aware of the controversy surrounding their mascot and I fully believe the girls are as well (though I don’t expect teens to make great decisions when they’re surrounded by adults who don’t make good decisions themselves).

As if the words to the cheer weren’t bad enough, the choreography was filled with as many stereotypes as they could cram in there — the clunky attempt to synchronize native dances, the hand over the mouth… yikes. The whole routine, top to bottom, was built on Native American stereotypes. The fact that they conveniently performed a different, completely inoffensive routine on their submission video before quietly switching to this last minute tells me they were intentionally trying to get away with it, which means I have absolutely zero sympathy for any of them. Disney should permanently ban the school from ever performing there again.

Yeah, this. And as far as the deliberate defiance... this school has a "spirit wall" pictured in some of the news articles that uses a totem pole and the words "Welcome to the Reservation" (which is apparently what they call their campus/stadium). A quick Google tells me it is not some long-standing tradition that pre-dates modern attitudes about using racial identity as mascot but rather a project that the district undertook in 2016. So yeah, they know it is offensive and just plain don't care.

 

[momz]

I am descended from Native American ancestry. The specific tribe was Tihanama in the North Carolina/Tennessee area. The tribe assimilated in with the white settlers and over generations the traditions have been lost. My white ancestor had the last name of Redwine. He married a woman who was the daughter of the chief (I don't remember the daughter's name...the chief's was called Whitefeather by the settlers). Anyway, this Redwine couple had many children who were raised as native, but they had blonde hair and blue eyes. They and descendants have been called the "Redwine Indians". I carry the hair and eyes, but there's nothing left of the culture in my upbringing. It's a shame. Additionally, there's no tribe anymore either.

Concerning Native Americans as mascots. I don't claim the right to an opinion. But i'm going to give mine anyway... I think the mannerisms and dress of these people contributes to the loss of Native American culture. It is a caricature. Still, having lost any claim to my roots, it is not my battle to wage. I would love to learn more about my ancestors culture some day.

 

[monsterkitty]

Imagine being a student who is a descendent of an Indigenous American and walking into the football stadium, gymnasium, or other sporting venue of a school that supports using a tomahawk chop or mimics what they believe to be actions by Indigenous people.

Indigenous Americans already have one of the highest suicide rates in the country. The behaviors of this school, and I'm sure there are others, perpetuate the stereotypical images of the Indigenous Americans culture can be incredibly harmful at any age.

This school is making fun of a group of people who were forcefully removed from their lands and placed on reservations that were often in an environment and climate they did not know.

Can you imagine if the school would have marched down Main Street with blackface? Is there really a difference between the hateful and hurtful actions of either racist behavior?

 

[tcufrog]

I have never heard an (Asian) Indian person care.

My DH is Indian and he thinks it's stupid and laughs at people who do it. He thinks they're idiots who aren't smart enough to tell the difference between Native Americans and Indians. Our kids think it's dumb and find it offensive as do many Indians I know.

 

[Redart59]

It just seems to me that people get a pass when the offensive stereotype is of an American Indian (I looked up how to address our indigenous peoples as a group, such as African-American, Caucasian, and found that many prefer to be called this, so it's what I'm using for now.) You see it every Halloween when the 'Indian' costumes and plastic tomahawks come out. It's like American Indians are the last ethnic group in the US to get respect shown to them for their traditions. There are good people out there who would NEVER even consider dressing up in, say, blackface for Halloween, but will happily stain their faces red and wear an 'Indian' costume. Do people really not see that the offense is the same?

I’m not sure if black face was a well known term when I was growing up but I clearly remember kids in middle school dressing up as their favorite black singers/actors for Halloween. it just wasn’t considered a bad thing to do. I don’t believe these were bad kids or bad parents for allowing it. Social norms change. If I had to guess, big stores like Walmart , target , Amazon ect.. will not carry “Indian” costumes anymore.

 

[tzolkin]

My DH is Indian and he thinks it's stupid and laughs at people who do it. He thinks they're idiots who aren't smart enough to tell the difference between Native Americans and Indians. Our kids think it's dumb and find it offensive as do many Indians I know.

That seems rather rude and immature of your husband. And it sounds like your kids’ opinions have been influenced by his. I guess I’ll have to ask some of my Indian friends. None have ever laughed at people or given any indication that they were offended by native people using the term Indian.

Using the term has nothing to do with being “too stupid to know the difference.” A large number of indigenous people self-identify as “Indian” and have for centuries. “American Indian” is a currently accepted academic term. Even the Smithsonian is named “National Museum of the American Indian”. Certainly, native people themselves and scholars “know the difference” between people from India and people indigenous to the Americas.

 

[Turn the Page]

I live in a small town with a sizeable and active local tribe. Our high school mascot is not named after the tribe but the logo was an Indian brave profile. I believe at some point in the 80's or so the school worked with the local tribe to design the logo and it was approved but things change and it is no longer considered ok which is fine.

However, several years ago the school passed a millage to fund a new football stadium. The very last year the team was using the old stadium a tribal member, one tribal member, allegedly drove by the stadium, saw that it said "Home of the Fighting X" next to a logo of an Indian brave head and called the administration to complain that it depicted Native Americans as bloodthirsty savages and the school painted over the word fighting on the stadium. The resulting outcry over this was mindboggling. There were sit in protests, people spray painted the word fighting back on the stadium (again, the stadium that was to be used for a single season more), people took time off work to coordinate the fight, and there was a facebook page made in support of returning the word fighting back on the stadium that garnered 65,000 likes.......in a town with 7,000 residents.

To this day I cannot bring myself to give a rats patootie whether or not the stadium has the term fighting on it and I think people have way too much time on their hands.

But, all that to say, we went through all that over the word fighting on the stadium and I cannot fathom how this school has gotten away with not only the mascot name but the headdresses, the outfits, the dance, and the chant for so long.

 

[Turn the Page]

Yeah, this. And as far as the deliberate defiance... this school has a "spirit wall" pictured in some of the news articles that uses a totem pole and the words "Welcome to the Reservation" (which is apparently what they call their campus/stadium). A quick Google tells me it is not some long-standing tradition that pre-dates modern attitudes about using racial identity as mascot but rather a project that the district undertook in 2016. So yeah, they know it is offensive and just plain don't care.

Ok, so they have a plains style headdress paired with a totem pole from the Pacific Northwest? So they aren't claiming any particular tribe as their mascot just Native Americans in general I suppose? Somehow that seems worse to me.