Defunding The Police

[seashoreCM]

There is a bunch of folks going around advocating cutting the police budget in cities and towns. Why? Because those folks want to be/become the police.

How many of you read in history class or elsewhere about medallions that folks put on the fronts of their homes showing that they subscribed to a/the fire department? If a fire alarm was called into a different company (or the only company) and the firefighters did not see their medallion (or any medallion) they would go back to their station or, worse, stand and watch the fire burn.

A similar subscription mechanism might evolve for the police tomorrow.

 

[e_yerger]

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/nyregion/camden-turns-around-with-new-police-force.html

 

[HeatherC]

I just wonder how people will feel when they dial 911 in an emergency and no one answers. If people think our cities are in trouble now, just wait and see what they will be like when the gangs, drugs, violent crime, murders, robberies, rapes, burglaries, assaults, etc are allowed to run rampant.

 

[rotlex]

This is a very scary proposition to me. It also depends on where you read your information regarding "defunding" the police. In some areas, they want to keep the police but move funding to community help\assistance areas etc. In other areas, they want to get rid of the police entirely. Honestly, this all sounds like something out of a bad movie to me. I mean, what could go wrong?

 

[siren0119]

Defund does not mean dismantle. It means funneling more of the budget into community supports instead of blunt force training and resources. It SOUNDS good to say that cutting/reallocating law enforcement budgets would result in higher crime, but it's really important to look at data and not rely on feelings.

The police chief in my hometown has been essentially defunding his department for the last 6 years. More money was spent on de-escalation training, community crisis resources, and other crisis supports. In the last 6 years, arrests in town were down 50%, and domestic violence and opioid related incidents were down 25% and 32% respectively. Not because there wasn't anyone to handle the incidents, but because he believes strongly in addressing the roots of crimes so they don't happen in the first place. And the data is supporting his method.

 

[AnnaS]

I have been trying to wrap my head around this - what does it mean? Will they have volunteers policing the cities? I need to understand this a little more. Will everyone at home be protecting themselves? I will do some research this morning. Trying not to watch too much tv/news.

(the last two posts - sort of explains it a little) - the popped up after my post? I did not see it) - no biggie. Thank you)

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Camden NJ did it. I grew up in Camden when it was murder capital USA, when the mayor went to jail for being involved in a huge drug trafficking ring plus so much more. This change has been positive for the community.



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...den-new-jersey-reformed-its-police-department
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5601990

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I hope those links work. They’re showing up weird for me.

 

[JimMIA]

9 of the 12 members of the Minneapolis City Council (a veto-proof majority) have pledged to defund and disband the Minneapolis Police Department. They say they will replace it with some kind of "transformative community-based model.'

It's not clear what the "model" is, but it doesn't involve police in any form. They have pledged to completely eliminate the police department -- no police, period.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/07/us/george-floyd-protests-sunday/index.html
There is a world of difference between no police and bringing a reputable police department to replace a corrupt police department -- like what was done in Camden and many other places. Replacing one with another is nothing new, but that is not what the folks in Minneapolis are talking about at all.

Personally, I think this is just one more group of politicians grandstanding -- and that in the end they will do nothing.

But it will be interesting to see if they are really willing to put their citizens where their mouths are.

 

[VandVsmama]

This is one of the dumbest ideas I’ve heard in a long time.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I read that if they dismantle the police force in Minneapolis they will just turn it over to the sheriffs department. Is that any better?

 

[ronandannette]

This is one of the dumbest ideas I’ve heard in a long time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray-Hill_riot
This is a long read but interesting if you want a glimpse of the possibilities. In 1968, amidst a time of extreme social unrest not unlike what your country is experiencing now, the city police in one of Canada’s largest population centres went on strike. Lawlessness ensued instantly. Within 16 hours the violence and victimization was so extreme that it took provincial police, the RCMP and the military to restore order. The details are quite fascinating but this commentary is it in a nutshell:

"As a young teenager in proudly peaceable Canada during the romantic 1960s, I was a true believer in Bakunin's anarchism. I laughed off my parents' argument that if the government ever laid down its arms all hell would break loose. Our competing predictions were put to the test at 8:00 a.m. on October 7, 1969, when the Montreal police went on strike. By 11:20 am, the first bank was robbed. By noon, most of the downtown stores were closed because of looting. Within a few more hours, taxi drivers burned down the garage of a limousine service that competed with them for airport customers, a rooftop sniper killed a provincial police officer, rioters broke into several hotels and restaurants, and a doctor slew a burglar in his suburban home. By the end of the day, six banks had been robbed, a hundred shops had been looted, twelve fires had been set, forty carloads of storefront glass had been broken, and three million dollars in property damage had been inflicted, before city authorities had to call in the army and, of course, the Mounties to restore order. This decisive empirical test left my politics in tatters (and offered a foretaste of life as a scientist)."[16]

 

[JimMIA]

I read that if they dismantle the police force in Minneapolis they will just turn it over to the sheriffs department. Is that any better?

How is it any different? Still police, just a different badge and probably some additional constitutional powers.

 

[skyblue17]

I don't believe removing police entirely will ever happen, and I don't think (as of now) that it should.

However, the idea behind defunding police departments IS one that I stand behind, in that I don't believe that the police are the most qualified or best resources to handle all of the situations that they are often called to. I think every community would be better if more resources went toward mental health initiatives, opportunities for low income families, community outreach, etc. The reform may not be possible within the system of law enforcement, as we've basically seen this week, but it is possible to create a community that will need law enforcement less if more and better attention is paid to the underlying issues. Specialized departments that can handle things like de-escalation, working with the homeless in a way that doesn't vilify or threaten their dignity, being a resource for victims of domestic abuse, etc. There is a role for law enforcement in the community, but the idea that every cop is well-rounded enough to be the best person available to handle every kind of issue that pops up in a community is and never has been realistic. Why not address that and create a better system?

 

[lilypgirl]

If we are going to start defunding things can we please start with the USPS ?They are literally the most inefficient poorly run agency known to man.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

If we are going to start defunding things can we please start with the USPS ?They are literally the most inefficient poorly run agency known to man.

Maybe the USPS would be more efficient if the US Government would revoke the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act. That would remove price caps on first-class mail, and remove the need to have a 50-year slush fund for retiree medical insurance.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

The messaging on this has been terrible and it seems every person I talk to has a different definition of what "defund/disband/abolish" means. From what I have gathered it's basically massive reform but they don't want to use "reform" as a title because it's only resulted in minor changes in the past. I'm taking a wait and see approach before judging either way because it's obvious we're never going to go without a police force in some sense.

If we are going to start defunding things can we please start with the USPS ?They are literally the most inefficient poorly run agency known to man.

I think you might want to look into that deeper. They're basically fighting a fight with both hands behind their back thanks to Congress. Start with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Accountability_and_Enhancement_Act

 

[mrs. magoo]

Those you want to reform funding and change the police force need to use a different word. Defunding means to take away money that would result in no police force. I have brother who is a police officer who works exclusively with child abuse cases. He works with social workers closely but he is the one who is in charge of going to court interviewing people and arresting people. It a job that not many people who want to do. He stands up for kids who do not have a voice. Many of kids are LGBT kids who are abused by their parents. He has been very busy during the shut down.

I am also an educator in the inner city and I do believe that way too much money is spent on the police department. I think that cities should look closely at their budgets and invest money into a education and community resources. After reading about Minneapolis it really sounds like they do not have a plan at all. And when pressed about what kind of community services they would like to see most do not have an answer at all. What ever they decide it will be an interesting case study to see if things can change.

 

[olwyngdh]

It is a stupid bumper sticker slogan that is doing more damage than good. Yes, we need police reform. We need new and ongoing training that promotes "protect and serve" rather than seeing citizens as the enemy in a war. We need accountability and police held to higher rather than lower standards than the general populace. Demilitarize would be a better slogan than defund.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

"Defund the Police" is an example of poor marketing and communication. Who hears that phrase and thinks that's a good idea? No police at all? I mean, some people do, but not a lot. So you have to explain "well, we don't actually mean that we want to defund the police", but by that point, you've already lost like 40% of your audience.

"8 Can't Wait", on the other hand, includes a list of 8 policies being advocated for to prevent excessive use of force. Some people won't bother reading what those 8 steps are, but at least they don't think you are advocating for the total removal of law enforcement agencies throughout the country.

https://8cantwait.org/