DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[nalababybear]

Reminds me of the issues we had at the airline I worked for. Too many frequent flyers at the hub airports. Priority boarding didn't mean anything as half the plane had priority boarding. It led to adjustments in the benefits.

When everyone has priority, then no one has.

DAS isn't a benefit -- it's an accommodation. Disney just happens to lump both the DAS accommodation and a paid service (LL/G+) into the same line.

DAS holders can easily file a claim of nonaccommodation if LL lines consistently get above 30minutes and documented as such -- leading to a valid claim of lines due not to DAS overuse - but a paid service -- that could easily hold water in the courts and I'm pretty confident Disney doesn't want to relitigate that again.

Appropriate yet reasonable. No business is required to provide accommodations that negatively affect business operations, even if those accommodations would be considered appropriate by those seeking them.

Not true. reasonable accommodations are required. It actually may impact business operations -- eg DAS impacts LL capacity -- yet that argument will fall flat in the courts. If it prevented operations, that's much higher bar than stated here.

 

[OurBigTrip]

DAS isn't a benefit -- it's an accommodation. Disney just happens to lump both the DAS accommodation and a paid service (LL/G+) into the same line.

DAS holders can easily file a claim of nonaccommodation if LL lines consistently get above 30minutes and documented as such -- leading to a valid claim of lines due not to DAS overuse - but a paid service -- that could easily hold water in the courts and I'm pretty confident Disney doesn't want to relitigate that again.


Not true. reasonable accommodations are required. It actually may impact business operations -- eg DAS impacts LL capacity -- yet that argument will fall flat in the courts. If it prevented operations, that's much higher bar than stated here.

It didn’t fall flat in the DAS case that Disney won.

 

[Kgrace1989]

DAS isn't a benefit -- it's an accommodation. Disney just happens to lump both the DAS accommodation and a paid service (LL/G+) into the same line.

DAS holders can easily file a claim of nonaccommodation if LL lines consistently get above 30minutes and documented as such -- leading to a valid claim of lines due not to DAS overuse - but a paid service -- that could easily hold water in the courts and I'm pretty confident Disney doesn't want to relitigate that again.


Not true. reasonable accommodations are required. It actually may impact business operations -- eg DAS impacts LL capacity -- yet that argument will fall flat in the courts. If it prevented operations, that's much higher bar than stated here.

I totally see where you are coming from in saying that “Das isn’t a benefit, it’s an accommodation” … I agree that it’s accommodation…

But, it is an accommodation that offers the benefit of using the LL, which is a usually a shorter wait (and I do realize that DAS guests wait as long/longer/or equal the standby time).

Because the accommodation happens to come with that benefit (and it is a “benefit”) that Disney has non disabled guest pay to have…

I think it might grant Disney a little bit more wiggle room with what the have to provide vrs. what they want be able to provide (and what the guests would like them to provide)

They absolutely have to provide some accommodations to all who need them…
But there are other ways they could do it differently from what they currently offer


(I am Not at all saying I don’t want them offer DAS is it is currently.. I don’t have a disability, but I think it has value and makes the parks doable for many who could not go otherwise, I am just saying I don’t think they have to provide it as is)

And I actually stand corrected on a post I made earlier where I said that if the standby lane is open to all guests, Disney has to allow the DAS guest access to the LL ( I didn’t think they could limit the DAS guest from getting a return time, since the return to LL is the standby for those guests)..

But a friend of mine pointed out that Sesame place in Pennsylvania offers a DAS like pass to guests with needs… BUT the pass they offer only allow 2 rides for the attraction, not the ability to get repeated return times to all attractions . And I was really surprised to lean they have 15 attractions.. but the guests using their DAS like pass has to choose 6 of them to experience with the return after waiting standby time.

So they do not have open access to
Get a return time to wait the standby time and come back to try all the attractions, they are limited to choosing a few and then Further limited in the amount of rides they can have on those 6 that they choose

I’m not saying I think their system is good, i actually think it seems a little unfair to not at a least I offer the ability to get a return time for 1 ride on each of their 15 attractions (since a guests needing a DAS like accommodation wouldn’t be able to access the standby line any other way. ..

But apparently, I stand corrected, and it is legal for a park to pick and choose more specific ways of accommodation … I guess the little bit of research I did showed that there is not a lot of case law at all in regards to accommodations offered for those who can’t wait in the standby line.

The law is very specific when talking about the ADA requiring ramps / accessible ride vehicles ect ( anything having to do with structure and how the ride is constructed and accessed is very well defined in the ADA section on amusement parks)

BUT… when it comes to those who need accommodations to wait elsewhere and come back… the ADA is basically empty. It really doesn’t specify what has to be offered (if anything) .

I was really surprised honestly, but I guess there just has not been many cases argued on this issue (the only one I could find was the last one that Disney litigated regarding the GAC)


Compared to other parks …Disney is very generous with their accommodations, and I hope guests who need it can continue to use DAS ini it’s current form.. , but apparently it’s a big grey area as to what parks have provide in accommodations.

*** upon reading over this I realized I used the word apparently like 20 times lol, I’m sorry, I had a long day at work and that word kept popping into my writing

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I totally see where you are coming from in saying that “Das isn’t a benefit, it’s an accommodation” … I agree that it’s accommodation…

But, it is an accommodation that offers the benefit of using the LL, which is a usually a shorter wait (and I do realize that DAS guests wait as long/longer/or equal the standby time).

Because the accommodation happens to come with that benefit (and it is a “benefit”) that Disney has non disabled guest pay to have…

I think it might grant Disney a little bit more wiggle room with what the have to provide vrs. what they want be able to provide (and what the guests would like them to provide)

They absolutely have to provide some accommodations to all who need them…
But there are other ways they could do it differently from what they currently offer


(I am Not at all saying I don’t want them offer DAS is it is currently.. I don’t have a disability, but I think it has value and makes the parks doable for many who could not go otherwise, I am just saying I don’t think they have to provide it as is)

And I actually stand corrected on a post I made earlier where I said that if the standby lane is open to all guests, Disney has to allow the DAS guest access to the LL ( I didn’t think they could limit the DAS guest from getting a return time, since the return to LL is the standby for those guests)..

But a friend of mine pointed out that Sesame place in Pennsylvania offers a DAS like pass to guests with needs… BUT the pass they offer only allow 2 rides for the attraction, not the ability to get repeated return times to all attractions . And I was really surprised to lean they have 15 attractions.. but the guests using their DAS like pass has to choose 6 of them to experience with the return after waiting standby time.

So they do not have open access to
Get a return time to wait the standby time and come back to try all the attractions, they are limited to choosing a few and then Further limited in the amount of rides they can have on those 6 that they choose

I’m not saying I think their system is good, i actually think it seems a little unfair to not at a least I offer the ability to get a return time for 1 ride on each of their 15 attractions (since a guests needing a DAS like accommodation wouldn’t be able to access the standby line any other way. ..

But apparently, I stand corrected, and it is legal for a park to pick and choose more specific ways of accommodation … I guess the little bit of research I did showed that there is not a lot of case law at all in regards to accommodations offered for those who can’t wait in the standby line.

The law is very specific when talking about the ADA requiring ramps / accessible ride vehicles ect ( anything having to do with structure and how the ride is constructed and accessed is very well defined in the ADA section on amusement parks)

BUT… when it comes to those who need accommodations to wait elsewhere and come back… the ADA is basically empty. It really doesn’t specify what has to be offered (if anything) .

I was really surprised honestly, but I guess there just has not been many cases argued on this issue (the only one I could find was the last one that Disney litigated regarding the GAC)


Compared to other parks …Disney is very generous with their accommodations, and I hope guests who need it can continue to use DAS ini it’s current form.. , but apparently it’s a big grey area as to what parks have provide in accommodations.

*** upon reading over this I realized I used the word apparently like 20 times lol, I’m sorry, I had a long day at work and that word kept popping into my writing

About 100-150 pages ago, I posted my review of the key language from the previous Disney cases— they do not have to allow DAS for everybody who thinks it’s a reasonable accommodation and they don’t have to allow it at all if they can prove it’s crippling park operations. They have evidence to demonstrate the impact so they are going to take DAS away for some limitations that are very common. They are trying to keep it for the guests they think need it most and still allow them 3 guests. If this leads to more people faking (or even legitimately claiming) the remaining conditions that qualify and/or more people claiming that actually 2/3/4 people in their group have the DAS-necessitating limitations so that they can have their group of 8/12/16, then Disney will tighten up the system further.

My prediction is that someone who gets denied DAS but feels entitled will sue (just like in the last round) and during that litigation Disney will seek a ruling that they don’t have to use a system like DAS at all or, in the alternative, that it is only required for rare conditions and with DAS parties of 1 or 2 in most situations.

 

[Elephantay]

So I saw your post earlier, and just to clarify -- you may have a diagnosis that fits into the "autism or similar" category, but if you are currently able to do the parks without DAS then you most likely don't have the "need" aspect of qualifying for DAS. Many people with the same diagnosis will have different needs, and even further some may have developed their own coping mechanisms to help them with their needs. I'm not asking you to expand further, but it is very important that the public realize DAS is not simply a blanket accommodation available to anybody with a certain diagnosis. Individuals must still present the need.

This is an interesting part of this, because the ability to do the parks is somewhat subjective and whether or not the accommodation will be needed is often something you can't know beforehand, I think.

In our case, we have always adjusted to what our child needs on that day. Sometimes we can stay for a long time, sometimes we can't. We can't always stay in a line and may need to only do indoor things, as his issue is heat-related. Sometimes we can't go the park we wanted, and several times have had to leave quickly due to the heat. I remember one late afternoon it was hotter than the surface of the sun coming from BOG and we were trying to figure out what to do but needed to leave and come back a few hours later ...So maybe our child could get a DAS accommodation, we hadn't ever thought of it. It would definitely make it easier for our family, but do we "need" it?

Another person MAY have a bathroom issue and need to leave a line, or they may not ( we've got that issue in our family, too).
Some people with ASD may be able to wait in a line, another time it may upset them...
Reading through these posts to keep up with things. I appreciate everyone else's perspectives and hearing about their experiences.

 

[Disneychick75]

It didn’t fall flat in the DAS case that Disney won.

That was a GAC case.

Was thinking a couple of minutes ago that we'll be here discussing 5 years from now when Disney announces they're changing DAS to some other acronym.

All I can say is the company relies on money made from their parks so they had better step up. The movie division lost almost 1 billion dollars in 2023 and 2024 is not looking a lot better. The parks, on the other hand generated more than 32 billion dollars.
Hey, Disney, here's my idea, use some of the 32 billion to make the parks better without taking years to finish a project and make quality family movies again. You're welcome.

 

[SueM in MN]

I always tap in a few minutes early if we're already at the attraction I have a LL for and it turns blue without having DAS. 50/50 the CM will override it. Sometimes we have to step back but it's always worth a shot!

Just wanted to post that blue is not specific to DAS.
It’s just an alert that tells the CM to look at their screen to see what the alert is.
Some of the reasons are guest using DAS for the attraction, guest early or late for entry, guest scanning into line they don’t have a Genie + or Individual Lightning Lane for

 

[OurBigTrip]

That was a GAC case.

Was thinking a couple of minutes ago that we'll be here discussing 5 years from now when Disney announces they're changing DAS to some other acronym.

All I can say is the company relies on money made from their parks so they had better step up. The movie division lost almost 1 billion dollars in 2023 and 2024 is not looking a lot better. The parks, on the other hand generated more than 32 billion dollars.
Hey, Disney, here's my idea, use some of the 32 billion to make the parks better without taking years to finish a project and make quality family movies again. You're welcome.

Calling it a GAC case doesn’t change the fact that both trial and the appeals court ruled that Disney doesn’t have to provide a preferred accommodation (which the plaintiff claimed was reasonable) if it fundamentally impacts park operations in a negative way.

DAS, as it currently works, does fundamentally alter park operations in a negative way, so Disney is changing the accommodation.

I have no doubt that someone (or many someones) will sue, saying that they need the DAS as it was before…just like the people who sued over losing GAC did. And I have no doubt that just like in the GAC case, Disney will provide reams of Dara showing the negative impact of DAS as it currently works.

 

[Mattrg_2000]

Maybe they should change the name completely from Disability?

25% of the US population has some type of disability and 100% of the US population prefers not waiting in lines.

Glad they are making an effort to fix this. Not easy.

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/disabilityandhealth/infographic-disability-impacts-all.html

 

[Disneychick75]

Calling it a GAC case doesn’t change the fact that both trial and the appeals court ruled that Disney doesn’t have to provide a preferred accommodation (which the plaintiff claimed was reasonable) if it fundamentally impacts park operations in a negative way.

DAS, as it currently works, does fundamentally alter park operations in a negative way, so Disney is changing the accommodation.

I have no doubt that someone (or many someones) will sue, saying that they need the DAS as it was before…just like the people who sued over losing GAC did. And I have no doubt that just like in the GAC case, Disney will provide reams of Dara showing the negative impact of DAS as it currently works.

I agree but since you posted GAC and we're discussing DAS, I felt like this needed to be made clear.

Yes, I'm sure someone will sue. As I posted somewhere way back in the thread, I grew up surrounded by attorneys and judges. During summers, I would work in my Dad's law office and saw some crazy stuff.

Disney though needs to step up and not take years to finish projects. I remember several years ago when Uni was working on the Harry Potter section, they got it done wham bam. Disney could too. I have never understood why they seem to dawdle. If Disney got work done faster on expansions, crowds would be dispersed throughout the parks.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I agree but since you posted GAC and we're discussing DAS, I felt like this needed to be made clear.

Yes, I'm sure someone will sue. As I posted somewhere way back in the thread, I grew up surrounded by attorneys and judges. During summers, I would work in my Dad's law office and saw some crazy stuff.

Disney though needs to step up and not take years to finish projects. I remember several years ago when Uni was working on the Harry Potter section, they got it done wham bam. Disney could too. I have never understood why they seem to dawdle. If Disney got work done faster on expansions, crowds would be dispersed throughout the parks.

The reference to GAC was due to the lawsuit against Disney when DAS replaced GAC.

But of course, you knew that.

The angst and upset now is no different than the angst and upset when GAC was replaced with DAS nearly 11 years ago.

 

[Disneychick75]

The reference to GAC was due to the lawsuit against Disney when DAS replaced GAC.

But of course, you knew that.

The angst and upset now is no different than the angst and upset when GAC was replaced with DAS nearly 11 years ago.

And we'll see the same angst in a few years when Disney's 2024 fix doesn't work.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And we'll see the same angst in a few years when Disney's 2024 fix doesn't work.

Phrased like that it's like you view adjustments made as doomed to fail so why change anything. Companies do this stuff all the time, they change, discontinue, tweak on the go their programs.

I've been with AMC Theaters as a rewards member for example for 20 years. I was under MovieWatcher which had a special student sticker (allowing different pricing with ease) and now Stubs (sans student aspect). I've watched the Stubs program undergo changes, increase in price. I've seen my Dine-In theaters in my area used to be priced higher but they included food vouchers (which lasted several years). And so on. Hardly unique in this (many of us probably see this with hotel and airline reward programs).

For the purposes of this thread populations change, tourism changes, situations a theme park comes across change. And it should always be a changing environment as you interact with these changes.

Work is in the eye of the beholder here but the only one that it really is pertinent to is how Disney views it over time and if a lawsuit is filed how the courts view it, but just because a guest thinks it doesn't work (likely tied to how it impacts them realistically speaking) in the end isn't applicable to your above comment. Regardless I think it's preemptive to go about with the mentality that this is a "fix" and that it won't work. People need time and grace to adjust to updates to any program or options Disney has.

 

[j1d1]

Just registered for DAS for an upcoming visit 5/27-5/30 at WDW. Waited only a few minutes to be connected to a cast member. My son has a mix of medical (including type 1 diabetes) and developmental disabilities. He was approved for DAS. We have 5 total in the family including the DAS qualifier. Because we registered before 5/20, we are allowed to have all 5 in the party for rides even though the visit is after 5/20. She did not volunteer how our party of 5 would have been dealt with if we registered after 5/20. Again because we registered before 5/20, we were allowed to make Advanced Ride Selections. She confirmed to me that Advanced Selections will be going away for registrations after 5/20. We were approved for DAS for the length of the visit even though the end of the visit is beyond 30 days. We ran into some trouble making the Advanced Selections because of different ticket types in the party, but this was eventually sorted out. Hopefully this provides at least 1 data point regarding the current process. I would definitely encourage registering before 5/20 as long as your visit start falls within 30 days of your registration call. Unless something changes or the cast member gave incorrect information, the party size restriction will start and Advanced Selections will go away for registrations after 5/20.

 

[Disneychick75]

Phrased like that it's like you view adjustments made as doomed to fail so why change anything. Companies do this stuff all the time, they change, discontinue, tweak on the go their programs.

I've been with AMC Theaters as a rewards member for example for 20 years. I was under MovieWatcher which had a special student sticker (allowing different pricing with ease) and now Stubs (sans student aspect). I've watched the Stubs program undergo changes, increase in price. I've seen my Dine-In theaters in my area used to be priced higher but they included food vouchers (which lasted several years). And so on. Hardly unique in this (many of us probably see this with hotel and airline reward programs).

For the purposes of this thread populations change, tourism changes, situations a theme park comes across change. And it should always be a changing environment as you interact with these changes.

Work is in the eye of the beholder here but the only one that it really is pertinent to is how Disney views it over time and if a lawsuit is filed how the courts view it, but just because a guest thinks it doesn't work (likely tied to how it impacts them realistically speaking) in the end isn't applicable to your above comment. Regardless I think it's preemptive to go about with the mentality that this is a "fix" and that it won't work. People need time and grace to adjust to updates to any program or options Disney has.

Just going by the last what 20 yrs of history - can't find when GAC program was instituted. GAC worked until it didn't and now DAS isn't working.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Just going by the last what 20 yrs of history - can't find when GAC program was instituted. GAC worked until it didn't and now DAS isn't working.

Well that might be what I was getting at. IMO practically speaking future adjustments or new programs is how any company is going to do things because they have to adapt as their conditions do and since lawsuits were brought up changes due to legal parameters (because changes can be brought about due to legal situations or as a result of).

To give Disney credit it would be exhaustive trying to future forward think every possible situation they may encounter to input into their program especially as how we are as people change and our own laws change as well.

So yes there would be angst again should these adjustments need to be done again but Disney will and should always be reviewing their operations. It's inevitable over the course of the company and so will any angst. It would be worse if Disney tried to stay decades in the past never adjusting, we (people) change and our understanding for things and our technology too fast for that sort of thinking anyhow.

 

[SirDuff]

Reminds me of the issues we had at the airline I worked for. Too many frequent flyers at the hub airports. Priority boarding didn't mean anything as half the plane had priority boarding. It led to adjustments in the benefits.

When everyone has priority, then no one has.

Is that why they changed to business class in group one and those with status (but flying economy) in zone 2?

Sorry, random aside.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Is that why they changed to business class in group one and those with status (but flying economy) in zone 2?

Sorry, random aside.

A more recent rumored change is that Southwest is giving up free seating and moving to assigned seats for some of the same reasons DAS pass is changing.

 

[smartlabelprint]

I totally see where you are coming from in saying that “Das isn’t a benefit, it’s an accommodation” … I agree that it’s accommodation…

But, it is an accommodation that offers the benefit of using the LL, which is a usually a shorter wait (and I do realize that DAS guests wait as long/longer/or equal the standby time).

Because the accommodation happens to come with that benefit (and it is a “benefit”) that Disney has non disabled guest pay to have…

I think it might grant Disney a little bit more wiggle room with what the have to provide vrs. what they want be able to provide (and what the guests would like them to provide)

They absolutely have to provide some accommodations to all who need them…
But there are other ways they could do it differently from what they currently offer


(I am Not at all saying I don’t want them offer DAS is it is currently.. I don’t have a disability, but I think it has value and makes the parks doable for many who could not go otherwise, I am just saying I don’t think they have to provide it as is)

And I actually stand corrected on a post I made earlier where I said that if the standby lane is open to all guests, Disney has to allow the DAS guest access to the LL ( I didn’t think they could limit the DAS guest from getting a return time, since the return to LL is the standby for those guests)..

But a friend of mine pointed out that Sesame place in Pennsylvania offers a DAS like pass to guests with needs… BUT the pass they offer only allow 2 rides for the attraction, not the ability to get repeated return times to all attractions . And I was really surprised to lean they have 15 attractions.. but the guests using their DAS like pass has to choose 6 of them to experience with the return after waiting standby time.

So they do not have open access to
Get a return time to wait the standby time and come back to try all the attractions, they are limited to choosing a few and then Further limited in the amount of rides they can have on those 6 that they choose

I’m not saying I think their system is good, i actually think it seems a little unfair to not at a least I offer the ability to get a return time for 1 ride on each of their 15 attractions (since a guests needing a DAS like accommodation wouldn’t be able to access the standby line any other way. ..

But apparently, I stand corrected, and it is legal for a park to pick and choose more specific ways of accommodation … I guess the little bit of research I did showed that there is not a lot of case law at all in regards to accommodations offered for those who can’t wait in the standby line.

The law is very specific when talking about the ADA requiring ramps / accessible ride vehicles ect ( anything having to do with structure and how the ride is constructed and accessed is very well defined in the ADA section on amusement parks)

BUT… when it comes to those who need accommodations to wait elsewhere and come back… the ADA is basically empty. It really doesn’t specify what has to be offered (if anything) .

I was really surprised honestly, but I guess there just has not been many cases argued on this issue (the only one I could find was the last one that Disney litigated regarding the GAC)


Compared to other parks …Disney is very generous with their accommodations, and I hope guests who need it can continue to use DAS ini it’s current form.. , but apparently it’s a big grey area as to what parks have provide in accommodations.

*** upon reading over this I realized I used the word apparently like 20 times lol, I’m sorry, I had a long day at work and that word kept popping into my writing

Apparently sesame place is kind of for people with special needs. A poster mentioned earlier that it’s ok if the accommodation affects park operations, which is incorrect. So if it’s mostly kids with special needs I can see how they had to limit the accommodation in order to keep the park running.

 

[lanejudy]

So if it’s mostly kids with special needs I can see how they had to limit the accommodation in order to keep the park running.

I’m not sure where you got the idea that Sesame Place is “mostly kids with special needs.” It’s geared towards young kids with the Sesame Street theme and characters, but was never originally built or designed for special needs. It opened in the 1980s. In 2018 it became the first Certified Autism Center theme park (a certification by IBCCES) but that is not the primary population though I’m sure it brings more due to the autism-friendly designation.