DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Jdavidm]

On the topic of horror stories with DAS scan ins..

I once scanned in a whole 2 minutes early for Matterhorn (not even the full allowed 5 minutes when the return LOADS for you to use) because the lightning lane was building up after another ride went down and we tried to guarantee I’d be able to get on before it got any worse.

The Cast Member REFUSED to let us onto the ride and made me wait all over again through the lightning lane queue two minutes later. I would’ve understood even if she just had us wait to the side then continue on two minutes after at the “set time” but nope, sent to the back where it had significantly grown in length because Space Mountain broke down. She conveniently left that station by the time we made it back to the front to scan in again and we had to explain to the new cast member why my return time was showing as used since we had already scanned in but were denied access. Luckily this CM was understanding

We did report the situation as we were ALWAYS told we could scan in 5 minutes early (when it loads on the app) and guest relations CM’s confirmed we were correct in that. All I can do is hope that cast member was better educated on the DAS return process after that.

 

[ttintagel]

Yeah, it's been my experience as a person whose disabilities are mostly of the kind where I have to ask individual CMs for accommodation at every single attraction, that the ratio of friendly, understanding people who actually want to listen and help, to impatient, dismissive people acting on their own preexisting biases about disability, is about the same among Disney CMs as it is among the general public. It can be hit or miss.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Re how were the numbers of DAS users were calculated - len testa talks about it in detail here (mods, I hope this is OK - it's not showing up as a blocked site for me)

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...at-wdw-this-or….981083/page-259#post-10727507

 

[clairenutter]

If you are booked through Disney directly (it sounds like you are), if you call and ask for a refund based on the above, and then ask to escalate to a supervisor, I think you are extremely likely to get a refund of the deposit.

Thank you. Yes the accommodation as in hotel and park tickets are booked via Disney but I booked the flights directly with the airline and since I am flying from the uk these cost me hundreds of dollars which I have already paid and are non refundable.

 

[smartlabelprint]

Oh wow… that is beyond frustrating to be there and not be able to use what you need. I’m so sorry.
Sending lots of hugs

We knew about the change and were prepared. But we received the medical accommodation last year and we were hoping to this year. This is an unreasonable change on Disney’s part, even to disallow stroller wagons from the parks in general. Many traditional stroller companies are making “wagons” that are tiny. Our wagons are all in conformity to Disney’s width & length requirements. The huge adult stroller is not in compliance with length (and possibly width by an inch), yet they do not require an exemption tag! This is how they get in trouble, they don’t follow their own rules. Since our 3 kids can fit in one wagon we are tripling our footprint in the park by having 3 strollers, but that is not something that Disney is concerned about, apparently.

My oldest is getting the adult stroller we rented, through a grant. But I can’t tell how it breaks down, not like a child’s one. I don’t think we’ll be able to travel with it on the plane. Let alone 2!

 

[smartlabelprint]

Thank you. Yes the accommodation as in hotel and park tickets are booked via Disney but I booked the flights directly with the airline and since I am flying from the uk these cost me hundreds of dollars which I have already paid and are non refundable.

You can fly in and stay at a different resort. You could skip the Disney part of your trip if they will do so.

 

[nalababybear]

you bring up great points, last year I did GotG with my older daughter with an ILL, and it took almost 30 minutes with LL queue, merged lines (video rooms + final lineup) and ride itself. We would need to know that people with DAS/G+/ILL, what are they considering wait times, because I did find GotG long for myself with my disability, but then on a ride like Slinky, it's no more than 5-10 minutes or so with queue and ride. It could be a problem where people are looking at the entire wait time (including the merge) and not just the LL wait time. I do find Disney has a lot of rides with merge spots that still require a lot of waiting after the merge (HM, ToT, RnRCSA, RotR, Soar, Tron, Dinosaur, TT just as some examples)

And generally, I only tend to see LL lanes long when there had been a breakdown recently.

The problem is Disney has not, and most likely never, release any information regarding why they claim the LL lanes are becoming too long. They have just chosen to target and reduce DAS users as the solution.

Accommodation revision is one method to reduce as well as cutting down abuse itself. By stratification, it does.make it easier to identify and weed out abusers.

No, but if they’re stationed at a merge point they could choose to prioritize the standby line over the lightning lane and make someone wait because they’re “annoyed by all the DAS users” entering via lightning lane.

It shouldn’t be happening but they do control the flow and merging of lines so in theory they could make them wait longer before they get on depending on how the merging of lines works on the particular ride. I’m a DLR local so I can’t speak to Mine Train but I’m guessing the cast member meant they were going to hold the lightning lane and let standby go if the next party to scan in was DAS since they see DAS as people getting around “paying for LL”.

Not many rides merge at.point of scanning..

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Agreed. As a project manager who daily sees stakeholders refuse to complete action items as they are explicitly guided to complete them (because it's easier to give in to pressure than to hold to the protocol(s) in place), I have a feeling that leaving the success of these changes 100% up to CM discretion is 1) unfair to them and 2) very, very likely to fail as soon as burnout sets in. All the training in the world won't encourage a disincentivized and disenfranchised employee to enforce rules that get them screamed at and provide no personal benefit to them to follow.

I think this is exactly why they want to take it away from in park cast members and also from generalist guest relations workers. I don’t spend much time by the blue umbrellas but I have seen two very ugly episodes (one on each coast) of people shouting about why they deserve something (one I was close enough to hear DAS being denied it for one reason and then hear the guest start shouting about how she can’t wait in line due to her anxiety— I don’t know if the other episode of guest shouting at the cast member was DAS related or not). If Disney is serious about sticking to a limit of 4 (or offering different accommodations) there are going to be a lot of irate repeat DAS holders talking about how their vacation is ruined because they can’t keep their party of 6/8/10+ together.

 

[SteveMouse]

We knew about the change and were prepared. But we received the medical accommodation last year and we were hoping to this year. This is an unreasonable change on Disney’s part, even to disallow wagons from the parks in general. Many traditional stroller companies are making “wagons” that are tiny. Our wagons are all in conformity to Disney’s width & length requirements. The huge adult stroller is not in compliance with length (and possibly width by an inch), yet they do not require an exemption tag! This is how they get in trouble, they don’t follow their own rules. Since our 3 kids can fit in one wagon we are tripling our footprint in the park by having 3 strollers, but that is not something that Disney is concerned about, apparently.

My oldest is getting the adult stroller we rented, through a grant. But I can’t tell how it breaks down, not like a child’s one. I don’t think we’ll be able to travel with it on the plane. Let alone 2!

Two of the concerns are wagons' visibility and steerability. Push wagons can be difficult to steer, especially if they have something of a load. Pulling a wagon makes it challenging to observe what is happening in and around the wagon. People in the parks are watching their phones, not what's in front of them. I'd bet there is a disproportionate number of pedestrian-wagon collisions compared with pedestrian- wheelchair or pedestrian-ecv collisions in the parks.

 

[SteveMouse]

How many rides have vehicles that can accommodate more that 4 people as a party?

IASW
Pirates
Tiana's River Adventure-
RotR
Runaway Railway
BTMR (kind of)
TSMM (kind of)
BL Space Ranger Spin (kind of)
Ratatouille?
Grande Fiesta
Frozen (kind of)
Peoplemover (kind of)

 

[Jdavidm]

Not many rides merge at.point of scanning..

Like I said, I’m not familiar with WDW merge points so I was only saying it was possible if the scan/merge points were close by.

There are some in DLR where that’s the case and I could see a CM being able to pause LL merging with standby for longer than they should out of frustration.

I’m guessing the CM mentioned was expressing frustration at the “number of DAS holders” they’ve been seeing and it may have been an empty threat to not let them on since they possibly couldn’t actually do anything to slow down the DAS holders from boarding but they certainly shouldn’t be having that type of attitude no matter how many DAS guests they’ve assisted through LL back to back. Those guests have already done their waiting outside of the queue and a CM shouldn’t be making them feel bad for using their accommodation appropriately.

 

[Jdavidm]

How many rides have vehicles that can accommodate more that 4 people as a party?

IASW
Pirates
Tiana's River Adventure-
RotR
Runaway Railway
BTMR (kind of)
TSMM (kind of)
BL Space Ranger Spin (kind of)
Ratatouille?
Grande Fiesta
Frozen (kind of)
Peoplemover (kind of)

DLR Version:

Finding Nemo
Guardians
Grizzly River Run
Indiana Jones
Runaway Railway
Millennium Falcon
Pirates
Radiator Springs
Soarin’
Small World
Rise of the Resistance
Jungle Cruise

Same train but not the same car (Does this really count as riding together? Debatable)
Big Thunder
Space Mountain
Incredicoaster

But a lot of these still don’t = more than 4 people in a row…just in a single ride vehicle. You won’t really be able to interact with anyone not in the same row as you on a ride in most situations.

Note: I do understand wanting to be able to rotate who rides with a DAS holder in a larger group so that everyone gets a chance to ride with them. I just don’t think everyone in a large group (outside of immediate family situations) needs to ride every ride together.

 

[SteveMouse]

DLR Version:

Finding Nemo
Guardians
Grizzly River Run
Indiana Jones
Runaway Railway
Millennium Falcon
Pirates
Radiator Springs
Soarin’
Small World
Rise of the Resistance
Jungle Cruise

Same train but not the same car (Does this really count as riding together? Debatable)
Big Thunder
Space Mountain
Incredicoaster

But a lot of these still don’t = more than 4 people in a row…just in a single ride vehicle. You won’t really be able to interact with anyone not in the same row as you on a ride in most situations.

Note: I do understand wanting to be able to rotate who rides with a DAS holder in a larger group so that everyone gets a chance to ride with them. I just don’t think everyone in a large group (outside of immediate family situations) needs to ride every ride together.

That's kind of where I was going. Now, I can certainly see issues if you are at a park with a larger group and you have to ride EVERY "special entrance program"'ride with some permutation of the SAME three other people, assuming for the moment no changes in the makeup of the party once registered (not to mention that one of those other three may not meet ride restrictions for all rides the "primary" rider wants to and can go on, such as one (or more) of the other three being too short.

To borrow from a certain semi-Disney character: "choose wisely!"

 

[DisneyOma]

Re how were the numbers of DAS users were calculated - len testa talks about it in detail here (mods, I hope this is OK - it's not showing up as a blocked site for me)

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/is-attendance-really-down-at-wdw-this-or….981083/page-259#post-10727507

He uses some really fuzzy math in his calculations. He assumes the family size that goes to WDW is between 2-3, for example. Also, if he sells anything based on his data collecting, he should be banned from the parks, right?

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

He uses some really fuzzy math in his calculations. He assumes the family size that goes to WDW is between 2-3, for example. Also, if he sells anything based on his data collecting, he should be banned from the parks, right?

I don’t know that I would describe his math as fuzzy. There was another thread where he described having staff literally counting how many people tapped into the haunted mansion LL in a given hour and excluded VIP tours. He had solid insider information as to how many HM G+ drops there are in every 5 minute period, so he knew roughly the number of G+ users in that lightning lane, and it was about 20 percent. The ride had not been down that morning but recovery fastpasses are possible, Golden Oaks users are possible, D33 was possible, and rider switch was (possible but unlikely given lack of height restrictions). There could be other explanations for the ratio at that ride that day, but based on experience I would certainly say Testa is reliable.

 

[10CJ]

Re how were the numbers of DAS users were calculated - len testa talks about it in detail here (mods, I hope this is OK - it's not showing up as a blocked site for me)

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/is-attendance-really-down-at-wdw-this-or….981083/page-259#post-10727507

So, if those numbers are correct, I am not really seeing the DAS abuse. Or maybe I am just reading it wrong. Did that factor in DAS guests bringing additional people with them into the line?

 

[OurBigTrip]

He uses some really fuzzy math in his calculations. He assumes the family size that goes to WDW is between 2-3, for example. Also, if he sells anything based on his data collecting, he should be banned from the parks, right?

That math related to family size isn't actually his, it's from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

 

[sprem96]

Yeah, I remember Len saying on the podcast that they (Touring Plans) had people (their data collectors) watching and counting people tapping in. I don’t know how y’all feel about that, but I find it feels like an invasion of privacy, I know anyone can see the tap light, but whether I’m using DAS or G+ or whatever is between me and Disney and a third party company not affiliated with Disney shouldn’t be allowed to collect that kind of data from guests.

Also, they were assuming that if 8 people walked up at the same time and the 1st person was a DAS user, that all 8 people were in the same party, I've used DAS and had ILL or G+ users directly behind me, it doesn't mean they were in my party but one could assume they were since they scanned directly after me (if I was a group of 5, that means they theoretically making my group 160% of what it actually is). The whole concept of LT studying the blue light and guests afterwards is entirely skewed based on the concept I provided. The only correct data would be from Disney directly only.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Also, they were assuming that if 8 people walked up at the same time and the 1st person was a DAS user, that all 8 people were in the same party, I've used DAS and had ILL or G+ users directly behind me, it doesn't mean they were in my party but one could assume they were since they scanned directly after me (if I was a group of 5, that means they theoretically making my group 160% of what it actually is). The whole concept of LT studying the blue light and guests afterwards is entirely skewed based on the concept I provided. The only correct data would be from Disney directly only.

I thought everyone in a DAS party had to tap in right behind the DAS holder?

 

[lanejudy]

The only correct data would be from Disney directly only.

And I am certain that Disney does have their own data which is directing the changes they are making. We won’t be privy unless or until it comes out in a court case as it did with the GAC lawsuit.