DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[2tinkerbell]

It has been my experience that one of the biggest reasons the LL’s are so long is the down times. When a ride finally comes back up, you can have several hours of G+ and DAS riders. At least in Disneyland. I personally feel they need the 3rd shift back and their attraction mechanics either better trained or have more of them. Fixing the DAS is just one possible solution to the long LL’s. If they decrease the amount of people utilizing DAS, increase the sale of Genie+, and utilize Rider Swap, they are still going to be in the same place they are now.

 

[OurBigTrip]

"The Federal Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) requires places of public accommodation to provide patrons with reasonable opportunities for the “equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation.”

The new DAS rules do not provide equal accommodations and certainly do not lead to equal enjoyment.

It says nothing about providing equal accommodations; it says reasonable opportunities for equal enjoyment.

 

[Disneychick75]

Nope, because there is no legal obligation to provide the same accommodation to different disabilities. There is also no obligation or requirement to provide an accommodation that is more than what is needed.

So, this doesn't apply? Equal doesn't mean "equal"?


"The ADA says people with disabilities are entitled to “the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations” that a public accommodation provides to its customers. In other words, every type of good or service a business provides to customers is covered by the ADA. All businesses that serve the public must provide equal opportunity for customers with disabilities."

 

[OurBigTrip]

More pure conjecture…I wonder if small changes in the DAS application process could help catch the true fakers.

If I get on the video chat and request a DAS for IBS, and get turned down then call back and request a DAS for a developmental disability…shouldn’t I be banned?

Again, pure conjecture.

 

[OurBigTrip]

So, this doesn't apply? Equal doesn't mean "equal"?


"The ADA says people with disabilities are entitled to “the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations” that a public accommodation provides to its customers. In other words, every type of good or service a business provides to customers is covered by the ADA. All businesses that serve the public must provide equal opportunity for customers with disabilities."

Equal opportunity to enjoy doesn’t mean equal accommodation.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I just want to share a funny situation we had with my DD. Millennium Falcon: Smugglers Run had a 20 minute stand-by wait time. No problem. My DD can handle that and she was in a good place. I get extremely motion sick on it and so she was going by herself. I sat down outside to wait. I watched as people were coming out and not going in. I checked the APP and it appeared it was down. After 40 minutes I texted my DD and she was still waiting in line because “no CM had come to say it was down.” She is a rule follower and our #1 rule is to follow directions from CMs. She eventually made her way out but she was “done.” We found a nice cool quiet place and she was able to regroup. We still laugh at her experience.

Everyone has the option to stay in line even with a ride breaking down unless they need to clear the queue. I honestly can't remember a CM saying a ride is down inside the queue (I'm sure it has happened just that it's not a norm IME). I experienced that over at Universal with Hagrid's during Early Entry where they cut the line off from being able to enter it and then advised they did not know when it would reopen but advised you could stay in line if you wanted to. We opted to leave.

I've been in countless queues without any notification of it being down except for randomly checking the app and sometimes I'm prompted to do so because the line hasn't moved in a long while. In 2022 that happened in Peter Pan and Remy. Didn't ride Peter Pan that trip due to wait times and that breakdown while in line.

**commenting because of the "rule following" part.

I'm glad y'all were able to rest afterwards

 

[Gentry2004]

Wonder how long it will be before a lawsuit is filed for discrimination??? Allowing someone with a certain disability to use LL while telling another with a different but equally disabling condition, "Sorry, your disability is not acceptable for the accommodation" seems like discrimination on its face.

I agree. This seems different from the prior lawsuit that Disney won. Disney argued that immediate front of the line access was a superior accommodation that was not reasonable, and they were removing the accommodation for everyone. That was the basis of the lawsuit - families arguing they needed immediate access. Disney's response was that that was not reasonable but the new DAS was.

This time is different. Disney is not saying that they can't provide DAS. They can and still are providing DAS. Now instead they are saying that DAS is only reasonable for "certain" classes of disabilities. Its not the same as the previous lawsuit at all. We'll see if anyone sues. It certainly won't be me. My kids are almost grown and my DH (the one likely losing the DAS) was never as into Disney as the rest of us. We are theoretically going this fall, but if its a disaster I imagine that will be it for DH.

 

[Disturbia]

Every party will now do a full standby every time vs going LL to LL.

For example...

Party A DAS - 6 people

2 rides with 1 hour stand by waits (and LL waits of 15 min) - Party A makes reservation at gate at 9am

Arrives at ride 1 at 9:10am and enters LL
Rides as a full group and gets off at 9:25am
Makes reservation for next ride at 9:30am (10 minutes after they checked in to the ride) for 10:30am
Gets to 2nd ride at 10:30am and enters LL
Rides by 10:45am and exits

12 Tier 1 rides done

Party A parent swap - 6 people

Enters park at 9am
Arrives at 1st ride at 9:10am
Gets rider swap entry done by 9:15am - party of 4 enters SB line, party of 2 waits
Party of 4 out at 10:15am and now swaps with party of 2
Party of 2 now waits in LL and is out by 10:35am
Party of 6 now walks to 2nd ride and arrives at 10:45am

6 Tier 1 rides done

Rider swap vs DAS will cut lines by 50%...it always takes time vs DAS that takes no time...it is the ultimate way to accommodate while drastically reducing lines and making cheating effectively worthless. Less rides can be ridden, even if you had an extra rider with a group. It's WHY they let an older brother or sis ride twice with the baby swap (once with mom and once with dad) - they have to wait so long to move on from rides each time, so it gives them a bonus.

DAS has worked more like party A gets child ready after an hour of struggling in the am. Line up for the Skyliner at 10 am after waiting in line with POP century guests for 30 mins then 40 mins at Caribbean beach with child in stroller. (Edited). Finally get a few steps inside and book Remy (it’s just next to the Skyliner how bad can it be trying to get there right). They stand in line 15 min wait for ice cream. Child takes their time eating ice cream spills most of it. Suddenly a bathroom break is needed for the rest of the party. Line at bathrooms is out the door now we’re trying to brace food booth crowds to park the stroller and drag the kid to the entrance of the ride and the LL line is 30 mins just to get to the scanner!!! Wait I left my expensive purse on the stroller!!

I mean come on

 

[Tatebeck]

So, this doesn't apply? Equal doesn't mean "equal"?


"The ADA says people with disabilities are entitled to “the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations” that a public accommodation provides to its customers. In other words, every type of good or service a business provides to customers is covered by the ADA. All businesses that serve the public must provide equal opportunity for customers with disabilities."

Equal opportunity is very different from equal outcome. If they were giving out lottery tickets, everyone could get one and get the same opportunity, but not everyone would win

 

[OurBigTrip]

I agree. This seems different from the prior lawsuit that Disney won. Disney argued that immediate front of the line access was a superior accommodation that was not reasonable, and they were removing the accommodation for everyone. That was the basis of the lawsuit - families arguing they needed immediate access. Disney's response was that that was not reasonable but the new DAS was.

This time is different. Disney is not saying that they can't provide DAS. They can and still are providing DAS. Now instead they are saying that DAS is only reasonable for "certain" classes of disabilities. Its not the same as the previous lawsuit at all. We'll see if anyone sues. It certainly won't be me. My kids are almost grown and my DH (the one likely losing the DAS) was never as into Disney as the rest of us. We are theoretically going this fall, but if its a disaster I imagine that will be it for DH.

The situations are actually quite similar in that the plaintiffs in the DAS lawsuit claimed that the GAC was reasonable because Disney had provided it for years so there was no reason they couldn’t continue to offer it. The judge disagreed.

 

[lanejudy]

So, this doesn't apply? Equal doesn't mean "equal"?


"The ADA says people with disabilities are entitled to “the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations” that a public accommodation provides to its customers. In other words, every type of good or service a business provides to customers is covered by the ADA. All businesses that serve the public must provide equal opportunity for customers with disabilities."

Equal opportunity to enjoy X does not mean exactly the same accommodation. If it did, a business could just offer a ramp to all disabled and consider it ADA compliant -- because that is the accommodation for a wheelchair to avoid stairs and access the business. Does that accommodate everyone? No. Accommodations are based on the individual's needs as well as the business's ability to operate. DAS for all the needs who have been using is apparently overwhelming the operational aspect of the parks and the enjoyment of all guests. Disabled guests are no more or less important than the non-disabled guests.

 

[Disneychick75]

Equal opportunity to enjoy doesn’t mean equal accommodation.

K, thanks, I wasn't trying to be difficult was wondering what equal meant in this situation.

 

[Tatebeck]

The situations are actually quite similar in that the plaintiffs in the DAS lawsuit claimed that the GAC was reasonable because Disney had provided it for years so there was no reason they couldn’t continue to offer it. The judge disagreed.

Yeah as soon as Disney can say it's becoming a problem to their normal day to day business they are going to be able to change it, as long as they offer something

 

[lanejudy]

park the stroller and drag the kid to the entrance of the ride

just a suggestion... would stroller-as-wheelchair help your situation? Keep the child in the stroller through the queues. Many families who deal with autism and/or elopement use one for that very reason.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

DAS has worked more like party A gets child ready after an hour of struggling in the am (lots of screaming punching kicking refusing involved). Line up for the Skyliner at 10 am after waiting in line with POP century guests for 30 mins then 40 mins at Caribbean beach with child in stroller. Child has to be let out of the stroller to ride the Skyliner. All is going well everyone is Happy. Get to Epcot Try to get to the turnstiles . 2 people scan in while child suddenly sprints back so one parent runs behind catching them before they find their way to the friendship boats or the water. Finally get a few steps inside and book Remy (it’s just next to the Skyliner how bad can it be trying to get there right). They stand in line 15 min wait for ice cream. Child takes their time eating ice cream spills most of it. Suddenly a bathroom break is needed for the rest of the party. Line at bathrooms is out the door now we’re trying to brace food booth crowds to park the stroller and drag the kid to the entrance of the ride to make it within the 1 hour and the LL line is 30 mins just to get to the scanner!!! Wait I left my expensive purse on the stroller!! Ask a nice person ahead of us we have less than 1 min left for the grace period to expire can we please scan.

I mean come on

An attempt at levity but if this wasn't a DAS thread I would read this as a quite common enough experience many traveling parties experience even adults (I myself get hangry). Obviously not trying to compare like for like but all of your description can be someone else's experience just with their traveling party completely unrelated to DAS.

I almost always will give the advice for people to try out a local or regional theme or amusement park if they can because Disney is on a whole 'nother level and increasingly more complex. That's not to take away anything from the tribulations others experience here with members in their traveling party having needs.

 

[Sprinkles&Sprints]

Has anyone found any information on the Inspire Health Alliance Disney says is going to help the CM’s make decisions? From what I could find in a quick search, they are a healthcare technology company more focused on IT problems. I know one of the blogs said they worked with the DCL for Covid testing but that is completely different from the knowledge I would expect to be needed to determine DAS eligibility. Thanks

Not sure what we are going to do yet as it seems I will no longer be eligible and travel solo or with one friend or DH most of the time. AP set to expire May 7 with next trip June 7 so really stuck between a rock and hard place making this decision of what to do. Rider switch would make for a fantastically lonely day either way

I know this isn’t ideal but as a hedge you could just purchase day tickets for the duration of your June trip and then depending on the outcome of DAS, you could apply that money and upgrade to your annual pass?

 

[Disturbia]

just a suggestion... would stroller-as-wheelchair help your situation? Keep the child in the stroller through the queues. Many families who deal with autism and/or elopement use one for that very reason.

She is 4.5 now and barely fits. She can stop the stroller with her legs and reach down despite a 3 point harness. Stroller is Something to consider. I’ll do more research. Thanks!

 

[Chuckdlc]

I respect your and everyone else's opinion on this because it is deeply personal to many of us. For me though, I'll offer a contrary viewpoint. I actually pay for genie+ every day we are there as well. Being able to do the rides quickly and then get back to a place where there are less than a million sensory things going on and I can leave the park so that I can go get the weight off my spine by getting into a prone position on a hotel bed is necessary. It helps to sort of bring my nerve issues (actual physical nerves not being nervous about something) back to a stasis point.

I have a neurological condition/central nervous system disease that I became inflicted with about 10 years ago. At this point, I've been sick long enough to not remember what actually feeling healthy feels like anymore. That said, I'm also aware that this is what works for me. It's the combination of accommodation and me paying for something that actually allows me to go to the parks. Other people will certainly need different things. I'm writing this while being in a prone position and banging my feet against each other to reset the nerve pain cycle that builds up everyone 30 seconds or so.

The irony is I look healthy. I do look tired at all times but I also look healthy. My take is that there is no one size fits all fix/accommodation for everyone (such as no other rides if you have a DAS reservation). I know that because my situation is so strange that I can only imagine the difficult things that others endure as well and more to the point what they may need to do to be able to get through the day - including a day at the parks.

 

[lanejudy]

She is 4.5 now and barely fits. She can stop the stroller with her legs and reach down despite a 3 point harness. Something to consider. Thanks!

Maybe look into a larger special needs stroller. We had to switch to one for DD; it went up to I think 110 lbs. The exact model we used to have is no longer made but there are many choices. Insurance may cover part of the cost, especially if your PED or PT/OT can make a case that it's for the child's safety.

 

[Disturbia]

An attempt at levity but if this wasn't a DAS thread I would read this as a quite common enough experience many traveling parties experience even adults (I myself get hangry). Obviously not trying to compare like for like but all of your description can be someone else's experience just with their traveling party completely unrelated to DAS.

I almost always will give the advice for people to try out a local or regional theme or amusement park if they can because Disney is on a whole 'nother level and increasingly more complex. That's not to take away anything from the tribulations others experience here with members in their traveling party having needs.

We’ve been to Disney with her 5 times (we paid for Genie+ except this past trip where we used DAS for the first time; we still purchase ILL$). She was in a carrier so couldn’t run. We go to local zoos and parks every year. She has taken 2 cruises (Fantasy).