D23 Convention 2013 News and Rumor Catch-all - LIVE ACTION ROUND-UP POST 51

[Q-man]

, and Avatarland, which I won't rant too much about but it ISN'T EVEN A DISNEY FRANCHISE!!!

Indiana Jones and StarWars( I guess that is no longer true) say hi. As well as all the classic fairy tales that Disney has animated though the years.

 

[skier_pete]

Avatarland, which I won't rant too much about but it ISN'T EVEN A DISNEY FRANCHISE!!!

Before I get flamed,

Not flaming you, but how come you never hear people complaining that Harry Potter over at Universal isn't a Universal Franchise? It's a Warner Brothers Franchise liscensed by Universal. Do you dislike the Tower or Terror because Disney Licensed Twilight Zone? Or even a licensing deal with Aerosmith for Rock n Roller Coaster. Or HECK, for about 15 years when they were liscensing Pixar stuff before they bought them up.

Indiana Jones and StarWars( I guess that is no longer true) say hi. As well as all the classic fairy tales that Disney has animated though the years.

Though truthfully that was the one thing that surprised me about Avatar was that they have very little liscensed properties anymore, and I realize when that came down they didn't yet own Star Wars.

My thinking is they wanted something that would fit well within Animal Kingdom. Though a lot of people disagree with me, I think Avatar is a perfect fit for the "fantasy/beastly kingdom" and conservation message of Animal Kingdom. It's a lot better than them trying to cram Star Wars or something Pixar-y into DAK. (Though something "Up" might've worked.)

 

[mvk]

i must say, universal is starting to look better and better. They added the transformers, updated a few rides, added on to the simpsons land, adding on to harry potter land. What is disney doing at this moment? Adding a kiddie-roller coaster that is taking many years to complete (universal would've done it in 8 months), added mm+ and fp+ which could be good in the future but is having problems right now, and avatarland, which i won't rant too much about but it isn't even a disney franchise!!!

Before i get flamed, i spend thousands of dollars at disney each year and am in love with it for life. That being said, it's time for the tough love to come out.

omg!!! Harry potter isn't even a universal franchise!!!! Transformers isn't even a universal franchise!!!! The simpsons isn't even a universal franchise!!!

 

[arthropodtodd]

omg!!! Harry potter isn't even a universal franchise!!!! Transformers isn't even a universal franchise!!!! The simpsons isn't even a universal franchise!!!

Yeah I was thinking that as I continue to ready folks praising US for their expansion and moaning and whining about Avatar. Also, think about Marvel which they bought rights to and is now owned by Disney. If fact look at US' biggest box office successes....

1 E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial $359,197,037
2 Jurassic Park $357,067,947
3 Despicable Me 2 $339,391,970
4 Meet the Fockers $279,261,160
5 How the Grinch Stole Christmas $260,044,825
6 Jaws $260,000,000
7 Despicable Me $251,513,985
8 Bruce Almighty $242,829,261
9 Fast & Furious 6 $238,304,785
10 The Lost World: Jurassic Park $229,086,679

IF they built rides/lands based only on their successes and their movies, their park would be filled with fast cars (their own Tomorrowland Speedway on crack), laughed based rides, a shark, a few dinosaurs, and a bike ride with a lovable alien. When Liar, Liar is your 18th best grossing film, I don't think you build your park around only your successes.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I must say, Universal is starting to look better and better. They added the Transformers, updated a few rides, added on to The Simpsons land, adding on to Harry Potter land. What is Disney doing at this moment? Adding a kiddie-roller coaster that is taking many years to complete (Universal would've done it in 8 months), added MM+ and FP+ which could be good in the future but is having problems right now, and Avatarland, which I won't rant too much about but it ISN'T EVEN A DISNEY FRANCHISE!!!

Before I get flamed, I spend thousands of dollars at Disney each year and am in love with it for life. That being said, it's time for the tough love to come out.

But look how many DVCs they have built!

 

[Robbi]

But look how many DVCs they have built!

We DVC members and if Uni had something like DVC, I'd buy in a heartbeat!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Thanks! I wish there had been more interesting to report. My gut tells me there's something big brewing that they are just not ready to tell us. The rumors are swirling like never before. There was some good stuff Re the movies, but again not sure it would be worth the trip out for the convention.

Of course two years ago they had the convention with no announcements and about 3 weeks later dropped the Avatar news...so who knows!

Isn't that a reflex of the Lucasfilm buy though?

Rumors are like sinkholes on 192 right now... You can't stop them, you can only hope to contain them...

People are probably heightened to them...they bought out evil, controlling George, they have new movies going into production, they want to sell tickets and toys...

They HAVE To add on star wars right now, right? Ok? Gotta be, huh?

Well...shockingly I will remain the last holdout till I see it.

I don't see any big plans coming for WDW anytime soon...I just don't. There's no MORE money in it for them. I'll gladly accept being proven wrong... I dare them.

Considering the offensive destruction and delays of downtown and the underwhelming fantasyland and the...again...lack or urgency in animal kingdom work and MGM...I don't buy any rumors on Disney credit anymore.

Sorry

 

[skier_pete]

... I dare them.

I can just see Bob Iger now..."Well he DARED us!"

Here's the thing. The re-do of DCA was successful totally beyond their wildest dreams. The increase in both DCA gate and overall gate was unprecedented.

There's a real possibility - between what happened at IoA with Harry Potter and what happened at DCA with Carsland - that they are seeing $$$$ in their eyes. They have TWO parks that utterly fail to drive attendance, and ONE in particular - DHS - has fallen behind even DAK. They are seeing very slow growth in year over year attendance versus again Universal and DLR. It may be easy to convince themselves an extreme makeover of DHS - focusing on Star Wars, could get them what they are looking for - a significant bump in patronage. They wouldn't need much for it to be worth a billion dollars. 6-8 % growth would do it.

Besides, you don't buy a property like Star Wars for $4 billion without knowing what's there. AND you don't let IMAGINEERING tease Star Wars - even if it's just a couple of crates - if you don't expect to go there.

So - I doubt they need you to dare them Locked Out! It may not come tomorrow or even next year, but I don't think the ink will be dry on the money Episode VII is going to print before this is official.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Pete...


I don't doubt that theme parks were a significant part of their reason to buy...I'm just not sure it's for Florida.

While the California reinvestment has been successful...we know that the Orlando market and California is oranges and... Well... A different kind of oranges.

Dca had nowhere to go but up... It saw a huge retreat and an almost "boycott" by the regional clientele.

As we all go over in perpetuity... That is not the largely one time or infrequent Orlando crowd...longer stays, fewer trips.

While MGM and ak have "lagged"... They still have 10 million a year. We know that alot of that is being drug along by Magic kingdom and to a lesser extent EPCOT... But it still is a fact that buy and large people are still gonna go to the parks...if perhaps not to the same commitment level.

That was the point of the "Disney decade"... Make it so big that is becomes automatically insulated from normal travel fickle behavior.
It is genius... Really.

So back to Star Wars... Look, there is nothing from stopping them from really giving MGM teeth (nor animal kingdom for that matter)...they have the capital, the space, and the autonomous control over what they feel like building...

But they have had that since MGM opened...and haven't done so. I am on record as to fully agree with the "feeder park" theory. It makes sense on all levels. That will be increasingly the case as they build the behemoth altar to retail down the street (bayside marketplace in Miami is how I figure that will turn out... Only bigger).

I also think Disney main problem is the "average stay" hurdle that they ran into at animal kingdom...it is locked around 7 days and they aren't willing to risk what would have to be multiple billions to break through that barrier...they poke at it...but the stock price doesn't allow full commitment. That is another reason to keep MGM as the little sister. Animal kingdom was not intended to be a "feeder park"...but it didnt move the needle hardly at all...and they basically cut their losses. The only major add in 15 years is a busted roller coaster... What I call "Waste Mountain".

Now where would Star Wars be more useful? Hmmm... An international phenomenon that was a trailblazer and is almost a worldwide hit?

Lets see... Perhaps an underachieving movie park in a continuing underachieving complex
In Europe? Perhaps in one or both of two parks in the biggest Country by people on earth? Maybe if the first one happens to struggle?
Or an island country where they eat disney for breakfast and have sold out both their parks on every single day of operation in their history and would probably eagerly support a whole new park... Conveniently where operations are
Paid third party?

Hmmm...let me think?

Orlando is gonna get some stuff... But I have no faith that it will be enough of a commitment to us east coast fools...

And as I have said 1000 times...it's our own fault... They continue to squeeze us like circus clowns and we just smile, book, and take it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

But look how many DVCs they have built!

I think the amount and impact of even DVC is overstated when it comes to things like this...

DVC is a solid , profitable, financially comfortable (generally) foundation clientele of the business...

But i think it's about 175,000 ish so owners at this point? Which is fantastic... But not inundating WDW on every single calendar day...

New parks and huge expensive additions will never be built because of DVC members... It's more the opposite - they got us and know we're coming (mainly because the value is better in WDW DVC rooms than any other options by a factor of 5)...they don't HAVE to do a single thing for us.

We're "construction kryptonite"

But it's ok for me because their rack rates are offensive and my rooms get cheaper every year.
But we're actually hurting everyone else.

We're such jerks ;p

 

[thegib95]

Although I am trying to stay positive leaning, I see both sides of this...

We know avatarland is coming, and proof of progress was at D23 what the hold up in announcements is I do not know? Cameron has already announced a trilogy of sequels to be filmed together, so you would think it would be forthcoming...

I think the suits in Cali have a plan, and I'm hoping its a good one... I personally haven't seen new fantasyland, 2012 trip was right before soft openings and 2013 isn't till December, but there isn't really all that much in it... Restaurant, tavern, Story experience and little mermaid ride.... The mine train actually looks pretty great on the interactive rIde through from D23 So I'm hopeful on this one...
But MK is a multiple day park easy, but the uneducated traveller calls MK, Disney World, but there is some truth to that as its the bees and butter, meat and potatoes. ...

Epcot has Flower/garden and food/wine and candlelight processional those things draw some mega numbers alone... But there is major work to do, and I'm not talking about a new country, although it would be nice the focus at Epcot needs to be on future world.... Reclaim wonders of life pavilion, use oddest for something, and let apple take over innovations or put imagineering display from d23 there, of course there is imagination... New show for EO area and then a new dreamfinder and figment experience? It was hinted at at the expo and even iger through a one liner in here and there...

Finally Hollywood Studios... Rumors have been flying like crazy now more that I have seen in forever... I agree with PP that something is brewing, I am hoping for a total park overhaul, like DCA, but would handle an expansion, I think it could happen though, and you will see marvel overseas and Star Wars in Florida, that's what's next IMHO

 

[skier_pete]

I also think Disney main problem is the "average stay" hurdle that they ran into at animal kingdom...it is locked around 7 days and they aren't willing to risk what would have to be multiple billions to break through that barrier...they poke at it...but the stock price doesn't allow full commitment.

I agree this is why we will never see a 5th park...the one-week barrier. It is impossible to break with most americans, and though foreign visitors make up a significant percent, it is not enough to be worth the expansion.

So that leaves them with three ways to drive revenue;
1) Raise prices
2) Increase guest spending (get them to buy more)
3) Increase total numbers of guests

I'll address all three:
1) The issue here is you do this just to keep up with expenses. They probably do raise prices slightly ahead of that, but there WILL eventually be a breaking point. When your 7 day ticket is $500, $1000? Your "value" hotel is $400 a night?
2) Clearly this is the motivation behind FP+, getting guests to spend more. But there is also a limit here. It's also the reason behind DVC....the long con. Since you paid for your hotel stay up front - you actually spend more on your vacation than you would otherwise. This why they are going to keep finding DVC properties as long as there are buyers.
3) The trickiest one. Again, Disney thought they were built-out on this one. But suddenly Universal and more importantly DLR proves that the needle CAN be moved. But how could you possibly move that needle in Florida?

They now have an answer - Star Wars.


Ugh - i've let myself drag the thread off topic! Dammit! Well, D23 is over anyways.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I think the amount and impact of even DVC is overstated when it comes to things like this...

DVC is a solid , profitable, financially comfortable (generally) foundation clientele of the business...

But i think it's about 175,000 ish so owners at this point? Which is fantastic... But not inundating WDW on every single calendar day...

New parks and huge expensive additions will never be built because of DVC members... It's more the opposite - they got us and know we're coming (mainly because the value is better in WDW DVC rooms than any other options by a factor of 5)...they don't HAVE to do a single thing for us.

We're "construction kryptonite"

But it's ok for me because their rack rates are offensive and my rooms get cheaper every year.
But we're actually hurting everyone else.

We're such jerks ;p

I agree, once they get you in DVC, they got you. No need to build new attractions for you

My point was they can build new things, but they prefer to build things that result in immediate profit, like DVC. If you do the math on DVC, the profit is astounding.

Building more attractions....sure, it might increase profit or maintain profit one year, five years, ten or twenty years down the road. But if you're an exec looking for their bonus in the short term, where are you going to put your focus?

 

[ArwenMarie]

Re the one-week barrier...I think they need to start thinking the opposite...maintaining the week-long stay. Extending it is not the problem right now.

If DHS and AK are perceived as half day parks, MK and Epcot varies, it's getting to a point where people might start splitting their week or ten-day trip between WDW and "other parks" that also have resorts, including a big brand new one that is coming up. Or even alternating trips...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Re the one-week barrier...I think they need to start thinking the opposite...maintaining the week-long stay. Extending it is not the problem right now.

If DHS and AK are perceived as half day parks, MK and Epcot varies, it's getting to a point where people might start splitting their week or ten-day trip between WDW and "other parks" that also have resorts, including a big brand new one that is coming up. Or even alternating trips...

I hope so...that would be good for all of us.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Ugh - i've let myself drag the thread off topic! Dammit! Well, D23 is over anyways.

lol...every thread on these boards can be brought back to one of about 5 topics...that's the important stuff. Everything else is just frosting on the cake.

How disney proceeds with development or lack thereof and the reasons (99.9% financial) is at the top of the select list.

hijack away...like Capt Jack in POTC 13: The Curse of the Declining Merchandise Revenues

 

[beer dave]

I agree, once they get you in DVC, they got you. No need to build new attractions for you

My point was they can build new things, but they prefer to build things that result in immediate profit, like DVC. If you do the math on DVC, the profit is astounding.

Building more attractions....sure, it might increase profit or maintain profit one year, five years, ten or twenty years down the road. But if you're an exec looking for their bonus in the short term, where are you going to put your focus?

The other side of the DVC thing is that Dis keeps wanting to sell more memberships, so they need to build bigger and better resorts to draw prospective buyers, and we as current members, continue to benefit from the increasing level of accommodations at our original buy in price. I would think they can't wait to get rid of us ( the long time owners) .

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The other side of the DVC thing is that Dis keeps wanting to sell more memberships, so they need to build bigger and better resorts to draw prospective buyers, and we as current members, continue to benefit from the increasing level of accommodations at our original buy in price. I would think they can't wait to get rid of us ( the long time owners) .

I hear ya, Dave

I would never complain about the addition of new spots for DVC members...that's part of the awesome side of the contract...

But DVC is an afterthought for park investment...because they don't have to earn our ticket revenue.
That's the stink of it.

 

[sachilles]

The little tidbit that caught my attention relative to the avatarland expansion was the mention of the Bioluminescent elements. Of course that could be inside, but leaves hope that it could make some evening attractions for Animal Kingdom. I'm thinking it could be akin to Osborne family lights that are year round.

 

[Experiment113]

Will Disney animated be available for other devices like kindle fire or iPod? That app looks so neat but I don't have an iPad.