Confusion with Touring Plans

[kjs1976]

I've been trying to optimize a MK day with Touring Plans. I'm a bit frustrated, as each time I run a personalized plan, it says something different. I picked the FPs it recommended getting last week, and now it's saying its not recommended or using those FPs. I've been consistent with the same attractions I've picked. Any thoughts or advice on how to best use it?

The plan that seems to work the best for our party is the following for 6/18 MK:
-Be there early, before RD
-head to Space
-Buzz
-tea cups
-7 dwarves (9-10 AM FP)
-BTMRR x2 (FP @ 10:10-11:10)
-Pirates
-Splash (FP @ 11:10-12:10)
-Lunch @ Columbia Harbor House
-Laugh floor
-Carosel of Prog.
-People Movers
-Break/Return
-6:30 Philharmagic
-Dumbo
-Meet Ariel
-Voyage of LMM
-HM
-Small World
-Happily Ever After

Any advice would be great!

 

[TeamEvansGo]

You can force it to take your fast passes.

My suggestion would be to manually rearrange the rides to where you want them and then hit "evaluate" instead of "optimize". It will keep your order and give you time estimates.

 

[anomamatt]

I have always found TP to give an excellent touring plan. I use the following settings:

- Waiting vs Walking: Minimize walking (this one, IMO, is key!)
- Walking speed: Relaxed (YMMV, but this works for me and our kids)
- Advanced options: 3 FP+ and click the "force" button to make optimize use the FPs you list

Once you have a TP you like and FP choices, use "evaluate" and not "optimize" for further updates.

 

[Trinity88]

I never use Optimize. If you know what you want to do and what order, set them up in order and Evaluate. Enter your FP times, Evaluate again, adjust if needed, Evaluate again, etc. That's what I do and it works great! Your plan looks good to me, it should work well using Evaluate.

 

[kjs1976]

Thank you to all who hace commented thus far. Yes, I figured out early on only to "Evaluate" and not to "Optimize".

This is all great advice!

 

[Jennytoon]

One thing to be aware of is that the FP recommendations are made based on what time you will be arriving at the ride. So it is possible to oddly end up with a situation where it tells you to get a FP for X, and then after you've gotten that fastpass, it will not use it.

Let me illustrate:

You originally set up to arrive at HM at 11 AM, it shows a 45 minute wait at that time (I'm just making these numbers up), and thus you arrive at BTMRR at 11:55, with a 25 minute wait at BTMRR.

The software recommends that you get a FP for HM and for BTMRR.

You slot in a FP at 11 for HM, and a FP at noon for BTMRR.

Now, when you evaluate, your wait for HM goes to 10 minutes, and you arrive at BTMRR at 11:20 with a 15 minute wait. Not only will you now not be using your FP for BTMRR -- because you will be off the ride well ahead of when your FP window would even open -- but I believe it will not recommend a FP because it 'knows' that you can't get one because you are still in the window of your HM FP. I'm not 100% sure about this last bit, but I think I've seen it do this.

One thing to also be aware of is that if it doesn't use a particular FP, there is usually a green banner at the top that tells you why.

 

[Hopefully]

Why don't you ask on the Touring Plans web site, rather than here?

 

[kjs1976]

Why don't you ask on the Touring Plans web site, rather than here?

I've looked there. I just always know to come here because since 2001 I've gotten the best advice and tips on this site for many a WDW question.

 

[Jennytoon]

Try this on for size: https://touringplans.com/plans/print?id=2543519. I had walking set at Average, so if that's not your setting the times will be off.

A few notes, since I incorporated a few of my own biases into this plan

1. I like Splash after lunch, that way if somebody gets really wet they don't freeze in the AC
   
   
2. I like Philharmagic right before lunch, it's such a constant time all through the day that if everything else is late for some reason you can skip it and pick it up as you pass by later without worrying that if you don't do it where it is in the schedule you'll pay a wait time penalty later
   
   
3. I put lunch at 11:30 to avoid crowds; if you're confident you can eat in less than 50 minutes then you can adjust the time. If you do this, you may wish to move the Splash FP up too -- the goal is to overlap with lunch for most of the FP and therefore give you a solid window to land the SDMT FP even though you will ride the two rides fairly close together in time.
   
   
4. Your plan finishes up in Fantasyland, which is a long walk back around the hub to find space for HEA. I like this one better because it finishes up in Tomorrowland, so you've got a straight line back to Main Street to find a good position for HEA, and you'll be heading over there about 8 (note the 30 minutes free time between steps 20 and 21). Also I like the PeopleMover later in the day or at dusk. Just personal preference based on brightness as you look over the park.
   
   
5. I'm guessing you have small kids because you're riding Dumbo, so I threw in the ride on the railroad when returning to the park to cut down on the long walk back into that corner. Obviously you could ditch it if you don't like the railroad. Keep in mind that the total walk time will be a little off, since it always counts as though you're riding the whole way around.
   
   
6. Again with the small kids, don't know if they have a scheduled nap time or just need a break. This is leaving at 2:30 for a 3 hour break, but if you have more specifics I could tinker a bit more. The real goal is to use up all three FPs before you leave so that you can make a 4th before you go, which you have in your original plan as well.

 

[KimBean]

I've looked there. I just always know to come here because since 2001 I've gotten the best advice and tips on this site for many a WDW question.

I've been here since 2003 and feel the same way. Getting harder and harder to ask questions. If no one asks questions or starts any threads then this place would shut down. LOL!

 

[Jennytoon]

As far as more general advice goes (your question about how to use it), usually I throw in everything I want to do and hit Optimize to see what it comes up with. Sometimes it thinks of things I wouldn't have. After I see that, I start putting things in an order that I know makes 'sense' on where I know things are in the park.

While I'm ordering things, I usually have a pretty good idea of where things are in the park, so that I can put them in a sensible order. I also mentally keep track of which rides will never be a long line, which rides will always be a long line, and which rides are variable. There are two basic strategies:

1. Get FP for lines that always have a long line, and adjust the variable ones to catch the beginnings and ends of the trip based on how you go around the park so that those lines are minimal.
   
   
2. Hit the ones that always have a long line early, and use FP to shorten the waits on the ones that are variable.

Which strategy you choose is highly affected by which park you are in, when you will get there, and how long you will be there.

Once the basic framework is in place, then I start adding the FP. I do the earliest blocker first, then evaluate so I can see where the remaining times end up. Then the second, repeat, then the third. Sometimes I swap steps a bit in between to make the FP windows line up better.

After that, it's all just tinkering and seeing how things change. If you don't have a good idea of where things are before you start making plans, don't worry -- you'll get a pretty decent idea fairly rapidly as you see how things move around on the map.

 

[kjs1976]

Try this on for size: https://touringplans.com/plans/print?id=2543519. I had walking set at Average, so if that's not your setting the times will be off.

A few notes, since I incorporated a few of my own biases into this plan

1. I like Splash after lunch, that way if somebody gets really wet they don't freeze in the AC
   
   
2. I like Philharmagic right before lunch, it's such a constant time all through the day that if everything else is late for some reason you can skip it and pick it up as you pass by later without worrying that if you don't do it where it is in the schedule you'll pay a wait time penalty later
   
   
3. I put lunch at 11:30 to avoid crowds; if you're confident you can eat in less than 50 minutes then you can adjust the time. If you do this, you may wish to move the Splash FP up too -- the goal is to overlap with lunch for most of the FP and therefore give you a solid window to land the SDMT FP even though you will ride the two rides fairly close together in time.
   
   
4. Your plan finishes up in Fantasyland, which is a long walk back around the hub to find space for HEA. I like this one better because it finishes up in Tomorrowland, so you've got a straight line back to Main Street to find a good position for HEA, and you'll be heading over there about 8 (note the 30 minutes free time between steps 20 and 21). Also I like the PeopleMover later in the day or at dusk. Just personal preference based on brightness as you look over the park.
   
   
5. I'm guessing you have small kids because you're riding Dumbo, so I threw in the ride on the railroad when returning to the park to cut down on the long walk back into that corner. Obviously you could ditch it if you don't like the railroad. Keep in mind that the total walk time will be a little off, since it always counts as though you're riding the whole way around.
   
   
6. Again with the small kids, don't know if they have a scheduled nap time or just need a break. This is leaving at 2:30 for a 3 hour break, but if you have more specifics I could tinker a bit more. The real goal is to use up all three FPs before you leave so that you can make a 4th before you go, which you have in your original plan as well.

Thanks for this advice! Actually, my daughter is 9, but we've done Dumbo every year since I was pregnant with her...been our mother/daughter tradition. And my sister in law is coming with and it's her first WDW trip ever so VoLM, Enchanted Tales, and meeting Ariel are her requests because LMM and B&B are her fav movies.

 

[rer1972]

You can force it to take your fast passes.

My suggestion would be to manually rearrange the rides to where you want them and then hit "evaluate" instead of "optimize". It will keep your order and give you time estimates.

Do this. I usually will start with optimize, and then reorganize the plan to where it makes better sense for us. That includes moving fp to where I want them, or moving things so we aren't crisscrossing the parks. After a little bit of that I usually have a pretty good workable plan.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

I usually just use their standard plans (there are tons to choose from) and put in my FP+. I don't move things around or optimize. Their standard plans are set up in the best possible way to avoid waiting in lines. They use historical data and queue theory to set the order of attractions in their plans. If I start messing with them, then I start to mess up/lose the advantage they give me.

I have been known to follow the plans super closely for the fist half of the day and rather loosely for the last half of the day.

 

[basicprincess24]

I've noticed that it can be a little glitchy at times and give you weird things. One tip I read somewhere is to add changes then hit optimize multiple times until your plan stabilizes. Once it stops changing things around, I've found this is usually the plan we tend to go with. Also, if you get a plan you do like, but want to keep playing with it, save a copy! Just in case it never spits out that option you liked again.

Not exactly related to your question, but another touring plans tip. If you aren't already at the Relaxed walking speed, I'd set it one speed lower than you think you walk. This will build in some extra time in case something happens - you get stuck on a ride, really love something and decide to do it twice, etc. We are definitely fast walkers but set our plans to Average (I think? Whatever the next one down is) and we find it allows for some spontaneity that can sometimes get lost with a minute-by-minute plan.

 

[soniam]

One "advantage" of Touring Plans is that it's constantly taking in new data about FPs and crowds. Plus, it's a statistical model, not an absolute equation. So, you will see variances, especially month to month, week to week, as you get closer. Usually, by the last week or so, things are pretty consistent. I use both optimize and evaluate. Just depends upon which part and what we are doing.

 

[lentesta]

One "advantage" of Touring Plans is that it's constantly taking in new data about FPs and crowds. ...

If I had to guess, this is probably the cause of the OP. @kjs1976, let me know if I can help with anything.

 

[Davey Jones II]

I would move your 7DMT FP to later, maybe the evening when you're going to FL anyway. IMHO, 9-10 a.m. is too early for a FP because there are still rides with short stand by lines at that hour.

 

[LoopyDoopy]

There were two cases where I didn't use optimize. I know the developers swear up and down that all the criss-crossing is done for logical reasons and you should just trust it, but I had to put my foot down for AK. They had me going to the Lion King show and then hot-footing it over to the Nemo show right after. If you look at the AK map, that involves traveling to the complete opposite part of the park then travel back to the next attraction that happens to be near the Lion King show. AK isn't like MK where you can short cut through the middle.

 

[Davey Jones II]

There were two cases where I didn't use optimize. I know the developers swear up and down that all the criss-crossing is done for logical reasons and you should just trust it, but I had to put my foot down for AK. They had me going to the Lion King show and then hot-footing it over to the Nemo show right after. If you look at the AK map, that involves traveling to the complete opposite part of the park then travel back to the next attraction that happens to be near the Lion King show. AK isn't like MK where you can short cut through the middle.

Maybe it's because the plan assumes you'll only spend one day at AK? You can always see the shows on separate days, to avoid too much criss-crossing.