College: Who Pays - Parent or Kid?

[crisi]

I agree with those of you who point out that retirement money is not so easily regained. Much easier for a young adult to pay off a few student loans rather than have parents who are destitute in their golden years.

I really think this idea that "college is for all" mentality is for the birds. While I fully realize that is a very controversial statement, I think it's true. Not all kids are cut out for college and not all parents can afford to foot the bill, or even 1/2 the bill. Telling your children that they can pick anywhere they want is ludicrous to me, and unrealistic. There's nothing wrong with going to community college for awhile. Just because it's not the full college experience shouldn't matter I think. Paying thousands and thousands of dollars that most kids and parents don't have just to experience dorm life seems crazy to me. But I guess that depends on what you value college to be....I tend to think it's for higher education and not a social life. I'd rather my kids stay local, work part time while in college and graduate without massive debt. Why is living at home so undervalued it seems?

Interesting article and the soaring price of average college tuition:

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/13/news/economy/college_tuition_middle_class/index.htm

Does the full "college experience" matter? Of course it does. Is it important, necessary and vital that every person experience it or they will be failures at life, horrible human beings, absolutely not. And it has almost nothing to do with holding a job.

Some schools value the dorm experience so much that you must live in one your freshman year - even if Mom and Dad live three blocks from school. Students who live on campus have higher graduation rates statistically than those who don't (although it isn't really that simple, its possible that they types of kids who live at home are just less likely to graduate).

For me, I see dorm life as a good place for kids to transition to independence. They still get fed. They aren't completely independent - and RA and their roommates should keep a minimal eye on them. (And I send my daughter off to camp for the same reason). And if they live far from home to go to school, they are forced to make new friends and create a break from their old lives (which can be really important if those friends didn't go to college).

But it IS expensive and out of reach for a lot of people.

 

[snappy]

Our older DD went to a private university 70 miles away. Average tuition and room and board was $50,000 per year. She had scholarships for $32,000-to $35,00 the first 2 years, full tuition scholarship the last 2.

We had a small education IRA that my parents had set up for her, about $2,500, and used about $10,000 in I bonds that my mom gifted us in 2001 which had accumulated a fair amount of interest to help pay for the difference, and books, etc.

However, she did borrow about $22,000 over the years, mostly in the last year to take summer courses in Europe and to pay for the overage in the last year.

She worked part time throughout the 4 years to pay for her gas and fun money, including travel. We covered room and board in the dorm the first two years, and her portion of rent and utilities the last two (she tried to contribute to her rent some months but only was able to do that a few times). We also paid her car insurance. We were fortunate to be able to cover everything with disposable income, and did not take out any parent loans or borrow against our retirement.

It appears to have been a good investment as she has an internship in NYC that is transitioning into a full time position that she loves. She will be able to pay her loans.

Working throughout her college years seems to have gained her a good work ethic. Many of her peers from wealthy families did not work, so that irked her I am sure but she stuck it out.

She wants to go to grad school but that will have to be on her own dime. Our younger daughter is a high school junior and we are not getting any older. Hoping we keep our jobs going until 2018.

 

[luvthemouse71]

I agree with those of you who point out that retirement money is not so easily regained. Much easier for a young adult to pay off a few student loans rather than have parents who are destitute in their golden years.

I really think this idea that "college is for all" mentality is for the birds. While I fully realize that is a very controversial statement, I think it's true. Not all kids are cut out for college and not all parents can afford to foot the bill, or even 1/2 the bill. Telling your children that they can pick anywhere they want is ludicrous to me, and unrealistic. There's nothing wrong with going to community college for awhile. Just because it's not the full college experience shouldn't matter I think. Paying thousands and thousands of dollars that most kids and parents don't have just to experience dorm life seems crazy to me. But I guess that depends on what you value college to be....I tend to think it's for higher education and not a social life. I'd rather my kids stay local, work part time while in college and graduate without massive debt. Why is living at home so undervalued it seems?

Interesting article and the soaring price of average college tuition:

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/13/news/economy/college_tuition_middle_class/index.htm

Excellent post. Parents need to realize or jog their memory about what the "college experience" entails most of the time. Namely, binge drinking, dealing with a psycho roommate in a closet of a room, and skipping class because you're too hungover. Even the "good" kids do this stuff.

I think all college students should be expected to work, even part time, and help with expenses. They are adults at this point, after all. And, many of these schools are charging thousands based on a name on a sweatshirt.

I would not put myself into unmanageable debt so little Suzy can have the college "experience". Suzy can go to a good school that she will receive a good education in and she can work to at least put money towards textbooks and other expenses. And if her first year of grades suck, she's on her own after that point.

 

[westjones]

Excellent post. Parents need to realize or jog their memory about what the "college experience" entails most of the time. Namely, binge drinking, dealing with a psycho roommate in a closet of a room, and skipping class because you're too hungover. Even the "good" kids do this stuff.

Yep, that is the college experience

 

[Planogirl]

It isn't that it's undervalued, it is that in some situations, it isn't optimal.

My eldest NEEDS to go away to school. If he had the choice he would live at home with us forever; he likes his comfort zone way too much. Living away at school is a good way to ease into living independently, and he needs that. We prefer that he goes somewhere that is at least a 3 hour drive away, so that he won't be tempted to try to come home at the drop of a hat.

It isn't about friends at all; it's about learning to stand on your own two feet without Mom and Dad.

I am looking at the same situation. I've been mulling over pushing DS to live on campus even if he does decide to go the local college that he's interested in. He is going to a local community college to start out but then he needs to shift to a big college and hopefully also learn to be independent when he does that.

It will be costly though. I hope to pay for as much as possible and then we'll go from there.

 

[pigletto]

I've enjoyed this thread and am reading with interest. Dd is 15 and right now is really just starting to explore her options. I am the one suggesting she go away to school. She is the one suggesting that she'll attend the local University or college and live at home.
While it would save us money, she is somewhat shy and not particularly motivated to put herself out in the world. I also know that this could change considerably in the next 3 years.
Regardless, our plan (and I think I may have already posted on this thread) is if she shows that she is serious and willing to do the work then we will help as much as possible. Realistically she will have to work summers to save towards books and spending money. If she chooses to stay home, then she will need to put that money towards a vehicle and insurance and spending money. Her grades are decent, though I expect a big push in her senior years so she'll qualify for some grants/bursaries. I would like to pay all of her tuition/dorm costs and intend to try. However I don't intend to go into overwhelming debt to do so.
In the end she has to want it and be serious about it.

 

[LisaR]

I've enjoyed this thread and am reading with interest. Dd is 15 and right now is really just starting to explore her options. I am the one suggesting she go away to school. She is the one suggesting that she'll attend the local University or college and live at home.
While it would save us money, she is somewhat shy and not particularly motivated to put herself out in the world. I also know that this could change considerably in the next 3 years.
Regardless, our plan (and I think I may have already posted on this thread) is if she shows that she is serious and willing to do the work then we will help as much as possible. Realistically she will have to work summers to save towards books and spending money. If she chooses to stay home, then she will need to put that money towards a vehicle and insurance and spending money. Her grades are decent, though I expect a big push in her senior years so she'll qualify for some grants/bursaries. I would like to pay all of her tuition/dorm costs and intend to try. However I don't intend to go into overwhelming debt to do so.
In the end she has to want it and be serious about it.

She will likely change her mind as she gets a little older. It is amazing what a difference 1 or 2 years makes. We went last year (11th grade) to visit one of our state schools that is a 5 1/2 hour drive from home. DD was fine with the school but adamant that she did not want to go there because it was "way too far from home." Now she is a senior and looking at colleges that are much further away. She just grew up a little more and what was frightening a year ago seems like no big deal to her now.

 

[pigletto]

She will likely change her mind as she gets a little older. It is amazing what a difference 1 or 2 years makes. We went last year (11th grade) to visit one of our state schools that is a 5 1/2 hour drive from home. DD was fine with the school but adamant that she did not want to go there because it was "way too far from home." Now she is a senior and looking at colleges that are much further away. She just grew up a little more and what was frightening a year ago seems like no big deal to her now.

I think you're right. I already see changes in her that weren't there last year. She was a complete homebody.. now much more social. Cringed at the idea of dances etc.. now is picking out her Christmas formal dress. I also try not to count on her ideas for a career path right now because that has changed 3 times over the year too. With this one it's all about helping her keep her grades up and options open because she's still very much in transition

 

[crisi]

Excellent post. Parents need to realize or jog their memory about what the "college experience" entails most of the time. Namely, binge drinking, dealing with a psycho roommate in a closet of a room, and skipping class because you're too hungover. Even the "good" kids do this stuff.

I think all college students should be expected to work, even part time, and help with expenses. They are adults at this point, after all. And, many of these schools are charging thousands based on a name on a sweatshirt.

I would not put myself into unmanageable debt so little Suzy can have the college "experience". Suzy can go to a good school that she will receive a good education in and she can work to at least put money towards textbooks and other expenses. And if her first year of grades suck, she's on her own after that point.

And kids who live at home never binge drink or skip class

They might get out of living in a closet with a roommate though.

 

[disykat]

Excellent post. Parents need to realize or jog their memory about what the "college experience" entails most of the time. Namely, binge drinking, dealing with a psycho roommate in a closet of a room, and skipping class because you're too hungover. Even the "good" kids do this stuff.

That certainly wasn't MY experience at a small private school. Nor was it my son's last year in a dorm at a large state school. On most campuses you can read between the lines in their dorm information and pick a dorm that will suit your level of party interest.

My senior in high school is gravitating more towards dorms that say "highly social, etc." so he may have more of that experience. However, I'm willing to take a deep breath and trust that he'll handle it so he can go to a school that meets his major requirements - which aren't available locally.

Like I keep saying, parents who keep blindly paying for a child not doing their part is a parenting problem and they aren't doing their kids any favors. I don't know ANY parents in real life who don't have requirements regarding their kid's contributions. I'm guessing they must exist since people keep bringing it up though.

 

[luvthemouse71]

And kids who live at home never binge drink or skip class

They might get out of living in a closet with a roommate though.

Oh, of course they do, but probably not as much.

And there are plenty of parents who are completely clueless about what their kids do, and who baby them well into adulthood.

That first year of college is a doozy and it's not uncommon for the smartest or most angelic kid to flunk out. I had many friends who did this. They went to these expensive schools and then were back home in a year( in a couple of cases, six months), tail between their legs.

I just think that in today's economy, college needs to be less about the "experience" and more about practical concerns. The days of going to college, being able to get a Bachelor's degree in basket weaving, Art History, etc , and still being able to get a decent job later are long gone. We have people with Master's degrees bagging groceries.

A friend of mine is making her daughter start at the community college and then she can transfer after a couple of years. I think this is really smart. The girl is a good student but isn't sure what she wants to do yet.

 

[thumbalyna]

My days daughter is a freshman at an out of state "flagship" state school. She got a 10k scholarship to attend. She is responsible for any federal loans, i am paying any private loans. Freshman year we took a 6k loan to cover the difference and books and "extras". Im a single mom and i put her through private school her entire life. She understands our agreement and is fine with it.

 

[crazelion]

I knew if I want to go college . I had pay for it myself. I basically told go work out high school instead of college. I went to college for free with various grants, scholarships and etc. I have two degrees is working on third right now. I am going to school for free again.

 

[OCDdisneynut]

Our children lived away at school (state related). The best financial decision we made was to pay for their apartments out of pocket each month. Each maxed out the subsidized loans, then a took a small private loan that we co-signed , then we took a parent loan for the balance of the tuition. Each also got a part-time job. The only strings were that they maintain a certain g.p.a. Since room and board can almost double the total amount owed each year, this a good way of keeping down the overall cost of the college experience.

 

[crisi]

Oh, of course they do, but probably not as much.

And there are plenty of parents who are completely clueless about what their kids do, and who baby them well into adulthood.

That first year of college is a doozy and it's not uncommon for the smartest or most angelic kid to flunk out. I had many friends who did this. They went to these expensive schools and then were back home in a year( in a couple of cases, six months), tail between their legs.

I just think that in today's economy, college needs to be less about the "experience" and more about practical concerns. The days of going to college, being able to get a Bachelor's degree in basket weaving, Art History, etc , and still being able to get a decent job later are long gone. We have people with Master's degrees bagging groceries.

A friend of mine is making her daughter start at the community college and then she can transfer after a couple of years. I think this is really smart. The girl is a good student but isn't sure what she wants to do yet.

However, statistically, the kids who live on campus have significantly higher graduation rates than those who don't. So they may drink and some of them may flunk out (and I know my share who did as well), but if you play the odds, you are better off having your kid live at school.

In any economy you need to pay for what you can afford and not sacrifice your own future, or your children's, for the experience. However, you really sound like you want to justify that what you can afford is best - and it probably is for your family. However, there are lots of people who CAN afford to have their kids stay on campus. If you can, then you have to decide if that is the experience you want them to have. And while they might drink, they are more likely to graduate, more likely to go to graduate school, they build a structured independence, they integrate into the schools social life smoother - making them more likely to stay. Study after study - if you can have your kids live at school, they will be statistically better off.

By the way, I got drunk ONCE in college, enough to get a hangover, hated the hangover, and never got drunk again until I was in my late twenties. I hung with a group of people who didn't drink in college. I also had a steady boyfriend that I married (and later divorced).

Around here the community college has a 30% graduation or transfer rate....70% of the students don't make it through. And only a few of those 30% are prepared for a four year school - although the credits transfer, most simply can't pass the upper division coursework the first time with the background and study skills they have from community college. It can be a smart choice - here it would be a horrible choice if you play the odds.

I completely agree that college isn't for everyone, but the statistics tell you that while you might bag groceries with a Masters, you are more likely to have a job - more than twice as likely as those with no college degree, and half again as likely as those with some post secondary education, but no Bachelors. 4.1% unemployment for those with a Bachelors degree or higher, vs. 8.8% with a high school degree and 6.6% with "some college."

 

[DawnM]

Wow. That is an experience I never have had and I was in a dorm for 4 years. Dh didn't have those experiences either and he went to a large state school. He was there for 5 years (in a 5 year program.)

We all have different experiences and have made different choices.

Dawn

Excellent post. Parents need to realize or jog their memory about what the "college experience" entails most of the time. Namely, binge drinking, dealing with a psycho roommate in a closet of a room, and skipping class because you're too hungover. Even the "good" kids do this stuff.

I think all college students should be expected to work, even part time, and help with expenses. They are adults at this point, after all. And, many of these schools are charging thousands based on a name on a sweatshirt.

I would not put myself into unmanageable debt so little Suzy can have the college "experience". Suzy can go to a good school that she will receive a good education in and she can work to at least put money towards textbooks and other expenses. And if her first year of grades suck, she's on her own after that point.

 

[DawnM]

I agree. I do not know anyone with an MA who bags groceries, nor do I know that many with an MA who don't have a job. The ones who have lost jobs have found new ones within months.

DH nor I have ever had difficulty getting a job if we needed one (we both have MAs). I don't work now, but it is by choice. Dh has had several job offers without even applying (although he does have his resume on some professional website.)

Dawn

I completely agree that college isn't for everyone, but the statistics tell you that while you might bag groceries with a Masters, you are more likely to have a job - more than twice as likely as those with no college degree, and half again as likely as those with some post secondary education, but no Bachelors. 4.1% unemployment for those with a Bachelors degree or higher, vs. 8.8% with a high school degree and 6.6% with "some college."

 

[aprilgail2]

Honestly, I think if parents choose to have children...they should do so with the intention of equipping them to be successful in life---and in my opinion, that means going into it with the intent of seeing them through their undergraduate educations.

.

I agree--I had one child knowing that I could support her and send her through college. A second one would have been an issue with that. I started putting away money as soon as she was born and it comes out of my paycheck automatically each week. I would never want my child to begin her adult life with 100,000+ in debt. It was always understood though if she does not go to college that money is not automatically hers to go out and buy a car and go on trips- it reverts back to me to do what I see fit with it.

 

[LisaR]

However, statistically, the kids who live on campus have significantly higher graduation rates than those who don't. So they may drink and some of them may flunk out (and I know my share who did as well), but if you play the odds, you are better off having your kid live at school.

Do you have a link for that? I've searched and haven't been able to find anything that states that. What I did find is that college graduation rates are very low, period. Surprisingly low. And in some colleges that have higher graduation rates, those numbers are often fudged by the college to make their graduation rate look better.

I also saw drop out rates listed by type of college. Community college had the lowest graduation rate, 4 year state colleges were next, and 4 year private colleges had the highest graduation rate (somewhere between 50 - 60% depending on the year the survey was done).

From what I could find, most colleges track students with "live in college owned dorms" versus "live off campus." That could mean anything from commuting from parent's home, living in an apartment that is walking distance to the campus, or commuting from your own apartment. I couldn't see anywhere where colleges kept track of *where* the student lived but just the fact that it was "off campus."

Students seem to drop out for many reasons and I wasn't able to find anything to confirm that it is statistically higher for those that commute from home.

Edited to add that everything I looked at regarding college graduation rates was older (2000, 2001, 2004 was the latest). I think a lot more students are commuting now due to the economy, and it is way too soon to see how that pans out in terms of graduation rates since this is a rather new phenomenon.

 

[Patience]

However, statistically, the kids who live on campus have significantly higher graduation rates than those who don't.

And while they might drink, they are more likely to graduate, more likely to go to graduate school, they build a structured independence, they integrate into the schools social life smoother - making them more likely to stay. Study after study - if you can have your kids live at school, they will be statistically better off.

Around here the community college has a 30% graduation or transfer rate....70% of the students don't make it through.

Students who live on campus do have higher graduation rates than those who don't.

Also, regarding community college, in my area, they are very good if you are in a vocational program. The dental hygenist program, in particular, at our local community college is very good and there is a huge waiting list for it and it's hard to be accepted into it. However, I do not personally know a single child who went to our local community college for two years of general ed and was then able to transfer to a university and graduate. Again, this is at our local community college only and, of course, it only applies to the kids I know personally from my daughter's high school and from my niece and nephew's high schools who have gone to community college stating they were going to transfer after two years as a junior to a university. I believe it can be done but, honestly, at our local community college, I don't think it is all that likely.

I am sure a ton of people are probably now going to post that, on the other hand, they know a ton of kids who went to community college and then went on to successfully graduate from a wonderful university. I believe you. Really. I think community colleges vary a lot and some are good at getting kids ready for a university... and some aren't. It may vary by area and even by state. For my daughter, who was a strong student in high school with very good grades and test scores, I would have been sad if we couldn't send her to university as a freshman and she ended up at our local community college. We saved religiously so she could go to the state school (in state) of her choice. We saw her cheer her first college football game yesterday, by the way, and it was very fun, we were very proud and she is happy and healthy and is thriving at college so far.