Car accident/Insurance vent

[barkley]

This is one of the, if not the, reason auto insurance rates are so high. The two (plaintiff attorneys and rates) are directly related. It's certainly anyone's right to get one, but I don't know if people realize the connection.

Denise Ws' explanation is spot on.

clear cut rear ender accident- other driver admitted distracted driving to me/police/her ins/my ins so no arguments on liability.

ins company questioned for weeks repairs and wasted $$$$ on rental car-w/in 24 hours of attorney calling it was approved.
ins company questioned for months necessity of an mri on my knee-w/in 48 hours of attorney calling it was approved (and it was later determined that had the mri been done when first requested preventative treatment/pt/rehab could have occurred to greatly eliminate emergent need for surgery and subsequent permanent damage that will result in future total knee replacement).

if insurance companies were not so doubting/dismissive/delaying/condescending with their clients/claimants such that it requires the assistance of 'muscle' in the form of attorneys perhaps they could reduce the number of attorneys they have on retainer that contribute to high insurance rates.

 

[Gitts2008]

I am so sorry to read about your accident and dealings with the insurance company. I am in no way an expert on this situation and it looks like you have received some good advice so far like get a Lawyer. I urge you to not be the nice/kind one in this situation. I was the passenger in an accident. I got hurt. Both parties had the same insurance company. I was nice and cooperative to the insurance company. The insurance company essentially harassed me to just get better and within 6 weeks claimed that my injuries were not from the accident. I eventually hired a lawyer because I could not get better if they (ins. comp) decided that I was never hurt in the first place. They sent me to an IME (Independent Medical Exam, which is a dr who has never seen you before and decides within 30 seconds that the you are a faker). I was cut off from physical therapy and any additional services, so I hired a lawyer. Lawyers generally take 33 1/3% of the money awarded plus their fees. You are not being greedy if you sue. You are not being petty if you hire a lawyer. You are being forced to make important choices while not well. You need someone to help you and fight for what is right for you. I wish that I had hired a lawyer sooner bc the stress that the ins. co. caused me was very cruel on their part. Good Luck and all the best!! Remember take care of yourself, so that you can get better.

 

[ReneeA]

If you don't want to hire an attorney and are getting nowhere with the insurance company, file a complaint with your state's attorney general. Most states have online forms to fill out or a hotline to call. I was instructed to do it once when we were double billed by aol and they refused to refund the overage. The AG of Michigan added us to a class action lawsuit at the time and we received every penny back plus a few extra.

We have a rental property and a tree fell through the roof during a storm in January about 10 years ago. We had an Allstate landlord policy, so filed a claim. We had never filed a claim prior on any insurance policy ever, and haven't since. Allstate Had a "policy" and refused to send an adjustor out until the temperature stayed above 45° with no precipitation for 10 days for the "safety" of their employees. The person I was speaking to looked at a weather report for Michigan (in January!)and told me she could not schedule an adjustor due to weather for the next 10 days. I was aggravated, asked her where she was located - in Texas. I said to her, "There has never been, and will never be a stretch in Michigan with temps above 45° AND no precipitation. Ever. Besides, my husband works construction, and they have guys on roofs on new builds right now. Schedule and adjustor."

She refused - told me to call back in 10 days. In the meantime, I have renters in that house living with a tarp on the roof freezing! I was told by the roofing company that they wouldn't advise starting the repair until an adjuster came out because then we probably wouldn't have gotten reimbursed properly, or at all.

Called my insurance agent, he claimed we had to follow the cooperate rules and his hands were tied. Gave me a supervisor at corporate to call. Called her, got the same song and dance. So I let her know that I would be filling a complaint with the Michigan Attorney General's office the minute I got off the phone.

Dear God, I had resolution within 15 minutes. Allstate called me to set up an adjustor the next day. Shocking how they weren't concerned about a windy, 30° weather report after that. Had a check in my hands within a week and a roof repaired shortly after that. Ridiculous that consumers have to fight tooth and nail in order to be treated fairly.

 

[Hrhpd]

This is one of the, if not the, reason auto insurance rates are so high. The two (plaintiff attorneys and rates) are directly related. It's certainly anyone's right to get one, but I don't know if people realize the connection.

Denise Ws' explanation is spot on.

Maybe if some of the insurance companies offered fair and quick compensation, then lawyers would not be necessary and rates could remain lower. But insurance companies are just as guilty of out there to make a buck. They are hoping that someone is upset enough to accept their low ball offer without pushing back.

Trying to persuade/intimidate people that the insurance companies are not out to settle for the lowest amount they can shell out is why lawyers are retained.

That said, we have had extremely good luck with ours and they seem to be one of the very fair ones. Awhile back, we had a horrible hail storm with tons of damage. Our insurance company was the only company on the block that came out and immediately said they would just replace the whole roof. At the time it was a shake roof and they had recently been outlawed for fire protection. Our insurance company said they would rather insure a new, fire retardant roof, rather than do spot fixes on the shake roof and have to insure a shake roof.

Literally, every other person on the street had to retain lawyers to get their roofs fixed because their insurance companies hemmed and hawed and only wanted to replace the damaged shakes, against the new laws. Everyone had to incur expensive lawyer fees. And they ended up all having to replace the roofs.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

This is one of the, if not the, reason auto insurance rates are so high. The two (plaintiff attorneys and rates) are directly related. It's certainly anyone's right to get one, but I don't know if people realize the connection.

Insurance rates are so high because insurance companies are the biggest scammers out there. They will try and get out of paying a claim any way that they can. They make it very difficult for paying customers to get what is due to them.

OP-Hire an attorney. You need one.

 

[smokeyblue]

Personally, I totally disagree with this. I was hit in a parking lot a few weeks ago - I was sitting completely still and a guy backed into me. Somehow, his insurance determined that the accident was MY fault, even though I was not moving when the accident occurred and the other driver admitted (to me and to his insurance company) that he was at fault. So I'm stuck paying for my own repairs because I don't want to put a claim on my insurance and his insurance won't pay. That seems like taking advantage to me.

Not sure of the laws in your state, but could you at least take the driver to small claims court and recoup some of the repair cost?

 

[tvguy]

Insurance rates are so high because insurance companies are the biggest scammers out there. They will try and get out of paying a claim any way that they can. They make it very difficult for paying customers to get what is due to them.

OP-Hire an attorney. You need one.

There are scammers out there, but most of them are people who claim injuries when they have none. Or exaggerate their injuries. I did a ride a long with the California Highway Patrol and one of the crashes we responded to, there was no visible damage to the cars, but one person was demanding an ambulance. When we got back in the patrol car when it was cleaned up, the Officer looked at me and said, "those are what are known as insurance injuries. " Or people who think their car is worth a whole lot more than the actual cash value. Insurance industry is pretty tightly regulated, especially here in California, so hard for them to be the scammers.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Personally, I totally disagree with this. I was hit in a parking lot a few weeks ago - I was sitting completely still and a guy backed into me. Somehow, his insurance determined that the accident was MY fault, even though I was not moving when the accident occurred and the other driver admitted (to me and to his insurance company) that he was at fault. So I'm stuck paying for my own repairs because I don't want to put a claim on my insurance and his insurance won't pay. That seems like taking advantage to me.

To be fair you're not stuck paying for your own repairs..you have the opportunity to file a claim through your insurance you just don't want to involve them for fear of it being used against you. Which I get but it doesn't take away that you would likely have a better shot if you had filed with your insurance company and let them be the go between with the other insurance carrier as far as fault and negotiations. On the other hand small insurance claims like backing accidents may not amount to much damage to each other's cars so I get not wanting to file through your insurance company.

As to you being at fault that is interesting. Wonder what the diagrams showed, what the other insurance company's explanation was for why you were at fault, etc. Were the police called or was it dealt with without the police? Admitting fault doesn't necessarily mean someone is fully responsible for the accident. Personally all my insurance docs have always said "do not admit fault" though that instinct to do so is very hard to combat after an accident. Also a vehicle being stopped doesn't necessarily mean (as a generality) not at fault.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

OP I'm so sorry to hear about your accident. I'm glad though that the injuries weren't more severe. I would echo others in that I would suggest strongly to contact your insurance company. Honestly, I wouldn't think about a lawyer until you've done that and gone through that process with them. That is just me. I don't think a lawyer is the worst thing to do out there but I wouldn't hop on it without trying other avenues first.

 

[Klayfish]

if insurance companies were not so doubting/dismissive/delaying/condescending with their clients/claimants such that it requires the assistance of 'muscle' in the form of attorneys perhaps they could reduce the number of attorneys they have on retainer that contribute to high insurance rates.

I think this is a good example of the misunderstanding of how insurance works that causes such misguided anger. What you posted isn't really accurate, at least if I interpreted your post right...and maybe I didn't.

When a person hires an attorney, the claim doesn't go to an attorney on the insurance company side. It stays with the adjuster. An insurance attorney gets involved if a lawsuit is filed. Only about 5% of injury claims ever make it to suit. Therefore, 95% of files involving a plaintiff attorney never have legal expenses from the insurance company side. Of those 5% that do, maybe half get settled very early on, before pre-trial activities happen, keeping legal fees minimal. The rest typically get settled somewhere during the process before trial. Only a very, very small fraction of claims ever see the light of a courtroom or close to it. Those are the handful of claims that can rack up big legal fees. So yes, legal fees can be high, but it's not for reasons most people think. Insurance companies try very hard to minimize legal fees, often paying more than is owed, just to avoid incurring those legal costs.

Most larger insurance companies have staff counsel. They are salaried employees, just like an adjuster, underwriter or actuary. They don't get paid like outside attorneys do. Insurance companies do use outside attorneys as necessary, typically on the files that get beyond initial suit stages I mentioned. However, they aren't paid a retainer to be on "stand by". They only get paid if they do work. They usually have contracts with insurance companies that outline rates, guidelines, etc...and they don't include the defense firm getting paid retainer fees for just being available.

 

[Hrhpd]

I think this is a good example of the misunderstanding of how insurance works that causes such misguided anger. What you posted isn't really accurate, at least if I interpreted your post right...and maybe I didn't.

When a person hires an attorney, the claim doesn't go to an attorney on the insurance company side. It stays with the adjuster. An insurance attorney gets involved if a lawsuit is filed. Only about 5% of injury claims ever make it to suit. Therefore, 95% of files involving a plaintiff attorney never have legal expenses from the insurance company side. Of those 5% that do, maybe half get settled very early on, before pre-trial activities happen, keeping legal fees minimal. The rest typically get settled somewhere during the process before trial. Only a very, very small fraction of claims ever see the light of a courtroom or close to it. Those are the handful of claims that can rack up big legal fees. So yes, legal fees can be high, but it's not for reasons most people think. Insurance companies try very hard to minimize legal fees, often paying more than is owed, just to avoid incurring those legal costs.

Most larger insurance companies have staff counsel. They are salaried employees, just like an adjuster, underwriter or actuary. They don't get paid like outside attorneys do. Insurance companies do use outside attorneys as necessary, typically on the files that get beyond initial suit stages I mentioned. However, they aren't paid a retainer to be on "stand by". They only get paid if they do work. They usually have contracts with insurance companies that outline rates, guidelines, etc...and they don't include the defense firm getting paid retainer fees for just being available.

A good friend is a prominent insurance company defense attorney. Their yearly salary is well into the 7 figures. Works for a private firm and charges just like any lawyer. THAT is why our rates are so high. Not that I begrudge his salary, he works his tail off for it.

 

[Klayfish]

A good friend is a prominent insurance company defense attorney. Their yearly salary is well into the 7 figures. Works for a private firm and charges just like any lawyer. THAT is why our rates are so high. Not that I begrudge his salary, he works his tail off for it.

Sounds like your friend is outside counsel, as you said he works for a private firm. As I mentioned above, when outside firms are involved, it can definitely get expensive. Panel counsel isn't cheap, they're typically paid by the hour...in very large sums. And yes, I absolutely agree, they work very hard...I see it daily. I'm sure your friend puts in very long hours. But like I said, those cases are the 5% of all insurance claims, so they're on the far end of the bell curve.

Liability claims in general are the reasons why rates are so high. Legal defense costs are definitely a piece of that "liability claims" whole, but not the sole reason, or even the biggest one. One of the biggest factors is the "typical" liability claim where someone hires one of those plaintiff lawyers who advertise on TV or chase people down. For example...one car hits another in the rear, low speed impact. The driver of the car that got rear ended gets the TV lawyer. That lawyer sends them to their chiropractor friend. Chiro racks up $10,000 in questionable bills. That claim will settle for $15,000-$20,000, of which the attorney and chiro split the vast majority of the money. That claim is paid off of the policy of the person who caused the accident. That person may pay $3000/year in premiums, but that claim just cost $20k. Those claims never have a dime in defense costs, but they add up big time in settlement costs...and they're very, very common.

 

[RUDisney]

Right now, you don't know what you don't know. I had no broken bones after a T-bone accident in 2006. I found out that my triceps was 95% severed after 2 months of PT. I had to have an Achilles heal used to reattach my triceps. I had many, many medical bills. The lawyer was able to put off payments of coinsurance until the settlement was reached. It took years and the lawyer made sure that I was compensated for future medical events that could occur from the accident.

12 years later, I still have pain in my neck, shoulder and arm and tingling in my 2 ulnar fingers. If I had settled immediately, I'd be paying for everything on my own.

Get an attorney.

 

[AndreaDM]

Right now, you don't know what you don't know. I had no broken bones after a T-bone accident in 2006. I found out that my triceps was 95% severed after 2 months of PT. I had to have an Achilles heal used to reattach my triceps. I had many, many medical bills. The lawyer was able to put off payments of coinsurance until the settlement was reached. It took years and the lawyer made sure that I was compensated for future medical events that could occur from the accident.

12 years later, I still have pain in my neck, shoulder and arm and tingling in my 2 ulnar fingers. If I had settled immediately, I'd be paying for everything on my own.

Get an attorney.

Holy cow, that sounds horribly painful, so sorry you had to go through that!

Thanks everyone for your insight and advice, and I totally empathize with anyone else who has anxiety driving after an accident, I don't trust anyone to stop, period. The whole ordeal is just so overwhelming, first there is the accident itself, followed by police reports (I now have to go testify Dec. 4 because she plead not-guilty), insurance calls, attorneys, then the whole process of buying a new car where you're just SURE you're being taken advantage of. Ugh, just want everything to be settled soon and go on with my life. Of course now with a car payment I didn't have before.