Beyond Big Thunder

[Topaz Scorpio]

I was agreeing with you until you included Carousel of Progress. Pump your brakes kid, that ride's a national treasure. But it could use an update, and I think the Riverboat can stay if it's repurposed as Tiana's restaurant with maybe Louis playing music.

I’d move Carousel of Progress over to Epcot. Maybe the Hall of Presidents and Tiki Room too. All those classic but outdated attractions that need to be preserved but are taking up valuable real estate. Create some sort of Retro-Disney pavilion that chronicles the history of the parks and its attractions. Or maybe make that concept a whole separate entity called The Disney Museum?

 

[Topaz Scorpio]

Attractions shouldn't be "thrilling". They should be entertaining.

Those don’t have to be mutually exclusive terms.

 

[wabbott]

...and I think the Riverboat can stay if it's repurposed as Tiana's restaurant with maybe Louis playing music.

This idea intrigues me.

 

[Madteaparty001]

This idea intrigues me.

I imagine it similar to Paddlefish in Disney springs with an animatronic Louis playing in a corner similar to how the country bears work, or put him in the middle of the room like the Beauty and the Beast music box figurine at Be Our Guest. Want to up the price Disney? Make it a meet and greet with Tiana and Naveen. Hell, it could even be a quick service and Louis could be like Sonny Eclipse at Cosmic Ray's.

 

[OKW Lover]

Those don’t have to be mutually exclusive terms.

Agree. I was stating that because the OP didn't.

 

[starlite_]

I understand what you are saying. I'm not trying to pick a fight. Stupidity has nothing to do with this decision. Fear does.

You need to understand that TWDC is removing "racist" theming. Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer's Island cannot co-exist with TWDC's inclusion key (and desire to incorporate IP theming in their parks). There is literally no way. And, if TWDC chooses to expand MK, this is the perfect opportunity for TWDC to make significant changes to WDW to remove more "racist" theming.

If I was a betting man (and coincidentally I am) I'm thinking that TWDC believes that there is nothing inclusive about Tom Sawyer or the source material. Some schools have actually removed Tom Sawyer from cirriculum. Schools often cite racism or other inappropriate race based language concerns. It makes no sense to have a rethemed island if you are going to build around the north/northwest side of MK. Just eliminate the island, the boat and the river altogether and insert some IP (any IP) and call it fulfilling their goal for diversity and inclusivity. And, to buttress this argument, TWDC doesn't care if the new IP attraction is popular IP, see e.g. Tron:LR.

For anyone who reads this post and thinks that TWDC doesn't make decisions out of fear, go look at the history about the Israel pavilion in EP that never came to be. Fear is a motivation for TWDC to make decisions. I'm old enough to remember the billboard for Israel when I went to EP as a kid (my recollection was it was adjacent to the Morocco pavilion, but I was quite young and may mis-remember).

Removal of Tom Sawyer Island and Rivers of America is like Thanos...inevitable.

I agree that TWDC is removing racist theming, as it should. As society evolves I am glad Disney reflects that and our current more inclusive society.

Having said that, I would really appreciate it if you didn't put racist on quotes. Something is either racist or it isn't, "racism" isn't a thing.

 

[eandt]

It sounds like Encanto is going in at AK, so I doubt they will double-down on it.

Honestly, the one I'd like to see is Pocahontas. I doubt they will, but it would fit pretty well.

Should have themed Splash on Pocahontas

 

[wabbott]

I imagine it similar to Paddlefish in Disney springs with an animatronic Louis playing in a corner similar to how the country bears work, or put him in the middle of the room like the Beauty and the Beast music box figurine at Be Our Guest. Want to up the price Disney? Make it a meet and greet with Tiana and Naveen. Hell, it could even be a quick service and Louis could be like Sonny Eclipse at Cosmic Ray's.

I'm thinking it would still need to cruise, but at a lot slower pace, maybe two complete trips over the time of a meal. It is still a neat attraction to be on a semi-authentic steam-powered riverboat. I know it runs on rails, but that paddle wheel is the the real thing and it's what makes the boat go.

A sit-down meal would probably be better, and then maybe reprise the Golden Horseshoe Revue dinner show?

 

[1lilspark]

Isn't that the space for the rumored Haunted Mansion themed restaurant? Maybe that's how they open that area up?

I should have kept reading and I would have seen Brayden saying the restaurant is cancelled. Though the restaurant was never officially announced by Disney.

I always thought it would replace chh

 

[Elijah Abrams]

First, that's not what I think. I am not advocating removing these films from D+ and I do not advocate warnings or changes to the film either.

Second, you're suggestion that I think that is not warranted. I am on record that Splash Mountain shouldn't be rethemed to TBA and it is a mistake to retheme it.

Third, my reaction and opinions about TSI and related areas are based solely upon the direction I see TWDC headed using recent announcements (inclusion key and expansion of MK) and recent history (changes to JC, PoTC, CBJ, SPLASH, etc.) Frankly, I wouldn't at all be shocked if Liberty Square has planned changes too (e.g. stockades are removed and the 13 lanterns in liberty tree will be removed).

I honestly believe that TWDC sees the parks as better with these changes. I don't necessarily agree, andI don't think I am Bob Iger's burner account on the DIS Boards. Or am I?

I really feel like you should keep those opinions to yourself before Disney gets any ideas or before Walt's ghost comes to haunt you. They might be watching this forum.

It's inevitable, but not for the reasons you cite. Those attractions are on premium land, have outlived their utility, should be replaced to increase capacity and appeal to the current crowds.

It's not the 1950's anymore. Davy Crockett isn't on TV. Riding a steamboat around a fake island on a track isn't all that thrilling.

Some of these attractions like Tom Sawyer Island, The Liberty Square Riverboat, Carousel of Progress, Hall of Presidents, etc. have had a good run, but attendance is low and it's time to move on.

Disney should take a page from Silver Dollar City or even Tokyo Disneyland. Announce the attractions are closing in 1 year, have a 1 year "goodbye" event for them and close the book in a respectful way.

50+ years was a good run. These are theme parks, not museums.

Most people don’t come to Disney parks seeking thrills. They come to marvel at Walt's imaginations come to life, be impressed by the amazing animatronics, and have a fun time on the relaxing, gentle rides.

 

[Jwaire]

I really feel like you should keep those opinions to yourself before Disney gets any ideas or before Walt's ghost comes to haunt you. They might be watching this forum.

Most people don’t come to Disney parks seeking thrills. They come to marvel at Walt's imaginations come to life, be impressed by the amazing animatronics, and have a fun time on the relaxing, gentle rides.

I can express my opinions just as much as you can. If you don't want to read them, add me to your ignore list. Walt also didn't design Magic Kingdom, he was solely focused on EPCOT and left Magic Kingdom to WED.

“Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world. It is something that will never be finished. Something that I can keep developing and adding to.”

I'm pretty sure he never said let's keep everything the same forever and ever.

Modern Disney is an analytics company. I don't think it's any coincidence out of all the projects they've green lit over the last 10 years, most of them have been either outright e-ticket attractions or d-tickets. That tells me they know what they need to keep the parks competitive.

Flight of Passage
Rise of the Resistance
Millenium Falcon
Slinky Dog
Mickey & Minnie's Runaway Railway
Cosmic Rewind
Tron

Thrilling also isn't mutually exclusive from entertaining either. You can have a thrilling family ride. I consider Peter Pan thrilling. Where else are you going to get in a ship and fly over London? Slinky Dog definitely falls in the family thrilling category, which is why it's so popular. Same with Seven Dwarfs Mine Train.

We were there over the busy Christmas season, the park is completely packed and yet there's no-one in Carousel of Progress, Laugh Floor, the Tiki Room or the Riverboat. Everything else has 60-120 minute waits. That tells me it's time to modernize or let some of the underperforming attractions go.

COP belongs in Disneyland, where maybe it will be better taken care of, or even better The Walt Disney Museum.

 

[Einstein509]

I'm slowly coming to the realization that Bob Iger/senior DIS management care little about what we muggles who cruise and attend parks think or say. We're but sheep to be shorn for the wool. Nothing more.

He's way above us, and pays attention to what the Hollywood Elite tell him. His entire professional career has been that way ever since he started as a TV weatherman. He ain't gonna change.

Based on what Iger has been doing lately, I think I need to change my pic to reflect his name and not Chapek's.

 

[wabbott]

I imagine it similar to Paddlefish in Disney springs with an animatronic Louis playing in a corner similar to how the country bears work, or put him in the middle of the room like the Beauty and the Beast music box figurine at Be Our Guest. Want to up the price Disney? Make it a meet and greet with Tiana and Naveen. Hell, it could even be a quick service and Louis could be like Sonny Eclipse at Cosmic Ray's.

Welp, bad news for our ideas, it looks like. Late yesterday afternoon, we rode The Liberty Bell, and it just simply is too small for what we want to do.

Much of the cargo (lower) deck is taken up by the steam boiler. No room there for a bar or dining room.

The "Texas deck" is too small, also, with much area taken up for the stairwells to the cargo deck and the Hurricane (upper) deck. I'm sure when the boats were designed, stairs got priority to facilitate speedy loading and unloading.

I suppose the decks could be rebuilt with a larger dining area, but that would greatly spoil the looks and authenticity of the boat.

The good news is there seems to be many guests who still ride the boats. Yesterday, the park itself was not crowded at all, but when we went aboard, there was a decent crowd. Just about all the rail space was occupied. I'm guessing there were 100+ on board.

Back to the drawing board...

 

[Madteaparty001]

Welp, bad news for our ideas, it looks like. Late yesterday afternoon, we rode The Liberty Bell, and it just simply is too small for what we want to do.

Much of the cargo (lower) deck is taken up by the steam boiler. No room there for a bar or dining room.

The "Texas deck" is too small, also, with much area taken up for the stairwells to the cargo deck and the Hurricane (upper) deck. I'm sure when the boats were designed, stairs got priority to facilitate speedy loading and unloading.

I suppose the decks could be rebuilt with a larger dining area, but that would greatly spoil the looks and authenticity of the boat.

The good news is there seems to be many guests who still ride the boats. Yesterday, the park itself was not crowded at all, but when we went aboard, there was a decent crowd. Just about all the rail space was occupied. I'm guessing there were 100+ on board.

Back to the drawing board...

I haven't been on it in so long, a decade at least, I have only the vaguest memory of what the inside looks like. I guess if it isn't broke don't fix it.

 

[starlite_]

COP belongs in Disneyland, where maybe it will be better taken care of, or even better The Walt Disney Museum.

No, thank you. We passed it to WDW in 1973, no take backs!

 

[zackiedawg]

For access in and out of the new expansion area, it seems like they could convert Caribbean Way into an access point, reroute the train around the outside of the expanded area with another stop in the new section, and then use the current train track path next to Big Thunder to circle back in. That would give two entry points both right around the Caribbean Way where Frontierland Station is now...move Frontierland Station to before Tiana's, and also have a new train station/stop in the new land. They'd have to relocate the paddlewheeler service area and a few smaller service buldings, but wouldn't mess with the water treatment or float storage areas and wouldn't have to mess with the Haunted Mansion area or Rivers of America. Just thinking out an idea.

 

[rstevens333]

and the 13 lanterns in liberty tree will be removed).

I don't follow your logic there. Is it because some of the colonies were slave states?

 

[The Jackal]

I can’t wait for 2032 to come so we can go to this addition to the MK.

 

[eandt]

I can’t wait for 2032 to come so we can go to this addition to the MK.

Cake bake shop and the corn dog stand might even be open by then

 

[1lilspark]

I can’t wait for 2032 to come so we can go to this addition to the MK.

Hey at least if it does end up being villains related it could be a fun spot to view the 2045 eclipse