Are any Disney guests average income people?

[RamblingMad]

For those who are asking, here’s what Chapel said.


“AS YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT GUESTS, DEPENDING ON WHERE THEY ARE COMING FROM, HAVE DIFFERENT RELATIVE VALUES IN TERMS OF THEIR CONTRIBUTION AS A GUEST TO THE PARK. TYPICALLY SOMEONE WHO TRAVELS AND STAYS FOR 5-7 DAYS IS MARGINALLY MORE VALUABLE TO THE BUSINESS THAN SOMEONE WHO COMES IN ON AN ANNUAL PASS AND STAYS A DAY OR TWO AND CONSUMES LESS MERCHANDISE AND FOOD AND BEVERAGE.”

Disney CEO Bob Chapek, August 4, 2020

I wonder how many value points I get. This feels super creepy. It's like Disney has put a number on each of it. What's your relative value?

 

[CharlotteStreet]

Can an average income family afford to visit Disney annually? Probably not, unless they sacrificed a lot. But I think this has always been true. Growing up in the 80’s in Texas, my parents had an average income and we could barely afford to vacation at all. The best we could do was the local amusement park or an in-state beach every year or so. I never even left the state or rode an airplane until I was 10 or 12. This was typical. I only knew two families who went to Disney World when I was growing up, and they each only went one time. One was the family of a prominent local attorney, and the other was a family I babysat for who went to Florida yearly to visit family. In my town, it was unheard of to visit Disney annually back then. People travel much more now—which is why Disney and other vacation spots like national parks are all crazy crowded.

 

[LovesTimone]

` This is interesting. You are the 2nd person whom I have heard mention
this. The first was from someone that works at Disney though she didn't
elaborate.

Why would anyone want to have multiple my disney accounts? I mean
has it really come to this?

First off there are rules for the board... and touting how to get around the rules is something that is not done...and will get you kicked off the board...

Plus for me I feel like doing something like this is just dishonest... so I just stay away from stuff like this...

Yet people getting around the guidelines and rules is done... Our friends that work for Disney said you would be surprised at what people will do, they have some stories for sure...

I will say it makes me wonder why they suspended the VQ at the Star Wars ride... My DD works as a server, at a more upscale restaurant here in Orlando, and a couple of the guys that work there were bragging that they rode it 4 or 5 times in one day... which I really wonder how, considering, that we still haven't gotten to ride it yet...

 

[LovesTimone]

Ok so we are pirate pass holders we paid 700 each for 4 we went last weekend for two days and stayed about 3 hours each day and spent about $250 in food and a toy and spent the night in a local hotel - non Disney.

When I went before I was an AP and out of state... we took our lunch spent about the same per day but we were there all day... hotels could be on or off grounds depending on the price.

So looking back over this year, We have spent 8 nights which is less than we normally stay by this time in the previous years, we have 2 or 3 more stays planned for the rest of this year. (A 1 nighter and 2 nighter for sure, and possible a 3rd - 2 nighter if our friends decide to pull the trigger if not most likely 1 night) We like to stay in the bubble... even though we live less than 20 minutes away.

Each of these stays, and upcoming stays include TS dinning which we did for most meals, for a few reasons I have a food allergy and getting some clarification on some of the food items was beyond difficult, as well we hate mobile ordering... Just hate it...

I also know that we bought merchandise, some Passholder merch... as well as other stuff, T-shirts, and a other things like coffee cups which I am drinking out of right now... plus I have a Pandora Disney addiction, and a grandson who loves Star Wars, and legos... so lots of stuff...

This doesn't include just going into the park for the evening, or lunch or dinner at Disney Springs... and with all of those visit we normally buy something... I got lucky and got some 50th merch a few weeks ago... Woo Hoo!!!

 

[ctl]

Well exactly. He is referring to the AP holder who may pop in 10 to 20 times a year, but only spends 1 to 2 nights per year in a hotel and consuming a days worth of food. I am making an assumption here, but I would imagine that their are far more of these than local APs who spend 5 to 10 days a year on property staycationing.

Of course if an AP holder is spending as much or more money than a vacationer, then they want those guests. I think the caveat is how long it takes them to break even. For example, if a local AP needs to spend 30 days in the parks just to spend the same as a 5 day vacationer, they will prioritize the vacationer.

I'm an AP holder, have been since 1996. I travel from out of state to WDW and stay for 10 days on a regular annual basis . So I was spending on a WDW hotel room, all meals on Disney, never left WDW and bought lots of presents to take home. So how exactly am I different than someone who comes for 5-7 days without an AP? This year I am not going to WDW because I am fed up with Bob Chapek and the reduction in value for my money at WDW. In 2019 I bought DVC (what a mistake! COVID hit and I have yet to stay at RR). I am going to Universal and staying on site for a week for the first time. I am so done with Chapek and WDW. I am holding my DVC until it goes up in price and then I'm selling.

 

[Miffy]

I noticed that Chapek said "marginally more valuable," so I'm not really sure how to take that. If it's marginal, how significant is it? Perhaps not very.

 

[jujubiee4]

I will say it makes me wonder why they suspended the VQ at the Star Wars ride... My DD works as a server, at a more upscale restaurant here in Orlando, and a couple of the guys that work there were bragging that they rode it 4 or 5 times in one day... which I really wonder how, considering, that we still haven't gotten to ride it yet...

My cousin was there with her family were there end of summer. While
checking out at the hotel the guy behind her said he rode it 3 times the
day before and twice the previous day. My cousin could not get a time
each day they tried. She is not a huge SW fan so wasn't a big deal but did
make me wonder.

As far as how long people go. 1 week maximum for us. Partly because we
split with a UO stay. Even if we didn't not sure i would stay longer than
5 or 6 days and we fly cross country. I can stomach a lot of the changes
but the REDUCTION of park hours is the one that really gets to me. I miss
the days of closing at midnight or 1am INCLUDED with park ticket.

 

[jujubiee4]

I do wonder how young families do it though. We could not comfortably
afford it until our kids were in middle/high school. Then we went once
or twice a year. Even with having local AP's for DL we liked WDW

When the kids were real young? No way no how could we afford it. It wasn't
even a thought. I know Pete mentioned the term DINK. Double income no
kids. Never heard the term until the podcast. Definitely a real thing. My brother
is there with his gf. No kids. He texted they are having so much fun they decided
to add another week to their original week visit.

They can do that. He has his own business and she works from home so brought
her laptop. She has never been to WDW and my brother has gone once years ago.

 

[snikki]

I do wonder how young families do it though. We could not comfortably
afford it until our kids were in middle/high school. Then we went once
or twice a year. Even with having local AP's for DL we liked WDW

When the kids were real young? No way no how could we afford it. It wasn't
even a thought. I know Pete mentioned the term DINK. Double income no
kids. Never heard the term until the podcast. Definitely a real thing. My brother
is there with his gf. No kids. He texted they are having so much fun they decided
to add another week to their original week visit.

They can do that. He has his own business and she works from home so brought
her laptop. She has never been to WDW and my brother has gone once years ago.

It was much easier and cheaper to take our kids when they were younger. I remember the “good ole days” with deep discounts. 2008-2011 we went about every year and never paid more than 3k for a full week at a moderate with DDP for a family of 4. Then the kids got older and we did one last family trip in 2015. This was double the cost of our previous trips. Older kids, small rooms, adult ticket and food prices and higher prices across the board and that has been our last family trip to Disney.

For all of us to go now we would need to get two rooms or the kids will kill each other which is even more money. Then the cost of food for 4 “adults.” I’m not against offsite but we go to Disney for the full experience. If we have to stay offsite we would probably pick a different vacation destination.

Since then my son is over Disney and I’ve been going with just DD. We do other vacations as a family which we get way more bang for our buck. That’s how we afford to keep going now that our kids are older. We also only go every 2-3ish years. It is a pricey vacation.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

I'm an AP holder, have been since 1996. I travel from out of state to WDW and stay for 10 days on a regular annual basis . So I was spending on a WDW hotel room, all meals on Disney, never left WDW and bought lots of presents to take home. So how exactly am I different than someone who comes for 5-7 days without an AP? This year I am not going to WDW because I am fed up with Bob Chapek and the reduction in value for my money at WDW. In 2019 I bought DVC (what a mistake! COVID hit and I have yet to stay at RR). I am going to Universal and staying on site for a week for the first time. I am so done with Chapek and WDW. I am holding my DVC until it goes up in price and then I'm selling.

I'm responding to you because you directly responded to me. But this is really directed to everyone who has been posting along the lines of "I'm an AP holder and I stay X amount of nights every year and spend Y dollars. I'm just as/if not more valuable than the typical vacation traveller."

Anything I am saying about AP holders providing Disney less profit than vacationers is a generalization. It is not meant to be a direct attack, or assumption about any individual and their travelling/spending habits. The point is, if you look at the entirety of the two groups (Local AP holders vs Vacation travellers) the TOTAL $ spent per day in the park is likely to be exponentially higher for the vacation traveller. It doesn't mean that you as an individual AP holder spend less than me as a vacationer.

Also, given the passionate responses in this thread, it may seem that my assumption is way off base. I don't believe that is true. I believe what we are seeing is a clear cut sample bias.

1) we are already getting a sample bias by being on a Disney message board. The people on here discussing this stuff are already much more likely to spend a lot more money at WDW than the typical guest.

2) we are having a discussion about the monetary value of certain guests. The side of "I'm an ap holder who goes to the parks 300 days a year, bring my own food, never stay in a hotel, and ride everything every time I go" is not likely to illicit the same level of response as the "I am just as valuable as them" response. In other words, the forum provides a platform for the loud minority.

All of this to say, none of us actually know what the numbers truly say. We are all making assumptions, and bring our own biases

 

[EveV]

I have to say as a family of three (is DISK-- dual income single kid, a word?!), we have been going regularly since our daughter was born. We had AP's, bought a few DVC contracts, and always lived in an expensive area, until we moved to Florida, but live near Disney so that didn't change too much lol. To pay up front (DVC) and always have had to budget for expensive meals, clothes, transportation etc-- is normal for us. We do travel a lot and dine out, but we had kids later (in our 30's) and had careers, savings, and focused on how we might reduce the yearly outlay. Even our airlines tickets are fully paid for with points a couples times a year. I think what others see as extreme planning and leveraging of financial products (points, memberships, discounts, conventions, client visits, etc) is fairly common for us. And, perhaps a lot of folks you see walking around the parks, do this as well. Just a idea-- I think a good number of folks do this.

 

[hhisc16]

I have to say as a family of three (is DISK-- dual income single kid, a word?!), we have been going regularly since our daughter was born. We had AP's, bought a few DVC contracts, and always lived in an expensive area, until we moved to Florida, but live near Disney so that didn't change too much lol. To pay up front (DVC) and always have had to budget for expensive meals, clothes, transportation etc-- is normal for us. We do travel a lot and dine out, but we had kids later (in our 30's) and had careers, savings, and focused on how we might reduce the yearly outlay. Even our airlines tickets are fully paid for with points a couples times a year. I think what others see as extreme planning and leveraging of financial products (points, memberships, discounts, conventions, client visits, etc) is fairly common for us. And, perhaps a lot of folks you see walking around the parks, do this as well. Just a idea-- I think a good number of folks do this.

As a fellow DISK with DVC in our late 20s, I understand your point of view.
Going to WDW is expensive and always has been. Cheapek is just making it more expensive very quickly with less value.
Since we own DVC and Disney is my family's hobby, we will just do the one trip a year to WDW and drive on a short stay to save money. (Cheaper DVC point seasons in a studio)
We are both teachers, so that shows the income level of USA average.

 

[pineapplepalms]

I have to say as a family of three (is DISK-- dual income single kid, a word?!), we have been going regularly since our daughter was born. We had AP's, bought a few DVC contracts, and always lived in an expensive area, until we moved to Florida, but live near Disney so that didn't change too much lol. To pay up front (DVC) and always have had to budget for expensive meals, clothes, transportation etc-- is normal for us. We do travel a lot and dine out, but we had kids later (in our 30's) and had careers, savings, and focused on how we might reduce the yearly outlay. Even our airlines tickets are fully paid for with points a couples times a year. I think what others see as extreme planning and leveraging of financial products (points, memberships, discounts, conventions, client visits, etc) is fairly common for us. And, perhaps a lot of folks you see walking around the parks, do this as well. Just a idea-- I think a good number of folks do this.

We are in a similar situation. We have young kids but we had them later starting in our 30s. If we had had them in our 20s we could not travel with them the way we do now, since we were in grad school and then saving for a wedding and a house. Now we have 3 young kids from infant to 5yo and it’s actually more affordable now when they’re young since so far we’ve only had to pay for tickets for the oldest. By our next trip our second will also need a ticket, and it will only get more expensive as they get older and eat/do more. We usually pay for flights with credit card rewards. We have APs and DVC. We also live in a very expensive area so we haven’t experienced the same level of sticker shock with Disney prices. For example, we went to a local pumpkin patch for an hour or so and it cost $80 for 4 tickets (baby was free). Afterwards we had dinner at a casual place with $15-20 burgers and sandwiches, and they were really basic and nothing special. Disney is definitely expensive, but I feel like we get a lot out of it.

As for income level, I believe we’re above average but our area is so expensive it doesn’t really feel like it. The average home price is over a million and that’s typically for a smaller home that needs work and isn’t in the best school district.

 

[Disneyfan754321]

I do wonder how young families do it though. We could not comfortably
afford it until our kids were in middle/high school. Then we went once
or twice a year. Even with having local AP's for DL we liked WDW

When the kids were real young? No way no how could we afford it. It wasn't
even a thought. I know Pete mentioned the term DINK. Double income no
kids. Never heard the term until the podcast. Definitely a real thing. My brother
is there with his gf. No kids. He texted they are having so much fun they decided
to add another week to their original week visit.

They can do that. He has his own business and she works from home so brought
her laptop. She has never been to WDW and my brother has gone once years ago.

A lot of the millennials fall into this category
(dink) all of my older kids do. The millenials are travelers they want to experience Places, Food and drink. My boys especially like the latter with the collection on shirts and glasses from brewery across the nation. Epcot was a perfect fit.

 

[Disneyfan754321]

We are in a similar situation. We have young kids but we had them later starting in our 30s. If we had had them in our 20s we could not travel with them the way we do now, since we were in grad school and then saving for a wedding and a house. Now we have 3 young kids from infant to 5yo and it’s actually more affordable now when they’re young since so far we’ve only had to pay for tickets for the oldest. By our next trip our second will also need a ticket, and it will only get more expensive as they get older and eat/do more. We usually pay for flights with credit card rewards. We have APs and DVC. We also live in a very expensive area so we haven’t experienced the same level of sticker shock with Disney prices. For example, we went to a local pumpkin patch for an hour or so and it cost $80 for 4 tickets (baby was free). Afterwards we had dinner at a casual place with $15-20 burgers and sandwiches, and they were really basic and nothing special. Disney is definitely expensive, but I feel like we get a lot out of it.

As for income level, I believe we’re above average but our area is so expensive it doesn’t really feel like it. The average home price is over a million and that’s typically for a smaller home that needs work and isn’t in the best school district.

Wow it is pricey where you live. I live in South Florida... everything is expensive here too.
Our 1900sq foot house is 600k

 

[jujubiee4]

It was much easier and cheaper to take our kids when they were younger. I remember the “good ole days” with deep discounts. 2008-2011 we went about every year and never paid more than 3k for a full week at a moderate with DDP for a family of 4.

Sigh. Can that even be done now? I guess with staying offsite and penny pinching?
lol Even then I wonder. Those were definitely the days!

 

[rjb123]

When my children were younger (preschool and very early elementary ages) I budgeted and saved hard for our every other year trip. I held garage sales, resold nicer clothing on eBay, used coupons and figured out how to squeeze every red cent I had to get our vacation $$. This was THE vacation we had. The ONLY one. As a hospice nurse and my husband a small business owner, at that time we didn't have money to blow. I worked nights and cared for the kids during the day because day care was too expensive. yes, I went without regular sleep for many years. literally. Now we are in a very different financial place due to a ton of hard work and sacrifice and frankly some good old fashioned luck and we can afford to go whenever. I don't think that the cost squeezing is new at all- plenty of real people simply couldn't afford to go and do all the time. I remember looking at FB and seeing people take fancy spring break, fall break, winter break summer break trips forty million times a year and feeling sad that that was not our life. Now I suspect that we appreciated those special trips SO much more because of the saving and specialness of them.

 

[PrincessNelly]

I think for us, Disney is absolutely considered a luxury trip but it has lost its value to us overtime.

When we first started our annual trips to WDW 10 years ago. Value resorts we $85/night, Moderates were $120/night, & Deluxes $180/night. You could get free dining, parking was free, and tickets weren't bad. We actually felt that the experience exceeded what we paid. As time went on, we've found ourselves finding other means to save for disney to justify the experience - discounted gift cards, cutting back on eating out, picking up side gigs (travel agent) to cover some of the cost. It became much more crowded and its become less enjoyable having to schedule fast passes & park reservations.

Recently, as I was pricing a trip for a client, I came across Pop century for $275/night & CBR for $384/night and it was disappointing. Even with the skyliner & room upgrades, for me, Pop or CBR don't offer enough value for that price. Disney has limited evening extended hours to deluxe guests only while guests paying $600+/night for club level suites in gran destino tower get 30 minutes in the morning with all other resort guest - that seems unfair. no? Not to mention 30 minutes is barely enough time to walk & wait for one ride.

We are APs and have flexible PTO, so we can take advantage of last minute or cheap DVC rentals. If it wasn't for that we would not be able to afford to visit as often as we do.
I think thats why the discussion has gain more traction. Even high income earners know when they aren't getting what they paid for. I think people are just curious how high prices can go at this point.

 

[MikeTaylor]

Some folks who are APs actually stay on property, eat in the parks (and/or at the resort), and yes, purchase merchandise. We let ours lapse because of 2 things: the uncertain future of how the virus would affect the experiences and the only new thing that would be opening in the near future was Remy at EPCOT (also 220 restaurant rumors).

We're waiting until Guardians and TRON are open before considering buying an AP again. Hopefully, a C&H replacement attraction in the Dinoland USA area will be operational at that time as well.

 

[TinkSassy]

I used to stay at a value resort - could get a sale to keep it about $100-$120 night easily. Plus transport to/from the airport and all ground transport was included. I could choose more economical food options (I usually packed oatmeal in my bag for breakfast). So a long weekend - while not cheap was totally doable while staying in the WDW bubble. I am not high income and only can dream of staying at the Deluxe hotels.

Value resorts are at double that old rate right now and transport from the airport is not included. If I chose a rental car vs a shuttle service then I have to pay to park at the hotel.

I'm still going in November - but let's just say Disney is getting a much smaller chunk of my money than they could. I'm staying off site with a rental car - so I don't pay parking and I also have a kitchen to keep food cost down. My hotel is close enough that a round trip uber/lyft will be cheaper than parking. But seeing as I have a car - I will be going to see other attractions that I don't normally go to because I was cozy in my Disney transportation bubble. Hmmmmm.