Animal Kingdom Lodge – Innovative or Well Done

[Another Voice]

To maintain a level sanity in the wandering threads, I’m going to split this one off from the “Disappointing News - Primeval Whirl” thread. I’ll start by clipping out the salient comments:

Captain Crook:
What was the DAKL, chopped liver? I know it's 'just' a resort, but please, what else compares to the breadth, grandeur & scheme put forth?

Another Voice:
Compared to the breadth, grandeur and schemes that had been planned for the Mediterranean Resort or even the “moderate” Buffalo Junction – Animal Kingdom Lodge does come off as nothing but a well decorate Hilton. There’s nothing unique about the structure or layout. Yes, it’s a very nice hotel from what I’ve seen. But it also didn’t set a very high bar either.

There’s a huge difference between being “innovative” and being “well-done”. A standard box hotel, no matter how much stuff they nail to the walls or how many animals they cage out back, really isn’t innovative. So much COULD have been, but Disney lack the courage to try.

DVC-Landbaron:
Ah, that's easy, Captain! Wilderness Lodge. To which it is almost identical!! Sure wish they would have changed it a little bit. Don't you?

Lesley:
Landbaron, have you been to AKL? It really is wonderful....and is not nearly identical to WL. Both are beautiful,

Another Voice:
Compared to the breadth, grandeur and schemes that had been planned for the Mediterranean Resort or even the “moderate” Buffalo Junction – Animal Kingdom Lodge does come off as nothing but a well decorate Hilton. There’s nothing unique about the structure or layout. Yes, it’s a very nice hotel from what I’ve seen. But it also didn’t set a very high bar either.

There’s a huge difference between being “innovative” and being “well-done”. A standard box hotel, no matter how much stuff they nail to the walls or how many animals they cage out back, really isn’t innovative. So much COULD have been, but Disney lack the courage to try.

DVC-Landbaron:
Yes I have. And you are right. I like it. Sort of. But, I was referring to lobby portion I suppose. To me it was very reminiscent of WL. Maybe I’m wrong (wouldn’t be the first time) but from the moment I walked in I was just slightly disappointed that the lobby, with minor changes and of course theme details, looked, and felt the same as WL. Doesn’t anyone else see the rather overt similarities?

Lesley:
Ah, yes, some small similarities...it was designed by the same architect wasn't it? I'll admit I felt some "okay, so this is it" at first but as I explored more I found more little things that I love...the firepits, the different levels that I didn't really expect, the cool things that can be found when you venture down the hallways.

Really, I'm curious as to why AV refers to this as a "decorated Hilton" or "standard box hotel". Please tell us, AV! I really want to visit these places that make AKL look so average.

Captain Crook:
Voice, excuse me for saying so but now you're comparing 'innovation' & 'well done', there are just too many eggs to fry here. I'm with Lesley, the AKL is extraordinary. It has a zoo for goodness sake. The layout, the landscaping, man it's darn near perfect, IMO...And while you can see distinct similarities with the WL & probably the GC, it is unto itself as an African Savannah Hotel in the heart of central Florida.

Gcurling:
AV, with all due respect... I value your insight and perspective a great deal. Never does a post of yours go unread by me. I do put alot of stock in what you say. However, when your abhorrence of current management shines through so strong as to make an absurd comment like this, well it's just disappointing. Surely you cannot believe this.

 

[Another Voice]

“Innovative” means to be different, unique, to create a new experience. “Well Done” means to take an existing format and produce it better than others have. Animal Kingdom Lodge falls into the well done category. That doesn’t mean it’s bad, but it does mean that it’s a very good example of what other people have created.

The entire “themed hotel” concept was probably pioneered by Disney with the Polynesian way back in 1971. Since them many, many people have gotten into to business. In fact Las Vegas has probably pushed the concept to the limit. The Strip is nothing but a set of basically identical buildings decorated with different knick-knacks: a mini-Eiffel Tower and you get the ‘Paris’, a few parrots get you ‘Mandalay Bay’, you know the drill. Some of the hotels are really well done (like the Venetian), but none give the guest anything more than a “hotel” experience.

The Animal Kingdom Lodge is a very standard hotel building decorated very nicely. The lobby art is nice, the firepits are nice, the wall lights are nice – but it’s still very much a hotel. The animals out back are an added attraction, but it’s the same concept that any resort with a view offers: a view of the ocean at Hilton Head or Hawaii, the forests in Yosemite or even the New York skyline. Even the resorts in Vegas have their animal pens. But the experience is all pretty much the same: long corridors leading to my room with the nice color television and overpriced room service that’s all very pleasant to look at.

To be truly innovative, Disney needed to offer a different experience instead of just different decoration. If the goal was to “stay with the animals” then why not give me that experience instead of giving me animals to look at as long as I stayed in an upgraded room? Why not create a concept like the Treehouse Villas? Scatter small clusters of rooms among the savannah and REALLY make me feel I’m surrounded by wildlife. Instead of one more soaring vault lobby (which don’t exist in Africa), why not a village that housed guest services? How about a REAL outdoor African marketplace and restaurant instead of a hotel dinning room that’s been decorated to look like one? How about a bunch of huts to stay in? Or how about real tents that you could “take on safari” (think about how popular those zoo sleepovers are with kids – now image that done Disney style)?

Disney set out to make a good hotel and the succeeded. However, had they set out to “create an innovative experience for our guests”, they could have created something so much better. I’m not here to bash Animal Kingdom Lodge, just to remind people that even more can be (and should be) accomplished.

 

[JeffJewell]

I’m not here to bash Animal Kingdom Lodge, just to remind people that even more can be (and should be) accomplished.

...I agree with AV on this one. In fact, I probably could have used his closing sentence at the end of about 90% of my posts... simply replacing "Animal Kingdom Lodge" with "Animal Kingdom," "DinoRama," "Journey Into Your Imagination," or whatever it was that people assumed I was just "bashing," at the time.

Jeff

 

[DisOrBust]

You have a point and your ideas are interesting but are they obtainable?? Somethings can not be done due to Mothernature, building codes and cost. I have stayed at AKL and truely thought it was a great "experience" . It may not be Africa, it is also not $10,00 to stay there. My DDs,4 and 7yo, who are really the reason we go to wdw ( yeah right!) LOVED it! There favorite was the smalll, intimate story telling time at the fire pit. That is innovative, and not done at your average Hilton.

Are there things that could have been done better? Sure like those god aweful "standard" view rooms on the way to the bus stop. But on a whole I thought it was "inovative".

IMHO
Sue

 

[Captain Crook]

The animals outback are an added attraction.

Could you possibly understate this to any greater degree?

AKL is exquisite in detail, overwhelming to the senses and nothing but quality. The African Art, the African CM's, the landscaping that so resembles a true African Savannah that native African's are impressed. I don't know what else they could have done to make this place more spectacular & impressive.

I've never swam in a hotel pool before and watched giraffe's walk by...that's pretty inovative.

 

[hopemax]

I have mixed feelings when it comes to the AKL. I think it's great that Disney built another mini-deluxe hotel. I think the animal area is great, I think the lobby is great. But I still have issues with some elements of the lodge.

The design of the hotel wings for instance. They remind me more of the value-hotel buildings areas then a moderate or deluxe hotel. Why have the top decoration alternate? Why not do it all the way across the top? I think the wings feel boxy, too many square edges and flat tops, and it certainly doesn't help that the artist renderings have the thatched roofs continuing throughout the structures, hiding all those harsh edges. I also am not to fond of the balconies. They seem "manufactured" but the other areas all seem to say that "this was constructed from whatever wood we could find."

 

[OnWithTheShow]

While I have not been over to the Animal Kingdom Lodge yet I can see where AV is coming from. Although I loved the Grand Californian and thought it was a wonderful resort it does strongly resemble the style of the Wilderness Lodge (same architect I think for all three AKL, WL, GC). The resort while top notch is "well done" but not "innovative". However I think that well done is still far above what most resorts are doing these days. As an exception to that anyone who wants to see what innovative is should make...nevermind EVERYONE should make a trip to the new Gaylord Palms Resort and Convention Center.

 

[Safari Steve]

I wouldn't compare DAKL to JIYI.... that's completely baffling.

 

[Testtrack321]

I was one of the lukiest people on earth when I got to stay at the AKL. It was magnificant. Will never see anything like it ever again. But was it innovative. Well...
Yes
-Introduced animals into a hotel atmosphere, more than just a bird in the loby.
-Created an African atmosphere using arcatecture and landscape
-Innovative eating and shopping facilites

NO
-Standard layout
-More animals
-Still defies all logic why you see the giraffs on the last day

If it implamented a suspended monorail to travel to "mini-hotel" (like the Polonesian) and each had a food area and other things, that would be innovative. AKL, unfortunatly isn't innovative. But it is EXTREMELY well done.

 

[Another Voice]

Once again – being a good hotel does not necessarily make it innovative. I’ve stayed in plenty of hotels like the Ritz Carlton that are “…exquisite in detail, overwhelming to the senses and nothing but quality”. But none of them are “innovative” – they were just really nice hotels. And I’ve stayed at hotels in Vegas that have tons more decoration and better attention to “themed” detail. But those aren’t innovative either (and most aren’t even good). The Animal Kingdom Lodge is a hotel, one with a gimmick for sure, but it’s still just a hotel. And as they say, there’s nothing wrong with that.

But given the resources Disney has to work with and the “mission” of the Animal Kingdom, I’m sure that they could have come with something a little more interesting for a giraffe than to be just the backdrop for the pool.

Oh and Mr. Scoop – take a look at the pictures of the Mira Costa Hotel at DisneySea and then tell me that doesn’t give you a “better sense of place”. That was based on the plans for the Mediterranean Resort.

 

[Barb]

Another vote for extremely well done. While our room was layed out just like our room at WL, our view was anything but! I was in total awe of our savannah view room. I have never spent so much time just sitting on our balcony watching our view. It was breathtaking. The restaurants were incredible, the lobby and the savannah viewing areas were wonderful, the pool was wonderful. I am always looking for those Disney touches and I found my fair share at every corner. While it may not be innovative, it satified my needs to my full expectations.

 

[Lesley]

Oh, make me feel like a slacker with low standards! But now I know what that nagging feeling in my gut was...

I do really like the AKL...so much that I want to stay there again (despite the rotten bus service, I might add). Well done is definitely the term for it though. And I'll even give it partial credit for being innovative....this particular idea has never been done before, has it? And it is...once again....well done.

Creepy how I've begun to not expect more than this from Disney. But I don't know that I agree about the possibility of doing better at this point in time. I think this is the best we're gonna get out of the company as it stands today. Sad, isn't it? Not that AKL is disappointing...but the fact that I don't even expect better.

I do get your point now AV...Disney used to be the ones who could come up with an awesome concept then do whatever it took to make that concept reality. Now they come up with a standard concept (themed hotel, in this case) and fill in lots of details that they hope add up to something great that fits the budget. What used to hold at its core innovation and artistic vision with secondary thought to profitability, now holds at its core profit motives and cost effectiveness with secondary thought to creativity. And it makes a world of difference.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

… But that doesn’t make Disney®, (Walt’s) Disney

Oh, make me feel like a slacker with low standards!

And

Sad, isn't it? Not that AKL is disappointing...but the fact that I don't even expect better

Yes!! Very sad!! But don’t be too hard on yourself. We’ve all been there (some are still there, eh, Captain? ) It’s that chipping away of the standards I’ve been on about. Very slowly, very methodically, chipping away. Until, before you know it… BAM! It hits you in the head and you ask yourself, “Where’s my DISNEY?!?!?! And you realize that it isn’t here anymore. So, you post a couple posts on the News & Rumors Board. Laugh at how hardheaded the Pirate can be. Pack up the kids and try to ignore everything you don’t like about the place and really concentrate as hard as you can on the magic that’s still there. And finally, you cut out little news clips, stick them in your pocket and wait until an appropriate thread turns up where you can use it, cause you don’t think it’ll go over as a thread of its own.

(he sits back to proof read the previous paragraph. Not quite what he had in mind… but it’ll do. It never quite finishes the way he had in mind when he started. He reaches in his pocket and pulls out the very worn piece of paper, which was ripped from the Chicago Sun-Times over a week ago. He starts to type: )

In 1968 Leo Burnett retired. On his way out, he gave a little speech to his employees about the company that bore his name.

Somewhere along the line, after I’m finally off the premises, you – or your successors – may want to take my name off the premises too. You may to call yourself… Ajax Advertising or something. That will certainly be OK with me – if it’s good for you.

But let me tell you when I might demand that you take my name off the door. That will be the day when you spend more hours trying to make money and less time making advertising – our kind of advertising. When you stoop to convenient expediency and rationalize yourselves into acts of opportunism – for the sake of a fast buck. When your main interest becomes a matter of size just to be big – rather than good, hard, wonderful work.

That, boys and girls, is when I shall insist you take my mane off the door – even if I have to materialize long enough some night to rub it out myself – on every one of your floors.

Hmmm. Maybe a name change is in order. What’d you think? How does it sound? Walt AJAX World.

 

[Captain Crook]

...But you guys must be blind.

Let's go back to scoop's post and move forward.
1. Gaylord Palms...great views from this place, surrounded by highways...Very nice.
2. Voice, the innovation is the zoo surrounding the hotel. Who else has done this? As to the wings being pedestrian, I realize the 'feel' is lacking because of the long walks, but what else could they do? They were surrounding these ordinary wings with animals from Africa (which was/is the whole point). If building a nice replica of an African Lodge in Central Florida isn't innovative, or importing African CM's, artwork & arifacts isn't innovative, or landscaping the area so properly that African CM's can't tell the difference between Disney & home isn't innovative, so be it. But building a zoo around a hotel has got to be innovative.

I'm sure they could have come up with something a little more interesting for a girafe than being the backdrop for the pool.

Is that all they are? Really? Where else will you see this? What "more interesting" would you have them do? Perhaps jump through fire rings? Maybe have them get chased down & eaten daily by lions? Creating the natural (yet peaceful & harmonious) environment was a chore unto itself & quite an innovative touch for Resort.

I do get your point now AV, Disney used to be the ones who could up with an awesome concept...

3. The concept for AK isn't awesome? I guess I can't make you see these things if you don't see them, but the concept for AK is far superior to the 'pretend world' of Mira Costa that Vegas has already perfected...
4. Landbaron, I understand your view of me and that's ok. But you of all people here, do know I'm not blind. You know I see and you know what I see, you just can't figure out how I get from point 'A' to 'E' without going through 'b, c & d' first... But seriously, if you guys don't think the AKL is Disney doing a bit of what Disney has always done (at its best), then there is no conversation to be had and I must again bring up the 'ulterior motive' possibility. If Walt had done AK, there would be nothing, NOTHING that could compare with the accolades that would be being heaped upon this place...

Lastly, Lesley, you had to have hit AKL during a very bad time for the bus transportation to be bad. We've been 4 times and the service is 'superior'. The dedicated busses are always waiting for you, with no crowds. While I don't dispute you had a problem, this isn't the norm & the AKL bus service continues to get high marks from returning guests...

 

[airlarry!]

Whistle! Scoop, you must play fair.

Comments about the innovativeness of the Golf Resort or the Dumbo Spinner or Dark Rides have to be...
taken...
into...
Temporal Context .

Just because the Dumbo Spinner may have been magical and innovative for ITS time, does not mean that the Alladin Spinner is magical and innovative for THIS time at the SAME park.

Just because the Golf Resort at the time may have been a nice story for average Jeaux Bleaux who has never seen a privileged country club, does not mean that Disney should rest on its laurels today and do 'nice stories' of the National Parks or the African Savannah or whatever else Mr. Architect can do with Vaulted Ceilings.

PoopCentury is a redherring, Mon Ami Scoop. It flunks all tests. It is neither beautiful, nor innovative, nor does it take you away. One doesn't 'give' anything if one compares the comments about AKL to the trashing of the PoopCentral Resort.

In fact, for once, this thread doesn't seem necessarily like Eisner bashing. It is just a lament that the Disney people painted yet another beautiful Impressionist painting, but that there are a plethora of those on the property right now. Where is the next level? Isn't that what Disney used to be about? Raising the bar?

That said, AKL is close. I have always been a big fan of Sir Baron's idea that the resorts should be 'worldly' (in my view either in location or time) and should be places that take the average fan away from the humdrum of just another beautiful hotel. AKL seems to do that. But oh, what might have been. I think it is unfair to criticise Mr. Voice's disappointment in What Could Have Been. If critiquing of this nature is done without bitterness, it is good for the Company. Anybody care to guess whether or not the Imagineers (instead of the Hotelleers) would have taken those treehouse villas from the golf course area and integrated them with the Savannah? They ran a monorail through a Polynesian village and a Cement Skyscraper, for Walts sake!

For example. My family and I love the Winnie-the-Pooh attraction at WDW. We are not bitter or upset or screaming at Ei$ner for approving it. But is there a little part of me that wishes we would have gotten the TDS version instead? Of course. Does that make me a negative person?

 

[All Aboard]

There is absolutely nothing innovative about the Disney Inn. Nothing, no matter how hard you try to squeeze some "innovation" out of it, none drips out. It is a plain, vanilla resort overlooking a golf course. Big deal, hardly the first of its kind. There's hundreds of golf resorts in this country that have been around alot longer than 30 years. The only place it takes you is right where it is, a Central Florida golf course. AKL is vastly more innovative than that.

Look, I beat my brains out trying to defend the existence and execution of the All Star concept at WDW. At least in that discussion, I could understand the sentiment of the "other side." Here, I'm just plain baffled.

"Could have done more." Give me a situation anywhere, anytime where that isn't true Everything that was ever built, everything ever conceived could have been more. One side criticizes the other for accepting something because it fulfills their desires - pointing out that they must set too low of a hurdle. To me, that's a far more reasonable measure of success than having something pass the "could have more been done" test.

If anyone can honestly say that either Golf Resort or the wing portions of the Contemporary fit the "Disney Standard" better than AKL, I can infer nothing more than judgement being clouded by contempt for the current "Disney." Sorry, but I just see it no other way.

 

[JeffJewell]

what Disney resorts have met this standard we are holding AKL to and specifically why or how?

...it sure looks like you're trying to create a "Disney standard" argument where none exists.

AV trying to explain the difference between "innovative" and "well-done" is a far cry from attempting to claim AKL fails to meet a necessary "standard" (I'm quite sure I'm the only regular who's ever questioned AKL meeting a "Disney standard," and it's on the bus issue. I really thought we'd hashed this out and moved on, already).

Words mean things. If people are going to communicate with words, everyone must use words to mean what they really mean.

AKL is a nice hotel, and I can accept folks' opinion that it's a _very_ nice hotel, or even the best hotel they've ever seen. But that doesn't change the fact that it's not particularly innovative.

The best counter-point I've yet seen is the Captain's, that putting a zoo around a hotel hasn't been done, and is therefore "innovative" (I haven't addressed that point, pro or con, because I simply don't know whether or not it's true, and I don't care to do the research to find out one way or the other). I have less regard for his other points, about the landscaping and imported art and CM's, because that's what all the locationally themed resorts do. Throwing a dart at a spinning globe to pick the next source country doesn't qualify as "innovative."

Whether or not "putting a zoo around a hotel" is, in and of itself, innovative enough to make the place meet some "standard" is a different conversation entirely.

Jeff

PS: 'Scoop, to prove I'm not trying to ignore your question, I really think only the Poly and the Contemporary show significant innovation. And I can understand how that might be difficult to see today, because of the temporal aspects of the term "innovation."

PPS: Can we let the Golf Resort rest in peace, hmmm? Even it's loudest proponents must accept that it failed... why would you want to use the most obvious mistakes of the past as a measure of "Disney standards" today?

 

[All Aboard]

Jeff, I don't think you are the only one to question AKL=Disney Standard. Voice said it comes off as nothing more than a well decorated Hilton. I'd say that's questioning it.
--
Forgive the tone of my previous post, but this thread has gotten me a bit riled up. Often, the occupants of vehicle three use phrases like "rose colored glasses" when referencing folks up at the front of the motorcade. That no matter what Disney does, they'll defend it. That's your impression, that's understood.

But, please don't get upset when others percieve motivations of car 3 being driven by a disdain for current management. Often I read posts and it seems as thought some folks believe that everything at WDW in the early 1970's was absolutely, positively perfect in every imaginable way. Everything. And then (and insert your own date here) everything went absolutely, positively to crap.

I just get that impression from this thread. A resort that gets rave reviews from almost everyone takes a beating here.

 

[JeffJewell]

Voice said it comes off as nothing more than a well decorated Hilton. I'd say that's questioning it.

...but I never saw where he stated "well decorated Hilton = not 'Disney standard.'" I've interpreted AV's posts in this thread to mean that he is disappointed that a company with Disney's resources and history hasn't pushed the envelope to a significant degree in recent years, and he's pretty adamant about words ("innovative," in this case) meaning what they mean, but little beyond that.

Jeff

 

[JeffJewell]

A resort that gets rave reviews from almost everyone takes a beating here.

...I just don't see where saying that something isn't particularly innovative equals "takes a beating."

If we're going to get into tendencies of Car riders, there's a tendency for some forward Car passengers to expect everyone to have nothing but exemplary things to say about a product simply because it says "Disney" on the side of it, and to accuse "Bashing!" when anything non-gushing is posted. In the thread so far, AKL has suffered the following slings and arrows from declared Car 3 riders and AV (who I don't recall ever declaring an allegiance): "Animal Kingdom Lodge falls into the well done category," that it is "decorated very nicely," and "AKL is a nice hotel, and I can accept folks' opinion that it's a _very_ nice hotel, or even the best hotel they've ever seen." Car 3 is _not_ "beating" the AKL by bringing its "innovation" factor into question.

What about the Car 1 poster who followed up AV's line "I’m not here to bash Animal Kingdom Lodge, just to remind people that even more can be (and should be) accomplished" with "if the Animal Kingdom Lodge cannot meet the Disney standard, then I dare say not much can anymore in the terms of lodging." If there's anyone looking for arguments here, consider the folks who are misrepresenting what was said, using emotionally charged terms from old threads, rather than concentrating on what was actually in the post.

Jeff