ALL BEACHES CLOSED

[Shanti]

Really? They are already posted no swimming, what are you proposing? Drain the lake?

Fencing it off and putting a lifeguard there would likely do the trick.

 

[mrs moon]

maybe they should put a sign up saying that then "Alligator attacks are not common"

 

[Magic Fanatic]

This is a very rare occurrence. I just read this:

"Twenty-three people have been killed by alligators in Florida since 1948, according to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission."

Twenty-three deaths in 68 years! That is not close to being an abnormal number of attacks.

Horrible accident? Yes!

Is it reason to start throwing around law suits, closing beaches and getting rid of all boating related activities? Absolutely not!

To put this perspective the odds of you getting a serious illness from a mosquito bite in Florida are much greater than an alligator attack.

 

[Magic Fanatic]

maybe they should put a sign up saying that then "Alligator attacks are not common"

They are not common. In the last 68 years, 23 deaths. Here are the numbers!

"Twenty-three people have been killed by alligators in Florida since 1948, according to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission."
Horrible accident?

 

[Magic Fanatic]

Fencing it off would be fine.

So you want to build a wall. I could really respond to that but will not.

So what about all the wildlife such as ducks, geese and deer that have to get to the water? There are going to be a lot of dead animals lined up around your fence. Might want to think that one through a bit more!

 

[zebsterama]

You can't place full blame on Disney. This isn't something you expect to happen. Alligator attacks are rare.

I understand/empathize with your 'full blame' perspective - but at the same time, if Disney is so risk averse (as another poster pointed out) why was/is there nothing in place.

If Disney is 60% or 80% to blame - is that acceptable? I'm honestly not trying to be combative (tone is such a hard thing to capture with this medium), I'm just trying to say, I think this is much more than a minor oversight on their part. IMO they certainly didn't fail to set up signs etc. to save money or something else untoward IMO - Disney just screwed up/dropped the ball unfortunately.

Call it dumb luck, call it an act of nature/God - but I'd say Disney is more than just a little accountable - even if attacks are rare.

On another note: We're back at the World in August, and I'd be willing to bet I'll be seeing some kind of warning sign about wild life when we're visiting BWV. That too will say a lot.

In any case - just sad.

 

[rteetz]

I understand/empathize with your 'full blame' perspective - but at the same time, if Disney is so risk averse (as another poster pointed out) why was/is there nothing in place.

If Disney is 60% or 80% to blame - is that acceptable? I'm honestly not trying to be combative (tone is such a hard thing to capture with this medium), I'm just trying to say, I think this is much more than a minor oversight on their part. IMO they certainly didn't fail to set up signs etc. to save money or something else untoward IMO - Disney just screwed up/dropped the ball unfortunately.

Call it dumb luck, call it an act of nature/God - but I'd say Disney is more than just a little accountable - even if attacks are rare.

On another note: We're back at the World in August, and I'd be willing to bet I'll be seeing some kind of warning sign about wild life when we're visiting BWV. That too will say a lot.

In any case - just sad.

I'd say for the most part I agree. Unfortunately sometimes it takes events like this to get a company to make a change. Prior to this Disney hasn't had an issue like this in 30 years and has never had an alligator related death on property.

 

[Shanti]

So you want to build a wall. I could really respond to that but will not.

So what about all the wildlife such as ducks, geese and deer that have to get to the water? There are going to be a lot of dead animals lined up around your fence. Might want to think that one through a bit more!

I said "fence", not "wall". We're not recreating 1960's Berlin- oh, the drama. There are plenty of options for low, attractive fencing in the beach areas that can help keep out alligators.

Deer don't need lakes to be their water source.

Unlike alligators, ducks and geese can fly over a fence. Might want to think your next knee-jerk, hostile response through a bit more next time.

 

[cruisingtwins]

Really? They are already posted no swimming, what are you proposing? Drain the lake?

put a rocky shore so guest could not access the water.

 

[zebsterama]

I'd say for the most part I agree. Unfortunately sometimes it takes events like this to get a company to make a change. Prior to this Disney hasn't had an issue like this in 30 years and has never had an alligator related death on property.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I hope someday, somehow, that family can find some kind of solace.

I can't imagine how gut wrenching this must be for those parents/loved ones, for the life gaurd on site, for staff and management ... it just sucks.

 

[gdrj]

With the tragedy so fresh I was going to avoid commenting on fault, closing beaches, signs etc. but after reading a bit I figured I would jump in.
My views (doesn't mean I'm right and your wrong)
1- Its a horrible tragedy. They unfortunately happen, and adjustments are made.
2- The signs say no swimming. Should it mention gators, probably. No swimming doesn't mean doing the backstroke it means don't get in the water. If a door says Do Not Enter (you don't enter, period).
3- The outrage that there are gators on Disney leaves me shaking my head. Disney cant control nature (I'm not talking about liability). We were on the Monorail to EPCOT and saw what I believe was a bobcat running in the woods. There is water, there is wildlife. It doesn't matter how much you pay for your room the animals don't care. If I go hiking in a State Park, should I assume there is no wildlife.
4. To me the argument to close the beaches permanently is an over-reaction. Should the State of Florida, the entire east coast or Calif or Hawaii close their beaches due to the possibility of shark attacks? They are much more prevalent, and many beaches do not have shark warning signs.
5. I'm sure Disney as well as the family would do things differently in hindsight.

For now the child, his sibling, family, witnesses, and First responders need our prayers. If we want to see rudeness or hatred we can turn to the airwaves and watch the politician's spew hatred.

 

[gdrj]

put a rocky shore so guest could not access the water.

I thought of that as well. There is an area with rocks not far from with the tragedy occurred near the DVC building (I believe it is there for erosion purposes). While this would eliminate the oops I didn't realize I can get my toes wet, there will be people who allow their kids to climb the rocks. Also it will not keep gators off land as you probably know. I would not be surprised there is some redesigning done.

 

[cruisingtwins]

I thought of that as well. There is an area with rocks not far from with the tragedy occurred near the DVC building (I believe it is there for erosion purposes). While this would eliminate the oops I didn't realize I can get my toes wet, there will be people who allow their kids to climb the rocks. Also it will not keep gators off land as you probably know. I would not be surprised there is some redesigning done.

I just don't believe everyone or even the majority of people are rule breakers. I let my kids waddle because I thought it was permitted a CM told me so. There are always lots of children playing in the water and CMs never say anything about it so it never crossed my mind that it wasn't allowed. I think the grand majority of people will not climb the rocks on a rocky shore.

 

[rteetz]

I just don't believe everyone or even the majority of people are rule breakers. I let my kids waddle because I thought it was permitted a CM told me so. There are always lots of children playing in the water and CMs never say anything about it so it never crossed my mind that it wasn't allowed. I think the grand majority of people will not climb the rocks on a rocky shore.

There are not always children playing in the water. Sure it happens but its not like there are dozens of kids in the water every day. That CM that told you it was Ok was unfortunately misinformed.

 

[cruisingtwins]

There are not always children playing in the water. Sure it happens but its not like there are dozens of kids in the water every day. That CM that told you it was Ok was unfortunately misinformed.

Every single time I've been on Disney beach there are kids playing in the shore. And I've been there a lot. Usually at the marshmallow roasting time you find lots of kids playing in the water with CMs present right there. They sell beach toys in the gift shops.

 

[umichigan10]

Every single time I've been on Disney beach there are kids playing in the shore. And I've been there a lot. Usually at the marshmallow roasting time you find lots of kids playing in the water with CMs present right there. They sell beach toys in the gift shops.

In fairness to the whole beach toys thing I've seen thrown around quite a lot.

There are sandy play areas usually near the pools that they're probably intended for.

 

[rteetz]

Every single time I've been on Disney beach there are kids playing in the shore. And I've been there a lot. Usually at the marshmallow roasting time you find lots of kids playing in the water with CMs present right there. They sell beach toys in the gift shops.

I am sorry but I find it hard to believe that there are several kids playing the water with CMs present. I am not saying it didn't happen but I don't know. As for the beach toys I don't see a problem with that.

 

[umichigan10]

I am sorry but I find it hard to believe that there are several kids playing the water with CMs present. I am not saying it didn't happen but I don't know. As for the beach toys I don't see a problem with that.

I mean I wouldn't be too surprised. You have to keep in mind this was never at the forefront of anyone's mind until this awful thing happened.

And that's something I think everyone should keep in mind. Disney made some mistakes, and will probably pay some monetary compensation for it when/if a lawsuit comes about. But to put under a microscope all their past handlings (or lack thereof) of things isn't going to make an ounce of difference for this family. Because it's gonna be drilled into every single cast members head from now until eternity to not let a single guest within reach of that water

 

[cruisingtwins]

I am sorry but I find it hard to believe that there are several kids playing the water with CMs present. I am not saying it didn't happen but I don't know. As for the beach toys I don't see a problem with that.

Yes always by the fire pit there were kids playing int he water. I lived in Orlando for 9 months and occasionally took my kids to different resorts for the marshmallow roasting. There were always kids playing in the water with CMs right there.

 

[ahpm414]

Sorry you feel I was mean to you, but that's life on a message board. The problem is today every time something tragic happens many people (such as yourself) want to assign blame. Disney World has been open since the 70's and never has there been anything like this, yet you feel there should be signs warning about a problem that had never been experienced before. Comparing it to Jaws? That is ridiculous! Disney is the most risk adverse company in the world. This was an accident, and the adult guests (if it is confirmed the kid was splashing in the water) have some responsibility here because, while the specific warning for gators may not be posted, there is no question that there are signs to stay out of the water.

Although the child did not die, previously an alligator has attacked a child off the beach of FW. An 8 year old child suffered lacerations and puncture wounds.

A previous incident of an alligator attack put Disney on notice that this was a possibility. One would have hoped signs would have been posted to warn resort guest, for, even in Florida I believe, a landowner has a duty to protect an invitee onto his premises and correct or warn of dangers that the owner knew or should have known of that were not readily apparent to the guest/invitee. Do signs prevent all accidents? No, but it removes much, if not all, of the liability off the owner, and it allows guest to make an informed choice to go on the beach or not.

Should it be readily apparent to an out of state guest that there are alligators in SSL? I don't know. Personally, being from Missouri, and having grown up around very large lakes (Lake of the Ozarks and Truman Lake), it never occurred to me that there would be alligators in SSL. I am simply not that knowledgeable about alligators, where they live, and how many there are in Florida. We just came back from a week at the Poly, and we have stayed at the CR, GF, YC, and BC the past three years. On all our resort stays I observed many children, including my own who joined in, scooping up water to build sand castles on the beaches associated with each resort. To me that is not swimming, and I found nothing alarming or dangerous about that behavior. I always believed the no swimming sign was due to lack of lifeguards coupled with the motorized sports in the lake(s). I think there is a difference between no swimming and stay out of the water. I never knew there were alligators in SSL or Bay Lake, not arguing I should not have known, just explaining that I did not and how people from different parts of the country or world may also not.

Had I known there were alligators in the lakes, I personally would not have taken my kids to the beach area of any of the resorts. No, I'm not saying the beaches should not stay open, I believe they should, but guest should be advised in order to make their own choice.

I am absolutely heart broken for this family and will be praying for them.