Airlines limit "service animals" to dogs

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See my previous post for why this is an issue, a lot comes down to cost.

Everything has a cost. The cost to keep a dog is more then any licensing would cost. Handicapped or no, a dog is a living creature and should not be owned by someone that can't afford them. If you can't afford a few dollars to license an animal, how are you going to afford to feed them and get them their shots and other vet care? Being handicapped does not mean that you are owed anything.
 
I know this is an older post. Hopefully adding to it won't start another debate. However, I have used a program trained service dog for many years (the one in the photo is not the one I'm talking about.) I think people are unaware how much fraud could be eliminated if business owners would stop refusing to enforce the ADA. Countless businesses refuse to put their foot down for animals who violate ADA standards and are not legal service animals. As we should all know, it is usually fairly obvious when a dog is not behaving properly in public and every person who passes that animal judges that it is most likely being passed off as one fraudulently.

In my opinion, the business owners (who misunderstand the ADA and think everyone is going to sue them) are doing a disservice not only to their customers as a whole, but to those of us with legitimate service dogs whose dogs are distracted by these out of control pets, or even attacked. This can immediately end the career of a $30-50,000 service dog (yes, those are the typical values for most program dogs) when they are traumatized by "fake SDs" in public and they are no longer able to do their job.

Unfortunately, members of the public who do not use service dogs, also don't seem to remember that service dogs are still dogs. They are basically on the intellectual level of a toddler. They have occasional slip-ups. No, this can't be a regular thing, but the ADA allows the handler to correct the misbehavior and continue on with their shopping/etc as long as the behavior is curtailed. It seems to me sometimes that one imperfect move in public you are judged as being a fraud.

We flew with my SD back to WDW last month for a two week trip and had no problems. He did wonderfully, and he made it possible for me to go. I was impressed by the improved standards set forth by the ACAA and how many FEWER dogs I saw in the airport, especially wearing ESA or SD vests. If you lie on that federal document attesting to the training of your service dog, and then your caught lying or having an unsuitable animal flying with you, not only do you NOT get to fly, there are serious repercussions for perjury. This is a whole new level of seriousness that was never even touched before by the previous "rules".

Regarding the ADA and every day business, if these businesses asked the two legal questions (Is that a service dog used for a legal disability? (and) What task(s) is the dog trained to do to mitigate your disability?) for one, this would eliminate a ton of fraudsters. Most fakers haven't done their homework to know this can be asked nor what to say in response. Many will say "emotional support" which doesn't qualify and they should be refused. Similarly, even if the dog is a legal SD, but is not house trained or behaves in a chaotic/ill mannered way in your place of business, you have every right to have the animal be removed, as long as you allow the person to come back in without it.

If places really did this, there would be no need to quibble over licensing, certification, etc. But for the most part, businesses don't address the problem and the public blames the ADA.

This is a difficult topic for me because, as a person disabled by serious mental illness, a lot of the public wants to discount my experience anyway, or laugh at me for having what they think is "stress" -- not understanding the difference between an SMI and mild every day stressors in your life. I've been ridiculed for using a service dog by individuals who don't "see" my disabilities or all the years I've spent hospitalized, unable to do anything for myself, unable to take care of my basic needs or manage every day tasks, let alone know who or where I am, what I'm doing, what year it is, what's a hallucination or a delusion versus a real time event, etc.

This has even CAUSED problem with my long time service dog, because as much as I cannot function without him, many of the first several years I had him up until now, I was frequently hospitalized against my will for months at a time, with no one to maintain his training or bond with me. This meant, that every time I was released from the hospital, more of his training had been lost and soon he was having more issues in public because of all my time in the hospital, as well as frequently not being able to leave my house. I got him in 2016 and only last year was he retrained for 8 months because I actually REQUIRE his assistance and am horrified as well, at the thought, that somebody else would again think I was a fraudulent service dog handler. I WANT nothing more than his perfect assistance and behavior -- it is mortifying to me if he's not up to par. But this has only been caused by the severity of my disability, not because I'm not disabled or have done my due diligence to conform to the law.

At this point, he has only one task (which is legal) but really doesn't completely provide all the assistance I need because he's older and his ability to learn new tasks is less and he's starting to have hip issues. And sometimes he still makes mistakes in public because of our long history together. I adore my service dog, but he is not perfect and I'm counting down the days until I can get another one fully trained with more tasks and without the baggage of my disability history. I am back to being able to live with my husband again (I was sequestered from my family for 15 years while I received specialized help from a specific doctor and program) and am not going away for long hospitalizations as often. I don't anticipate the same issues of not being able to maintain his training because of being away. But as part of my illness I am terrified every minute of the day, and he makes it possible to be in public and feel safe enough, and his one task still is a mitigating factor to my disabilities, even though I wish he had more.

I know this is extremely long, and I'm grateful if you've read all of this. It just seems like a lot of the problems faced by people with service dogs, and even the public's interactions with service dogs inspire a lot of vitriol from people who are less informed about what goes on, and what could actually be done within the current laws. I wish I could pay for there to be ongoing PSA's about service dogs, the laws about them, and all the issues surrounding them -- including consequences for faking. Just tonight, listening to the news, I AGAIN heard a lawyer defending service dog users, and he completely misinformed the public about the laws, saying they have to be "certified" have "papers" and be "federally licensed". If even people like this can't get it right, how's the public ever supposed to understand?

Okay, I'm sorry to bore you with my troubles and perspectives (by the way, despite my name, my disabilities are far more than only my CPTSD). But I hope it gives you a glimpse into at least one person's point of view, who uses a legit service dog and tries like heck to make sure every "I" is dotted and every "t" is crossed. I wish you could understand how humiliating it can be to be following all the rules and still be judged so harshly every time you manage to get out of the house or if your service dog occasionally misbehaves.

If I've clarified anything for anyone here, I hope it's been in a positive way. My illnesses revolve around intense shame among many other things, and this topic does not curtail the supply of that emotion under any circumstance. I'm really not a jerk so I hope I haven't been offensive. Just really affected by this topic. Thank you so much for listening. I welcome comments though I hope they will be kind.
 
I know this is an older post. Hopefully adding to it won't start another debate. However, I have used a program trained service dog for many years (the one in the photo is not the one I'm talking about.) I think people are unaware how much fraud could be eliminated if business owners would stop refusing to enforce the ADA. Countless businesses refuse to put their foot down for animals who violate ADA standards and are not legal service animals. As we should all know, it is usually fairly obvious when a dog is not behaving properly in public and every person who passes that animal judges that it is most likely being passed off as one fraudulently.

In my opinion, the business owners (who misunderstand the ADA and think everyone is going to sue them) are doing a disservice not only to their customers as a whole, but to those of us with legitimate service dogs whose dogs are distracted by these out of control pets, or even attacked. This can immediately end the career of a $30-50,000 service dog (yes, those are the typical values for most program dogs) when they are traumatized by "fake SDs" in public and they are no longer able to do their job.

Unfortunately, members of the public who do not use service dogs, also don't seem to remember that service dogs are still dogs. They are basically on the intellectual level of a toddler. They have occasional slip-ups. No, this can't be a regular thing, but the ADA allows the handler to correct the misbehavior and continue on with their shopping/etc as long as the behavior is curtailed. It seems to me sometimes that one imperfect move in public you are judged as being a fraud.

We flew with my SD back to WDW last month for a two week trip and had no problems. He did wonderfully, and he made it possible for me to go. I was impressed by the improved standards set forth by the ACAA and how many FEWER dogs I saw in the airport, especially wearing ESA or SD vests. If you lie on that federal document attesting to the training of your service dog, and then your caught lying or having an unsuitable animal flying with you, not only do you NOT get to fly, there are serious repercussions for perjury. This is a whole new level of seriousness that was never even touched before by the previous "rules".

Regarding the ADA and every day business, if these businesses asked the two legal questions (Is that a service dog used for a legal disability? (and) What task(s) is the dog trained to do to mitigate your disability?) for one, this would eliminate a ton of fraudsters. Most fakers haven't done their homework to know this can be asked nor what to say in response. Many will say "emotional support" which doesn't qualify and they should be refused. Similarly, even if the dog is a legal SD, but is not house trained or behaves in a chaotic/ill mannered way in your place of business, you have every right to have the animal be removed, as long as you allow the person to come back in without it.

If places really did this, there would be no need to quibble over licensing, certification, etc. But for the most part, businesses don't address the problem and the public blames the ADA.

This is a difficult topic for me because, as a person disabled by serious mental illness, a lot of the public wants to discount my experience anyway, or laugh at me for having what they think is "stress" -- not understanding the difference between an SMI and mild every day stressors in your life. I've been ridiculed for using a service dog by individuals who don't "see" my disabilities or all the years I've spent hospitalized, unable to do anything for myself, unable to take care of my basic needs or manage every day tasks, let alone know who or where I am, what I'm doing, what year it is, what's a hallucination or a delusion versus a real time event, etc.

This has even CAUSED problem with my long time service dog, because as much as I cannot function without him, many of the first several years I had him up until now, I was frequently hospitalized against my will for months at a time, with no one to maintain his training or bond with me. This meant, that every time I was released from the hospital, more of his training had been lost and soon he was having more issues in public because of all my time in the hospital, as well as frequently not being able to leave my house. I got him in 2016 and only last year was he retrained for 8 months because I actually REQUIRE his assistance and am horrified as well, at the thought, that somebody else would again think I was a fraudulent service dog handler. I WANT nothing more than his perfect assistance and behavior -- it is mortifying to me if he's not up to par. But this has only been caused by the severity of my disability, not because I'm not disabled or have done my due diligence to conform to the law.

At this point, he has only one task (which is legal) but really doesn't completely provide all the assistance I need because he's older and his ability to learn new tasks is less and he's starting to have hip issues. And sometimes he still makes mistakes in public because of our long history together. I adore my service dog, but he is not perfect and I'm counting down the days until I can get another one fully trained with more tasks and without the baggage of my disability history. I am back to being able to live with my husband again (I was sequestered from my family for 15 years while I received specialized help from a specific doctor and program) and am not going away for long hospitalizations as often. I don't anticipate the same issues of not being able to maintain his training because of being away. But as part of my illness I am terrified every minute of the day, and he makes it possible to be in public and feel safe enough, and his one task still is a mitigating factor to my disabilities, even though I wish he had more.

I know this is extremely long, and I'm grateful if you've read all of this. It just seems like a lot of the problems faced by people with service dogs, and even the public's interactions with service dogs inspire a lot of vitriol from people who are less informed about what goes on, and what could actually be done within the current laws. I wish I could pay for there to be ongoing PSA's about service dogs, the laws about them, and all the issues surrounding them -- including consequences for faking. Just tonight, listening to the news, I AGAIN heard a lawyer defending service dog users, and he completely misinformed the public about the laws, saying they have to be "certified" have "papers" and be "federally licensed". If even people like this can't get it right, how's the public ever supposed to understand?

Okay, I'm sorry to bore you with my troubles and perspectives (by the way, despite my name, my disabilities are far more than only my CPTSD). But I hope it gives you a glimpse into at least one person's point of view, who uses a legit service dog and tries like heck to make sure every "I" is dotted and every "t" is crossed. I wish you could understand how humiliating it can be to be following all the rules and still be judged so harshly every time you manage to get out of the house or if your service dog occasionally misbehaves.

If I've clarified anything for anyone here, I hope it's been in a positive way. My illnesses revolve around intense shame among many other things, and this topic does not curtail the supply of that emotion under any circumstance. I'm really not a jerk so I hope I haven't been offensive. Just really affected by this topic. Thank you so much for listening. I welcome comments though I hope they will be kind.
I don't think you fully appreciate the position that businesses are in, especially in this day and age of social media. Yes, they are legally allowed to ask those 2 questions, but people lie and then what are going to do, call them liars? No business wants to have someone go on social media claiming that they do not let in service dogs. That can ruin a small business. This is NOT on any business, this is a government issue. There needs to be a registration process and legal paperwork that people can show, just like that lawyer in your story thinks there already is. That is the only way to eliminate fraud, or at least make it harder. We, as a society, have gotten to the point where the honor system no longer works in this case, sadly.
 
I don't think you fully appreciate the position that businesses are in, especially in this day and age of social media. Yes, they are legally allowed to ask those 2 questions, but people lie and then what are going to do, call them liars? No business wants to have someone go on social media claiming that they do not let in service dogs. That can ruin a small business. This is NOT on any business, this is a government issue. There needs to be a registration process and legal paperwork that people can show, just like that lawyer in your story thinks there already is. That is the only way to eliminate fraud, or at least make it harder. We, as a society, have gotten to the point where the honor system no longer works in this case, sadly.
There isn't a registration process? If not, then I agree there should be.

As an aside, I breed rats. A lot of people get them as "emotional support animals" and they have truly helped them. But, yes, the airlines do not recognize "emotional support" as a valid category for a service animal, nor do they recognize rats as a valid service animal. Many people would wish otherwise, as having their rat with them genuinely makes it easier for them to cope with stressful situations. I'd love to see that changed, but I doubt it will happen.
 
There isn't a registration process? If not, then I agree there should be.

As an aside, I breed rats. A lot of people get them as "emotional support animals" and they have truly helped them. But, yes, the airlines do not recognize "emotional support" as a valid category for a service animal, nor do they recognize rats as a valid service animal. Many people would wish otherwise, as having their rat with them genuinely makes it easier for them to cope with stressful situations. I'd love to see that changed, but I doubt it will happen.
There is no registration of documentation process for service animals in the US. Even the vests are not "official" with the government. Anyone saying that they have "papers" just got scammed or just printed them up themselves. And we are talking about true service animals here, not emotional support animals. The ES ones do not have the same legal rights as true service animals. ES animals are not legally allowed in businesses like true service animals, which are dogs or small horses only. The issue with bringing ES animals everywhere is that they don't have the training that true service animals have. Service animals are providing a crucial service to people and are trained for all situations so they don't put their human at risk. ES animals are pets. There is a huge difference.
 
Service animals are providing a crucial service to people and are trained for all situations so they don't put their human at risk. ES animals are pets. There is a huge difference.
Yes, I agree that rats would need to be trained so they wouldn't put their owner or others at risk. That seems like a reasonable precaution prior to allowing their cages on airplanes.
 
BethCPTSD, Are you saying that if a dog misbehaves (poops on the floor, barks at someone, etc.) as I took to read in the 5th paragraph, the business owner can have him removed, even if he's a trained service dog? If so, it would seem that that's something that business owners might feel better about if they thought they could do it and not get sued. Interesting information.
 


Hi Simba's Mom,
I think due to the ADA saying that you can refuse the service dog if it is not "housetrained" that it would be legal to require them to leave the premises. You cannot ban them from future visits however, and some common sense would be helpful, since any dog can get sick on rare occasion and have an accident. However, if a dog is really "not housetrained" they probably have many other problems too, that would indicate they are not trained or trained enough to be a legal service dog. Any obvious or consistent misbehavior can also mean you can remove any service dog (legal or "fake") from your place of business.

I do want to add one thing in terms of registries or having to "show papers" as a service dog handler (currently not required by ADA.) The reason given for this is often a comparison to WWII Germany when certain people were asked to "show papers" to go anywhere in public. To ask only the disabled who use service dogs to show documentation to go anywhere in public, which is not required by the rest of society, would place undue burden on the disabled and is considered inhumane. Since service dogs are seen as medical equipment, just like a wheelchair or any other medical device, and people with those medical devices can come and go as they please without showing documentation, it is meant to be a fair playing field.
 
One of the moms from my kids' sports team has a service dog that I have complete doubts about. She drags this poor dog everywhere and it kills me. We were at a crowded event last summer, people screaming and cheering and it was 90 degrees (south Florida) and humid out. The poor dog looked disheveled and unwell. She had him at another crowded school event and he was barking at us to pet him. She has also told us that when she takes his vest off, that he knows he is no longer working and that's why he barks and rolls around. I am no expert but I don't think actual service dogs behave this way. Nice lady, adore her sweet daughter but I have to grit my teeth around her and sometimes just walk away.
“Nice” people don’t drag their dogs around. Thank God I’m not around that woman. She doesn’t sound like a responsible pet owner to me.
 
Simba's mom: one more thing! I somehow missed that you also asked if a service dog can be removed if it barks. In general, misbehaving dogs, service or not, can be removed. However, context has to be taken into account. Some dogs are trained to bark once, to alert a member of the public to their handler's emergency (eg having a seizure.) Also, things like an occasional bark can happen, and though it shouldn't, the handler (according to the ADA) has to be given a chance to correct the misbehavior. However, if the dog continues barking and barking and does not mind their handler, they can be removed. I think once the basics are understood, some of these things are common sense. What's not okay is to see a dog make ONE mistake (or you perceive it to be making a mistake) and you kick them out no questions asked. There is a difference in a dog running a muck, and a one off situation. Hopefully that makes sense!
 
I don't think you fully appreciate the position that businesses are in, especially in this day and age of social media. Yes, they are legally allowed to ask those 2 questions, but people lie and then what are going to do, call them liars? No business wants to have someone go on social media claiming that they do not let in service dogs. That can ruin a small business. This is NOT on any business, this is a government issue. There needs to be a registration process and legal paperwork that people can show, just like that lawyer in your story thinks there already is. That is the only way to eliminate fraud, or at least make it harder. We, as a society, have gotten to the point where the honor system no longer works in this case, sadly.

Hi Lilsia,
You made this comment and I wanted to respond. Yes, a business has a right and an obligation to act in their own best interests and in the best interests of their customers. If a person comes in with an untrained dog, cannot answer the two questions meant to determine if their dog is a service dog, or the dog is misbehaving in an uncontrolled and uncorrected way, they should be asking the person to leave and if the person refuses, they should call the police. This is exactly the same thing they are expected to do if ANYONE comes into their business and creates chaos, is violent or loud and refuses to leave when requested. In no way is it unreasonable to do this if someone is lying about an out of control dog.

And yes, that person may create a scene, just like a thief might or a drunk person might. If a business wants to compete and stay operating in society, they must conform to the laws and what they require. I do not understand why this seems to be so outrageous to you or why you don't support them doing the right thing.

If the police are called and witness the out of control situation they will tell the dog owner they have to leave and they will support the business. It is also usually protocol to remind the dog owner that their only recourse is to file a complaint with the DOJ or take it to court. If this person does not have a disability or has a "fake" service dog, those things will result in nothing at all.

Regarding social media: There are a ton of videos of dog owners saying their animals are service animals on YouTube, and supposedly showing every kind of "discrimination" you can imagine. It is usually apparent whether the person and their animal is the problem or not. I think you greatly over estimate the issues that actually result from these occasional accounts. Most of them are done by kids, and most end up being passed to OTHER kids and not having any real world consequences. If these individuals are really service dog handlers, they lose a great deal of credibility by doing this, and often make the problem worse by their reaction. Unfortunately, some people grow up this way and the answer is not to fold every time they raise a ruckus, but handle it like an adult, and adhere to the law. A great many legitimate service dog handlers who watch SD YouTube videos, warn others to avoid the problematic channels, because it is often obvious that some of these are simply looking for confrontations whenever they go out. Whether it is people like this, or fraudulent handlers that don't know the laws, the bark is louder than the bite.

Take care.
 
Hi Lilsia,
You made this comment and I wanted to respond. Yes, a business has a right and an obligation to act in their own best interests and in the best interests of their customers. If a person comes in with an untrained dog, cannot answer the two questions meant to determine if their dog is a service dog, or the dog is misbehaving in an uncontrolled and uncorrected way, they should be asking the person to leave and if the person refuses, they should call the police. This is exactly the same thing they are expected to do if ANYONE comes into their business and creates chaos, is violent or loud and refuses to leave when requested. In no way is it unreasonable to do this if someone is lying about an out of control dog.

And yes, that person may create a scene, just like a thief might or a drunk person might. If a business wants to compete and stay operating in society, they must conform to the laws and what they require. I do not understand why this seems to be so outrageous to you or why you don't support them doing the right thing.

If the police are called and witness the out of control situation they will tell the dog owner they have to leave and they will support the business. It is also usually protocol to remind the dog owner that their only recourse is to file a complaint with the DOJ or take it to court. If this person does not have a disability or has a "fake" service dog, those things will result in nothing at all.

Regarding social media: There are a ton of videos of dog owners saying their animals are service animals on YouTube, and supposedly showing every kind of "discrimination" you can imagine. It is usually apparent whether the person and their animal is the problem or not. I think you greatly over estimate the issues that actually result from these occasional accounts. Most of them are done by kids, and most end up being passed to OTHER kids and not having any real world consequences. If these individuals are really service dog handlers, they lose a great deal of credibility by doing this, and often make the problem worse by their reaction. Unfortunately, some people grow up this way and the answer is not to fold every time they raise a ruckus, but handle it like an adult, and adhere to the law. A great many legitimate service dog handlers who watch SD YouTube videos, warn others to avoid the problematic channels, because it is often obvious that some of these are simply looking for confrontations whenever they go out. Whether it is people like this, or fraudulent handlers that don't know the laws, the bark is louder than the bite.

Take care.

But we were not talking about misbehaving dogs, you are bringing that into the conversation now. As to misbehaving dogs, yes of course the business is within their rights to ask them to leave. We were talking about just allowing these dogs in the business in the first place. I have worked in food for over 30 years and this has come up several times. Every single business that I have worked at has told their employees to not even ask if it is a service dog because it is not worth the hassle and aggravation. People who don't have a legitimate service dog ALWAYS cause a scene and start yelling about how we are kicking out a service dog, because they know how to play the system.
If a dog every becomes an issue, the best thing is to call the police. No employee is going to get involved in that. Usually by the time they get there, the person is long gone, because they do this crap all the time. You have your opinions, and that is fine, but it is clear that you have never been in this situation. I am not saying this to be rude, just to point out what it is really like, but try working with the public for a few years and then come back and tell us about the reality of things.
 
I'm sorry, but I don't appreciate being dismissed from the conversation. You obviously have very strong feelings about your experience in food service. I'm sorry if it hasn't been pleasant or it has turned you off from service dog issues.

A dog in a business is either.a trained service dog or it is not. A business has many rights and can turn away anyone whose dog is not acting like a service dog defined by the ADA. If it is a service dog and the team is discriminated against they have a right to object in an appropriate way.

And of course.I've been in this situation before. Every SD handler has faced unlawful discrimination and I am no different. I did not scream, yell or cause a scene and there are many like me.

We obviously have different experiences.
 
And of course.I've been in this situation before. Every SD handler has faced unlawful discrimination and I am no different. I did not scream, yell or cause a scene and there are many like me.
I think the point the PP is trying to make is that the reality of working with the general public is a lot different than the simplicity of how the law reads. Yes legitimate service dog owners (like you) would answer the questions allowed and no problem. But those trying to pass off "fake" service dogs DO in fact make a big fuss, draw attention, yell and kick up a big scene; however by the time police arrive, the person (and dog) have left in a huff so the police can't do anything. Damage is already done to the reputation of the business just because a faker screamed "discrimination" -- and then that ends up posted online, on the evening news, in the newspaper, etc. Businesses are caught in a no-win situation, if they question every dog that enters the establishment it causes more hassle and bad press than it's worth so many don't even try.
 
Hi Lanejudy,
thank you for commenting. I always really appreciate your thoughts.

However, I still must disagree. Besides my own experiences for the past 10-11 years of working with service dogs, I read voraciously about these matters and have watched hundred of videos of people doing just the thing you both are describing: documenting what they say is service dog discrimination.

There is a wide variety of videos by service dog handlers. Many are very responsible and attempt to educate businesses, there are many "fake service dog" videos especially on TikTok (usually posted by annoyed service dog handlers, frustrated with the abuse) and many people who are having confrontations with employees of companies and are sometimes yelling or "making a scene" as we have been talking about (plus posting it on social media.)

What I've observed over many years is that the majority of handlers filming "discrimination" whether they are making a scene or not, are legitimately being discriminated against. I don't agree with how many of these people (usually teenagers are the ones that get upset and post online) handle the situation. They often make it worse by raising their voice, for example. However, they are typically right about the legal aspect of the situation. Also in my own experience, I can say that the majority of businesses including restaurants (esp small businesses) do not do their due diligence to read the ADA. The ADA service dog laws are simple to read, not hard to understand and not especially lengthy.

I see business owners making mistakes such as saying "no dogs allowed, service or not" or "your dog has to be on a leash" (many service dogs do not have to be leashed according to the ADA), or "you can come in, but you have to sit on the patio" or "away from other patrons/in the dog section" (both of which violate the ADA). Many say "you have to show us documentation/registration/certification" (as we all know, this is against the ADA). Others say, "health codes say no dogs allowed." Yet another is "you can't do that in here" (usually meaning doing certain tasks for your disability, or training the dog in public, which is allowed by state law in almost every state by the handler.) These are merely a few examples of things I hear repeatedly said by business owners that violate the ADA. There are many, many more. This happens to service dog handlers (including guide dog users) on an incredibly frequent basis. Yes, some people make a fuss, but they are allowed to object to discrimination. Isn't protest what this country was built on?

I don't mean to belabor the point. But it is very real issue and often boils down to the businesses not reading the law and acting accordingly. Did you know that when a service dog handler files a legit complaint with the DOJ the majority are dismissed because there is too much discrimination to handle it all? It's a real problem.

As I posted in an earlier post, the alternative of forcing service dog handlers to prove their right to be in public every time they leave the house has been considered inhumane and unjust. It treats these disabled people as second hand citizens that cannot freely come and go as they please. A service dog is a disability accommodation in the same way any other mobility device is. It places undue burden and is unequal treatment to require only certain people to provide proof to go into public. Some may not agree, but this is the stance taken by the government and I agree with it. You may not. We can agree to disagree.
 
You have misunderstood my post, as well as my opinion of service dogs and their owners. I was commenting about this:

If a business wants to compete and stay operating in society, they must conform to the laws and what they require.

I agree businesses must abide by the law, and the ADA law requires service animals (dogs or miniature horses) be allowed into a business as a piece of medical equipment. However, business are not required to ask the 2 allowed questions. My comment was specific to why more businesses don't ask the 2 questions they are legally allowed to ask. Businesses don't ask the questions because they don't want to deal with the backlash and fuss that can occur multiple times a day when fakers are asked those questions. I'm not talking about legitimate service dog owners of any age, most of whom will answer politely and calmly with an accurate answer (at least in my experience). I am talking about the fakers, many of whom absolutely do post online about how "Business X didn't allow my service dog!" and the business is raked over the coals unnecessarily because the animal in question was at best an untrained emotional support animal or at worst a pet. It's made worse when the news picks it up and reports on it, further negatively impacting the reputation of the business who DID follow the law as written and asked the questions allowed. This has happened in my own area multiple times. To avoid this, many businesses simply turn a blind eye to fake service dogs; they allow the animal to enter and do not ask the questions they are allowed to ask.
 
I'm sorry, but I don't appreciate being dismissed from the conversation. You obviously have very strong feelings about your experience in food service. I'm sorry if it hasn't been pleasant or it has turned you off from service dog issues.

A dog in a business is either.a trained service dog or it is not. A business has many rights and can turn away anyone whose dog is not acting like a service dog defined by the ADA. If it is a service dog and the team is discriminated against they have a right to object in an appropriate way.

And of course.I've been in this situation before. Every SD handler has faced unlawful discrimination and I am no different. I did not scream, yell or cause a scene and there are many like me.

We obviously have different experiences.
I don't know how you got to the idea that I am "turned off from service dog issues". I never said or implied that. I am saying what is reality for businesses when it comes to this situation.
YOU kept saying that businesses should question everyone that comes in with a dog because they are "legally able to", in order to keep the fakers out. And I am telling you that businesses are not going to go through that hassle because people are jerks and make a scene.
If there is a situation where the dog does become an issue, then they call the police. But the last thing that any employee is going to do is get involved with you and your animal because there is no way to prove one way or the other if the dog is actually a service dog.
Your real problem is with the jerks that pretend that their pet is a service dog, not businesses.
 
You have misunderstood my post, as well as my opinion of service dogs and their owners. I was commenting about this:



I agree businesses must abide by the law, and the ADA law requires service animals (dogs or miniature horses) be allowed into a business as a piece of medical equipment. However, business are not required to ask the 2 allowed questions. My comment was specific to why more businesses don't ask the 2 questions they are legally allowed to ask. Businesses don't ask the questions because they don't want to deal with the backlash and fuss that can occur multiple times a day when fakers are asked those questions. I'm not talking about legitimate service dog owners of any age, most of whom will answer politely and calmly with an accurate answer (at least in my experience). I am talking about the fakers, many of whom absolutely do post online about how "Business X didn't allow my service dog!" and the business is raked over the coals unnecessarily because the animal in question was at best an untrained emotional support animal or at worst a pet. It's made worse when the news picks it up and reports on it, further negatively impacting the reputation of the business who DID follow the law as written and asked the questions allowed. This has happened in my own area multiple times. To avoid this, many businesses simply turn a blind eye to fake service dogs; they allow the animal to enter and do not ask the questions they are allowed to ask.
This is exactly what I was saying. Too many people go in intentionally to make a fuss and record a business to get views. This does affect businesses. That is why most places are not going to say a thing to these people unless the animal is obviously being aggressive or destructive.
 
I think the whole point is that if most businesses routinely asked the questions that they are allowed to ask by law, that it would, over time, get rid of some of the fakers. And lesson the impact of any kind of”gotcha” videos because there would be so many of them. It’s kind of like a business’ policy of carding everyone who looks like they are under 40. Do they overcard? Yes. But since they do it so much, no one cares. Except the cheaters.
 
I think the whole point is that if most businesses routinely asked the questions that they are allowed to ask by law, that it would, over time, get rid of some of the fakers. And lesson the impact of any kind of”gotcha” videos because there would be so many of them. It’s kind of like a business’ policy of carding everyone who looks like they are under 40. Do they overcard? Yes. But since they do it so much, no one cares. Except the cheaters.
The reality is that people lie. It doesn't matter if the business asks, people will lie at best, make a huge scene at worst. Asking these 2 questions does NOTHING because as soon as a business says that they don't think that the dog is a service dog, the owner goes crazy, they don't just leave peacefully and "learn their lesson".
 
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