ADHD kid at daycare.... Uncontrable!

[funkychunkymonkey]

Im at a loss with one of the kids I work with. J is a great kid, when he wants to be. Friday for example he decided he didnt need to listen to anyone (which is a typical day). In the course of two hours he had tried to hurt another child by shoving a toy at him and kicked a freind in the face (splitting his lip). He aslo kicked another child later, cause he felt like it. When put in time out he runs away. There is no concuess that seems to work except sending him the the kitchen with our cook ( a tough old man, former cop, who makes him sit with his nose in the corner). Ive tried taking things away, not letting him do things he likes (such as playing with the pool table) or making him play table games (he throws parts). Ive tried giving him more active activities, but he gets in trouble with that too (ex. sent him to the room right next to ours to sweep (half wall between) and he proceded to smash the broom into the table. Hes been diagonosed with ADHD and is on medicine. Mom is at a loss too, dad can controll him but not in a way we can use at daycare. Any ideas? Im sick of feeling like I wanna cry at the end of the day!

 

[Schmeck]

Im at a loss with one of the kids I work with. J is a great kid, when he wants to be. Friday for example he decided he didnt need to listen to anyone (which is a typical day). In the course of two hours he had tried to hurt another child by shoving a toy at him and kicked a freind in the face (splitting his lip). He aslo kicked another child later, cause he felt like it. When put in time out he runs away. There is no concuess that seems to work except sending him the the kitchen with our cook ( a tough old man, former cop, who makes him sit with his nose in the corner). Ive tried taking things away, not letting him do things he likes (such as playing with the pool table) or making him play table games (he throws parts). Ive tried giving him more active activities, but he gets in trouble with that too (ex. sent him to the room right next to ours to sweep (half wall between) and he proceded to smash the broom into the table. Hes been diagonosed with ADHD and is on medicine. Mom is at a loss too, dad can controll him but not in a way we can use at daycare. Any ideas? Im sick of feeling like I wanna cry at the end of the day!

If he assaults other children, he needs to be removed from the program. Safety is always the first concern, and you can't keep the other kids safe. Most of the issues are going to have to be dealt with by the parents, as they are beyond what can/should be done in a daycare situation. He needs a behavioral program, IMO, and the parents need to get some training as well.

 

[kuhltiffany]

Obviously the meds aren't working, sounds like he needs to go back to the doctor. I have a child with ADHD, on the right dose he should have more impulse control than that... It's hard to keep the dosage right, since growth and weight changes can happen so quickly!

 

[mguilford1]

My granddaughter has ADHD also. She is on medicaton but we had to try three different ones before finding the right one and believe me I am not one to push medication but she needs it to control impulses and slow down. She also has sensory issues and goes to an occupational therapist....she sees the person once a week for an hour it makes a huge difference and just watching her sessions makes you realize that her pushing, knocking into things, touching people too hard is not her fault and they are working on it, so that her senses work more like everyone else's. She has always been one that doesn't like tags, socks....and yes I have people that teach me how to "deal" with her and help her. She is a bright first grader who has an above average IQ. Please don't assume he does these things on purpose... most children want to make people happy and have friends! There should be a child find (federal special education program) in your area maybe he can be referred and get the help he needs before he starts regular school.

 

[WheeledTraveler]

How old is he? If he's under 3 (which I know is unlikely), it sounds like he might qualify for early intervention. If he's more preschool age, there are programs that are specifically behavioral preschools. If he's up to actual school age, then the parents really need to fight to make sure they're getting the accommodations/teaching he needs. School systems often don't want to give everything needed, but there are resources out there to help parents. Regardless, it really sounds like he needs more help from professionals used to working with kids with behavioral problems (OT, psych, teachers, etc.) than he's currently getting. There really should be more happening than just meds.

Really the best thing you can do for this kid right now really is to tell his parents that they need to find intervention programs rather than your daycare. It's possible that once things are better managed he could come back, but I think you're really risking huge problems for yourself if you continue to allow him in your daycare as is. If a typical day truly involves multiple other kids getting injured, I'm surprised that you haven't already had issues raised from other parents, to be completely honest. Telling the parents that they need to find an alternate way to get the daycare might be the thing they need to really step up and be more aggressive about addressing what's going on.

Based on your description, I'd also question if ADHD is the only thing going on. I could definitely see sensory or other developmental issues as well based on what you're describing. It might be worth suggesting to the parents that they try to get an appointment with a developmental pediatrician. I know they can be hard to find and have long wait lists, but some of the things you've said have raised some warning flags for me (both in terms of his behavior and in what it may take to control him). At least if the family looks into it now, they can get on a wait list and figure out how to get to the closest developmental pediatrician/clinic while looking at interventions that he can access before then. Even if it is "only" ADHD, a developmental pediatrician will probably be most able to manage things like meds and make recommendations about what therapies will do the most to improve the situation. I don't know who diagnosed the kid as having ADHD, but most people I know did not see a developmental pediatrician for either their or their kids' diagnosis. Often it seems to be general pediatrician who does the initial diagnosis and then either an educational psych or neurologist to confirm, none of whom have the level of training as a developmental pediatrician. Certainly if it was the general pediatrician then they need to push further because most general pediatricians really aren't equipped to do more than try meds.

 

[funkychunkymonkey]

My granddaughter has ADHD also. She is on medicaton but we had to try three different ones before finding the right one and believe me I am not one to push medication but she needs it to control impulses and slow down. She also has sensory issues and goes to an occupational therapist....she sees the person once a week for an hour it makes a huge difference and just watching her sessions makes you realize that her pushing, knocking into things, touching people too hard is not her fault and they are working on it, so that her senses work more like everyone else's. She has always been one that doesn't like tags, socks....and yes I have people that teach me how to "deal" with her and help her. She is a bright first grader who has an above average IQ. Please don't assume he does these things on purpose... most children want to make people happy and have friends! There should be a child find (federal special education program) in your area maybe he can be referred and get the help he needs before he starts regular school.

I know its not his faut he is the way he is, but Im at a loss. Hes in school but gets meds right before so hes good there, i hear. Im his favorite teacher, he tells me this all the time and is always hugging me. ive talked to our director and she said she would "see what she could do". I dont want him kicked out I just need some advice on how to handle this. Hes very very very much an active child, sitting is a problem unless hes really involved in an activity. Hes going to be in my classroom everyday starting in december and Im not sure what the heck to do.

Mg- what did they tel you how to deal with it? I mean is there any tips or ideas you can give me? I know what works for you may not work for me but Im desprate.

 

[mguilford1]

He really needs to be tested so that he can get outside help. He can still go to your daycare.....Schools Districts are required to locate, identify and evaluate all children with disabilities from birth through age 21. The Child Find mandate applies to all children who reside within a State. I wish I had known about this before my granddaughter started regular school and things would have been much easier. Some of the things they do.....have her jump on a small trampoline, do jumping jacks, push herself with hands while laying on a "toy car" as she goes down a hallway. She does this at beginning of day and any other time she starts sensory seeking (not keeping hands to self). She has a chew necklace which helps her during day. She always knocks over drinks. She has no-spill cups with flexible straws. Chewing on the straw helps. Sometimes they give her gum to chew. They have her do obstacle courses with jumping, swinging, climbing and going through a "wringer" which "squishes" her body. She sits on an inflatable pad that has little nubs, they put elastics on chair legs for her to play with so she can sit still. They play games with her but make up easier directions and started with only 5-10 minutes. Now they play longer and with more difficult directions. They warn her about upcoming transitions, ADHD kids really struggle with transition. They like everything to be consistent also and any little change they dont know about can throw them off. For behavior we have charts for everything, pictures and posters as reminders. For school behavior she got a "fish" in a jar every 15 minutes she listened, was safe and respectful. If she got so many by lunch she got a small reward. (she helped come up with the reward list) Make sure the number you chose is attainable you can make it more difficult as he reaches his goal easily. He wont buy into it if he can never achieve it. Then they did the same thing after lunch. Make a big deal about when things are going good. She now has 1 hour intervals she has improved so much. Sometimes she makes mistakes but they dont make huge deals of it and they dont punish her. It is all about positive behavior interventions. She knows when she does something wrong and she beats herself up about it enough on her own. This is not letting her get away with things and that has been proven by how hard she has tried and how much she has improved, but it takes many people to get all this to work and it is a lot on the teacher who has a handful of children like this in her class. Find out how child find works in your area he might be eligible for ocupational therapy, counseling and many other services. You will feel great if you can see how much you can help him! He obviously likes you and craves your attention whether it is good or bad attention. It is really tough and sometimes I forget some of the things I have been taught but I have to move on and remember that I am a great influence in her life and I will do whatever it takes to help her be successful. Good Luck!

 

[mguilford1]

When I forget to give my granddaughter her medicine she is literally off the wall she can not sit still! She stands on her head, does somersaults, kicks things, runs she just can not stop. Yells, screams and so much other activity that I cant even remember what. She will sit still occasionally if she is hyper focused on something and then I use to think she wasnt listening.... I could offer her chocolate ice cream and she wouldn't hear me if she was hyper focused. This starts to happen early evening when her medication starts wearing off. It does sound like he needs his medication checked. His parents may have never had to deal with this stuff before and have no idea what to look for or what to tell the doctor. I just reread your post....he is in elementary school then comes to your daycare? Sounds like medicine is wearing off not sure there is much you can do because they dont like to give more in afternoon because the child wont be able to fall asleep. Reward the good behavior! Have him help with ideas.

 

[bookwormde]

First, the best thing you can go long term is to refer the child to child watch, so he can be properly supported. He should have a special education plan and be in a setting with staff that is fully trained and funded to meet his needs.

This is not a "behavioral setting" solution, which if my guess is correct would be a disaster.

As for "cause he felt like it" without trying to be critical, since you have likely never had the depth of training to understand the breadth of disability issue, this is a naïve statement.

While I have little information to go on my first guess is that this is a child with Autism genetics, all be it a high functioning child. My other thought is that it might be a PTSD kid or a neglect kid, but you should be able to get a good sense of that from the parents (both).

Please you or the parents call the school district and have a child find referral done.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I work in a special needs preschool classroom. All of our kids have speech/language delays. We currently have two kids who are being watched for ADHD, and we've had several in past years.

A few things that may be hindering your student's success in the classroom:

- The number of kids in the room may be too stimulating for him. Our morning class has 9 kids and always has 3 adults. Our afternoon class (which has more challenging behaviors) only has 5 kids, but all 3 of us are kept plenty busy! Some kids immediately escalate as the number of kids in the room increases. A smaller environment might help him calm down some.

- We keep the environment relatively uncluttered. People who first walk in think we hardly have any toys. We have plenty, they're just not visible all the time. We keep things in bins with lids or in cupboards, and bring some of them out during free play time. If a toy is causing a problem (difficulties with sharing, unsafe play, etc.), it is put away. If you have a lot of toys around the room, it might be too overwhelming for your student. He might function better with less "stuff" around.

- His behavior is probably very reactive rather than willful. It sounds like his impulses get the best of him when his meds start wearing off. Sitting in a corner as punishment probably isn't going to help much. He probably doesn't have the ability to refrain from a behavior on his own. What you can do is try to recognize his triggers and head-off the behaviors. When are his behaviors at their most extreme? Is there a particular child he clashes with? Is there a particular toy that makes him feel possessive? Does he usually end up throwing small toys such as blocks? Does he do better during organized, group activities rather than free play? If so, steer him away from the things that trigger him. Most kids aren't completely random. You should be able to find a pattern. If you have the personnel, he might do well with an adult next to him during unstructured or free time. If he is being unsafe and hurting other kids, he may not be able to handle unstructured time and needs an adult to keep him busy during those times. If he tends to play well with one child, have an adult facilitate free play between the two in a quiet area.

- Above all, if he's hurting other kids, it needs to be stopped. Your administrators need to be kept informed each and every time there's an incident. You should document all unsafe incidents and injuries and share the information with your director. The child may need an alternate placement and you may be asked for written documentation to back up the recommendation.

That's about all I can offer. If the child is at least 3 years old, his local school district will evaluate him for services (at the request of the parents). This might be the best route to see what other help he can receive. Good luck!

 

[bookwormde]

Just a couple of notes, many states are birth mandate states under IDEA part C so evaluation and support starts at birth, sometimes by the SEA/LEA structure and sometimes though the DDDS department.

Anyone can refer a child, not just the parent (of course the parent must give permission for the evaluation and any support)

 

[Betty Rohrer]

having worked in daycare for 20+ years, how many adults in the room? if more than one, have one shadow him for a few days. writing in note book everything that happens. yes it is a lot of work but it will help getting an iea of what is actually happening not just the outbursts. look for any outside help that is for early intervention.

 

[barkley]

Im at a loss with one of the kids I work with. J is a great kid, when he wants to be. Friday for example he decided he didnt need to listen to anyone (which is a typical day). In the course of two hours he had tried to hurt another child by shoving a toy at him and kicked a freind in the face (splitting his lip). He aslo kicked another child later, cause he felt like it. When put in time out he runs away. There is no concuess that seems to work except sending him the the kitchen with our cook ( a tough old man, former cop, who makes him sit with his nose in the corner). Ive tried taking things away, not letting him do things he likes (such as playing with the pool table) or making him play table games (he throws parts). Ive tried giving him more active activities, but he gets in trouble with that too (ex. sent him to the room right next to ours to sweep (half wall between) and he proceded to smash the broom into the table. Hes been diagonosed with ADHD and is on medicine. Mom is at a loss too, dad can controll him but not in a way we can use at daycare. Any ideas? Im sick of feeling like I wanna cry at the end of the day!

some things jump out at me- 'when he wants to be', 'decided he didn't need to', 'cause he felt like it'.

if this is truly the case (choice on the child's part) then there's more going on than just the adhd.

ds was diagnosed with adhd as a preschooler and while he had his share of problems in the classroom, it never involved injuring other children or flat out refusing to do what he was told to do. it sounds to me like this is an impulse/behavioral issue that needs to be addressed separately from the adhd.

I echo others who say your setting might not be best for him. it's not safe for the other kids (and as the parent of an adhd kid it kills me when violent behaviors are explained away by this diagnosis b/c it's not the norm and it just puts a 'bad kid' label on the kids who have adhd and are violent in no way-the majority). it's also not a good environment for the child-if he is constantly getting in trouble in a 'school' setting he's going to get a negative attitude about school which will create bigger problems for him/parents/other students/staff down the line.

I'm surprised your director is allowing him to stay given he's injured or attempted to injure so many other kids. you do your best to help a child who has these challenges, but you don't put their needs above the safety of all the other children in the program

 

[barkley]

having worked in daycare for 20+ years, how many adults in the room? if more than one, have one shadow him for a few days. writing in note book everything that happens. yes it is a lot of work but it will help getting an iea of what is actually happening not just the outbursts. look for any outside help that is for early intervention.

wouldn't this have been done in order for the medical professional to accurately diagnose the adhd?

I ask cuz I keep hearing about the problem with 'doctors' who have little or no education in adhd making inappropriate diagnosis and loading kids up with meds for whom it does more harm than good (and can cause greater impulse/behavior issues).

op-was the child diagnosed while in your setting, if so there should have been lengthy observational paperwork done by his teachers/caregiver. if so you can compare the 'before' vs the current to see if the issues are improving/worsening in which case your director really needs to decide on a plan of action.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

the centers I worked at used the shadowing both before and after knowing what was problem. we used to help with any tough problems to help us see how and what was happening in room. sometimes we found an easy answer and sometime not. it is a lot of extra work but I have never found a child that was not worth it. we only got to that point a few times. sometimes just having director come in and spend a couple of hours just watching one child would give us the help we needed.

 

[Schmeck]

I disagree with everyone who says he should stay in the daycare and be 'observed'. The other children do not deserve to be terrorized by this out of control child. He needs help, out of this setting, and they need to be safe.

Hitting, kicking, pushing - these are behaviors and the child needs to be taught the consequences of choosing these behaviors and given better options to deal with feelings and emotions. I don't care if he's ADHD, on the freakin' spectrum, PTSD, or whatnot - he has no right to hit other kids.

I've worked with adolescents who have not learned the above lessons. Nothing like getting punched by a teenager 3 times my size, having a chair thrown at me, a table flipped onto me, and other actions aimed at me.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

there is a big difference between a preschooler and a teen. if every child who hits or bites is taken out of daycare, there would be no daycare. yes children need to learn better ways to handle things but you can not tell any child once and expect them to do it. daycare, and parents, are for teaching life skills. we had to write a report for both the child who bit and the child who was bitten. I can tell you how many times parents told me I was wrong their child never bit anyone. the parents had to sign each one and a copy was kept in childs file in office for a year, other childs name was not on copy just that parents. yes I spent most of my years with 1 and 2 year olds, wish I had a nickel for every time I said use your words, I could pay for a Disney vacation

 

[barkley]

there is a big difference between a preschooler and a teen. if every child who hits or bites is taken out of daycare, there would be no daycare. yes children need to learn better ways to handle things but you can not tell any child once and expect them to do it. daycare, and parents, are for teaching life skills. we had to write a report for both the child who bit and the child who was bitten. I can tell you how many times parents told me I was wrong their child never bit anyone. the parents had to sign each one and a copy was kept in childs file in office for a year, other childs name was not on copy just that parents. yes I spent most of my years with 1 and 2 year olds, wish I had a nickel for every time I said use your words, I could pay for a Disney vacation

interesting.

in the state I worked infant/toddler care (never designated as preschool at that age) and preschool in (as well as my kids attended in years later) there were severe consequences for biting. it was a bit more lax in the infant/toddler realm (since it's more common at that age) but once the kiddos hit preschool age it was pretty much a two strike rule-first bite the whole notification to parents (including the parents of the 'bitee'), second time they were out.

might have been because if skin was broken it was a mandatory report to licensing (or if the 'bitee' was taken to the doctor by their parent even if skin wasn't broken it was also mandatory), and providers were mandated to ensure that participants did not pose a direct threat (a substantial risk of harm to the health and safety of others) or they risked losing their licensing and child endangerment charges.


in the case of the what the op has posted-a one day example of in just two hours kicking another child in the face/splitting his lip, kicking another child, and intentionally attempting to injure a third I would have reservations as a parent that the center is putting the needs (or what they are gaining financially via tuition) of one child over the safety of all the others. having worked in the field I would have reservations that the center is violating licensing laws (sending the kid to the kitchen with the cook is a big red flag for me, our centers prohibited kids from being in the kitchen area and unless the 'cook' meets the requirements to be a care provider then we're looking at more licensing issues).


just my opinion.

 

[Schmeck]

there is a big difference between a preschooler and a teen. if every child who hits or bites is taken out of daycare, there would be no daycare. yes children need to learn better ways to handle things but you can not tell any child once and expect them to do it. daycare, and parents, are for teaching life skills. we had to write a report for both the child who bit and the child who was bitten. I can tell you how many times parents told me I was wrong their child never bit anyone. the parents had to sign each one and a copy was kept in childs file in office for a year, other childs name was not on copy just that parents. yes I spent most of my years with 1 and 2 year olds, wish I had a nickel for every time I said use your words, I could pay for a Disney vacation

Want to volunteer your child to be the punching bag?

 

[bookwormde]

If situations like this occur, trained staff needs to come in and work 1 on 1 to find out the causes.

While kids can strike out unexpectedly, if it is happening repeatedly, then someone is not doing their job (could be the parent, clinician and/or teacher) or does not understand how to do their job.