A pondering....

[metzgardesign]

This a a serious pondering I have had of late (and this thread is not intended to turn into a stink-fest)....but at what point does WDW stop being a 'vacation?'

I have been a WDW junkie for years. Went as a child in the '70's with my parents, went on my honeymoon, and virtually every subsequent year since. But we are now taking a break from it (for how long, or indefinitely....who knows?).

But, in that time I have seen the experience transform from a true vacation, where one could enjoy the parks as one chose to do.....maybe wait in some lines, but nothing outlandish (using FP's occasionally....but we honestly relax most of the time and really do not use them too terribly much....certainly do not plan a day around a certain FP acquisition system, or run to an attraction at rope drop....heck, we never have gone to rope drop).

I also remember when we could (not to too long ago in relativity) go down to the desk in the lobby and make our dining ADR's for the day, based on where we would be, and what sounded good. Now, one needs to decide 6 months ahead of time that having a rib-eye in the Canadian pavilion at 7:45 p.m. on Tuesday, is what sounds good.

And now, apparently, one needs to decide that riding Space Mountain at 2:15 two months from now, is the plan. You CAN still ride stand-by, but it is increasingly becoming obvious that may prove to be a very ill-advised decision on one's part. At least the current FP system still works to allow some immediacy and reactivity.

My pondering is "At what point does it stop being a fun vacation? At what point does one say 'Enough!'?"

I have always enjoyed our WDW vacations. Looked forward to them....time with my family and the friends we travel with. I have been guilty of meal planning for us all (more out of necessity than desire....I am still the type that prefers to walk by a restaurant and say "That sound good for dinner.".....but I am not willing to risk that approach for myself, but more importantly for everyone else in my group....."Sorry....no walk-ups tonight.").

As much as it breaks my heart, maybe all the new changes are my "Enough!" point. There has always been an amazing feeling when pulling up in my car to unload the luggage at our WDW resort.....but I feel that the Disney powers-that-be are engineering that magical sense of escape out of their destination.....particularly if I have to climb out of my car with my notebook full of dining and ride reservation notes. With my iPhone bleeping at me to inform me it's time to arrive at Splash Mountain for my appointed ride time.

I admire all the people that can operate in that sort of system....but, for me, a 'vacation' is an attempt to get away from all that.

What really solidified it for us, was our 9 year old child (at the time) actually saying to me last year that "WDW was not fun anymore." He loves the rides and the arrival at the MK.....but didn't enjoy much of the pre-planned arrangements. He actually enjoyed out time at Universal far more (and he is not really a thrill-ride kid)....he liked the more relaxed feeling of the park. But that's neither here nor there.....apples to oranges, as it were. Just telling (to me) that a child says on the drive home, that they are OK with NOT going back to Disney anytime soon.

Made me question why we all pay so much money to get away from the daily regimentation, only to experience even more of that.

Not an attack on any level towards anyone who does not see any of it this way. Just my thoughts from a long-time WDW visitor.

Just my sad thoughts on how it's changing so incredibly much.

 

[worm761]

I agree with you to an extent. We are the people that go with dining reservations and that is about all. I might know which park which day but we have been known to just hop on the first bus that pulls up too.

Have you considered telling this to Disney? They might appreciate the feedback that they are losing a longtime customer due to the changes they are making. They cannot know if no one tells them.

 

[khaleesi]

When it stops being fun, it stops being fun.... whatever the reason. For me, the planning is part of the fun. I'm not a "lay on the beach and do nothing on vacation" kind of person. I want to go, see, experience, do, learn... and I'm that way with any kind of vacation. Heck, I do that for my weekends! Disney just makes it a lot easier for me to do it that way.

 

[tjmj9801]

We love WDW just like everyone here. But I refuse to plan on where I will eat and what I will ride months in advance. We mainly eat at CS for that reason. I know some people thrive on the planning, but we can't vacation like that. We stay busy constantly, we hit RD. But a minute by minute itinerary is something I refuse to conform to. If this is the future of my "vacation home", I'm truly sad. No, this won't make us stop coming. But it just won't be the same.

 

[LilyWDW]

It is still a vacation for me. Then again, whenever I travel I plan. I might make reservations and even buy tickets for attractions ahead of time. So a Disney trip is no different for me. In fact, I am excited about FP+ and MDE.

 

[P'colaBeachBum]

It got to the point we stopped "planning" our trip and just go with the flow. We go so often that we just do what ever strikes us at the moment. It has been harder to get in restaurants, but I know we won't starve. Never been to a rope drop and no plans on ever doing so. We just like to get away for a couple of days and find we spend more time at the resorts.

May be take a break for a year or two.

 

[JessiMommy]

I completely understand what you are saying and agree for the most part. I too have visited multiple times a year since going in the 70's as a child. Planning is part of the fun for me but you are right, there needs to be some spontaneity too. I don't think my family has reached the point that yours has yet and I hope it doesn't. I'm still waiting to see what the long term affect of this fastpass + has on things. I think the PP is right, you should write or email Disney with your concerns. Heck, just copy and paste your post from here. Hope you enjoy your next vacation wherever it may take you.

 

[Devilsangel7681]

I know exactly what you mean.


My husband and I have a busy busy home life with our work schedules, mostly his. When we go on vacation the point of going is so we don't have to plan our trip at all, it just happens as it happens. Disney seems to be thriving on the "more planning you do the more you get to see" mentality, and I ask if that's a good thing?

I acknowledge that since so many people visit Disney World some of that planning is essential to just being able to get everything you want to do in the time you are there. And to that I respond with maybe picking a new vacation spot all together, or accepting that since there are so many people you will just have to plan your vacation to the death when you visit Mickey land. Also the realization may be that a lot of people simply don't get to go to Disney as often as you do, so if you miss some things because you didn't plan be happy that there is always the next trip to experience it.

Planning can be a double edged sword. Everything is good in moderation. If you are spending your money on your vacation and not even enjoying it is probably time to take a step back and analyze how you can change that, whether it be a new vacation destination or being ok with the laid back approach to Disney- which may forfeit your opportunities for the things you want to see and do.

There is still a lot of relaxation to be had at Disney World outside the theme parks (ie golf, water parks, putt putt for your kiddo, or just a day in Downtown Disney). And for the days you do visit the park maybe that will be your 1 or 2 days to actually plan some things.

Hope this helps.

 

[Wendybird55]

Everyone has their own opinion of what a vacation should be and what they enjoy and don't enjoy. And everyone has that right and shouldn't let anyone else influence what you think a great vacation is.

I find the more I go to Disney the more I can enjoy it as I don't worry as much about the pre-planning. Like you I enjoy the flexibility of deciding then and there where I want to eat or what I want to do on a particular day and sometimes get annoyed with having to pre-plan certain things. But in the grand scheme it's not that important...if a line is too long I don't wait and if I'm not in the mood to go back for a fast pass time I don't. I don't run around trying to get fast passes or waste 1 1/2 to 2 hours holding the perfect spot to see a parade of fireworks. We've been to Disney so many times that if I don't get to do a particular ride or attraction I don't feel cheated. In that respect we kind of go more with the flow now and enjoy what comes along.

I do agree though that the dining is a pain. The 180 day out ADR time is way too early but if you don't make some ADRS then you may end up with nothing. So I do tend to plan dining and special treats such as Wishes dessert and fishing. However, we are leaving next Sunday and I am still moving around some dining plans based on changes in mood. In fact last night I cancelled O'hana and BOG realizing they didn't work for us and we really didn't need or have to go to either.

When we travel I always have our dining reservations handy and WDW dining # in cell phone and have often changed and booked ADRs while on our trip.

When you've had enough of all the planning and changes and Disney no longer is the enjoyable vacation you want it to be then it's time to move on. Heck, we all work hard and put up with a wide variety of stresses and problems throughout the year - we all deserve a wonderful vacation we can enjoy and if that's no longer Disney for now that's OK - there are so many other wonderful places you can go. In fact my husband and I are thinking of something different for next year as DS will be 7 in Sept and this upcoming trip to Disney will be his 7th. Though we've taken him on other trips. now that he's getting older we feel he'll be able to enjoy some of the other places we want to go such as Yosemite or Alaska so our big trip next year will probably not be Disney which I think it's about time.

 

[metzgardesign]

I guess maybe it's what one is used to. If a visitor has mostly be exposed to the current dining reservation system, then maybe it isn't as concerning to them. It's just "the way it is."

I recall staying at the AKL when it first opened, my wife and I (before our son came along), and our server at our arrival night at Boma talking to us a bit and telling us about his fave on-site places to eat. And then just going to the desk in the lobby after dinner and setting up ressies at some of those recommendations.

That sort of adaptability (on both our and WDW's part) is what we miss.

I suppose we could plan dining less and eat CS.....but part of trips (an important part) is the experiences of trying other, unique foods and atmospheres.

I would express my thoughts to the Disney folks (and probably will), but, I fear that their plans are so embedded into current and future operations that they are impervious to changes, at this point. I also feel that, due to the operation's scope and scale, that these changes are being implemented with a vision of more efficient operations, and very little realizations of the complications and outcomes.

Corporate tunnel vision....some would call it.

And maybe the current and planned systems don't bother others (as shown at least here) as much as they do us.

WDW does rely at least a little bit on the nostalgic aspect of what they offer (heck.....many of their original attractions depend almost entirely on that principle). I just fear that nostalgia and love of what WDW means to many is being killed (or at least damaged) by the recent direction of its operations. Walt's original visions and dreams and implementations are being replaced by poor theory, practice and trial-and-error (leaning towards error far too often, I fear....look at the current trainwrecks of technology on-line and even on-site).

Eh.....I guess, to me, it seems like the magical escapism is being replaced by methodical planning. Some really enjoy that type of planning....but, as detail orientated and on-point as I tend to be.....WDW is one place I have preferred to be a bit (a lot) more go-with-the-flow.....and the flow seems to be increasingly dictated by unnecessary dams and locks, as it were.

 

[Dan Murphy]

.....I suppose we could plan dining less and eat CS.....but part of trips (an important part) is the experiences of trying other, unique foods and atmospheres.....

I do agree that the dining plans and the "free" dining have pretty much ruined dining at Disney World.

 

[Luvchefmic]

I guess maybe it's what one is used to. If a visitor has mostly be exposed to the current dining reservation system, then maybe it isn't as concerning to them. It's just "the way it is."

I recall staying at the AKL when it first opened, my wife and I (before our son came along), and our server at our arrival night at Boma talking to us a bit and telling us about his fave on-site places to eat. And then just going to the desk in the lobby after dinner and setting up ressies at some of those recommendations.

That sort of adaptability (on both our and WDW's part) is what we miss.

I suppose we could plan dining less and eat CS.....but part of trips (an important part) is the experiences of trying other, unique foods and atmospheres.

I would express my thoughts to the Disney folks (and probably will), but, I fear that their plans are so embedded into current and future operations that they are impervious to changes, at this point. I also feel that, due to the operation's scope and scale, that these changes are being implemented with a vision of more efficient operations, and very little realizations of the complications and outcomes.

Corporate tunnel vision....some would call it.

And maybe the current and planned systems don't bother others (as shown at least here) as much as they do us.

WDW does rely at least a little bit on the nostalgic aspect of what they offer (heck.....many of their original attractions depend almost entirely on that principle). I just fear that nostalgia and love of what WDW means to many is being killed (or at least damaged) by the recent direction of its operations. Walt's original visions and dreams and implementations are being replaced by poor theory, practice and trial-and-error (leaning towards error far too often, I fear....look at the current trainwrecks of technology on-line and even on-site).

Eh.....I guess, to me, it seems like the magical escapism is being replaced by methodical planning. Some really enjoy that type of planning....but, as detail orientated and on-point as I tend to be.....WDW is one place I have preferred to be a bit (a lot) more go-with-the-flow.....and the flow seems to be increasingly dictated by unnecessary dams and locks, as it were.

I agree with so much that you have said and I think you summarized it extremely well with the part I put in bold No it is no longer the same experience and I think for those of us that have gone for a very long time we do see the changes

 

[metzgardesign]

I do agree that the dining plans and the "free" dining have pretty much ruined dining at Disney World.

I agree. Not only has to severely impacted availabilities, but quality (in my eyes). Menus have become far more homogenized, with perhaps a 'leaning' towards hints of what the particular venue is themed towards (in many cases). The international pavilion restaurants still seem to maintain more of their uniqueness, however.

 

[BlueStarryHat]

When I first started going to WDW there was no such thing as FP and to get a dining reservation at Epcot you went to a kiosk and spoke with a live person to try and get a table. I enjoyed it then, and I enjoy it now with all the ADR stuff and FP (and soon to be FP+). But this is probably because I'm not a spontaneous type of person when it comes to my vacations. For me, planning is half the fun.

But I get where you're coming from. I once took a 7 year break from Disney because I felt burnt out and I'd had a vacation there that wasn't all I'd hoped it would be. Sometimes a break-even a long one-is what's needed. Disney will still be there if you decide to return.

 

[Jennasis]

Nobody has to use FP. You can still ride anything you want on the standby line (which Disney claims SHOULD become shorter with FP+) without being slave to a schedule.

 

[khaleesi]

I think burnout is burnout. So they take away the fastpasses... then everyone is still waiting in line. They take away the ADRs, then everyone is still trying to get the same reservations.

Maybe it's because I enjoy the planning, but to me it seems like current system should work great for everyone. If you want to plan, you can plan. If you don't want to, then you don't have to.

Spontaneity makes me twitchy. I don't enjoy it.

 

[huge mickey fan]

I understand your pondering. I am a planner. Spreadsheets are out and color coded to the hilt for the trip. However I refuse to plan on riding rides at a certain time. I can plan to my hearts content but something inevitably change my plans. We may sleep longer, buses might be slower, etc. I overly planned for the trips several years ago and the more trips under our belts the less we plan. We have done most of it (it is always changing so ALL is a bit tricky) so we know what to do and when. From there it is back to good old fashioned FUN!!

 

[sporter]

I share you pain.

I don't like the concept of FP+. I do like and enjoy FP in it's original form.

As far as not being a vacation. I think WDW and DLR are not for everyone, however I enjoy putting a little effort forward to have a great time.

It is not a lay down on the beach type of get away, but rather an experience to take your mind off of the real world for a week. At least that's what it is for our family.

 

[metzgardesign]

When I first started going to WDW there was no such thing as FP and to get a dining reservation at Epcot you went to a kiosk and spoke with a live person to try and get a table. I enjoyed it then, and I enjoy it now with all the ADR stuff and FP (and soon to be FP+). But this is probably because I'm not a spontaneous type of person when it comes to my vacations. For me, planning is half the fun.

But I get where you're coming from. I once took a 7 year break from Disney because I felt burnt out and I'd had a vacation there that wasn't all I'd hoped it would be. Sometimes a break-even a long one-is what's needed. Disney will still be there if you decide to return.

See....and if that's you, then cool. I realize some will be that sort of visitor. And, unfortunately, I sort of had a "Ahhhh" moment last trip in my resort room (even though I had twitches of realization on previous recent trips). I kind of enjoyed planning dining for our group....looking over menus and such (even though I found it somewhat stressful to try and accommodate everyone's wishes and and time preferences, etc.). I looked at my sheet of printed out ADR's and asked myself....."How ridiculous is that?" Literally. "I made these dining plans 6 months ago.....Insane."

Nobody has to use FP. You can still ride anything you want on the standby line (which Disney claims SHOULD become shorter with FP+) without being slave to a schedule.

You kind of missed the point. The discussions of this idiotic FP+ implementation are what provoked this line of thought.

I am utterly amazed that a system is being put in place to reserve ride times two months out. Nuts. A completely crazy concept, which, in theory (and by that, I mean very obtuse theory.....boardroom "This may work" theory) would maybe sound good, but in practice is going to, I think, crap the bed in a monumental scope. That is, if they can even develop a technological support system that works with any efficiency whatsoever.

This is an allusion the that "corporate tunnel vision" I mentioned. I think the suits got so wrapped up in the concept, and the desire for implementation, that little concern was given initially....to the feasibility. "It sounds 'great' and by George.....we'll make it work, sort of-ish."

Yes....one can still ride stand-by....and one can hope Disney suddenly has complete accuracies in their predictions that the system will make everyone's experiences more pleasurable.

 

[minnie mum]

I just erased a long post where I waxed philosophically about the changes in WDW over the years and my family's response to it. But I highly doubt that anyone else would/could/should care one way or the other about my opinion. So let me just say this. Different people want different things from their vacations. Heck- a lot of people want different things at different times from their vacations. Sometimes we want a relaxing, no stress, kick back and do nothing trip. Sometimes we want to do things requiring a lot more energy and pre-planning.

For us, if we want that first kind of trip, we don't go to WDW. We'll find a nice beach some place and get a good book and a fancy rum drink from the pool bar.

If we want that second kind of trip, we'll consider WDW as one of the possibilities. I don't mind a little planning. I'll book my ADRs in advance, but I don't wail and bemoan my ruined vacation if I can't get every one of my first choices 180 days out. We stopped using the Dining plan years ago, and haven't missed it. I'll pick my vacation dates so that we go during quieter times of the year so that I don't have to worry about crowds, long standby lines and FPs being gone before noon. I'm content to still play the wait and see game regarding MDE and FP+. If it works as advertised, then fine and dandy. If it turns into a billion dollar disaster, then we'll decide at that time if we need to take a long hiatus from the World if pixie dust and magic.

Maybe I'm just one of those awful pragmatists who never saw WDW as the be all and end all of vacation destinations. There are just SO many alternatives out there if you just look. If and when WDW becomes too much work and not enough enjoyment, we'll just put it in our rear view mirror and say thanks for the memories.