a change I wish I could make

[tankin]

Teachers should be respectful to your decision in taking your child out for a family trip. They should also keep you up dated on homework and give you assignments to work on while your child will be gone. My parents always took me out during the school year when places are less busy (I don't do well in crowds). My teacher would not only give us what the missed homework would be, but would also ask us to write a report on what we learned during our trip. Most teachers are always behind in their teaching schedules as well. Almost every time I came back from vacation, I would be ahead of the class.

My wife is a teacher so I ask you these questions ...
1. Whose going to teach your child all of the concepts they miss while you are gone? Most if not all of those are evaluated on state testing.
2. Unlike in years past, your teacher's job and raise depends on those scores in a number of districts. Gone are the days where bad teachers were allowed to remain in school districts. The primary means of accessing a teacher's ability is now standardized testing.
3. Your districts state funding may depend on those scores. In fact in our state, if your scores fall too low for a number of years, the state assumes control of the school district.

My parents took me out of school as a child too... then again I didn't have homework in kindergarten either (all 3 of my kids have). International stats show that we don't treat education seriously enough in the US anyway. Of course you always have the final option, homeschooling works wonders for some families and you can travel whenever you want.

 

[natmom]

My wife is a teacher so I ask you these questions ...
1. Whose going to teach your child all of the concepts they miss while you are gone? Most if not all of those are evaluated on state testing.
2. Unlike in years past, your teacher's job and raise depends on those scores in a number of districts. Gone are the days where bad teachers were allowed to remain in school districts. The primary means of accessing a teacher's ability is now standardized testing.
3. Your districts state funding may depend on those scores. In fact in our state, if your scores fall too low for a number of years, the state assumes control of the school district.

My parents took me out of school as a child too... then again I didn't have homework in kindergarten either (all 3 of my kids have). International stats show that we don't treat education seriously enough in the US anyway. Of course you always have the final option, homeschooling works wonders for some families and you can travel whenever you want.

Why is it that your children have homework in kindergarten? It seems like a lot for parents to work an 8 hour day ( minimum) and then come home and help their child with homework (especially kindergarten!) The time in the evening between parent and child should be enjoyable family time, playing a board game, making a puzzle, having a nice dinner, bath time, that time shouldn't be spent finishing up school work. If there isn't enough time between sept and June to complete the curriculum for the school year then perhaps the summer should be shortened. In Europe children do not have the entire summer off. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to help my child with homework as long as they aren't watching movies and having parties at school ( which seems to happen a lot in my DD's school)

 

[Dug720]

Why is it that your children have homework in kindergarten? It seems like a lot for parents to work an 8 hour day ( minimum) and then come home and help their child with homework (especially kindergarten!) The time in the evening between parent and child should be enjoyable family time, playing a board game, making a puzzle, having a nice dinner, bath time, that time shouldn't be spent finishing up school work. If there isn't enough time between sept and June to complete the curriculum for the school year then perhaps the summer should be shortened. In Europe children do not have the entire summer off. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to help my child with homework as long as they aren't watching movies and having parties at school ( which seems to happen a lot in my DD's school)

Technically homework should be something your child can do alone, reviewing and reinforcing what was taught in class. We as teachers need to know what your child has grasped and what they need help with. If parents are "helping" (which in many cases means they did it - not all cases, but we can tell), it's harder for us to know where to help them, which contributes to the slow pace as they grow and have to be "retaught" concepts when in reality they never grasped it.

 

[natmom]

Technically homework should be something your child can do alone, reviewing and reinforcing what was taught in class. We as teachers need to know what your child has grasped and what they need help with. If parents are "helping" (which in many cases means they did it - not all cases, but we can tell), it's harder for us to know where to help them, which contributes to the slow pace as they grow and have to be "retaught" concepts when in reality they never grasped it.

But isn't is a little much to expect a 4 or 5 year old to spend 6 hours in school and then do homework in the evening?

 

[Dug720]

But isn't is a little much to expect a 4 or 5 year old to spend 6 hours in school and then do homework in the evening?

Blame race to the top and standardized testing.

Now EVERYONE has to deal with the Common Core Learning Standards, which based on how dumbed-down everything has been seem ridiculously high, but compared to when I was in school, are normal.

 

[Fielhol]

I live in Canada. So it's not frowned upon to take our children out of school. I was actually a bit shocked to read of some the rules other schools have for vacations in other countries. But that being said, I wouldn't take my kids out of school if they were doing poorly in school. All 3 of my kids are all progressing very well in their respective grades with no worries. We just had our parent teacher interviews and I let them all know that the kids will be away in February. And while my kids learn very little on vacation. Besides seeing how not every child is as fortunate as them, and seeing how these children live on the islands, my children just relax. There is no work to take mom and dad away from them. There is no phones, Internet, school, Etc. There is nothing but very valued family time. And that is priceless.

So to each their own. And if you can go on vacation. Then do!! And don't feel guilty, or that you have to make excuses of why you are going.

 

[natmom]

I live in Canada. So it's not frowned upon to take our children out of school. I was actually a bit shocked to read of some the rules other schools have for vacations in other countries. But that being said, I wouldn't take my kids out of school if they were doing poorly in school. All 3 of my kids are all progressing very well in their respective grades with no worries. We just had our parent teacher interviews and I let them all know that the kids will be away in February. And while my kids learn very little on vacation. Besides seeing how not every child is as fortunate as them, and seeing how these children live on the islands, my children just relax. There is no work to take mom and dad away from them. There is no phones, Internet, school, Etc. There is nothing but very valued family time. And that is priceless. So to each their own. And if you can go on vacation. Then do!! And don't feel guilty, or that you have to make excuses of why you are going.

I live in Canada too and have never had a problem taking my kids out of school for a vacation. I agree, family time is priceless and I put a lot of value in it.

 

[TwinPrincessMermaids]

Its the testing and scores etc that is basically all they care about. Trust me. I have experience in this at the moment, a 2nd grader in a very recently broken home who is at a 5th grade AR reading level, and all his teacher does is mark him off and mark off and mark off if his "a" isn't completely closed or if he forgets a comma. Instead of saying, 'Hey great! You aren't completely coming unhinged while your family is falling apart, good for you." all she does is mark off and mark off and mark off.

I don't ever remember having to spell "Astronomy" in 2nd grade, do you? The amount of time his single parent has to spend with him during the week for homework is frankly ridiculous. So is homework in kindergarden! That is plain ridiculous. And before you credit his hard working teachers with his 5th grade reading level, those are the books he reads AT HOME and he could read long before he even went to school (thanks to his parents.) He is really quickly headed to homeschool at this rate.

The pressure on these poor kids is unreal. I would be ashamed of myself if I was his teacher. I seriously would. The way his teacher treats and marks off any possible self esteem this hard working kid has each assignment and her emails to his mother actually put his newly single mother into TEARS. Its second grade, not college grad.

When did they stop caring about kids?! The teacher knows his home is a recently broken one and has offered no help at all and put the kid under tremendous pressure to constantly get his agenda points up, no mistakes, she complains if he puts a piece of paper inside his desk instead of his backpack, and I'm seriously not kidding! I wish I were exaggerating. She complains so much about little things that his single mother has been considering switching schools altogether because of this teacher.

I hope you teachers reading this see this. Spending several hrs a night doing homework is ridiculous. It rules their lives right now. Thank goodness his mother gets to take him out of school for hawaii this year! Otherwise, all they would do is homework the entire year, other than weekends, they barely have time to spend with each other. (They also have had to attend court mandated family in transition classes a few times at night during the week. Its just frankly way too much in addition to the late homework and fitting in church, which is number one important.)

 

[tankin]

Why is it that your children have homework in kindergarten? It seems like a lot for parents to work an 8 hour day ( minimum) and then come home and help their child with homework (especially kindergarten!) The time in the evening between parent and child should be enjoyable family time, playing a board game, making a puzzle, having a nice dinner, bath time, that time shouldn't be spent finishing up school work. If there isn't enough time between sept and June to complete the curriculum for the school year then perhaps the summer should be shortened. In Europe children do not have the entire summer off. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to help my child with homework as long as they aren't watching movies and having parties at school ( which seems to happen a lot in my DD's school)

I've asked the same question ... My oldest actually had more homework in Kindergarten than in 1st or 2nd grade... Even better, it was her homework instead of my homework (Every night I have the read 15 minutes plus review their sight words plus due any worksheets with them)

Then again ... In kindergarten I was working on ABCs ... My kids are writing sentences.

 

[natmom]

Its the testing and scores etc that is basically all they care about. Trust me. I have experience in this at the moment, a 2nd grader in a very recently broken home who is at a 5th grade AR reading level, and all his teacher does is mark him off and mark off and mark off if his "a" isn't completely closed or if he forgets a comma. Instead of saying, 'Hey great! You aren't completely coming unhinged while your family is falling apart, good for you." all she does is mark off and mark off and mark off.

I don't ever remember having to spell "Astronomy" in 2nd grade, do you? The amount of time his single parent has to spend with him during the week for homework is frankly ridiculous. So is homework in kindergarden! That is plain ridiculous. And before you credit his hard working teachers with his 5th grade reading level, those are the books he reads AT HOME and he could read long before he even went to school (thanks to his parents.) He is really quickly headed to homeschool at this rate.

The pressure on these poor kids is unreal. I would be ashamed of myself if I was his teacher. I seriously would. The way his teacher treats and marks off any possible self esteem this hard working kid has each assignment and her emails to his mother actually put his newly single mother into TEARS. Its second grade, not college grad.

When did they stop caring about kids?! The teacher knows his home is a recently broken one and has offered no help at all and put the kid under tremendous pressure to constantly get his agenda points up, no mistakes, she complains if he puts a piece of paper inside his desk instead of his backpack, and I'm seriously not kidding! I wish I were exaggerating. She complains so much about little things that his single mother has been considering switching schools altogether because of this teacher.

I hope you teachers reading this see this. Spending several hrs a night doing homework is ridiculous. It rules their lives right now. Thank goodness his mother gets to take him out of school for hawaii this year! Otherwise, all they would do is homework the entire year, other than weekends, they barely have time to spend with each other. (They also have had to attend court mandated family in transition classes a few times at night during the week. Its just frankly way too much in addition to the late homework and fitting in church, which is number one important.)

Wow, that is so sad. That teacher is doing more damage than good, poor kid, poor mom

 

[TheLanes]

I've asked the same question ... My oldest actually had more homework in Kindergarten than in 1st or 2nd grade... Even better, it was her homework instead of my homework (Every night I have the read 15 minutes plus review their sight words plus due any worksheets with them) Then again ... In kindergarten I was working on ABCs ... My kids are writing sentences.

Thank goodness these grades are getting harder! Our education system in the US was turning into a joke. My Kindergartner and 1st grader have to read 20 minutes a night. They can already read so well! The math being given to them is harder than I remember. My reaction? Great!!!!!!!!

To the kid being pushed by his teacher: great! As long as he isn't being unfairly singled out, seems fine to me

 

[Metsoskil]

Start with your local school board and proceed to the state level.

Contrary to popular belief, the Federal government (department of education) has almost no say on these issues - they are handled almost entirely at the state and local level.

Talk to members of your local school board. Talk to your state legislators.

This is both true and not.

Yes, local school boards and state DOEs make policy decisions such as these.

However, the reason many districts are choosing to have no-vacation policies are due to the stresses being put on them to make sure that all students pass standardized tests in order to comply with federal mandates.

When the federal government stops defining "education" as the passing of multiple choice tests and eliminates penalties for districts viewing education as anything else, you may see changes in district policies to see the value of family time and educational travel (along with many other things that are being lost like creativity, innovation, critical thinking, enteprenaurial spirit, perseverance, appreciation for things that are beautiful, and pretty much any of the other characteristics that allowed Walt to be successful.)

 

[TwinPrincessMermaids]

This is both true and not.

Yes, local school boards and state DOEs make policy decisions such as these.

However, the reason many districts are choosing to have no-vacation policies are due to the stresses being put on them to make sure that all students pass standardized tests in order to comply with federal mandates.

When the federal government stops defining "education" as the passing of multiple choice tests and eliminates penalties for districts viewing education as anything else, you may see changes in district policies to see the value of family time and educational travel (along with many other things that are being lost like creativity, innovation, critical thinking, enteprenaurial spirit, perseverance, appreciation for things that are beautiful, and pretty much any of the other characteristics that allowed Walt to be successful.)

INSERT LIKE BUTTON HERE

 

[Gabe1]

I am an elected Board of Ed member. Our student handbook that the administration creates off of school board policy condones travel during non vacation times. Our policy is not vacation friendly however administration have taken some grand liberties when creating the student handbooks and it is annoying.

I'm a bad girl and board member. I rip my kids out of school every fall for 2 weeks to Disney. This makes the administrators and teachers more angry with me than they are with most parents sighting I lead by poor example, in their not so humble opinion. My kids always do all the homework and I've found some of the teachers have actually piled on more as revenge. My DH cannot travel during standard break times as they do not align with his employers vacation close downs.

I've done this year in and year out, my kids remained honor students and none of the gloom and doom projected by their teachers about not being able to recover has never materialized.

Hint: If it is going to be a shorter trip, call them in sick if you can trust your kids to keep their mouths closed or call them out of school for a family emergency or even better for personal reasons. Personal days are afforded to staff and never do districts volunteer this option to students. Remember they cannot ask WHAT the personal days are for, same as staff. It is Personal.

 

[RHSTigerMom]

Grumpy's wife here, I'm glad my husband posted! To be honest, and I'll probably get reamed for this, there are so many complaints I just want to say STOP and listen to yourselves. Think about what's being said and the validity of it all. When a family goes on a cruise, thousands of other people will be there too. If that's not something you like or can deal with, go somewhere else. If you don't want to be around smoke, don't go to a DESIGNATED smoking area. The point of a vacation is to be with people you care about while you relax and enjoy some time away. How can that be done if no one is courteous enough to compromise? As for policies and rules... It is impossible to please 100% of the population so the best alternative is to create policies that will cover the most important issues pertaining to a huge mass. We as people, and customers, need to UNDERSTAND that not everything will be in our favor. I hear complaints about the cost of the cruise, smoking on the balconies, wearing shorts in the dining room, etc. Shorts in the dining room, really? Who cares? What does someone's outfit have to do with enjoying a meal? As long as the clothing, or lack of, is suitable for all audiences... I don't care what you're wearing. My question is simply put, WHY is it so important that complaints are worth the time and energy they require? If the cost is too high- save longer or choose a different option. If shorts shouldn't be worn in the dining room- don't wear them and don't pay attention to those who do. Really these issues aren't worth being called issues, they seem more like an excuse to complain. I can understand both points about smoking on the balconies. I do not smoke nor do I like to be around it but at the same time, I do not try to make it impossible for others or try to make their smoke breaks miserable. If you want to smoke on the balcony that you PAID for, go for it. I might ask, politely of course, is that if I'm out there with a child when you come out, that you could hold off for a little while, at least a few minutes to get inside. Or I simply go inside on my own and come out later. Compromise. Vacationing during the school year... yes, it's much cheaper and not as crowded (from what I've been told), but then the kid(s) is out of school and has to learn and make up everything on their own (without the teacher). While I think there are some places that could be made into educational experiences, I don't think Disney Cruises fall into that category. Bottom line, we all need to do what is best for our families, but also think about what kind of example we are setting for our kids. Are we really taking them out of school for a Disney Cruise because it's "educational" or because of the great deal that was running? If this same trip was taken during the summer, the only differences being the dates and price, would it still be considered educational? If so, great, I'm happy that you can turn it into an educational opportunity. My husband and I on the other hand, use the "applicable life lessons" as the educational portion for our child. To take vacations, one must work hard, save, and plan. Patiences is a key and learning how to shop around will be extremely useful, that kind of theme. Really all of this is silly, I think. Go on a vacation that you and yours can afford and enjoy. Don't care about what others are doing or wearing, unless it is actually important (could lead to an injury, theft, indecent exposure.... those kinds of issues). Enjoy the special time, make new memories and new friends, think of all the wonderful possibilities. That's what is important about vacations. If your family can only go during the school year, then figure out if it works for you, and enjoy. The negative is pointless and drains everyone. Figure out the compromises you're willing to make and have fun making those precious memories that will live on. Ok, I'm done with my book. If anyone is offended by my post, I apologize. These are my opinions and feelings and I understand not everyone will agree. May you all make the most of your vacations and create many happy memories!

. Like!

 

[Gabe1]

This is both true and not.

Yes, local school boards and state DOEs make policy decisions such as these.

However, the reason many districts are choosing to have no-vacation policies are due to the stresses being put on them to make sure that all students pass standardized tests in order to comply with federal mandates.

When the federal government stops defining "education" as the passing of multiple choice tests and eliminates penalties for districts viewing education as anything else, you may see changes in district policies to see the value of family time and educational travel (along with many other things that are being lost like creativity, innovation, critical thinking, enteprenaurial spirit, perseverance, appreciation for things that are beautiful, and pretty much any of the other characteristics that allowed Walt to be successful.)

I, as a local BOE member have heard that rhetoric and that is all it is teachers and administrators finding excuses for poor performance. There is not any data that supports that theory or claim families that do not vacation during the school year score higher on standardize tests than students that vacation and trust me, we have challenged that rhetoric, there is zip data to support the vacation theory. They've stopped offering up that excuse. Actually with one of my kids year after year has hit several perfect scores with being pulled from school for 2 weeks annually.

Try and remember to be objective about the administrative gibberish they spew. If the facts they are spewing seem to be a major determinant, likely it is false. This is why there is a need for Federal and State mandates because for decades the excuses for failing standards just become more creative excuses.

If education was handled by the private sector they'd be gone with excuses like they spew.

 

[TCrawford095]

Blame race to the top and standardized testing.

Now EVERYONE has to deal with the Common Core Learning Standards, which based on how dumbed-down everything has been seem ridiculously high, but compared to when I was in school, are normal.

I'm not sure when you went to school, but the students are required to learn so much more at an earlier age now. I teach middle school math, and our students are required to learn concepts I didn't learn until mid-high school (solving systems of linear equations, factoring a square root, etc.) It's to the point that I honestly believe many of them are not cognitively ready for the concepts.

I wholeheartedly believe that education found outside the classroom walls is meaningful and important. However, they do miss a lot of instruction while out. Honestly, many of my parents don't even know how to do the math in middle school themselves. If they can't do the math, how can we expect them to instruct them while on vacation? It's just something to think about.

A child in my class was recently out for a week. The child missed so much instruction that he didn't understand how to do the packets sent home, and his parents didn't know how to help him. I tutored him afterschool for a week in order to catch him up and was happy to do so because he was ill and couldn't help it.

Just really think about it before pulling them out. It's harder than you think for most of them to catch up in middle school math. I don't know about the lower grades. Perhaps it's different.

 

[TCrawford095]

I, as a local BOE member have heard that rhetoric and that is all it is teachers and administrators finding excuses for poor performance. There is not any data that supports that theory or claim families that do not vacation during the school year score higher on standardize tests than students that vacation and trust me, we have challenged that rhetoric, there is zip data to support the vacation theory. They've stopped offering up that excuse. Actually with one of my kids year after year has hit several perfect scores with being pulled from school for 2 weeks annually.

Try and remember to be objective about the administrative gibberish they spew. If the facts they are spewing seem to be a major determinant, likely it is false. This is why there is a need for Federal and State mandates because for decades the excuses for failing standards just become more creative excuses.

If education was handled by the private sector they'd be gone with excuses like they spew.

Let's talk data. Does your "zip" data take into account how teachers went above and beyond to help the student when they missed a week? Does your lack of data account the the amount of time and resources allocated to the students who have to be retaught skills, not only that they missed while gone, but the skills they don't understand because they don't have the prerequisites to understand.

The fact is that good teachers will work to get the student up to par. You can't measure that given those variables, so I'm not surprised there is no data.

Look, this is not rocket science. A kid misses a week of school. Yes, he is most likely going to miss important concepts. Some can overcome that with parents who might have the ability to catch them up. Some have good teachers that spend time after hours to help them. No, it's not the end of the world. However, it's not an ideal situation either. It's something you have to really consider carefully for your child.

In my experience, a child who misses a week of school is worse off than one who didn't. Lack of data is no excuse for not considering the decision carefully.

On a side note to anyone in a school board member position: Despite what Neil Boortz says, most of the teachers I know really do care about the students. Instead of calling us out as excuse makers, try listening to our experience and working as a team. It sounds as if you have already closed your mind to the teachers and administrators because you don't respect them as professionals. That's probably the worst attitude possible for working as a team. I come from a family of private business owners, and that attitude doesn't work well in the public or private sector.

 

[Dug720]

On a side note to anyone in a school board member position: Despite what Neil Boortz says, most of the teachers I know really do care about the students. Instead of calling us out as excuse makers, try listening to our experience and working as a team. It sounds as if you have already closed your mind to the teachers and administrators because you don't respect them as professionals. That's probably the worst attitude possible for working as a team. I come from a family of private business owners, and that attitude doesn't work well in the public or private sector.

Thank you!!

Believe me, I would NOT have put up with all the stuff we get thrown at us - new evaluation systems every year, complete removal of ANY daily living skills from special ed curriculum (which ultimately helped to contribute to the autistic teen who ran away from his school a MONTH AND A HALF ago and has yet to be found - we're so busy focusing on collecting data and making sure every i is dotted and every t crossed on form after redundant form, it's easy to get lost in paperwork), more and more data forms being required so that we wonder when we're supposed to teach, etc., etc. - I would NOT have put up with all of this if I didn't care about the kids. Honestly they are about the only things keeping me from walking out the door and never looking back every single day.

 

[Gabe1]

I'm not sure when you went to school, but the students are required to learn so much more at an earlier age now. I teach middle school math, and our students are required to learn concepts I didn't learn until mid-high school (solving systems of linear equations, factoring a square root, etc.) It's to the point that I honestly believe many of them are not cognitively ready for the concepts.

I wholeheartedly believe that education found outside the classroom walls is meaningful and important. However, they do miss a lot of instruction while out. Honestly, many of my parents don't even know how to do the math in middle school themselves. If they can't do the math, how can we expect them to instruct them while on vacation? It's just something to think about.

A child in my class was recently out for a week. The child missed so much instruction that he didn't understand how to do the packets sent home, and his parents didn't know how to help him. I tutored him afterschool for a week in order to catch him up and was happy to do so because he was ill and couldn't help it.

Just really think about it before pulling them out. It's harder than you think for most of them to catch up in middle school math. I don't know about the lower grades. Perhaps it's different.

In most school systems curriculum is taught to the middle median, that is another reason why those who can afford send their students to private prep schools do so. Most school systems have abolished the tracking system that once elevated the brighter students. The curriculum of early elementary school, educators attempt to catch up the slower learners to the middle of the pack. Focus daily is on the middle and lower learners, little daily focus is placed on specific attention to the upper 1/3. That is what lead me to become a BOE member.

The practice overseas of fueling the upper 1/3 with the same vigor has been very successful. Homework in the US is the attempt to have students become self educated for what doesn't happen in standard school day. Studies show that homework should only be 15 minutes in each subject to only reinforce the concepts that were specifically taught that day. An hour or two of math at night does not reinforce a concept comprehended in the classroom. Either it is redundant busy work or a quick indicator that the concept was not taught well during the school day, the districts fault, not students. Parents should not have to teach anything.

Math is taught at a slow pace in the 3 most popular math curriculum text books. It is explained in simple language to the median intellect of a student in that grade. Parents that can read at an elementary reading level can grasp if they have the mindset to do so if their child is out of school for a family emergency, illness or on vacation.

The true elevated education can be seen by the amount of brilliant foreign students that run rings around our home grown brilliant students at University of Illinois and the University of Southern California. If you see the high percentage of foreign students at these state universities that were meant as state institutions for resident higher learners, the foreign students qualify for admission where many of our own home grown students fall short to qualify. What a good chunk of developed countries overseas have done is have expectations for instruction, instead of blaming parents and students. Parents on a whole are lethargic and act like robots without confronting their elected officials. This can be seen by how few parents ever attend a school board meeting and demand higher education during the school day over self teaching at night. Immediately the blame is on the student for not doing well in math, how many parents question the BOE as to why their students are leaving school at the end of the day not having a solid understanding of concepts that were taught during the day. It bugs me how many parents forget they are their students advocate.

The best thing we could have done with No Child Left Behind would have required every public school teacher to pass the Basic Skills Test instead of just new teachers. Too many were hired for their ability to coach a sport, club or activity over what institution they received their degree from and if they graduated with honors or skated by themselves.