50% Borrowing Rule

[bakerworld]

Hoping this 50% rule is taken away before I need to book September 2022 or we'll be unable to book the family trip in a 3br.

 

[Bay lake tower]

we are in the same boat, need the full borrowed points for a 2 bedder for my family as well as a studio for us, and buying back in 2010 the borrowing was also a huge factor, as we travel internationally and do a trip every 2 yrs on average now. fingers crossed.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I agree that it makes dvc a less appealing product

 

[jenr812]

We have been planning a huge trip at the end of next year for a while (preCOVID). We knew we would need to purchase a second contract to do so and are almost prepared to purchase. We have 100 direct points at AKV and will be buying another 100 at AKV so we can bank/use/borrow our way into a GV. I'm pretty stressed about this borrowing restriction, because that kills our plan completely. There is no sense in buying a second contract if we can't do this. We will just rent out our current contract and stay off site, which is NOT what I had envisioned when we bought into DVC.

Stupid COVID.

 

[New Mouse]

Maybe I am crazy on this one, but why is it ok for Disney to profit off one time use points when memebers arent even allowed to use what they have due to too many points being out in the wild?

 

[fgaini]

Hope it will be over soon. Make planning much more complex...

 

[princesscinderella]

We have been planning a huge trip at the end of next year for a while (preCOVID). We knew we would need to purchase a second contract to do so and are almost prepared to purchase. We have 100 direct points at AKV and will be buying another 100 at AKV so we can bank/use/borrow our way into a GV. I'm pretty stressed about this borrowing restriction, because that kills our plan completely. There is no sense in buying a second contract if we can't do this. We will just rent out our current contract and stay off site, which is NOT what I had envisioned when we bought into DVC.

Stupid COVID.

Maybe get a point transfer from the rental thread on the DIS so that way you get your big trip with less stress. And have points to use the following year too since you can’t borrow as much.

 

[tjkraz]

If the restriction continues into the future (I saw somewhere that it might be staying) then we might be looking at getting rid of our contracts altogether.

If you "saw" that, it was nothing more than idle chatter and speculation. Borrowing points is one of the key selling points of the program. DVC has little reason harm the program by needlessly restricting that benefit.

Maybe I am crazy on this one, but why is it ok for Disney to profit off one time use points when memebers arent even allowed to use what they have due to too many points being out in the wild?

I'll agree it's a bit of a bad look for DVC. But the one time use points are current year points Disney owns which are unsold. In fairness, I think it's reasonable to say that DVC should have higher priority to use its current year points than members to borrow more from a future year.

 

[New Mouse]

If you "saw" that, it was nothing more than idle chatter and speculation. Borrowing points is one of the key selling points of the program. DVC has little reason harm the program by needlessly restricting that benefit.



I'll agree it's a bit of a bad look for DVC. But the one time use points are current year points Disney owns which are unsold. In fairness, I think it's reasonable to say that DVC should have higher priority to use its current year points than members to borrow more from a future year.

But should Disney have priority to put limits in place after advertising to guests that if you just buy 50 points, you can pool them every 3 years.... to now forcing those same people to buy upcharge points? Its all pretty slimy.

 

[Sandisw]

But should Disney have priority to put limits in place after advertising to guests that if you just buy 50 points, you can pool them every 3 years.... to now forcing those same people to buy upcharge points? Its all pretty slimy.

I agree it’s a bad look, but do you think the better option would be using them to take rooms out of inventory and sell for cash?

As an owner, they would have every right to do that. Maybe it’s also a way to compensate them for all the points they used from their own inventory to extend banked points last year of owners? It appears they are doing it for international owners now too, something they were under no obligation to do.

I am not happy with them over the staffing issues for MS right now, but I think they have been more than fair with owners in the exceptions they made with expiring points.

Now, if sometime within 2022 this is not back? Then my position will be different.

 

[tjkraz]

But should Disney have priority to put limits in place after advertising to guests that if you just buy 50 points, you can pool them every 3 years.... to now forcing those same people to buy upcharge points? Its all pretty slimy.

DVC resorts sat empty for 3 months and then half-empty for the next 6 as people feared travel or were unable to travel from foreign countries. It would have been within DVC's right to disallow ALL special exceptions for those points.

DVC can't manufacture capacity out of thin air.

If memory serves, there are about 80 million points in the system. And the only way for members to collectively use all 80 million points is for every villa to be occupied about 360 nights out of the year. Well, that isn't possible when villas are closed for 3 months.

So for 2020, let's say there were 80 million points in owners' hands and only accommodations to host 60 million. But a lot of members didn't / couldn't travel, so maybe only 40 million points were actually used out of the 80.

Now in 2021, members are holding 40 million banked points PLUS their 80 million current year points. Well, you can't put 120 million points into 80 million worth of villas. And it's even harder if you allow members to liberally borrow from 2022.

These numbers are all hypothetical but they really aren't that far off the mark. The resorts WERE closed for 3 months. And we know they were operating at partial capacity thru most of 2020. The only way to dig out of this is a multi-year process of some points expiring unused, members willingly trading out of the system and more banked points used than new points borrowed.

DVC could have taken a hardline stance, forcing points to expire as scheduled and disallowing late cancellations. But they didn't. If I was the owner of a Week 15 in a fixed week timeshare--which would have started around April 10 in 2020--I wouldn't have gotten my week. Period. And the timeshare manager wouldn't have been able to otherwise compensate me because Week 15 2020 is...gone. "Sorry dude, your week fell during a pandemic. We can't bump someone else to give you a different week."

There's no playbook for running a timeshare during a pandemic. Overall I think DVC has done an admirable job of making exceptions. And even though the borrowing limit has--and will--hurt me personally, I also understand why it exists.

As for the one time use points, like @Sandisw said, current year points are DVC's to do with as they please. Yes, the optics are a little poor. But if DVC wasn't selling OTU points to owners, it would be in their rights to use those points for cash reservations. That wouldn't get us any closer to allowing unfettered borrowing.

 

[TCRAIG]

I agree it’s a bad look, but do you think the better option would be using them to take rooms out of inventory and sell for cash?

As an owner, they would have every right to do that. Maybe it’s also a way to compensate them for all the points they used from their own inventory to extend banked points last year of owners? It appears they are doing it for international owners now too, something they were under no obligation to do.

I am not happy with them over the staffing issues for MS right now, but I think they have been more than fair with owners in the exceptions they made with expiring points.

Now, if sometime within 2022 this is not back? Then my position will be different.

Thanks Sandisw - you always seem to be the ‘voice of reason’ in the cacophony of opinions here at the Dis!

 

[RebelScum]

but I think they have been more than fair with owners in the exceptions they made with expiring points

I agree with this. These restrictions are helping us avoid some more undesirable outcomes

Overall I think DVC has done an admirable job of making exceptions. And even though the borrowing limit has--and will--hurt me personally, I also understand why it exists.

Agree - I also have been negatively impacted by these changes, but realize that it is in the benefit of the larger membership. Honestly, Disney has been put in an impossible place having to deal with the closure and the resultant points compression, but I think they have been fair in how they implemented their policy changes and exceptions.

 

[RebelScum]

With regards to OTU points, I have never needed to buy them historically. However, I recently purchased 19 OTU points, which allowed me to complete a reservation with expiring points. With an April use year, I was faced with a few extra points at the end of last month that were going to expire. Historically, I would have borrowed from the next UY to gather enough points to make a reservation. However, with the borrowing restrictions, purchasing OTU points was the only way I could salvage those remaining points. Never needed them before, but glad the option was there last month!

 

[M:SpilotISTC12]

Maybe I'm nuts but I feel like they should had the 50% borrow rule and the pandemic cancelation guidelines be tied together. If they are going to restrict us on borrowing then we should have some flexibility with canceling. Either have it prepandemic normalcy or during pandemic guidelines. Any reason why they shouldn't that I'm missing?

 

[Sandisw]

Maybe I'm nuts but I feel like they should had the 50% borrow rule and the pandemic cancelation guidelines be tied together. If they are going to restrict us on borrowing then we should have some flexibility with canceling. Either have it prepandemic normalcy or during pandemic guidelines. Any reason why they shouldn't that I'm missing?

I think at this point, it makes sense to see the holding and the return of borrowed points ended. It means it keeps points current and those will need to be used now within current availabilit.

The borrowing restriction makes sure that all the extra banked points from last year are not competing for rooms with points being brought forward from borrowing being back to 100%.

 

[New Mouse]

I think at this point, it makes sense to see the holding and the return of borrowed points ended. It means it keeps points current and those will need to be used now within current availabilit.

The borrowing restriction makes sure that all the extra banked points from last year are not competing for rooms with points being brought forward from borrowing being back to 100%.

Im not sure they care about the competition considering the blanket statement of 50% borrowing let a lot of rooms go to waste during the reopening.

 

[Sandisw]

Im not sure they care about the competition considering the blanket statement of 50% borrowing let a lot of rooms go to waste during the reopening.

I think they have more data then we do and if it is still in place it is because they know those extra points need to stay where they are.

I didn’t mean competition in that sense, but rather considering how many banked points are in the system, allowing more then can be used would be irresponsible of them to the membership as a whole

 

[TeresaNJ]

When we bought into DVC, the ability to borrow was a huge factor for us. As of now, we don't have enough points to travel the way we like to and won't be able to as long as the 50% restriction stays in place. Another in a long list of my frustrations with DVC right now. We don't do a DVC trip every year so we need those borrowed points to book. If the restriction continues into the future (I saw somewhere that it might be staying) then we might be looking at getting rid of our contracts altogether.

This is what makes me so angry over the whole 50% thing. I worked for DVC for a year back in 2007. When I was going through training, the borrowing/banking factor was seared into our brain as a major selling point for DVC. We were told over and over to stress to a balking guest that they only need to purchase a certain amount of points to take their dream vacation every other year because of the benefit or b/b. Ugh. For them to keep this restriction in place for this long is so unacceptable.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

I agree it’s a bad look, but do you think the better option would be using them to take rooms out of inventory and sell for cash?

As an owner, they would have every right to do that. Maybe it’s also a way to compensate them for all the points they used from their own inventory to extend banked points last year of owners? It appears they are doing it for international owners now too, something they were under no obligation to do.

I am not happy with them over the staffing issues for MS right now, but I think they have been more than fair with owners in the exceptions they made with expiring points.

Now, if sometime within 2022 this is not back? Then my position will be different.

Very good point. Question...could someone buy points from another owner to complete a reservation? You mentioned the limits on buying extra points directly from DVC, but do those restrictions hold true when buying points from other DVC members? I really appreciate all your knowledge when it comes to the finer details of DVC...I am still a "rookie". LOL.

Hopefully the 50% borrowing restriction gets lifted next year, although I do 100% understand why it's in place and am OK with it at this time. We are planning to book Aulani for my daughter's HS graduation and we will need to borrow 50% plus another 12 points (based on current point charts, so that may change a little). We don't need to book the room until Sept 2022, so I am not worried at all right now. Although, it sounds like I can always buy the 12 points directly from DVC for $19 per point.