2020 Point Charts

[zavandor]

Is it possible to download the POS from the DVC website? I would like to read the SSR one and I haven't the documents I signed when I purchased DVC with me.

 

[zavandor]

I did some googling and couldn't find the full POS, however I found this article on dvcnews related to the 2010 reallocation.

https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-p...ures/news-70636/779-pos-reallocation-language

It quotes from the SSR POS the same paragraphs that Tjkraz quoted at page 12 for VGF, however for SSR the sentences related to the lockoff premium are not included.
I had the idea to check because I read in a post thet the BWV POS doesn't include either.
Do anyone has the full POS and could verify if the lockoff premium is described in a different paragraph from the one quoted in the news?
Thanks!

 

[drusba]

I did some googling and couldn't find the full POS, however I found this article on dvcnews related to the 2010 reallocation.

https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-p...ures/news-70636/779-pos-reallocation-language

It quotes from the SSR POS the same paragraphs that Tjkraz quoted at page 12 for VGF, however for SSR the sentences related to the lockoff premium are not included.
I had the idea to check because I read in a post thet the BWV POS doesn't include either.
Do anyone has the full POS and could verify if the lockoff premium is described in a different paragraph from the one quoted in the news?
Thanks!

I have checked the declarations for SSR and other WDW resorts. VGF stands alone as having that "lock-off premium" language.

 

[zavandor]

I have checked the declarations for all WDW resorts. VGF stands alone as having that "lock-off premium" language.

What are the implications of this?
Could we oppose the increase of the lockoff premium at other resorts?

 

[drusba]

What are the implications of this?
Could we oppose the increase of the lockoff premium at other resorts?

Except for possibly SSR, probably unlikely if they followed what they have done in the past for changes at BWV. BWV has dedicated studios and 1BRs. As to its total points that could be sold, that was determined by applying 2BR points to all lock-offs. The studios and 1BRs combined have higher points than a 2BR but in determining total points to be sold for those they applied those higher numbers only to the dedicated studios and 1BRs. Typically in a reallocation, they have used that same formula. If studios went up for any period, the recognized total increase in points was the total you get by applying the increase only to dedicated studios. You then saw a decrease in the same amount of points elsewhere (usually for studios on different days or 2BRs)

In other words, with BWV they did not create more total points than originally sold via a reallocation (which is the real issue to be determined, not just whether studios and 1BRs are now higher; that lock-offs may be reserved at the higher separate studio and 1BR point cost does not in itself create any issue that the reallocation created more points than originally sold). Other than Poly, which has only studios and bungalows, SSR and VGF stand alone as having no dedicated studios and 1BRs for determining total points in those categories. I am guessing the language in VGF was put there because they realized the usual language could create problems when doing reallocations when there are no dedicated studios and 1BRs, something they likely realized with SSR after it was sold. I do not know whether there is any real issue at either concerning whether total points applicable are now more than total points originally sold but if the issue were to exist it would likely be only at those two resorts if the BWV methodology has been followed for the others.

I have not done the calculations to see if total points stayed approximately the same at BWV with the current change, but just my review of the BWV changes indicates that is likely.

 

[CarolynFH]

Disney has to be careful here. Most people buying are buying to stay in studios, if that isn't cheaper than booking rooms directly, then there is no need to buy DVC.

Buying... yes. But, I am specifically talking about renters. 4 or 5 more points a night at the going rental rate is approximately $80 more per night. That is now giving someone who is thinking about renting pause.

I'd also agree that isn't likely as it negates part of the sales pitch of DVC. I really do not think they worry much about renters. They definitely need to worry about buyers and that they continue to feel there is value in purchasing DVC as some will analyze that vs basking in the pixie dust.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Disney raise the cash rates for DVC villas, so that both renting and buying are still cheaper than booking directly for cash.

 

[mjfox]

I know DVC can change the points around as long as the total stays the same. This said... We purchased our points based on the points charge that was presented to us at the time of purchase and now there is an increase of 14 points for a week stay in a studio at Beach Club. This will make me short points for the year if I stay 2 weeks per year. This doesn't sit well with us!

 

[JETSDAD]

https://dvcnews.com/index.php/other...lidity-of-2020-dvc-points-reallocation-part-1

Shows nice charts for BCV and VGF comparing 2019 and 2020.

 

[skier_pete]

I know DVC can change the points around as long as the total stays the same. This said... We purchased our points based on the points charge that was presented to us at the time of purchase and now there is an increase of 14 points for a week stay in a studio at Beach Club. This will make me short points for the year if I stay 2 weeks per year. This doesn't sit well with us!

Trust me - you aren't the only ones. It pretty much applies to anyone that uses studios (or one bedrooms as well, though the % loss is minimal. We have 235 points across two contracts (BWV 75 pts and AKV 160 pts) By my estimate - the increases which tend to be 1 to 2 pts a day mean a loss of 1-2 days of booking power per year in the studios.

For example, our planned use for the BWV points is in Oct/Nov for F&W - for hopefully 5 nights every year in a Pool/Boardwalk view room - Assume Saturday to Thursday. This went from 76 a year (which puts us 1 point short each year) to 82 a year (6 points short), meaning every three years we have to shorten a trip one day or stay elsewhere. If we can manage to snag a standard view - that number shifts from 54 pts per 5 days to 59 pts - which means we can still make it for those cases - so I may work harder to get a standard room if I can to stretch my points. I certainly won't be upgrading to a 1-bedroom anytime soon. Our AKV pts are harder to call on because we used them at many different resorts - but certainly looks like we lose one day a year roughly

I do want to point out that there is only so much gamesmanship that Disney can do here. Since most resorts have non-lock off studios and 1-bedrooms as well as lock offs, they can only shift the points around so much before they run into problems. (They can't make 1 bedrooms cost as much as a 2-bedroom for instance - this would backfire and get everyone booking 2-bedrooms.) Even resorts with ONLY lock-offs - which I think are just SSR and VGF they have to be careful how far they go before they get a lawsuit on their hands. (I think there's a possibility if this pisses off enough people that you could see a potential lawsuit here - because while what they did is probably strictly legal it's possible they could lose a case based on "bad faith" with their members. It certainly would take someone with a more legal mind than I.

And Hey besides - Moonlight Magic...right? Just give DVC members a free night in the park and all complaints go away. (Oh wait, resale members got that taken from them too.)

 

[drusba]

Is it possible to download the POS from the DVC website? I would like to read the SSR one and I haven't the documents I signed when I purchased DVC with me.

Note, if you still need to find a copy of the SSR Declarations, go here http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/docSearch.jsp, click on "I accept," and then search for the following Doc# 20040270179

 

[zavandor]

Note, if you still need to find a copy of the SSR Declarations, go here http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/docSearch.jsp, click on "I accept," and then search for the following Doc# 20040270179

Thanks a lot!

 

[zavandor]

Can anyone remember if in previous reallocations they ever modified the lockoff premium for any unit? I guess not since even the technical term wasn't used here on the DISboards until Tjkraz quoted the VGF POS.

 

[lehrsj]

My complaint is going to:

Pam Bondi
Office of the Attorney General
The Capital PL-01
Tallahassee FL 32399-1050

It’s quite obvious that the raise in both studio and one bedroom points has nothing to do with balancing demand and all to do with more money in Disney’s pockets. If it’s legal according to the contract is a deceptive practice. We need a new regulation that the combination of the studio and 1 bedroom points can be no more 10% more than the 2 bedroom unit. Otherwise Disney can raise those point for no good reason at all as it is quite obvious that they have.

 

[lehrsj]

My complaint is going to:

Pam Bondi
Office of the Attorney General
The Capital PL-01
Tallahassee FL 32399-1050

It’s quite obvious that the raise in both studio and one bedroom points has nothing to do with balancing demand and all to do with more money in Disney’s pockets. If it’s legal according to the contract is a deceptive practice. We need a new regulation that the combination of the studio and 1 bedroom points can be no more 10% more than the 2 bedroom unit. Otherwise Disney can raise those point for no good reason at all as it is quite obvious that they have.

On 2nd thought 10% is too high. I actually don’t understand why it has to be different at all.

 

[lehrsj]

FL Attorney General web sit with link to complaint form:

Http://myfloridalegal.com

 

[tjkraz]

Can anyone remember if in previous reallocations they ever modified the lockoff premium for any unit? I guess not since even the technical term wasn't used here on the DISboards until Tjkraz quoted the VGF POS.

I looked at Beach Club and Saratoga. Saratoga was complicated by the addition of the Preferred and Standard views.

Beach Club saw some nominal increase (less than 1000 points) in this "lockoff premium" from the 2009 chart (prior to adjusting the weekdays and weekends) to 2019. Saratoga looks like the premium actually went down a bit in the midst of the major chart reshuffling.

Based upon that sample, this may be the first time in the 27 year history of DVC that this figure was reevaluated.

 

[wdrl]

Can anyone remember if in previous reallocations they ever modified the lockoff premium for any unit? I guess not since even the technical term wasn't used here on the DISboards until Tjkraz quoted the VGF POS.

If you are asking whether the Lock Off premium has ever fluctuated due to a previous reallocation, the answer is yes.

In the 2011 reallocation, BCV saw fluctuations in the Lock Off premium according the Season:

Adventure Season: +1.15%
Choice Season: +1.13%
Dream Season: -1.41%
Magic Season: -0.29%
Premier Season: +1.38%

 

[tjkraz]

We need a new regulation that the combination of the studio and 1 bedroom points can be no more 10% more than the 2 bedroom unit. Otherwise Disney can raise those point for no good reason at all as it is quite obvious that they have.

DVC hasn't provided an explanation but that doesn't mean one does not exist.

Administratively, obviously it requires more resources to manage two reservations than one...two parties instead of one. The two rooms would be subject to different average lengths of stay. Housekeeping would have to be dispatched on a different schedule.

I would be curious to hear if the acceleration of the DVC refurb schedule plays any role in this. OKW underwent a major refurbishment in 2011 and the next one wouldn't have been scheduled until at least 2023 (12 years.) Instead it was moved up to 2017, resulting in an 18 month span with 6-8% of the resort closed at all times. The original DVC points charts didn't make accommodation for this frequency of refurbishment. The extra capacity--the ability to remove rooms from service more frequently while still accommodating owners--has to come from somewhere.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

DVC hasn't provided an explanation but that doesn't mean one does not exist.

Administratively, obviously it requires more resources to manage two reservations than one...two parties instead of one. The two rooms would be subject to different average lengths of stay. Housekeeping would have to be dispatched on a different schedule.

I would be curious to hear if the acceleration of the DVC refurb schedule plays any role in this. OKW underwent a major refurbishment in 2011 and the next one wouldn't have been scheduled until at least 2023 (12 years.) Instead it was moved up to 2017, resulting in an 18 month span with 6-8% of the resort closed at all times. The original DVC points charts didn't make accommodation for this frequency of refurbishment. The extra capacity--the ability to remove rooms from service more frequently while still accommodating owners--has to come from somewhere.

If that is the case, I would expect the lock off premium to return to previous levels after the refurb.

 

[lehrsj]

DVC hasn't provided an explanation but that doesn't mean one does not exist.

Administratively, obviously it requires more resources to manage two reservations than one...two parties instead of one. The two rooms would be subject to different average lengths of stay. Housekeeping would have to be dispatched on a different schedule.

I would be curious to hear if the acceleration of the DVC refurb schedule plays any role in this. OKW underwent a major refurbishment in 2011 and the next one wouldn't have been scheduled until at least 2023 (12 years.) Instead it was moved up to 2017, resulting in an 18 month span with 6-8% of the resort closed at all times. The original DVC points charts didn't make accommodation for this frequency of refurbishment. The extra capacity--the ability to remove rooms from service more frequently while still accommodating owners--has to come from somewhere.

I can’t see it would take more time to clean a studio and a 1 bedroom as compared to a two bedroom. As for managing two reservations instead of one I can’t see that being much more of a cost and besides, we pay for that in our yearly dues.

I thought that only 96% of all rooms are sold so some can be taken out of the reservation system to do refurbishments. Does it say in the contract that Disney can require more points per room simply for the purpose of refurbishment?