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13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

Yikes, really?! :scared: My mouth/throat was so sore, I couldn't even think of eating "sharp" food for over a week.

Not that it was a potentially life threatening situation, but when my parents brought me home from having my braces removed, they were advised that the best course of action was soft food for several days - especially the first few days. They got me a bag of corn chips. I gave it a shot and it hurt like crazy. I was 12, knew it was a bad idea, but I ate them anyways.
 
JanaDee said:
In my case, they wanted my throat to scab up before I started eating solid foods (more protection for the surgical site). That doesn't happen in an hour. Mine took a few days.

They gave my daughter fish fingers and chips for lunch (she had an early morning op) and I'd have excepted the same as you! But she certainly ate toast not that long after, and the consultant ordered the nurses to give her more when she refused the chips.


Crumbs, its seems pretty bad when i read other people didn't eat! I wonder if it makes a difference to the way she was operated on - heat sealed rather than stitches? Anyone know any more details on what the surgeon used to seal Jahi??
 
I didn't say that exactly. They do want you to eat though, (of course not before you feel you are ready, but my daughter requested it about an hour after surgery and they let her have it). We don't give popsicles, patients are given a throat spray to numb the throat before eating and you are given toast as you more than like haven eaten for at least 12 hours, in some cases more :-/

I'm very surprised by that. I would think eating something as harsh as toast would do damage to the surgical site.
 
RainbowBrite said:
I'm very surprised by that. I would think eating something as harsh as toast would do damage to the surgical site.

She definitely ate toast. 3 rounds at first, and another three for lunch. And then the consultant checked her in the evening and yes, another three rounds of toast. Its all in her notes.
 


She definitely ate toast. 3 rounds at first, and another three for lunch. And then the consultant checked her in the evening and yes, another three rounds of toast. Its all in her notes.

I wasn't suggesting I don't believe you, it's just surprising to me. When I have so much as a sore throat I certainly can't eat toast.
 
RainbowBrite said:
I wasn't suggesting I don't believe you, it's just surprising to me. When I have so much as a sore throat I certainly can't eat toast.

That's ok, neither can I! I don't even like toast ;)
 
<snip>

If Jahi was in picu woofing down a hamburger and a popsicle, where was the hospital staff? Wasn't anyone checking on her. This would have been right after she got there. After surgery it would've taken her a little time to eat those things. Didn't anyone notice?

You can't have it both ways. It can't be that she received proper care after and was able to eat these things without anyone noticing.


From what I read she didn't woof down a burger. The family gave her a piece of one. It would be a very easy thing for them to do without a nurse knowing about it. It's not like someone is in the room right with her watching their every move.
Regardless, I certainly hope it wasn't something as stupid as that. Sometimes things just happen. :guilty:
 


A popsicle is the only thing that has been actually reported that she ate.

The fact that people are running with this hamburger thing at this point is ridiculous. It came from the comments section of an article. There's nothing to say its true but people keep throwing it out there like it happened.

If Jahi was in picu woofing down a hamburger and a popsicle, where was the hospital staff? Wasn't anyone checking on her. This would have been right after she got there. After surgery it would've taken her a little time to eat those things. Didn't anyone notice?

You can't have it both ways. It can't be that she received proper care after and was able to eat these things without anyone noticing.

To be clear, I'm not saying the hospital definitely did anything wrong. It just seems silly to dismiss the idea that they could have while tossing out wild speculation on how her death was caused by something her family did.

All it would have taken was one quick bite. I don't know how their nursing staff is set up, but the nurse probably had at least one other patient to look after.
 
From what I read she didn't woof down a burger. The family gave her a piece of one. It would be a very easy thing for them to do without a nurse knowing about it. It's not like someone is in the room right with her watching their every move.
Regardless, I certainly hope it wasn't something as stupid as that. Sometimes things just happen. :guilty:

Someone who may or may not have been at the hospital that day, on a comment on an internet site reports that they saw what looked like a family member offering her a bite. Not a lot to go on, and lots of possibilities from the family having permission, to Jahi refusing the bite, to someone who is confused about what they saw, to an outright lie by someone seeking attention in an anonymous forum.

It's PICU. There should be someone in the room at all times.
 
Someone does NOT have to be in the room at all times in an ICU setting, necessarily.

And family sneaking food to a patient does NOT presuppose bad nursing care necessarily, either.
 
Someone who may or may not have been at the hospital that day, on a comment on an internet site reports that they saw what looked like a family member offering her a bite. Not a lot to go on, and lots of possibilities from the family having permission, to Jahi refusing the bite, to someone who is confused about what they saw, to an outright lie by someone seeking attention in an anonymous forum.

It's PICU. There should be someone in the room at all times.


Had there been a proper autopsy immediately following death I guess we'd know for sure.
 
There may be other evidence as to what happened in the PICU. Remember, the court docs are sealed, and I am certain there is information in those documents that the family does not want shared.
 
Someone does NOT have to be in the room at all times in an ICU setting, necessarily.

And family sneaking food to a patient does NOT presuppose bad nursing care necessarily, either.

Aren't there cameras that monitor those rooms?

Had there been a proper autopsy immediately following death I guess we'd know for sure.

I agree! It goes both ways. If this family did something to cause her death or the hospital was negligent, it will be almost impossible to prove because they didn't get an autopsy done ASAP. :headache:
 
I've spent some time in hospitals over the years...regular rooms, ICUs, recovery rooms, and operating rooms (before surgery and after) with elderly parents and all my kids at one time or another, and I've yet to see a situation where a nurse or other medical professional is in the room 24/7 observing the patient. I think it's extremely POSSIBLE for the scenario with the hamburger...giving her a piece...to occur, with no blame on the hospital and its staff for not knowing or preventing it. And from there...IF it did happen, and she choked, then the action of choking alone could lead to excessive bleeding.

All we're really hearing is the family's version of events. The hospital has been prevented from saying anything. If the above scenario, or if something similar, occurred, I would imagine that it might be difficult to prove at autopsy at this late date. Their scenario of just being given a bucket or whatever and no one responding sounds suspect.

The family has been shown to not use good judgement, IMHO, so nothing would surprise me. Perhaps the hospital IS to blame on some level. We just don't know now. The situation long ago moved from what actually happened to cause her to be brain dead, to moving a dead body, sustaining a dead body, decomposition, etc. After she's finally buried, the family and hospital and lawyers will return to what caused her to die in the first place.
 
If Jahi was in picu woofing down a hamburger and a popsicle, where was the hospital staff? Wasn't anyone checking on her. This would have been right after she got there. After surgery it would've taken her a little time to eat those things. Didn't anyone notice?

The same place the hamburger comment came from it was said that the nurses were trying to get the family out of the room. ( around 16 )

To be clear, I'm not saying the hospital definitely did anything wrong. It just seems silly to dismiss the idea that they could have while tossing out wild speculation on how her death was caused by something her family did.

Nobody has dismissed the idea that the hospital did someone wrong.
 
From what I read she didn't woof down a burger. The family gave her a piece of one. It would be a very easy thing for them to do without a nurse knowing about it. It's not like someone is in the room right with her watching their every move.
Regardless, I certainly hope it wasn't something as stupid as that. Sometimes things just happen. :guilty:

And where exactly did you read that? Oh right, it was either in an anonymous comment or from comments on a message board.

First everyone was talking about how she ate a burger, not a piece of a burger. It was they gave her a burger. Now it's, she ate a piece of a burger or maybe it's that she was offered a piece of a burger.


There are all kinds of comments on articles about how the family did this or that. People keep making them out to be fact without realizing that they can't all be true. Even if some of them are true, where was the staff while these things were going on?
 
And where exactly did you read that? Oh right, it was either in an anonymous comment or from comments on a message board. First everyone was talking about how she ate a burger, not a piece of a burger. It was they gave her a burger. Now it's, she ate a piece of a burger or maybe it's that she was offered a piece of a burger. There are all kinds of comments on articles about how the family did this or that. People keep making them out to be fact without realizing that they can't all be true. Even if some of them are true, where was the staff while these things were going on?
That's the point that people are TRYING to make, repeatedly. It's VERY possible for family members to do something. Where's the staff? Um, maybe WORKING? Nurses and medical staff aren't guards, who are there keeping their eyes on ONE patient, constantly, 24/7. The point people are trying to make is that something like the SCENARIO (fact, fiction or rumor) of a family member giving food to a patient who isn't supposed to have any IS POSSIBLE, and it doesn't mean that the staff is negligent if they didn't see it happen.
 
Aren't there cameras that monitor those rooms?
Not in the pediatric ICU's, either med/surg or cardio, I've been in. Heck, even in ones with private rooms, there are no cameras. There are big, sliding glass doors with curtains you can pull across for privacy. Heck, I think the only place I've seen cameras in the children's hospital I'm most familiar with is points of entrance/exit for the floor and the hospital itself (so at the public and staff entrance, the elevators and the fire exits).

From some Googling, it looks like the ICU at CHO is an older, ward-style layout with curtains to separate beds and some semi-private rooms rather than a full private room layout. But if the patient is relatively stable, then families are often allowed to pull the curtains closed for extra privacy. After all, if things start going south, a bevy of monitors will start wailing immediately to alert the nursing staff.

The ratio of nurses to patients at the PICU and CVICU I'm most familiar with is 1 nurse to 2 patients. There may be 1 nurse to 1 patient in a case where the patient is extremely unstable. But even in a 1:1 situation, there are times a nurse might have stepped out of the room for a variety of reasons, especially if family is present. Of course, if the patient is actively unstable, this won't happen. But many ICU patients are stable (or their version of it) for long stretches at a time.

And FWIW, I spend most of my time on a non-ICU floor but one that always has a handful of NPOs (nothing by mouth), and you'd be amazed at how really well-meaning parents will ignore that direction when their child is hungry. I don't know if that is what happened in this case, but it's certainly not something that would surprise me given how often I've seen it happen.
 

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