100 pt Direct Blue Card Minimum September 17,2019

[What_13th_floor?]

Do you think DVC is worth it for an every-other-year trip? Dealing with booking far in advance, annual maintenance fees, etc.? How much FOMO are you talking about anyway if you're only going every other year? These are just questions to ask yourself; not meant as an interrogation!



Ah, but what if you stagger an annual trip by a week so you can get 2 trips with one AP? Could be cheaper, and you get the pictures.

The plot thickens...

this is our plan exactly. Gold pass at $699 vs $1,000 for 2x 10 day single park tickets

More info=We are at the point where we do not want to stay at value resorts every other year and we do not have any desire to pay moderate prices for the accommodations offered. We would much rather get in to Deluxe on the cheap (120 points gets us a week at CCV or BLT which would be a significant upgrade for us) and considering we have vacationed everyother year for over 10 years DVC should be for us. I don't want to rent points because I have the money to afford this and would rather have my owe points. We fully intend to take on more points (125-150 being the goal).

I've tried to look thru all the benefits and there are so many variables for each that it barely makes the same kind of sense year to year.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I need help getting off this seesaw I’m on. I can’t decide if taking the leap for direct is worth it. I’m not looking for someone to tell me what to but rather what you would do.

I’ve seen sales on fidelity that would put the cost of CCV at $162/pt which means a $4570 premium to go direct. I really wanted to dip my toes with a resale to start but with this minimum increase I’m getting FOMO bad. If I end up going direct I’m going to go from looking to afford 125 points to only being able to afford 75.

We won’t be going every year at that point so the immediate benefit of AP’s won’t matter (nor would they matter anyway cause even IF we went every year we wouldn’t need enough tickets to make it worth it).

I can’t help but feel that holding $4500 (at the likely very least) and being able to get to our desired point total is more important than any of the member benefits (save the ability to book future resorts with my direct points which is what I’m really hung up on).

How often do you plan to go? 75 points to have benefits vs 125 points to not is quite a difference. Unless you supplement more cash stays or renting points that 75 points as you say isn't going to get you a long annual visit that an AP would be worthwhile. 125 points is enough for a studio for an annual trip, depending on the dates, and if those dates are holidays then the Gold AP wouldn't apply so again, probably cheaper to purchase tickets vs a Platinum pass for a holiday trip.

Just saw your post about trips every other year being the norm for you. I'd heavily lean towards a lower price per point and getting the points for the length of stay you want to do. ie - resale Especially since it's CCV and there's a pretty significant difference in price per point for direct vs resale.

Hitting the member events really is pure chance. One year we had a couple of trips that lined up. This past year zero. Having done a few of those I'd tend towards saving the money and booking something else for extra hours anyway. If they line up and you can get a reservation they are nice but there's so many if's with them that I don't think you can use them as justification for direct unless your local and can get over to them easily anytime they are scheduled.

10% discount on merchandise and some dining? That may be $5-10 off per purchase or maybe less. So after 500-1000 purchases you could make up the difference of direct.

 

[What_13th_floor?]

How often do you plan to go? 75 points to have benefits vs 125 points to not is quite a difference. Unless you supplement more cash stays or renting points that 75 points as you say isn't going to get you a long annual visit that an AP would be worthwhile. 125 points is enough for a studio for an annual trip, depending on the dates, and if those dates are holidays then the Gold AP wouldn't apply so again, probably cheaper to purchase tickets vs a Platinum pass for a holiday trip.

Just saw your post about trips every other year being the norm for you. I'd heavily lean towards a lower price per point and getting the points for the length of stay you want to do. ie - resale Especially since it's CCV and there's a pretty significant difference in price per point for direct vs resale.

Hitting the member events really is pure chance. One year we had a couple of trips that lined up. This past year zero. Having done a few of those I'd tend towards saving the money and booking something else for extra hours anyway. If they line up and you can get a reservation they are nice but there's so many if's with them that I don't think you can use them as justification for direct unless your local and can get over to them easily anytime they are scheduled.

10% discount on merchandise and some dining? That may be $5-10 off per purchase or maybe less. So after 500-1000 purchases you could make up the difference of direct.

A good friend is a member and I am seeking his counsel also. He brought up the member days and said they usually coincide with when we usually go in late August. He also brought up hard ticket discounts too. As others have said, basing a decision to buy direct based on member benefits is not the way to go which I fully agree with. However while they can take benefits away, what if the demand levels out and they decide to bring back more significant perks if sales decline or become stagnant? I know hoping for future benefits is the same as banking on current ones but what the hey...

 

[Yinn]

I need help getting off this seesaw I’m on. I can’t decide if taking the leap for direct is worth it. I’m not looking for someone to tell me what to but rather what you would do.

I made the leap, and I made the leap while buying a resale contract as well; talk about early onset add-on-itus. So that's what I would do. Here's my rationale, which may or may not work for you.

I bought a 75 point direct AKL. Total cost was $13,800. The premium chart I posted is a helpful guide, but throw that out the window for this specific rationale. Do I plan on staying at AKL? Yes, but AKL is easy to book so there's no true 11-mo advantage. My resale points will also be much cheaper (if it passes) so I plan on using my cheap resale points for all of my vacations; which will come in at a much cheaper $7.20/ppt (all ppt is time adjusted values) vs the $10.89/ppt of AKL Direct.

To eliminate any concerns about time, this will assume that I keep it the entire term. As I would want the membership benefit as long as possible. So how do I break even? Easy, if AKL Direct is $10.89/ppt; I just need to commit to renting out my AKL Direct Points all the time. Renting out points fetches $14.50/ppt through a broker; $15-$16 direct on this site. As long as I do that year in and year out, my membership is self-funded. AKL happens to be the most popular rental location; which helps with this strategy.

But let's assume you don't like my time adjusted values, and let's assume I won't be disciplined enough to consistently rent it out year after year. Well, I planned for that too. I can promise I'll follow it for at least one year right? So I'll do that. But let's also assume you want to ask about about my $13,800 and opportunity cost. Good question!

I'm going to list my 75 points immediately. The contract came with 2019 points, 75*$14.50=$1087.50 and will have an additional 75 points within the next couple of months. So before my first round of annual dues, I would already be covering $2,175 ('19/75+'18/75 * $14.50 rental) of it. Since we're factoring opportunity cost...well, I paid for it with a credit card. 0% financing for 1 year. $400 cash back when spending $1000. Plus 1.5% cash back on all purchases. That means come January, I will have $2,782 (rental+credit card rewards & promos) in my pocket that I didn't have before and I haven't paid a thing. Thrown in a CD, by the time that amount is actually due, it would be worth nearly $3000 in a CD - but let's go crazy. Let's take that $2,782 and open a new checking account with a bank of your choice. A lot of which offers $200-400 cash upon depositing a certain amount. The requirement is to hold the account open for 6 mo typically. At the end of 6 mo, I close the account and apply the amount of $3182 to my credit card bill. The amount due of my money at this point? $10,618. Let's pull the closing costs back out of it and make it an even $10,000. That now comes to $133.33/pt - or 75% of the Direct asking price.

That doesn't seem so bad anymore, and quite comparable to the resale market for a small contract. I evaluated it about a dozen ways and it made sense in most of them, so I took the leap.

 

[SL6827]

The minute I bought enough direct points, would be when Disney would do away with the more attractive perks of it. That would be my luck, lol.

 

[ScubaCat]

The minute I bought enough direct points, would be when Disney would do away with the more attractive perks of it. That would be my luck, lol.

Yep. I can't think of any situation where someone would tell me "if you just pay a $3500 premium, there are some benefits you can enjoy that may or may not be taken away at any time" and I'd go for it. But everyone is different!

 

[What_13th_floor?]

I made the leap, and I made the leap while buying a resale contract as well; talk about early onset add-on-itus. So that's what I would do. Here's my rationale, which may or may not work for you.

I bought a 75 point direct AKL. Total cost was $13,800. The premium chart I posted is a helpful guide, but throw that out the window for this specific rationale. Do I plan on staying at AKL? Yes, but AKL is easy to book so there's no true 11-mo advantage. My resale points will also be much cheaper (if it passes) so I plan on using my cheap resale points for all of my vacations; which will come in at a much cheaper $7.20/ppt (all ppt is time adjusted values) vs the $10.89/ppt of AKL Direct.

To eliminate any concerns about time, this will assume that I keep it the entire term. As I would want the membership benefit as long as possible. So how do I break even? Easy, if AKL Direct is $10.89/ppt; I just need to commit to renting out my AKL Direct Points all the time. Renting out points fetches $14.50/ppt through a broker; $15-$16 direct on this site. As long as I do that year in and year out, my membership is self-funded. AKL happens to be the most popular rental location; which helps with this strategy.

But let's assume you don't like my time adjusted values, and let's assume I won't be disciplined enough to consistently rent it out year after year. Well, I planned for that too. I can promise I'll follow it for at least one year right? So I'll do that. But let's also assume you want to ask about about my $13,800 and opportunity cost. Good question!

I'm going to list my 75 points immediately. The contract came with 2019 points, 75*$14.50=$1087.50 and will have an additional 75 points within the next couple of months. So before my first round of annual dues, I would already be covering $2,175 ('19/75+'18/75 * $14.50 rental) of it. Since we're factoring opportunity cost...well, I paid for it with a credit card. 0% financing for 1 year. $400 cash back when spending $1000. Plus 1.5% cash back on all purchases. That means come January, I will have $2,782 (rental+credit card rewards & promos) in my pocket that I didn't have before and I haven't paid a thing. Thrown in a CD, by the time that amount is actually due, it would be worth nearly $3000 in a CD - but let's go crazy. Let's take that $2,782 and open a new checking account with a bank of your choice. A lot of which offers $200-400 cash upon depositing a certain amount. The requirement is to hold the account open for 6 mo typically. At the end of 6 mo, I close the account and apply the amount of $3182 to my credit card bill. The amount due of my money at this point? $10,618. Let's pull the closing costs back out of it and make it an even $10,000. That now comes to $133.33/pt - or 75% of the Direct asking price.

That doesn't seem so bad anymore, and quite comparable to the resale market for a small contract. I evaluated it about a dozen ways and it made sense in most of them, so I took the leap.

That is on a whole other level but something I assume many here do. It makes sense to at least defer some of the premium if only until you break even. I don''t know if I could afford enough resale after buying direct to make a worthy vacation right now though.

The minute I bought enough direct points, would be when Disney would do away with the more attractive perks of it. That would be my luck, lol.

I said this to my wife last night, that as soon as we join they would announce the next day that the Imagination Lounge was closing. I would storm the castle.

Yep. I can't think of any situation where someone would tell me "if you just pay a $3500 premium, there are some benefits you can enjoy that may or may not be taken away at any time" and I'd go for it. But everyone is different!

That is part of the hangup. I guess everyone being different means that if I value money and saving money makes me feel good thats the way to go. However if selling points is easy enough then YINN's plan would pay off that premium in just a few years.

Does anyone see that as being unsound?

 

[Yinn]

That is on a whole other level but something I assume many here do. It makes sense to at least defer some of the premium if only until you break even. I don''t know if I could afford enough resale after buying direct to make a worthy vacation right now though.


I said this to my wife last night, that as soon as we join they would announce the next day that the Imagination Lounge was closing. I would storm the castle.



That is part of the hangup. I guess everyone being different means that if I value money and saving money makes me feel good thats the way to go. However if selling points is easy enough then YINN's plan would pay off that premium in just a few years.

Does anyone see that as being unsound?

I’m in the same boat. I have never stayed even in a moderate resort, so this was a big purchase for me.

You might just have to keep deferring the resale purchase. The direct purchase eliminates the cost benefits vs a value resort. I ran point cost and room point cost to see how I would fair. Basically if I can get $7-8ppt on resale then I can actually save money using DVC. If I used my direct points, I’d be spending significantly more unless I rent it out for the first 3 years.

 

[What_13th_floor?]

I’m in the same boat. I have never stayed even in a moderate resort, so this was a big purchase for me.

You might just have to keep deferring the resale purchase. The direct purchase eliminates the cost benefits vs a value resort. I ran point cost and room point cost to see how I would fair. Basically if I can get $7-8ppt on resale then I can actually save money using DVC. If I used my direct points, I’d be spending significantly more unless I rent it out for the first 3 years.
[/

I’m in the same boat. I have never stayed even in a moderate resort, so this was a big purchase for me.

You might just have to keep deferring the resale purchase. The direct purchase eliminates the cost benefits vs a value resort. I ran point cost and room point cost to see how I would fair. Basically if I can get $7-8ppt on resale then I can actually save money using DVC. If I used my direct points, I’d be spending significantly more unless I rent it out for the first 3 years.

I feel like you would still be able to come out ahead of values and moderates right? By my Goofy math if I used 120 points next year after banking 45 and rented out the others I’m not using It should cost me only $486 above staying at ASMOVIE and $871 less then staying at POFQ. I’ll take that. (Assuming cost pp $11.80 lifetime not factoring inflation, yadda yadda yadda)

 

[Yinn]

I feel like you would still be able to come out ahead of values and moderates right? By my Goofy math if I used 120 points next year after banking 45 and rented out the others I’m not using It should cost me only $486 above staying at ASMOVIE and $871 less then staying at POFQ. I’ll take that. (Assuming cost pp $11.80 lifetime not factoring inflation, yadda yadda yadda)

As long as you’re renting out you should be fine. If you went direct just for use, it wouldn’t make sense.

Using your numbers, $11.80 x 120 = $1,416. This past year, I stayed at Pop for roughly $120/night. AoA was about $275/night. So based on that as long as your 120 points covers more than 5 nights then your statement would be correct.

 

[skier_pete]

People keep pointing out that member benefits could go away anytime, but I have to say that they are unlikely to shrink them too much since the difference is their big selling point. The biggest risk to disappear in my mind are the Moonlight Magic nights.

 

[Yinn]

People keep pointing out that member benefits could go away anytime, but I have to say that they are unlikely to shrink them too much since the difference is their big selling point. The biggest risk to disappear in my mind are the Moonlight Magic nights.

They could, but also keep in mind the closing documents state that while it can go away, the benefits are to be kept for 3 years at least. So if you can break even in those 3 years, there’s minimal risk

 

[Bing Showei]

They could, but also keep in mind the closing documents state that while it can go away, the benefits are to be kept for 3 years at least. So if you can break even in those 3 years, there’s minimal risk

I think you're misreading that. The POS and check-sheet clearly state that perks can go away at any point, any language which suggests otherwise would be negated. There is zero guarantee of anything beyond your home resort will remain standing and you will get at least a 30 day booking advantage for the life of your RTU. Full stop.

People keep pointing out that member benefits could go away anytime, but I have to say that they are unlikely to shrink them too much since the difference is their big selling point. The biggest risk to disappear in my mind are the Moonlight Magic nights.

Given what they did with the point charts just 8 months ago and how Disney has fundamentally changed the flexibility of their product, you can understand why people are losing faith in using what Disney has done historically as a gauge for how they will move forward with their timeshare.

 

[skip-seglipse]

I made the leap, and I made the leap while buying a resale contract as well; talk about early onset add-on-itus. So that's what I would do. Here's my rationale, which may or may not work for you.

I bought a 75 point direct AKL. Total cost was $13,800. The premium chart I posted is a helpful guide, but throw that out the window for this specific rationale. Do I plan on staying at AKL? Yes, but AKL is easy to book so there's no true 11-mo advantage. My resale points will also be much cheaper (if it passes) so I plan on using my cheap resale points for all of my vacations; which will come in at a much cheaper $7.20/ppt (all ppt is time adjusted values) vs the $10.89/ppt of AKL Direct.

To eliminate any concerns about time, this will assume that I keep it the entire term. As I would want the membership benefit as long as possible. So how do I break even? Easy, if AKL Direct is $10.89/ppt; I just need to commit to renting out my AKL Direct Points all the time. Renting out points fetches $14.50/ppt through a broker; $15-$16 direct on this site. As long as I do that year in and year out, my membership is self-funded. AKL happens to be the most popular rental location; which helps with this strategy.

But let's assume you don't like my time adjusted values, and let's assume I won't be disciplined enough to consistently rent it out year after year. Well, I planned for that too. I can promise I'll follow it for at least one year right? So I'll do that. But let's also assume you want to ask about about my $13,800 and opportunity cost. Good question!

I'm going to list my 75 points immediately. The contract came with 2019 points, 75*$14.50=$1087.50 and will have an additional 75 points within the next couple of months. So before my first round of annual dues, I would already be covering $2,175 ('19/75+'18/75 * $14.50 rental) of it. Since we're factoring opportunity cost...well, I paid for it with a credit card. 0% financing for 1 year. $400 cash back when spending $1000. Plus 1.5% cash back on all purchases. That means come January, I will have $2,782 (rental+credit card rewards & promos) in my pocket that I didn't have before and I haven't paid a thing. Thrown in a CD, by the time that amount is actually due, it would be worth nearly $3000 in a CD - but let's go crazy. Let's take that $2,782 and open a new checking account with a bank of your choice. A lot of which offers $200-400 cash upon depositing a certain amount. The requirement is to hold the account open for 6 mo typically. At the end of 6 mo, I close the account and apply the amount of $3182 to my credit card bill. The amount due of my money at this point? $10,618. Let's pull the closing costs back out of it and make it an even $10,000. That now comes to $133.33/pt - or 75% of the Direct asking price.

That doesn't seem so bad anymore, and quite comparable to the resale market for a small contract. I evaluated it about a dozen ways and it made sense in most of them, so I took the leap.

It doesn't look like you figured income tax on your rental income into your math.

 

[DisMomof2Princesses]

How do you know a DVC salesperson is lying?

Their mouth is moving.

The two options here is that the guide is breaking info embargo, or is lying to try to get the sale now. Because this hasn't been whispered about from any other source.

NOT true! I read an article about this last week...

 

[ScubaCat]

They could, but also keep in mind the closing documents state that while it can go away, the benefits are to be kept for 3 years at least. So if you can break even in those 3 years, there’s minimal risk

Not really true:

"These benefits are available for your use a period of 3 years or less".

And what are "these benefits"? Well, the big one is the AP discount:

"Members may purchase select WALT DISNEY WORLD® Annual Passes (“WDW Passes”) and Disneyland Annual Passports (“DL Passes”), at a discount off the regular prices"

For DL, you get a whopping $20 off a $1400 AP. That's "a discount", right?

That's simply a required block of text required by Florida law. That's why it's there. The benefits in the disclosure are worded in such a way that they could reduce them to nothing significant if they wanted to.

Now, with all this said, I seriously doubt they'll go away. The cost to provide them is very, very small compared to the sales they're getting by promoting them. It's just something to keep in mind before investing a few grand to qualify for them. Even the merch discount was 10% until just a couple of years ago. 20% makes a difference, but will it stay 20%? Who knows.

 

[Yinn]

It doesn't look like you figured income tax on your rental income into your math.

Didn't feel like revealing my income tax bracket. But since you brought it up, assuming I'm in the highest tax bracket (post expiration of the Trump reductions since we're looking long term) of 39.6, we'll round to 40% income tax.

On the first number, $7.44/ppt of annual dues can be deducted as expenses. Which means $7.06 of profit without getting too complicated resulting in a federal tax bill of $2.82/ppt. Let's also include state and assume we all live in California with a state income tax of 13.3%, that's an additional $0.94/ppt. For simplicity sake, let's say the SALT limit is kicked in so none of that is deductible. That's a total of $3.76/ppt in taxes.

So if, you're making $500,000 then I hate to break it to you. You may not want to buy 75 points direct to get the membership benefit. Because you would be left with $10.74/ppt in profit through a broker while paying $10.89/ppt because you'd lose $11.25/year on those 75 points. If one does not fit those criteria's exactly, then breakeven is still achievable.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I need help getting off this seesaw I’m on. I can’t decide if taking the leap for direct is worth it. I’m not looking for someone to tell me what to but rather what you would do.

I’ve seen sales on fidelity that would put the cost of CCV at $162/pt which means a $4570 premium to go direct. I really wanted to dip my toes with a resale to start but with this minimum increase I’m getting FOMO bad. If I end up going direct I’m going to go from looking to afford 125 points to only being able to afford 75.

We won’t be going every year at that point so the immediate benefit of AP’s won’t matter (nor would they matter anyway cause even IF we went every year we wouldn’t need enough tickets to make it worth it).

I can’t help but feel that holding $4500 (at the likely very least) and being able to get to our desired point total is more important than any of the member benefits (save the ability to book future resorts with my direct points which is what I’m really hung up on).

Absolutely resale. The only motivation for direct is if you will get APs. And even then, how often really? And how soon? You would want to recover that cost fairly quickly (next few years) because... will they take that benefit away or make it less valuable? Probably at some point. Moonlight Madness? How likely are you actually to be there when this is scheduled? And will you even be able to get tickets? More and more members= less chance of getting tickets. And what if it is rained out? Or what if you are just exhausted or not feeling great that night and decide to skip it? And will that blue card “benefit” fizzle out too? If it is a question of getting less points in order to go direct, there is just no contest. MORE POINTS! Plus, if you are dying for the blue card, you can always get it down the line.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Didn't feel like revealing my income tax bracket. But since you brought it up, assuming I'm in the highest tax bracket (post expiration of the Trump reductions since we're looking long term) of 39.6, we'll round to 40% income tax.

On the first number, $7.44/ppt of annual dues can be deducted as expenses. Which means $7.06 of profit without getting too complicated resulting in a federal tax bill of $2.82/ppt. Let's also include state and assume we all live in California with a state income tax of 13.3%, that's an additional $0.94/ppt. For simplicity sake, let's say the SALT limit is kicked in so none of that is deductible. That's a total of $3.76/ppt in taxes.

So if, you're making $500,000 then I hate to break it to you. You may not want to buy 75 points direct to get the membership benefit. Because you would be left with $10.74/ppt in profit through a broker while paying $10.89/ppt because you'd lose $11.25/year on those 75 points. If one does not fit those criteria's exactly, then breakeven is still achievable.

I think you could be one bracket down and it still would not make sense. Plus, tax laws change all the time, which is why had we known about the SALT recall, we would not be in our current home with our property taxes alone already maxing our the new deduction level. . Plus, what a pain in the __ to worry about renting (I even question whether this is 100% legal) and filing taxes on it. Suddenly your vacation property is a massive chore. If I wanted to worry about renting and the rental market and taxes I would just go buy a beach house which will appreciate much more than any crummy (sorry Disney) timeshare.

 

[dropd]

If you're really interested, push for AKV. I know AKV with Oct was available yesterday evening. My guide was trying to push me for more points, and then for an October UY - which I didn't want. Poly as well but that's $235. Your guide might say it's "waitlist only" but push through it. I was "waitlisted" as well and I held on the phone for a literal 5 minutes before I was given the contract. (If someone got ROFR'd, I'm sorry!!)

So, I tried your approach with my guide and he wasn't having it at all. I asked for waitlist for October UY for SSR and AKV. He quickly said "the waitlist is really long right now but I'll put you on it". I pushed a bit and said that an acquaintance's guide had called the other department to check availability - and that I was willing to hold for a few minutes. My guide immediately replied that he had "already checked earlier today for another customer" and refused to check again.

I sort of got the sense he wasn't going to do anything at all, to be honest, and seemed content to not really try to get me what I'm looking for, which is weird. I'm not going to buy 100 points, and I'm not going to buy 75 after the 16th, so why wouldn't he try hard to make the sale?