“Renting” depends on what side of the transaction you are on.

[DVC Grandpa]

First I want to say that I agree that there has to be rules on the business of renting out points, but then I have to say I have rented points, enough to complete a night’s stay. Once it was 3 point and another time it was 6 and yet another time it was 24 points. Each time it was too add to my points that would have otherwise been “lost” or it just gave us that additional day. I know that there are others that need points to do the same thing. I am asking, where are we going to find these few points if the ‘renters’ can only rent once each UY? Would you rent only a few points from your larger balance?

 

[Doctor P]

The restriction is on transfers not renting. In fact, there is to be no money that changes hands in a transfer transaction according to the POS. Of course, that is not the way things seem to work in reality.

 

[JimMIA]

The restriction is on transfers not renting. In fact, there is to be no money that changes hands in a transfer transaction according to the POS. Of course, that is not the way things seem to work in reality.

Actually OP probably is talking about the points being transferred into his account. If he is, the new rule will apply. I think there are really two issues for OP.

1. Will MS really enforce the transfer rule for little-bitty transfers like he discusses?
2. And - perhaps more important - will he be able to find another member who will use their one transfer for such a small transaction?

 

[Doctor P]

Actually OP probably is talking about the points being transferred into his account. If he is, the new rule will apply. I think there are really two issues for OP.

1. Will MS really enforce the transfer rule for little-bitty transfers like he discusses?
2. And - perhaps more important - will he be able to find another member who will use their one transfer for such a small transaction?

I agree on all points, Jim. I'm just trying to continue to note that the restriction is not on renting, per se.

 

[drusba]

What the rules mean:

1. You can rent by simply agreeing to make a reservation in someone else's name. That is not a "transfer" of points as defined by the official documents. Thus, as long as someone rents from you at least one actual total night stay and you make the ressie in their name, you can still rent without a transfer.

2. Points are deemed to have no monetary value in the official documents; it is instead your actual real estate interest that has a value; points are designated as symbols that represent that interest for the purpose of making reservations. The rules thus prohibit transfering points for monetary value. However, that does not prevent one from renting his interest for value and then requiring a transfer of points to complete that rental; it is simply a matter of how you phrase the rental agreement.

3. DVC's going back to the one transfer per year rule (which actually was the rule until a few years ago) does provide somewhat of a barrier to rentals because now you cannot so easily just get a few points to add to your own so you can make your own ressie. However, it will not eliminate rentals.

4. The official documents prohibit one from engaging in a "pattern" of rental activity for profit. That is a purposefully chosen vague term. Its main purpose is actually to protect DVC companies and management. Under Florida law, someone who engages in the business of renting resort property is required to collect and pay the applicable room sales taxes (the usual 12% or so that Disney charges regular guests). That law is also somewhat vague but basically if you own a vacation place that you actually use and then rent it out once a while to defer costs, make a little money, etc., you are not deemed to be in the business of renting resort property and thus are not responsible for the tax. However, if your principal purpose for owning is to rent the property then you can be deemed to be covered by the law. The DVC pattern rule is one that protects DVC, which manages the properties and basically controls membership rules. They know that a member who does engage in the business of renting is not likely going to charge and collect the required taxes. With the pattern rule, DVC cannot be accused of approving activities that amount to tax evasion because it can assert it officially prohibits a member from engaging in the business of renting his DVC interest.

5. With the latest announcement, DVC may actually be intending to start taking steps to prevent those who just rent from doing so, OR it could just be a reiteration of policy that protects itself and acts as a little scare tactic with the hope that the reversion to the one transfer rule will actually have an impact. In any event, the owner who uses his points but rents once in a while when he cannot use some or to help defray dues is not the target of DVC's rule.

 

[DVC Grandpa]

In simple terms, can I get a small number of points transferred into my account from another member, so that I could add those points to my balance and use them towards a reservation?
The other problem is finding someone who would be willing to transfer points in a small quantity if it is the only transfer they can make in the UY.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Right now, as it stands, I would not be willing to transfer 3 points to a member so that they could finish a ressie, because that would leave me in a bind if I needed to transfer again in my UY.

What I would be willing to do, is in the last 45 days of my UY, transfer points to another member that needed them, because then I would know that I wouldnt need to use my 1 transfer for anything personal.

Maybe this is something we could do to help those that need transfers for personal use. If you dont use your 1 per year, offer to help out another member at the end of your UY. I understand that UY comes into play and we dont want to fall into the point morphing for profit transfers, but I think we could bypass both those issues and genuinely help each other out.

 

[JimMIA]

In simple terms, can I get a small number of points transferred into my account from another member, so that I could add those points to my balance and use them towards a reservation?

Yes, you can still do that.

The other problem is finding someone who would be willing to transfer points in a small quantity if it is the only transfer they can make in the UY.

Aye, there's the rub!

An option would be to make the ressie you have points for, and then have another owner make another ressie for you and link the two. That would not involve a transfer.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Yes, you can still do that.
Aye, there's the rub!

An option would be to make the ressie you have points for, and then have another owner make another ressie for you and link the two. That would not involve a transfer.

Yes,
But if the OP has 5 points and needs 3 more to complete his studio 1 night ressie, he will lose those 5 points without a transfer. He will be forced to obtain the entire 8 points from another member so that member can make his 1 night ressie and link it to his existing ressie.

I was in this situation this year and it is definitely a use it or lose it situation. I lost mine, because I didnt have another trip planned and the points could not be transferred because they were borrowed.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Yes,
But if the OP has 5 points and needs 3 more to complete his studio 1 night ressie, he will lose those 5 points without a transfer. He will be forced to obtain the entire 8 points from another member so that member can make his 1 night ressie and link it to his existing ressie.

I was in this situation this year and it is definitely a use it or lose it situation. I lost mine, because I didnt have another trip planned and the points could not be transferred because they were borrowed.

That is indeed a "special" circumstance, but usually what could happen is that you could have an entire day ressie made, have the two linked, and any points you have left in your account could be banked unless they are "stressed" points. I actually have a close friend who had something similar happen a couple years ago, and she has been able to avoid it since then. She now plans better, because she knows how to. I think that is what DVC wants EVERYONE to do.

 

[JimMIA]

She now plans better, because she knows how to. I think that is what DVC wants EVERYONE to do.

Right. My adult daughters, who share the account, are under strict instructions to beat me senseless if they ever see any points in the account past the final banking deadline!

Of course, stuff does come up -- plans change, a relative cancels, etc -- but we try to bank forward and borrow back to avoid losing points. Right now, for example, with an October use year, we've had zero 2005 points for months. They are already banked into 2006.

*****
And, in OP's case, unless he had already borrowed all of his points, borrowing is another option for him. Borrowing is not a transfer. (Why didn't I think of that before? )

 

[LIFERBABE]

That is indeed a "special" circumstance, but usually what could happen is that you could have an entire day ressie made, have the two linked, and any points you have left in your account could be banked unless they are "stressed" points. I actually have a close friend who had something similar happen a couple years ago, and she has been able to avoid it since then. She now plans better, because she knows how to. I think that is what DVC wants EVERYONE to do.

I dont think that situation is that "special". We had a waitlist come thru so we changed resorts. It took 5 less points for the new reservation. Those 5 points were borrowed.
I like to plan, but I also like the flexibility of DVC. To tell someone to plan better or lose their points is punitive. Especially when a transfer can help. Planning is key, but to lump those who could benefit from a little transfer every now and then as unknowledgeable or poor planners is harsh.

 

[JimMIA]

I dont think that situation is that "special". We had a waitlist come thru so we changed resorts. It took 5 less points for the new reservation. Those 5 points were borrowed.
I like to plan, but I also like the flexibility of DVC. To tell someone to plan better or lose their points is punitive. Especially when a transfer can help. Planning is key, but to lump those who could benefit from a little transfer every now and then as unknowledgeable or poor planners is harsh.

I think the situation you describe may well be "special enough" that MS would see what happened and let you do the transfer anyway.

I'm not really expecting airtight enforcement of these rules. Hasn't occurred in any other aspect of Disney that I'm aware of, so I don't expect it here.

 

[dianeschlicht]

There was no harshness intended, Liferbabe. I said I thought your case was special.

 

[DVC Grandpa]

I would like to see DVC allow us to combine points and cash for one night if the remainder of points in ones account is less than the required points to book that night. I believe DVC can set a value to a point with no difficulty so circumstances like this can be accommodated. This would solve my situation, but maybe that would be too easy.

 

[LIFERBABE]

There was no harshness intended, Liferbabe. I said I thought your case was special.

Diane you did, and what I was trying to say is that if DVC took that line, that would be harsh and inflexible. There will be many special situations and I think one thing that harms us is we share every time DVC helps us out of a jam. Hopefully Jim is right and they will use their discretion in helping those that really need it. If they were to tell me to plan better next time, Im not so sure how magical I would feel!

 

[Dean]

First I want to say that I agree that there has to be rules on the business of renting out points, but then I have to say I have rented points, enough to complete a night’s stay. Once it was 3 point and another time it was 6 and yet another time it was 24 points. Each time it was too add to my points that would have otherwise been “lost” or it just gave us that additional day. I know that there are others that need points to do the same thing. I am asking, where are we going to find these few points if the ‘renters’ can only rent once each UY? Would you rent only a few points from your larger balance?

And reality has set in. No way can DVC make exceptions for some in this situation and keep the rules in places. Now the only people who will be willing to transfer just a few points are only the ones that are doing it simply to be helpful or if that's all the points they have to deal with in that use year. No one trying to get cash for whatever reason would do it now, nor should they.

 

[DBBN]

I like the the 1 transfer per year limitation. I do understand the language in the POS has changed over the years. Looking at my old documents I've found a mailing titled "Member Guidelines for Disney Vacation Club" dated August 1999, that lists no limitation to the number of transfers allowed per year. This mailing is the oldest I've seen to date that does not have language limiting the number of transfers.

Back to the OP - I believe in the OP's example the 1 transfer limit creates an UNINTENDED consequence. DVC may have been better off requiring any transfers to be from the "Same Resort" and the "Same Use Year" rather than limiting the number of transfers during a year. Why would it matter how many transfers or points the OP receives if for example he receives June 2006 BCV points deposited into his June 2006 BCV account?

 

[Dean]

I like the the 1 transfer per year limitation. I do understand the language in the POS has changed over the years. Looking at my old documents I've found a mailing titled "Member Guidelines for Disney Vacation Club" dated August 1999, that lists no limitation to the number of transfers allowed per year. This mailing is the oldest I've seen to date that does not have language limiting the number of transfers.

Back to the OP - I believe in the OP's example the 1 transfer limit creates an UNINTENDED consequence. DVC may have been better off requiring any transfers to be from the "Same Resort" and the "Same Use Year" rather than limiting the number of transfers during a year. Why would it matter how many transfers or points the OP receives if for example he receives June 2006 BCV points deposited into his June 2006 BCV account?

The end result may be the abolishment of transfers.

 

[jdg345]

The end result may be the abolishment of transfers.

Agreed ... to me, the issues seems to be prevention of someone transferring OKW points into a BCV contract to get 11 month booking @ BCV on their OKW points. A simple rule stating that transferred points can only be used at a 7 month window with an exception if it's same resort to same resort (BCV to BCV) would have solved this much easier and still allowed the one-sy / two-sy transfers.