Tax Rip Off?

Bruin_mouse · Dec 18, 2018

Looking at my annual dues statements today I noticed something bizarre: I'm paying the most for property taxes on my BLT points despite having significantly less points there than at VGC or AUL. It didn't take long to figure out why when I looked at the tax rates:

BLT-1.7029/point
VGC-1.0411/point
AUL-.6142/point

It seems criminal that BLT points are taxed at a rate that's almost triple that of Aulani's. I know CM wages got the brunt of the blame for the annual dues increases this year, but has this tax issue ever been explained? Is there a similar disparity for the other FL DVC properties?

stuartsong · Dec 18, 2018

It's a function of the locality. All of the WDW resorts are similar in the real estate tax. It ranges from $1.29 (OKW) to $1.72 (PVB) a point. I don't have the figures for SSR & CCV. HHI (0.3845) and VB (0.6646) are much lower also.

BillPA · Dec 18, 2018

Just remember AUL and VGC have an transient Accommodation Tax on top of the dues.

_auroraborealis_ · Dec 18, 2018

California have all sorts of state-specific rules about tax rate that come into play.

KAT4DISNEY · Dec 18, 2018

I believe that Aulani costs are spread out over more total points - ie, it had point creep over BLT. So for example when you need to divide $1,000 in taxes BLT might have 10,000 points to pay it but Aulani might have 15,000 points. So 10 cents a point at BLT vs .066 per point at Aulani in my fake example. It's likely not that extreme but still there is a difference.

And just think how the assessors office in FL had originally attempted even higher taxes on the properties. I know Disney won an appeal for some reduction but I'm not certain if that was all properties or only some.

Is that the estimated tax for the coming year or was it the actual tax used to calculate the true up for this year?

DebbieB · Dec 19, 2018

Bruin_mouse said:
Looking at my annual dues statements today I noticed something bizarre: I'm paying the most for property taxes on my BLT points despite having significantly less points there than at VGC or AUL. It didn't take long to figure out why when I looked at the tax rates:

BLT-1.7029/point
VGC-1.0411/point
AUL-.6142/point

It seems criminal that BLT points are taxed at a rate that's almost triple that of Aulani's. I know CM wages got the brunt of the blame for the annual dues increases this year, but has this tax issue ever been explained? Is there a similar disparity for the other FL DVC properties?

Local tax assessment. I live in a suburb, my property tax rate is higher than those who live in the city.

On a better note, they appealed the tax assessments in FL. Got an .11 credit/pt on BWV for 2018.

DebbieB · Dec 19, 2018

BillPA said:
Just remember AUL and VGC have an transient Accommodation Tax on top of the dues.

I know you have to pay at the time of stay at Aulani. Never paid it at VGC.

crisi · Dec 19, 2018

Are you not from the United States? Property taxes vary by state and by city and county within the state. Some states - like New Jersey - have incredibly high property taxes. Hawaii has low property taxes because it gets most of its tax dollars off of tourist fees - like sales tax, accomodation tax, etc. Florida, which last I checked has no income tax, gets a lot of its revenue from property tax, while California has really high personal income tax rates, but lower property taxes.

Bruin_mouse · Dec 19, 2018

crisi said:
Are you not from the United States? Property taxes vary by state and by city and county within the state. Some states - like New Jersey - have incredibly high property taxes. Hawaii has low property taxes because it gets most of its tax dollars off of tourist fees - like sales tax, accomodation tax, etc. Florida, which last I checked has no income tax, gets a lot of its revenue from property tax, while California has really high personal income tax rates, but lower property taxes.

If this post is correct:

stuartsong said:
It's a function of the locality. All of the WDW resorts are similar in the real estate tax. It ranges from $1.29 (OKW) to $1.72 (PVB) a point. I don't have the figures for SSR & CCV. HHI (0.3845) and VB (0.6646) are much lower also.

then a DVC property that's also in FL has a tax rate that's close to one-third of the BLT's. Maybe Orange County, FL does have a crazy property tax rate, but that disparity seems very excessive.

Bruin_mouse · Dec 19, 2018

KAT4DISNEY said:
Is that the estimated tax for the coming year or was it the actual tax used to calculate the true up for this year?

I think it's just the estimated taxes. The true up for 2018 kicked some money back for BLT which was a nice surprise.

dvc_john · Dec 19, 2018

I know Disney has had issues with the Orange County tax assessor in the past. I know that my DVC resorts in Orange County have the highest taxes of any of my timeshares. My DVC resorts in HH, VB, and VGC have much lower taxes, as do my other timeshares in California, Hawaii, beachfront resorts elsewhere in Florida, and Nevada. My Hilton timeshare in Orange County is second only to my DVC resorts in Orange County for taxes.

Just an example, a week in a BLT lake view 1br in choice season nets $410 in taxes. My non-Orange County resort taxes run from about $30 to $125 per week.

I suspect that the high resale value of DVC is partly to blame.

wdrl · Dec 19, 2018

DebbieB said:
I know you have to pay at the time of stay at Aulani. Never paid it at VGC.

The Transient Occupancy Tax for VGC is built into the maintenance fees for the resort. Every VGC owner pays that tax regardless whether the VGC points are used at VGC, or used at all.

FYI: The unweighted average increase in ad valorem taxes for all DVC resorts in 2019 is 3.02%, with PVB having the greatest increase -- 4.97% -- among the WDW resorts. Aulani led all DVC resorts with a 21.55% increase in its ad valorem taxes.

crisi · Dec 19, 2018

Bruin_mouse said:
If this post is correct:

then a DVC property that's also in FL has a tax rate that's close to one-third of the BLT's. Maybe Orange County, FL does have a crazy property tax rate, but that disparity seems very excessive.

Poly and OKW have two very different footprints (some localities do property taxes off of foundational footprint), two very different point structures, and probably two very different valuations (some localities do property taxes over the appraised value of the property). Have you taken all of that into account before saying the difference is excessive?

crisi · Dec 19, 2018

dvc_john said:
I know Disney has had issues with the Orange County tax assessor in the past. I know that my DVC resorts in Orange County have the highest taxes of any of my timeshares. My DVC resorts in HH, VB, and VGC have much lower taxes, as do my other timeshares in California, Hawaii, beachfront resorts elsewhere in Florida, and Nevada. My Hilton timeshare in Orange County is second only to my DVC resorts in Orange County for taxes.

Just an example, a week in a BLT lake view 1br in choice season nets $410 in taxes. My non-Orange County resort taxes run from about $30 to $125 per week.

I suspect that the high resale value of DVC is partly to blame.

Yep, if Orange County bases property taxes off valuations, then its going to be the case that a building on Disney property is more valuable than one next to Disney property which is more valuable than one ten miles from a gate which is more valuable than one near - but not on - the Atlantic coast. Location, location, location.

Bruin_mouse · Dec 21, 2018

crisi said:
Poly and OKW have two very different footprints (some localities do property taxes off of foundational footprint), two very different point structures, and probably two very different valuations (some localities do property taxes over the appraised value of the property). Have you taken all of that into account before saying the difference is excessive?

If an almost 300% difference isn't "excessive," on your planet for two comparable items, I'm not sure what to tell you.

CarolynFH · Dec 21, 2018

Bruin_mouse said:
If an almost 300% difference isn't "excessive," on your planet for two comparable items, I'm not sure what to tell you.

In this case, the excessive difference is due to differences in property tax rates between different geographic locales. DVC has no control over that, other than indirect participation in the lawsuits WDW is pursuing against the Orange County Florida tax assessor regarding his valuation methods, which lead to higher taxes on DVC properties in that one county (VB is in a different county).

siren0119 · Dec 21, 2018

Bruin_mouse said:
If an almost 300% difference isn't "excessive," on your planet for two comparable items, I'm not sure what to tell you.

The PP you quoted was speaking of OKW and Poly, which (if the above post is correct) are $1.29pp and $1.72pp respectively. A $0.43 difference per point is not a 300% difference, unless my math is way off.

crisi · Dec 21, 2018

Bruin_mouse said:
If an almost 300% difference isn't "excessive," on your planet for two comparable items, I'm not sure what to tell you.

That you are very, very, very bad at math.

bumbershoot · Dec 22, 2018

stuartsong said:
It ranges from $1.29 (OKW) to $1.72 (PVB) a point. I don't have the figures for SSR & CCV. HHI (0.3845) and VB (0.6646) are much lower also.

crisi said:
That you are very, very, very bad at math.

I haven’t done the math, but I think he was referring to Vero vs Bay Lake. Not poly vs okw.

And I suppose Bruin could contact Indian River and Orange counties to see about their property taxes.

And as you said, Hawaii has other ways of getting money than property taxes.

Bruin_mouse · Dec 23, 2018

crisi said:
That you are very, very, very bad at math.

Goodness gracious son, now I understand this:

crisi said:
I invested money in Disney to make money so I can have wine with my dinner.

Either you are taking money from me, or you are denying it to housekeeping. Which monster would you like to be?

Tell you what, I own quite a few Disney shares myself. I’m happy to buy you as many bottles of wine of your choice as you need to get through the day. I’m happier to have you pick on anonymous internet strangers than hardworking Disney housekeepers.

Tax Rip Off?

Mouseketeer

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

I like marshmallows. And adult beverages.

Glad to be a test subject

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

Mouseketeer

Mouseketeer

DVC since 1993

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

Mouseketeer

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

Mouseketeer

Share this page