Ever had to choose to put your kids in a poor-quality school?

[NotUrsula]

I live in an area where magnet schools are generally considered by middle-class residents to be the only decent public school option. We've done OK in the lower grades, but high school for our youngest is looming up as a problem. There are a few good magnet choices for high school, but for various reasons I won't get into, admission to them is fairly unlikely to happen. If so, then the quality of the available public options go way down, like "avg. ACT of 12" way down.

So, private school may be an option, but again, admissions standards apply. We've been down this road before, and the resulting education wasn't worth a fraction of what was poured into it; which was a fortune that this time we really can't afford to spend. Moving to a better district with geographically-assigned schools is another option, but not at all a good one: our current home is paid for, but very small and not worth very much, and we're getting close to retirement age now. Moving would mean taking on a mortgage again, one much larger than the one we paid off.

When we chose to live here we assumed that our kids would simply work hard enough to get over the academic bar into the magnet schools (something that both of us did in our time); we thought that was a given. As it turns out, it didn't happen, no matter how much enrichment we did or how hard we pushed -- our kids are fairly bright, but just don't have the drive to do more than coast along with a C+ average. When I think about going into debt to pour another $60K into a mediocre high school career it makes me feel sick, and I'm just not sure I can do it again.

So, is it really that bad to just accept a not-very-good school situation? (I'm not speaking of dangerous conditions, just crappy academics.) FTR: I don't think the kid would actually score a 12 on the ACT (turns out you can actually manage that with pure guessing!); I think something in the neighborhood of 21 or so would be more likely.

 

[LSUmiss]

What do your kids want? Would it motivate them to do better if they were going to a better school that you were paying for? In my area, public school was/is not an option. It’s not just b/c of academics but the overall environment. My dad used to threaten me with going to public school when I slacked up. I know now he would have never done it, but I didn’t know at the time & that was motivation enough for me.

 

[katie01]

Could they do an online academy? There are some affordable ones. They could get their socialization through community activities

 

[MrsBooch]

I went to a poor/mediocre school - I was very self motivated and managed to get into a very elite University which I then promptly failed out of in my sophomore year, because the High School experience I went through never taught me how to actually study, write, and actually learn things. The education system ignored kids like me, because I wasn't a problem and didn't need anything special.
I memorized a lot of things, I have pretty good short term reading comprehension and did really well on standardized tests, breezed through my classes, never had to study, took summer classes to get some of the easier credits out of the way and graduate early. I thought I was the sh...

And then I was smacked in the face with Higher Learning and I was totally ill equipped and out of my element. I ended up taking a year off, getting a job, and going to community college for a year while I gradually clawed my way back into academia. Finally went back to a smaller, different college, that had extremely great ratio's and teachers who helped me understand HOW to study, HOW to write papers, etc.

It's not hard to do well in a poor school system - but the damage is that they don't care how you get out and what you walk away with.

That being said, I fork out a lot of $$, nauseating amount, to send my son to private school I spent a year researching because I don't consider our public schools to be adequate.

Not a lot of people will agree with me and I think it's super subjective - but I place a premium on formal education so that's where I'm coming from in my answer.

If you can't do anything to change it, can you supplement their education? Tutors? etc?

 

[NotUrsula]

What do your kids want? Would it motivate them to do better if they were going to a better school that you were paying for? In my area, public school was/is not an option. It’s not just b/c of academics but the overall environment. My dad used to threaten me with going to public school when I slacked up. I know now he would have never done it, but I didn’t know at the time & that was motivation enough for me.

Oh, if only that kind of motivation worked on this kid. If I left it up to the kid, the preferred option would be 2 years of the least demanding private school possible, then dropping out at age 16 and taking the GED. Absolutely not an option: a HS diploma followed by some sort of further education will happen (trade school is acceptable, we don't insist on college.)

We're dealing with online education now, and we've discovered that it is a really bad fit. The kid needs to actually attend school.

 

[abdmom]

What does he want to do after high school? Can he be motivated by needing to do well at school to achieve his career goals? Or are his career goals non-academic?

Not everyone is an academic and that's OK. There's plenty of well-paying jobs in the trades.

I'm a big fan of private schools, but I wouldn't spend money on a private school if he's going to continue to slack off and eventually drop out.

 

[Kestryl]

I went to a “mediocre” public high school. Average ACT around the time I graduated was around 23. (This was a while ago.) But I also got a full ride scholarship to a private college, then went to grad school and got my PhD. So my experience has been that students from mediocre schools can do quite well academically.

Is there something in the public school that would be motivational? Both my old school and the school where my husband teaches now have lots of vocational programs.

 

[daisy2013]

I went to a mediocre at best probably less than jr high and high school. I was motivated enough to take every honors and so course I could and there weren’t many available to take. I also played sports and was in the band. So I was fairly well rounded. I ended up at a great state school mainly because the guidance counselor didn’t really know enough to help me navigate scholarships at private schools - but no real regrets because I graduated with no debt from undergrad a d a scholarship to law school. If your child is motivated and you can help them obtain opportunities to stretch academically they will be fine. If they are not motivated no matter how great the high school is they will not take advantage of it. But maybe they really don’t want to go to college, maybe they want a trade. That is a conversation you have to have with them

 

[3boymthr]

Oh, if only that kind of motivation worked on this kid. If I left it up to the kid, the preferred option would be 2 years of the least demanding private school possible, then dropping out at age 16 and taking the GED. Absolutely not an option: a HS diploma followed by some sort of further education will happen (trade school is acceptable, we don't insist on college.)

We're dealing with online education now, and we've discovered that it is a really bad fit. The kid needs to actually attend school.

If trade school is an option - is there a local/regional vocational high school he could go to? My youngest HATES school. Average grades even though he could do better. very smart. just not motivated. We are lucky in that the local high school is a good one but he decided in 8th grade that he wanted to go to the regional vocational high school. He is currently studying to be an electrician. The trades are definitely a good financial option. Average wage with journeyman license (earned after 4 years in the trade) around here is $40/hr. He LOVES it. Only has to do academics half the time. In a few weeks he should be starting a co-op job which will get him out of school and earning a wage. He will still have to do the academics but he and I both feel like he has a plan for life that is going to get him earning a lot of money without sinking a lot into college debt.

Edit: Or is he in to the military? It's definitely a good career choice. in which case the local high schools would be a good option - they don't care how good the schools were - only that you didn't get into trouble and attended all your classes. Middle child is going this route.

 

[littlejimmy]

I love how every kid on the dis that performs poorly is really smart, just poorly motivated. heck, maybe the kid just isn't very smart. I say send him to the crappy high school. and then have him join the military. if he is the smart but undisciplined kind, the military will shape him up. hope this helps

 

[cabanafrau]

Personal motivation is key IMO. Not mom and dad's motivational sticks or carrots. May need to sit down and discuss what your kid's dreams/plans are and then move the discussion into developing a plan for achieving them. They may not know yet if they want to be a doctor, lawyer or bridge builder specifically and that's fine. They should be able to pinpoint some strong preferences and dislikes to come up with at least a loose framework to start. If they grasp onto the idea that they are the biggest factor in whether or not they get the best shot at living the future they want they're more likely to take some steps to try to get there.

Kids with average capabilities can learn in an less than ideal setting. A setting with very rigorous demands that are likely to overwhelm and turn them off is useless. If they express aspirations to be a neurosurgeon and a disinclination for academics, have a frank discussion and tell them the option is theirs to put up or shut up because that's just reality. If they express a desire to work outdoors explore what that means -- roofing? digging ditches? landscape architect? Exploring potential income ranges, anticipated length of physically sustaining a career in very physical fields, how hard it is to gain employment in certain fields, how steady or spotty the availability of work in certain fields should all be talked about. Keep supplying very real information to force them to recognize and give real answers about barriers and stumbling blocks. Letting them work in teenage, entry level grunt work, part-time jobs and allowing the realization that their adult options will be just as limited and aggravating without motivation and taking steps to be able to reach for the job they choose can be very eye opening and motivating.

 

[Southernmiss]

Have you talked to teachers who have worked at the school for a long time?

It might be more reputation of the school and the students who are attending the school than the teachers and academics that give it a bad rap.

On paper and by reputation, I should not have sent my kids to the public middle and high school that they went to. However, their education at these schools has taken them anywhere they've wanted to go.

The test scores of the schools have risen dramatically and with a great PR person in the district office, the schools are getting the positive recognition that they deserve which is improving the outsider's perspective of the schools.

Another question, how would your student deal with peer pressure and the social environment of the public school? Would that lead them into trouble? That would be a primary concern of mine.

 

[3boymthr]

I love how every kid on the dis that performs poorly is really smart, just poorly motivated. heck, maybe the kid just isn't very smart. I say send him to the crappy high school. and then have him join the military. if he is the smart but undisciplined kind, the military will shape him up. hope this helps

Keep in mind that most kids who don't do well in school, as long as they've had any educational challenges identified, it's because they are not motivated. The middle child, who has an average IQ and some educational challenges, did great in school at least as far as grades were concerned. In part because, most kids end up on educational paths that don't challenge them past their capabilities. The youngest OTH can talk circles around most people when it comes to logic and general knowledge, gets As on all his tests and quizzes with little to no studying, but average grades overall because he can't be bothered doing the homework and doesn't take honors classes even though he's eligible because "what's the point, I don't care what grades I get - it's not like I'm going to college."

 

[happily single]

The child's motivation or lack thereof tells me everything. If your child was motivated to do better than a better school is called for. There are thousands of kids that graduate from a medicore school every year and make something of themselves. Likewise, there are thousands of kids whose parents go into debt to send them to the best high schools that fail at life.

We also lived in a very poor city for many years. We lived in a "nice" area of the city and I did well. 95% of the kids we knew had never gone on a vacation. heck, most had never been out to dinner. The schools had very low test scores and were always in the lowest portion of State testing. But you know what??? The school was great. The teachers really cared and the Principal was great.

I think its all subjective. Some people love Disney; Some people will never visit. Its all what you make of it

 

[Darcy03231]

DS is really smart, but hated school and was unmotivated. While we lived in an area where the high school provided lots of opportunities he did not take advantage. He ended up doing a year of community college that he didn't do well at and then went to work full-time. Fast-forward to today he's 27 and has a great job with an HVAC company that has provided on the job training. He did take one course to get is certification in refrigeration. He did very well and loves it.

Not every child is cut out for higher education, or even trade school right out of high school. It took DS several years of low-paying jobs before he made the decision he needed to do something different. I would send him to the not-so-optimal high school to start. If he shows motivation you could explore other options. There's no way I would pay for private school or take on debt for an unmotivated student.

 

[iivye]

I put my daughter in private school because the public schools in our area aren't very good and there are a lot of bad influences. If you can swing it I recommend sending them to private school just so they can learn how to study and write papers as a previous poster stated. This will help them with whatever they choose to do.

I was in the Navy for eight years and I loved it but it's not as easy as it used to be to get in. My nephew did poorly in high school and thought he would just join the military. He couldn't score high enough on the ASVAB to get in. I think vocational school another great option. My brother did poorly in high school and chose to go to a vocational school for auto body repair and he does well for himself.

Private school is not cheap and we have struggled to pay for it but I believe that my daughter would not speak or write as well as she does now if I had sent her to public school. She is unmotivated and needed the structure and higher expectations that came with private school.

 

[clori]

I would need to know more. What makes it a mediocre school? For instance does it have a lot of English language learners who may be very bright but still learning the language so bring down test scores. Does it have a high amount of students with special ed needs which may lower the overall test scores? Have you talked to students who attend there currently to see what they really say about the school vs parents who attended 20 years ago since honestly times change. High poverty definitely plays a role as well

It could easily be while overall test scores may be low the education is of high quality by caring teachers. Our public high school is like what I described above. However the teachers really care and do an excellent job teaching. Motivated students do well and go on to many decent/top colleges. However I also agree an unmotivated student will probably not do amazingly well at any school .

Would a vocational high school work for your child?

 

[TwoMisfits]

I live in an area where magnet schools are generally considered by middle-class residents to be the only decent public school option. We've done OK in the lower grades, but high school for our youngest is looming up as a problem. There are a few good magnet choices for high school, but for various reasons I won't get into, admission to them is fairly unlikely to happen. If so, then the quality of the available public options go way down, like "avg. ACT of 12" way down.

So, private school may be an option, but again, admissions standards apply. We've been down this road before, and the resulting education wasn't worth a fraction of what was poured into it; which was a fortune that this time we really can't afford to spend. Moving to a better district with geographically-assigned schools is another option, but not at all a good one: our current home is paid for, but very small and not worth very much, and we're getting close to retirement age now. Moving would mean taking on a mortgage again, one much larger than the one we paid off.

When we chose to live here we assumed that our kids would simply work hard enough to get over the academic bar into the magnet schools (something that both of us did in our time); we thought that was a given. As it turns out, it didn't happen, no matter how much enrichment we did or how hard we pushed -- our kids are fairly bright, but just don't have the drive to do more than coast along with a C+ average. When I think about going into debt to pour another $60K into a mediocre high school career it makes me feel sick, and I'm just not sure I can do it again.

So, is it really that bad to just accept a not-very-good school situation? (I'm not speaking of dangerous conditions, just crappy academics.) FTR: I don't think the kid would actually score a 12 on the ACT (turns out you can actually manage that with pure guessing!); I think something in the neighborhood of 21 or so would be more likely.

Homeschooling is always an option to be considered in your situation. In his younger high school years, it may also him to find his interest path, and in his older high school years, he could use that knowledge to explore dual enrollment classes at the local community college. It is a big lift for you, the parents, but it may be the best option for your situation, so I felt it needed suggesting...

 

[NotUrsula]

I guess I should have clarified that motivation is the key issue here; there is none, not for academics, anyway. I know very well that a motivated scholar can overcome a bad K-12 education: I did it myself. That is what is throwing us; we were both strivers, and this lack of academic ambition is just not something we understand very well. (This kid is artsy. Perfect grade in music, for instance. Math or English? Not so much. LOTS of zeroes for missing deadlines, etc.) Also, FTR, the military isn't an option, due to a disqualifying medical issue.

I'll add that the kid is more in favor of private school, mostly to get away from the prevalence of poverty (or what the kid perceives as the prevalence of poverty. The truth is that very few of the students at their current G&T public middle school live in dire poverty; most are the children of civil servants or skilled blue-collar workers, many of whom are single parents. The kiddo is engaging in a fantasy that a private school will magically be devoid of substance abuse, bullying or less-than-nurturing teachers -- a fantasy that comes from recruiting videos rather than reality.)

What I'm trying to get at is a balance point where, hopefully, some part of the family does not unduly suffer for the choices of another part of it. DH & I have already been through spending a ton of money to try to give kids the best options, only to have all the options left discarded because of a lack of motivation. It hurts us quite a bit, both financially and emotionally, and we're trying to decide if it is fair at this point to put our own needs first. Our children are not going to be able to contribute to our living expenses in our old age; even if they were inclined to do so, they don't have that kind of earning power. (Not caring at all about educational quality isn't what we are looking at; we're not that angry.) We're 22 years into the active parenting gig; and while our income is solid, we're not anywhere close to what I would think of as well-off, and amassing a 6-figure college fund required years of concerted effort.

DH & I have friends & colleagues who are very invested in getting their kids into the "right" college, and watched as they stressed over Ivy League interviews and/or lamented the performance of a kid who failed to exceed a 4.0 GPA in high school. Thoughts like that never crossed our minds even before we knew what our kids' educational aptitude was; we don't have those kinds of expectations. (We both were first-generation college graduates who felt privileged to attend our state schools.) In our book, average is just fine.

The high school situation here just doesn't offer that much in terms of middle ground. There are very good public options for high-achievers, but if you don't do well enough to qualify for them by the time you are 13 years old, then what is left is pretty substandard unless you are in a position to invest a lot of money into a private education that is what I would class as mediocre. I have nothing against being average -- what I question is whether or not it is worth investing an estimated $60K into the education of one average student before higher education is even on the table. (Note that that price is for a non-selective private high school; we could spend 2X that on a really good one here if the kid could get in; but if those kinds of grades were on the table then we wouldn't need to spend it at all, because the kid would be high-achieving enough to be accepted at the local magnets, which are just as good, if not better academically. At many of the most select private schools, the investment is as much about the connections as it is the academics, but that's another topic for another day.)

PS: Trust me, homeschooling is NOT an option in this situation. This kid needs the structure of a classroom and the skills of professional educators to get a decent outcome.

 

[Magical2017]

I think an involved parent and motivated student can make a huge difference. I don't know details but if saving for college is a priority, then I would do that. I know it's a tough decision and wish you luck. There is good advice here, and I would talk to parents who send their kids to the schools you are considering.

Editing since I just read that motivation is low. Hmmm...maybe a private school would be the best option for your family.