Disney Skyliner (Gondola Transportation System) Read Post 1 Now Open!

[jknezek]

I doubt there would be a connection from Disney Springs to any of the parks.

Agreed. Not direct anyway.

 

[sachilles]

I doubt there would be a connection from Disney Springs to any of the parks.

Why is that, loss of at park parking revenue? While I think some would take advantage of that, it would really only be an issue for Epcot. I'm not convinced the service would be quick enough for most people to even bother.
There would significant bus and boat savings in that scenario as well.

 

[jknezek]

Why is that, loss of at park parking revenue? While I think some would take advantage of that, it would really only be an issue for Epcot. I'm not convinced the service would be quick enough for most people to even bother.
There would significant bus and boat savings in that scenario as well.

Somewhat about the parking revenue. But more importantly, Disney Springs has a lack of parking already. While it is better with the new garages, I suspect Disney doesn't want to keep building them for people to head to the parks without paying. It just doesn't make sense. You can take the boat to Saratoga Springs and then a bus, which is inconvenient enough that I doubt anyone does it. But if it was direct? Even direct buses no longer run during any useful park hours at least partly for this reason. They aren't going to build a direct Skyliner or other system which would be even more attractive.

 

[Iowamomof4]

Why is that, loss of at park parking revenue? While I think some would take advantage of that, it would really only be an issue for Epcot. I'm not convinced the service would be quick enough for most people to even bother.
There would significant bus and boat savings in that scenario as well.

I think you might be surprised at the lengths people will go to just to save a few bucks on a $$$ vacation.

 

[MaC410]

I wonder how many people already take buses from Disney Springs to either the Contemporary or the Beach Club/Yacht Club/Boardwalk and walk to Magic Kingdom or Epcot.

 

[hertamaniac]

You can take the boat to Saratoga Springs and then a bus, which is inconvenient enough that I doubt anyone does it.

Or if you're in no rush, you can take the DS boats to OKW, POFQ or POR and then bus. It's actually a relaxing ride.

 

[hertamaniac]

I doubt there would be a connection from Disney Springs to any of the parks.

While I agree, I think connecting some resorts to DS has merit. There are a lot of restaurants that could gobble up onsite guests in the evening.

 

[Moliphino]

I wonder how many people already take buses from Disney Springs to either the Contemporary or the Beach Club/Yacht Club/Boardwalk and walk to Magic Kingdom or Epcot.

Or walk to Saratoga and take a park bus. Or if it's before 4pm, walk to one of those resorts to take a bus to DS. I do these all the time. Not to get around parking, as we never have a car, they're just the most direct routes since you can't get from DS to a park directly.

 

[joelkfla]

I’m in Canada but my weather app has Lake Burma Vista (Disney) as a favourite. There is a high wind warning issued for today. It will be interesting to find out if the Skyliner is affected in any way as I know high winds was one of the unknowns we discussed here before it opened.

If anyone is there, does it appear the Skyliner is running as usual? If you ride, was it any different feeling from other days?

Winds were gusting to around 20 mph in the afternoon. Skyliner was running normally. There were no queues at all in the afternoon, and I encountered only one stop of about 15 seconds between CBR & Epcot, and only one or 2 noticeable but very brief slow downs. I think they're getting the hang of it.

There was some noticeable swaying, especially at the high point of the DHS line. Bouncing wasn't an issue. There was a bit of a side-to-side jar coming into the stations as the cabin straightened out.

I asked a Skyliner cm what the wind limit was, and she said 35.

 

[umichigan10]

I think the canal rumor was a result of the more hashed out DVC at CBR rumor. Folks rightly guessed there had to be some sort of premium access to a park, and the close proximity to Epcot let folks armchair imagineer the solution. I know I was one that spitballed a canal might be an option.

Some thought another entrance at Germany would work, and maybe a water way there, and others thought a water way west connecting into the DHS-Epcot canal.

I'm still surprised at the routing of the skyliner. Makes perfect sense as the focal point on Riviera, but feels like like the skyliner route is an after thought or add on from a pre-existing plan.
I would have used the Riviera as a hub, so it had a non transfer option to each park. The turn station is not ideal.
I might have torn down Aruba for the Riviera and put the hub on Jamaica.
In general I think the Aruba location would have been more ideal overall for the riviera for views, transportation and the like, but there must have been some other overriding factor.

Depending on how the sales work out for Riviera, I could see them trying to do something similar on the south end of POR french quarter/ north end of OKW complete with skyliner connecting Disney springs(and their resorts) with the front gate of epcot.

I’m thinking skyliner was their creative solution to connecting riviera to two parks and they figured at that point you mind as well tie in all these massive resorts to save on the buses. Agree on the location being a bit odd when taking skyliner into account, which I feel definitely plays into the location being picked first and the buckets decided on later.

I absolutely agree with the DS-OKW-Epcot with Saratoga and port orleans being tied in. That’s a decent amount of inventory room wise, and there’d be a decent savings on buses.I know there’s conversation down thread about them not tying in the skyliner between epcot and the springs due to people avoiding the parking fee I think the savings on the buses being used would negate the few who chose to do so by far. Not to mention they could increase prices at port Orleans a little and points per night at Saratoga and OKW

 

[sachilles]

Winds were gusting to around 20 mph in the afternoon. Skyliner was running normally. There were no queues at all in the afternoon, and I encountered only one stop of about 15 seconds between CBR & Epcot, and only one or 2 noticeable but very brief slow downs. I think they're getting the hang of it.

There was some noticeable swaying, especially at the high point of the DHS line. Bouncing wasn't an issue. There was a bit of a side-to-side jar coming into the stations as the cabin straightened out.

I asked a Skyliner cm what the wind limit was, and she said 35.

Usually the wind has to be sustained for a certain amount of time. So a 35mph gust isn't necessarily the shut down point FYI. It has to be sustained for a certain amount of time. Direction is also important.
The resort I worked at had 11 lifts. On any given day at least one lift would be on wind hold, while the others had not tripped the wind threshold.

 

[jknezek]

I’m thinking skyliner was their creative solution to connecting riviera to two parks and they figured at that point you mind as well tie in all these massive resorts to save on the buses. Agree on the location being a bit odd when taking skyliner into account, which I feel definitely plays into the location being picked first and the buckets decided on later.

I absolutely agree with the DS-OKW-Epcot with Saratoga and port orleans being tied in. That’s a decent amount of inventory room wise, and there’d be a decent savings on buses.I know there’s conversation down thread about them not tying in the skyliner between epcot and the springs due to people avoiding the parking fee I think the savings on the buses being used would negate the few who chose to do so by far. Not to mention they could increase prices at port Orleans a little and points per night at Saratoga and OKW

I agree with this, but it wouldn't solve the parking problem at Disney Springs. If you have people parking there to save on parking fees at EPCOT, a distinct possibility if you tie in the Skyliner, where do they park the Springs customers? DS has issues there already. And you need to make a lot more money or cut a lot more buses to cover the costs of a few more parking garages like the new one. Those aren't cheap. And yes, even with the new garages, parking is still an issue at peak times. And that is no good for a retail/culinary destination. You don't want people thinking it's too much of a hassle to go...

 

[sachilles]

There are ways around the DS parking issue, or ways to make it less desirable.
The springs opens later, don't run the connector early to Disney springs. You could even one way it in but not out until dinner time.
Your other option is to go the opposite way if parking is an issue at the springs, and allow free parking at epcot, or a section of epcot.

 

[jknezek]

There are ways around the DS parking issue, or ways to make it less desirable.
The springs opens later, don't run the connector early to Disney springs. You could even one way it in but not out until dinner time.
Your other option is to go the opposite way if parking is an issue at the springs, and allow free parking at epcot, or a section of epcot.

Given Disney's current trajectory regarding parking fees I don't think this is a realistic option. As for the others, they could work. Similar to how the buses work from the parks to Springs. However, it seems kind of silly. I really don't think you will see DS connected to the parks directly. Nor do I think the demand from the resorts or Parks to DS is really all that great to warrant a Skyliner type capacity. Every resort bus I've been on to DS is one of the lightest occupied buses around property. So why bother? I suspect we will see more resorts connected via Skyliner if it performs up to Disney expectations. Resorts to Parks needs that capacity. Springs just doesn't seem to.

 

[umichigan10]

Given Disney's current trajectory regarding parking fees I don't think this is a realistic option. As for the others, they could work. Similar to how the buses work from the parks to Springs. However, it seems kind of silly. I really don't think you will see DS connected to the parks directly. Nor do I think the demand from the resorts or Parks to DS is really all that great to warrant a Skyliner type capacity. Every resort bus I've been on to DS is one of the lightest occupied buses around property. So why bother? I suspect we will see more resorts connected via Skyliner if it performs up to Disney expectations. Resorts to Parks needs that capacity. Springs just doesn't seem to.

You make some good points. Geographically the layout being discussed makes sense though. OKW is pretty much across the street from epcot, it seems foolish to not have some sort of transport system there. But I don’t know if the capital investment would warrant just a line to epcot and not to another big destination like the current CBR one does.

who knows, maybe Disney does something that isnt skyliner at all next. There was a rumor (maybe more like a dream) of OKW being connected to epcot via peoplemover a long time back. Maybe something like that gains traction if they see fit

 

[jknezek]

You make some good points. Geographically the layout being discussed makes sense though. OKW is pretty much across the street from epcot, it seems foolish to not have some sort of transport system there. But I don’t know if the capital investment would warrant just a line to epcot and not to another big destination like the current CBR one does.

who knows, maybe Disney does something that isnt skyliner at all next. There was a rumor (maybe more like a dream) of OKW being connected to epcot via peoplemover a long time back. Maybe something like that gains traction if they see fit

That would be interesting. But I can't imagine Disney will go with too many different systems. That's expensive. They are stuck with the monorail, at least for the next decade or two, but I think the Skyliner is the transport system to reduce buses going forward. This is both a big test, and a model. It's an off-the-shelf system, which the people mover would not be and the monorail has proven to not be, and the benefits of off-the-shelf support and parts, can't be over-exaggerated. Neither can the benefits of scale.

I'm fully a believer that more Skyliner routes will be added. There are darn good reasons for it. But the system has to prove itself over the next year or two first, at least.

 

[DavidHobart]

I absolutely agree with the DS-OKW-Epcot with Saratoga and port orleans being tied in. That’s a decent amount of inventory room wise, and there’d be a decent savings on buses. ...Not to mention they could increase prices at port Orleans a little and points per night at Saratoga and OKW

The ROI is more from increased cash prices in current resorts, and the cash flow from new DVC sales. I think--but am not remotely sure, someone who knows weigh in--that Disney cannot change the total annual point requirement of already existing DVC resort. It can move them around, but they have to sum over the year to the same total, I think. Bus costs pale in comparison.

For example Pop, AofA, and CB went up about 20% for 2020, compared to ~6% to 8% 2020 increases in the other mods and values. That sums to about an incremental $60 million in 2020 compared to having prices at those three going up at "just" the level of the other mods/values. Search "skyliner premium" on my site for the details.

So I'd look for a new gondola line location with a. a ton of already existing rooms, and b. land for a new standalone DVC after "Reflections" (a name I hate almost as much as I hate "HarmoniUS") opens. Off the top of my head, the drives me to the All-Stars and a new AK focused DVC, with lines to AK and either HS or Epcot.

 

[crvetter]

Realistically there is little drive for Disney to connect OKW or SSR to any park via an alternative mode of transportation. Riviera it made sense as a marketing tool to sell the DVC points there. However, DVC already sold out OKW and SSR with Disney only owning 2% of the resort (thus only responsible for 2% of the costs) and currently seem to have no problem selling those rooms out at CRO. They essentially have no place to claim a financial benefit by connecting those resorts to Epcot because SSR and OKW already made them the bulk of their money at initial sell out.

DVC already considers Disney Springs a "fifth gate" internally and prides the new walking connection to SSR and the boats to OKW and SSR. So given that I even suspect less so that those rooms are connected. Some DVC owners stay SSR specifically to walk to DS when they plan non-park days. Plus with the large campus it would already need to maintain the internal bus and DVC owners wouldn't be happy for the increased dues related to an alternative transportation method as it stands DRR has one of (if not the) the highest transportation dues out of any resort (conservative or not we will know more later in a few years).

Then comes the issue with Disney Springs being directly connected to parks. They already did away with the direct to park buses because of parking abuses and did away with the park to Disney Springs bus until 4 PM so I suspect they don't have any desire at all to connect it to anything. Personally the next likely expansion of alternative transportation (if it comes through) would be something with Reflections (though unlikely since no permit suggests anything and would benefit a small number of rooms/campsites at WL/CCV/BRV, Reflections, and FW) or something in the AK Resort area since they have a glut of cash rooms there (similar to the Epcot Resort area) that are all buses.

 

[sachilles]

I agree it has to prove itself.
However they have have to have had some idea where the next install would be.
It has to serve large bed bases, and access at least one park.

You have to figure there will be some type of system with access to MK and some of the MK area resorts. Since they already have boats and the monorail, I don't think that will be a huge priority unless the goal is to also reduce monorail use.

You have the animal kingdom cluster.

You have the epcot east cluster.

I'm sure that now they've started to cut back bus service, they'll start to have some real world numbers to establish the cost savings from reduced bus use and can make an argument for what lines make the most sense.


I feel like Disney is starting replace moderate beds with DVC beds, mostly because I think those are the clients who are most DVC prone. Port Orleans is a real good target as is the north east side of epcot. Maybe it's enough to connect the skyliner with the sassagoula river network, for a real cost savings, and that nets you more access to Disney Springs. There is a lot to offer a guest in that cluster of resorts and business.

 

[jknezek]

I agree it has to prove itself.
However they have have to have had some idea where the next install would be.
It has to serve large bed bases, and access at least one park.

You have to figure there will be some type of system with access to MK and some of the MK area resorts. Since they already have boats and the monorail, I don't think that will be a huge priority unless the goal is to also reduce monorail use.

You have the animal kingdom cluster.

You have the epcot east cluster.

I'm sure that now they've started to cut back bus service, they'll start to have some real world numbers to establish the cost savings from reduced bus use and can make an argument for what lines make the most sense.


I feel like Disney is starting replace moderate beds with DVC beds, mostly because I think those are the clients who are most DVC prone. Port Orleans is a real good target as is the north east side of epcot. Maybe it's enough to connect the skyliner with the sassagoula river network, for a real cost savings, and that nets you more access to Disney Springs. There is a lot to offer a guest in that cluster of resorts and business.

I think you'll know the next likely cluster after the current Reflections DVC is built. Where the next one goes, and what transportation options are already available, will indicate the area of the Skyliner expansion. I do think it will be something to do with AK and will include connecting AKL to AK. But it could be something in the EPCOT East Cluster. I don't think Reflections/Fort Wilderness/Wilderness Lodge are a target. Increased boat service is a far cheaper answer and if they were going to do something along those lines it would have been announced to build fervor for Reflections (not that I think Reflections will need it).

I don't think you will see a Skyliner built without a DVC being built to help fund it. Not unless the buses are a lot more problematic than we know they are at present.