Are Disney parks no longer for the Middle class?

[lorenae]

And why shouldnt low income people take holidays and go to Disney? If a low income family is good at managing their money and can save, and take their kids to Disney, then why shouldnt they? Is it one rule for middle class and one rule for low income? Are low income people not allowed to take holidays?

The homeless situation here is due to an exploding population and a housing system unable to keep up. There is literally too many people and too few housing options.

I think "middle class" and "low income" have different meanings to different people and especially in different countries.
Most people with "low income" who work at minimum wage jobs have no health insurance, and usually can't pay for their food, clothing, and shelter. Low income folks usually can't even afford safe transportation. They aren't going to WDW at all. "Low income" in the US is being in pretty dire straights normally, and unfortunately that is worsening for them right now.

Middle class is a big variable, but even many of middle class folks will struggle with no health insurance (too expensive at $15,000/year), and live pay check to pay check to pay for food, clothing and shelter. Add in a couple of kids who require maybe some tutoring or some other thing, or a temporary sickness where one parent is out of work, and they are one step away from bankruptcy. Even if they don't drink Starbucks coffee or have other luxuries, it's not easy to save for a $7000 vacation, when that is the price of a decent used car.

I'm in the second group- middle class but certainly not able to spend $7000/year out of our retirement income to take one vacation. That's about 15% of our pre-tax income. With the cost of insurance, housing, etc, we just don't have that kind of ability to give that up for one trip and still pay our day to day bills. I save, a lot, that's why I could retire young. But that would all change if I spend that kind of money on a vacation.

However, I do travel. A LOT! I just spent a month in Italy and spent a total of $2200 (luckily found an airfare for $360! unbelievable). In that last 15 months I've been to the Czech Republic and Germany, the Pacific coast and Portland, New England, Florida, plus some road trips. All of those together don't come near the price of a $7000 trip to WDW.

Tickets for two adults for 5 day PH are $1200 (flexible date, could save $100 each by going low season). Add two kids at 10 and 12 years old, that's $2400 right there. Add in horrible expensive QS food, and overpriced hotels, (not even to mention transportation) and it's tough for a middle class family.

Sure, it's about choices but when the choice is to pay your mortgage or go to WDW, it's really not a choice any more.

For low income people, it's not even on their radar except as a dream unless they have family help.

 

[LSUmiss]

I think "middle class" and "low income" have different meanings to different people and especially in different countries.
Most people with "low income" who work at minimum wage jobs have no health insurance, and usually can't pay for their food, clothing, and shelter. Low income folks usually can't even afford safe transportation. They aren't going to WDW at all. "Low income" in the US is being in pretty dire straights normally, and unfortunately that is worsening for them right now.

Middle class is a big variable, but even many of middle class folks will struggle with no health insurance (too expensive at $15,000/year), and live pay check to pay check to pay for food, clothing and shelter. Add in a couple of kids who require maybe some tutoring or some other thing, or a temporary sickness where one parent is out of work, and they are one step away from bankruptcy. Even if they don't drink Starbucks coffee or have other luxuries, it's not easy to save for a $7000 vacation, when that is the price of a decent used car.

I'm in the second group- middle class but certainly not able to spend $7000/year out of our retirement income to take one vacation. That's about 15% of our pre-tax income. With the cost of insurance, housing, etc, we just don't have that kind of ability to give that up for one trip and still pay our day to day bills. I save, a lot, that's why I could retire young. But that would all change if I spend that kind of money on a vacation.

However, I do travel. A LOT! I just spent a month in Italy and spent a total of $2200 (luckily found an airfare for $360! unbelievable). In that last 15 months I've been to the Czech Republic and Germany, the Pacific coast and Portland, New England, Florida, plus some road trips. All of those together don't come near the price of a $7000 trip to WDW.

Tickets for two adults for 5 day PH are $1200 (flexible date, could save $100 each by going low season). Add two kids at 10 and 12 years old, that's $2400 right there. Add in horrible expensive QS food, and overpriced hotels, (not even to mention transportation) and it's tough for a middle class family.

Sure, it's about choices but when the choice is to pay your mortgage or go to WDW, it's really not a choice any more.

For low income people, it's not even on their radar except as a dream unless they have family help.

It also depends on family size. We are a family of 3 so we don’t feel it as much. But that’s part of why we are a family of 3 so we can live comfortably. We don’t spend $7000 on vacation. Our trips are more like $4000 for everything.

 

[luvsJack]

And yet middle class families from all over pay those prices to go.

True, very true. I do wonder how many of them are going into debt for that vacation though?

 

[Fldisneyfamily4321]

Were a middle class family with 2 kids and are also single income. (My wife has been out of the work force since our 2nd child, our son, was born 10 years ago).

We do Disney every year for 10-14 days ,staying on site. Hotel can vary, but we always have either free dining, or a huge discount, or whatever. The average cost can range between $3500 and $5500 for that length trip. Honestly, there is no where on this planet I can get that kind of a vacation and entertainment for that amount of time for less. Hell, 2 weeks at the Jersey shore will run me the same or more, lol.

Now, with that said, while I consider us middle class, I have a decent income. We eat out MAYBE once a month, drive two Honda's, and live in a moderate 4 bedroom home built in the late 60's that's nearly paid for. I work with others that earn what I do, drive German cars, live in a house 3x what mine cost, and they ask me how I can afford to "do Disney" every year for two weeks, lol. Go figure right?

Better planning and there are plenty of places , I am going on my 2nd trip to London this year and each trip has cost less then a week at Disney ( 10 days in London ) for two adults and two kids and that is getting two rooms right next to Westminster Abby . There are many places you can travel to that could come in cheaper then a Disney vacation .

 

[RamblingMad]

Better planning and there are plenty of places , I am going on my 2nd trip to London this year and each trip has cost less then a week at Disney ( 10 days in London ) for two adults and two kids and that is getting two rooms right next to Westminster Abby . There are many places you can travel to that could come in cheaper then a Disney vacation .

I like camping and national parks. Those are cheap trips that are amazing.

 

[Fldisneyfamily4321]

I like camping and national parks. Those are cheap trips that are amazing.

Agree , there are definitely plenty of places to travel that are just as fun and entertaining and cost much less then Disney and I am even a Florida resident. My London pass that covers all my days and includes pretty much anything that costs money to visit is 109.00 , I pay 32.00 a night for a very nice and new hotel that is nicely between two major tube stations and a 10 minute walk to Buckingham palace , 2 minutes to Westminster Abby among many other places . I get if people prefer Disney but there are definitely other places to travel for that budget ... including like you said parks and camping .

 

[KatMac]

I went to the county fair in August. The place was a dump. There were only eight rusty, old and scary (not in a good way) rides. With the wrist bracelet to ride, it cost nearly $60. The food was horrid. The lemonade that cost $8 was utterly tasteless. The grounds were poorly maintained, there were no places with air conditioning, the employees were miserable and forget accessibility for the disabled.

If you buy a season pass for Disneyland and make two vacations out of it, you’ll pay less per day than you would for a county fair. I’m far from rich. In fact, I’m disabled! But I’ve found ways to go. When my daughter was seven and she asked for Disneyland, I told her she’d have to chose. If she wanted Disneyland, she’d have to give up cable, gaming systems and later on, fancy phones. I promised if she gave up these things, that money would go into a Disneyland fund. She didn’t have to put two seconds of thought into that. She wanted Disneyland. That was twenty years ago. I wanted to be able to answer this question honestly, so I just asked her if she regretted the decision she made to give up cable and gadgets for Disneyland. She said, “Nobody thinks back on the overpriced toys they had when they were eight years old, but I remember every trip to Disneyland. I have the pictures, the videos and the memories and I’ll cherish those forever.”

So yes, Disneyland is available to a lot of people if they want it more than expensive cars, gadgets and other material things. Hey, I get it. Most people prefer to have toys and fancy cars and stuff and that’s great! But...it would be incorrect to suggest the middle class can’t afford Disney park vacations. Most simply chose to have other things, instead.

 

[luvsJack]

I went to the county fair in August. The place was a dump. There were only eight rusty, old and scary (not in a good way) rides. With the wrist bracelet to ride, it cost nearly $60. The food was horrid. The lemonade that cost $8 was utterly tasteless. The grounds were poorly maintained, there were no places with air conditioning, the employees were miserable and forget accessibility for the disabled.

If you buy a season pass for Disneyland and make two vacations out of it, you’ll pay less per day than you would for a county fair. I’m far from rich. In fact, I’m disabled! But I’ve found ways to go. When my daughter was seven and she asked for Disneyland, I told her she’d have to chose. If she wanted Disneyland, she’d have to give up cable, gaming systems and later on, fancy phones. I promised if she gave up these things, that money would go into a Disneyland fund. She didn’t have to put two seconds of thought into that. She wanted Disneyland. That was twenty years ago. I wanted to be able to answer this question honestly, so I just asked her if she regretted the decision she made to give up cable and gadgets for Disneyland. She said, “Nobody thinks back on the overpriced toys they had when they were eight years old, but I remember every trip to Disneyland. I have the pictures, the videos and the memories and I’ll cherish those forever.”

So yes, Disneyland is available to a lot of people if they want it more than expensive cars, gadgets and other material things. Hey, I get it. Most people prefer to have toys and fancy cars and stuff and that’s great! But...it would be incorrect to suggest the middle class can’t afford Disney park vacations. Most simply chose to have other things, instead.

Oh my! That’s a terrible county fair! We go to our’s at the end of October every year. The best food is local vendors and really good and cheap. For me, dh and the dgds (used to be us and Dd and her bff) it’s $35 for 3 arm bands and one general admission.

BUT, I don’t compare the cost of Disney to a county fair. I compare it to other vacation places. Places we go and spend a week or more. And Disney comes out almost always more expensive or if not more money, less vacation.

 

[RamblingMad]

Oh my! That’s a terrible county fair! We go to our’s at the end of October every year. The best food is local vendors and really good and cheap. For me, dh and the dgds (used to be us and Dd and her bff) it’s $35 for 3 arm bands and one general admission.

BUT, I don’t compare the cost of Disney to a county fair. I compare it to other vacation places. Places we go and spend a week or more. And Disney comes out almost always more expensive or if not more money, less vacation.

It definitely does now. It’s gotten way more expensive over the last couple of years.

 

[L&Lfan]

Our county fair is fabulous. Very well maintained.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Ten years ago I stayed for two weeks at the Grand Floridian. The cost of that is now the cost to stay at pop century for the same amount of time

 

[rotlex]

Ten years ago I stayed for two weeks at the Grand Floridian. The cost of that is now the cost to stay at pop century for the same amount of time

Regardless of my previous comments on how Disney is still a great value and worth the money, your statement is SO true. Our trip next year, staying at a mod\CBR, room wise, is costing me more than I paid to stay at AKL and WL just a few years ago. It's not quite at Poly level yet, but close. Really does make me wonder if we should have bought DVC 10+ years ago, but that's a discussion for another thread, lol.

 

[ronandannette]

Our county fair is fabulous. Very well maintained.

Every County Fair I’ve ever been to in my life, the midway is a travelling show. It is what it is - no way to compare it to a theme park.

 

[luvsJack]

Every County Fair I’ve ever been to in my life, the midway is a travelling show. It is what it is - no way to compare it to a theme park.

exactly! A fair is usually something to do for a day or an evening. Not even close to a theme park. Its like comparing apples and grapes and comparing them as though they were tomatoes and squash.

But like L&L our fair grounds are very well maintained. The fair/ride owners don't maintain it , the fair grounds do and they do a good job.

 

[Colleen27]

I went to the county fair in August. The place was a dump. There were only eight rusty, old and scary (not in a good way) rides. With the wrist bracelet to ride, it cost nearly $60. The food was horrid. The lemonade that cost $8 was utterly tasteless. The grounds were poorly maintained, there were no places with air conditioning, the employees were miserable and forget accessibility for the disabled.

If you buy a season pass for Disneyland and make two vacations out of it, you’ll pay less per day than you would for a county fair. I’m far from rich. In fact, I’m disabled! But I’ve found ways to go. When my daughter was seven and she asked for Disneyland, I told her she’d have to chose. If she wanted Disneyland, she’d have to give up cable, gaming systems and later on, fancy phones. I promised if she gave up these things, that money would go into a Disneyland fund. She didn’t have to put two seconds of thought into that. She wanted Disneyland. That was twenty years ago. I wanted to be able to answer this question honestly, so I just asked her if she regretted the decision she made to give up cable and gadgets for Disneyland. She said, “Nobody thinks back on the overpriced toys they had when they were eight years old, but I remember every trip to Disneyland. I have the pictures, the videos and the memories and I’ll cherish those forever.”

So yes, Disneyland is available to a lot of people if they want it more than expensive cars, gadgets and other material things. Hey, I get it. Most people prefer to have toys and fancy cars and stuff and that’s great! But...it would be incorrect to suggest the middle class can’t afford Disney park vacations. Most simply chose to have other things, instead.

First, I'm sorry your county fair is so horrid. I adore ours, it is truly the place where a lot of my girls' best memories were made (they're 4Hers). Of course, no carnival midway can compare to a real amusement park, but there's always so much to do, tons of free entertainment, and so many good local food vendors. It makes me genuinely sad to know the local fair isn't like that everywhere.

Second, I think Disneyland is a somewhat different case vs. Disney World. The tickets are still expensive, though not as bad, but all the rest is so much easier to manage on a budget because of the abundance of and proximity to off-property lodging and dining. We stayed at a $100/night motel near Disneyland that was clean and had free parking, and we walked to the parks in about 10 minutes. In Orlando, getting a deal like that on a room means a half hour or more drive to the park plus paying for parking once you get there. We ate better at DLR quick service than we have at WDW sit-down restaurants in recent years, for half the price, and could have gone off-site for a meal in a reasonable amount of time if we wanted to save even more. So DLR does seem to me to be more accessible and more enjoyable on a range of budgets than WDW has become of late. We are a family that does spend on experiences over material things, but the Disney World experience has reached a point where it isn't worth the price.

Regardless of my previous comments on how Disney is still a great value and worth the money, your statement is SO true. Our trip next year, staying at a mod\CBR, room wise, is costing me more than I paid to stay at AKL and WL just a few years ago. It's not quite at Poly level yet, but close. Really does make me wonder if we should have bought DVC 10+ years ago, but that's a discussion for another thread, lol.

True story... In 2005, when I took my kids on their first Disney World trip, I passed on free dining at the Polynesian because $225/night was more than I wanted to spend - we opted for a moderate instead. Now you'd pay that for a weekend night at Pop Century through most of the year. It is hard not to see less value in the destination with that kind of price increase!

 

[RamblingMad]

Ten years ago I stayed for two weeks at the Grand Floridian. The cost of that is now the cost to stay at pop century for the same amount of time

Isn’t the crazy? However, ten years ago Disney was in tough shape and poorly maintained too.

I’d rather do a weekend at DL now than a week at WDW. I’d rather do Universal in FL too.

 

[L&Lfan]

I have to disagree somewhat. Things may have changed at Disneyland, but at Walt Disney World, many of the attractions and areas of the resorts are poorly maintained and in desperate need of refurbishment.

 

[DawnM]

I feel like the deals that I used to get at Disney are gone. 10 years ago APs were $350-$500, you would do the Disney education days and get it for less, and Disney was fun (no excessive planning 60 days in advance). We used to go multiple times per year we could do it frugally (we stayed off site, got APs, brought at least Half of our own food, etc....)

We went to Disneyland in the summer of 2017, but haven't done DW since 2015. We have no current plans to go either. It isn't all about money. I went back to work and the kids went to school (we used to homeschool and had more flexibility) and I hate huge crowds. The crowds have gotten exponentially worse.

 

[DawnM]

If you want to figure out what income bracket you are in for your area and family size, plug in your numbers here:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/06/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

 

[EveDallas]

debates like this amuse me. Ive always either been on minimum wage or low income and Ive travelled alot more than my peers including multiple times to Disneyland Paris and Disneyland California.

To me its about HOW you prioritise your income.

It always amazes me that when I was on minimum wage, my peers would spend each weekend in bars and clubs, buy all the latest fashions, have the latest technology, expensive phones etc, and then complain they cant go on holiday.

I would be earning the same amount as them, go to the bars ad clubs at weekends BUT not drink alcohol, my clothes were not designer and I just had a middle range phone and I didnt have all the latest technology. As a result I had money to travel and would be planning my next adventure while they looked on in envy.

No matter what your income is, you CAN go on a Disney parks holiday, you just need to economise and sacrifice in your day to day life. The problem arises when people are not willing to economise and sacrifice in their day to day life. For example, going to the grocery store and buying a weeks worth of food, compared to ordering take out every day. Or not even that, changing from big brand names to own brand names for grocery items. Or not having a Netflix or Hula subscription, or not having the latest model of phone.

There are so so many ways to redistribute your income and save money so that you CAN go on a Disney parks holiday.

I never understand how people say oh thats me priced out. No matter what your income is, if you want something bad enough and it means that much to you, you will find a way to afford it.

I'm guessing that where you live, minimum wage is an actual livable wage. In America, minimum wage is very much not a livable wage. So no, not everyone can go - no matter how they "redistribute their money".