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What is going on with Disney parks?

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I mentioned that on some thread about rack rates and some people scoffed that "who pays rack rates" well obviously some do (and it shouldn't be a way to look down on someone) but I kinda felt like some of those people scoffing missed the point of the raising of the rack rates. Great that you don't ever pay it but if the rack rate has gone up and up and up you're paying way more with a discount than you did even at rack rate just a few short years later and your rack rate is what is really important as that's obviously what the discount is being taken from.

Yeah, I think it's kind of weird there are so many Dis'ers that think "no one pays rack rate". Not everyone is on Disney social media sites waiting for discount news to drop or moving their vacation dates around to make the discount work, etc. I assume most families are going to just look on the Disney site, they have their dates set for when they can take off work or school or whatever, and that's it. Especially if they've never been before... probably lots of rack rate packages to get it all done in one place. I'd say a lot of people probably check Orbitz or Priceline too for good measure but the availability isn't always there. I would assume a very large percentage of WDW's average guests are not The Dis-level type aficionados. So to assume that no one pays rack rate is a little out there.
 
Yeah, I think it's kind of weird there are so many Dis'ers that think "no one pays rack rate". Not everyone is on Disney social media sites waiting for discount news to drop or moving their vacation dates around to make the discount work, etc. I assume most families are going to just look on the Disney site, they have their dates set for when they can take off work or school or whatever, and that's it. Especially if they've never been before... probably lots of rack rate packages to get it all done in one place. I'd say a lot of people probably check Orbitz or Priceline too for good measure but the availability isn't always there. I would assume a very large percentage of WDW's average guests are not The Dis-level type aficionados. So to assume that no one pays rack rate is a little out there.

I think the number of people who pay rack rates for rooms is pretty small. Disney World prominently features their discount offers on their site and anyone who uses a travel agent will be informed about them. Even if you take part in free dining you aren't really paying rack rate. Your room discount is just going to pay for something else.
 
I'll give my two cents. I've been a WDW fanatic almost all my life & nowadays go once or twice a year with my husband. I attended the Disney Institute this summer & I'm coming back in Feb. for the Princess Half Marathon. I have a few observations:

- Disney is absolutely pricing most middle-class families out of their market. When Disney charges XX for a WDW vacation but most families can only afford X, WDW attendance will drop and the company will need to make adjustments in order to fill the parks and rooms. The free market (generally) works well at regulating prices. Disney will need to start offering more discounts and incentives, or come next year they're going to have millions of dollars invested in rides that nobody cares to visit.

- I think Disney missed the mark on their PR & marketing for the SWGE parks. Unlike what we saw for Toy Story Land and Pandora, I didn't see nearly as many ads or hear as much PR buzz about the new parks. With a Star Wars fan base that consists of a LOT of baby boomers and Gex-Xers, they failed to seek out their target guests on the channels they interact with most (TV, news media, and movies.) They didn't strike the right balance of 'shrouded in mystery'/'here's what to look forward to.' I also think it was a mistake to open the west coast SWGE first. I bet if they'd opened them together, the buzz would have been greater.

- Agreeing with what another poster said, a Disney vacation requires a TON of planning in addition to a ton of money. It's not the place to go if you want a relaxing vacation. I've seen a trend of people wanting a more relaxing vacation than what Disney offers.

All this being said, I think when the new Epcot rides, RoTr & Tron debut (along with the new skyliner transportation) WDW will see an uptick in attendance.
 
I think the number of people who pay rack rates for rooms is pretty small. Disney World prominently features their discount offers on their site and anyone who uses a travel agent will be informed about them. Even if you take part in free dining you aren't really paying rack rate. Your room discount is just going to pay for something else.

Yeah, I guess, as long as your trip happens to fall into those visit windows. But if the discount isn't advertised on the site that day, they likely aren't coming back over and over again after they've booked to check if a new discount can be applied. Probably plenty of people that don't even know discounts can be applied to existing reservations. And lots of people do not use travel agents.... so I would say sure, I'm sure a lot of people aren't paying rack rate... but I'm sure plenty ARE.

I'm just saying we forget on these kinds of boards just how many people visit WDW from all over the entire world, and it's only a small percentage "in the know" on all that sort of stuff. And even if you're NOT paying rack rate... 30% off a room that's $700 a night is still no bargain to me. To tell people that "NO ONE pays rack rate" (which is what a few posters had said over in the resorts board a while back) though, meh I don't buy it.
 


- Disney is absolutely pricing most middle-class families out of their market. When Disney charges XX for a WDW vacation but most families can only afford X, WDW attendance will drop and the company will need to make adjustments in order to fill the parks and rooms. The free market (generally) works well at regulating prices. Disney will need to start offering more discounts and incentives, or come next year they're going to have millions of dollars invested in rides that nobody cares to visit.

Disney doesn't necessarily care about butts through turnstiles; they care about profits. If they can increase profits and lower attendance, that's a win for them. They can decrease staffing (and make other cuts around the margin due to lower attendance) and squeeze out even more profit.

They have absolutely been pursuing a perceived "up-market" strategy; well, at least in terms of price if not necessarily in terms of product. I'm really curious to see what their quarterly numbers look like over the next year.
 
I'll give my two cents. I've been a WDW fanatic almost all my life & nowadays go once or twice a year with my husband. I attended the Disney Institute this summer & I'm coming back in Feb. for the Princess Half Marathon. I have a few observations:

- Disney is absolutely pricing most middle-class families out of their market. When Disney charges XX for a WDW vacation but most families can only afford X, WDW attendance will drop and the company will need to make adjustments in order to fill the parks and rooms. The free market (generally) works well at regulating prices. Disney will need to start offering more discounts and incentives, or come next year they're going to have millions of dollars invested in rides that nobody cares to visit.

- I think Disney missed the mark on their PR & marketing for the SWGE parks. Unlike what we saw for Toy Story Land and Pandora, I didn't see nearly as many ads or hear as much PR buzz about the new parks. With a Star Wars fan base that consists of a LOT of baby boomers and Gex-Xers, they failed to seek out their target guests on the channels they interact with most (TV, news media, and movies.) They didn't strike the right balance of 'shrouded in mystery'/'here's what to look forward to.' I also think it was a mistake to open the west coast SWGE first. I bet if they'd opened them together, the buzz would have been greater.

- Agreeing with what another poster said, a Disney vacation requires a TON of planning in addition to a ton of money. It's not the place to go if you want a relaxing vacation. I've seen a trend of people wanting a more relaxing vacation than what Disney offers.

All this being said, I think when the new Epcot rides, RoTr & Tron debut (along with the new skyliner transportation) WDW will see an uptick in attendance.

I agree with all of this. I will say that from my own personal experience as a Star Wars fan that there is a general disdain against Disney owning Star Wars and that there is less of a crossover than one might think. I have always been more of a Disney Parks fan than I am a Star Wars fan so if you put one of my favorite IPs in a theme park that I already visit of course I am going to go there (though I will say I found it underwhelming and not worth the hype personally). On the other hand, you have Star Wars fans who have never visited a Disney Parks and now with the hatred for Disney post TLJ no amount of marketing would convince that demographic to set foot there - especially with it being set in ST era.
 


I think the number of people who pay rack rates for rooms is pretty small. Disney World prominently features their discount offers on their site and anyone who uses a travel agent will be informed about them. Even if you take part in free dining you aren't really paying rack rate. Your room discount is just going to pay for something else.
The pay off for getting free dining is paying rack rate for the room. You can't stack discounts.
 
Disney doesn't necessarily care about butts through turnstiles; they care about profits. If they can increase profits and lower attendance, that's a win for them. They can decrease staffing (and make other cuts around the margin due to lower attendance) and squeeze out even more profit.

They have absolutely been pursuing a perceived "up-market" strategy; well, at least in terms of price if not necessarily in terms of product. I'm really curious to see what their quarterly numbers look like over the next year.

I think this is overplayed some. If they weren't worried about attendance they wouldn't have offered a third round of free dining and other big discounts after a 3% drop in attendance in the third quarter. US parks and resorts had higher per guest spending in the third quarter but profits and revenues were down.
 
The pay off for getting free dining is paying rack rate for the room. You can't stack discounts.

I understand that. I was just trying to say that free dining is really nothing more than a room discount dressed upped as something else. They are giving you the money you would have saved off a room discount and applying it to the dining plan instead. Sorry for the confusion.
 
I understand that. I was just trying to say that free dining is really nothing more than a room discount dressed upped as something else. They are giving you the money you would have saved off a room discount and applying it to the dining plan instead. Sorry for the confusion.
:thumbsup2
 
I will say that from my own personal experience as a Star Wars fan that there is a general disdain against Disney owning Star Wars and that there is less of a crossover than one might think.

My husband would agree with you 100%. He is also a lifelong SW fan and was completely let down by the series after Disney took over. I agree with you that Disney was probably expecting a lot more crossover SW/Disney fans than they ended up getting & the result is fewer people clamoring to get into Batuu.
 
Yep... for comparison I booked CBR this February 2019 for $180/night and then I got a discount added a little while later which decreased some nights a lot so that my average per night ended up being $155/night.... I think $180/night is a fair price for those current rooms condition. $300 is nutso. But I guess people must be paying it.
I'm sure people are paying rack rate because they don't know any better. I would never pay over $200 a night for a moderate honestly. We haven't booked direct with disney in about 4 years because we've found renting dvc points, booking agent exclusive deals, or booking through priceline much cheaper.

We were booked at a standard room at CSR for a week this August, it was $1,128.95 total. I rolled the dice on a Priceline Express deal after digging around on these boards for it and got it, it was a preferred room for $761.10 total. I quickly cancelled my Disney booking and pocketed my $367 refund. But I'm one of those people who won't stop looking for a good deal. I've switched resorts at 5 days out before.
 
I'm sure people are paying rack rate because they don't know any better. I would never pay over $200 a night for a moderate honestly. We haven't booked direct with disney in about 4 years because we've found renting dvc points, booking agent exclusive deals, or booking through priceline much cheaper.

We were booked at a standard room at CSR for a week this August, it was $1,128.95 total. I rolled the dice on a Priceline Express deal after digging around on these boards for it and got it, it was a preferred room for $761.10 total. I quickly cancelled my Disney booking and pocketed my $367 refund. But I'm one of those people who won't stop looking for a good deal. I've switched resorts at 5 days out before.

I'm one of those deal-finders too... I try not to get married to any particular hotel just in case something better comes up. Unfortunately, I went and had 3 kids so a lot of the really smoking deals like the Hotwire and Priceline 'blind' deals I can't participate in because there's a lot of places we don't fit. And on top of that, by the time we are ready to go again (2022), 2 out of 3 of them I will have to buy 'adult' park tickets for.... ahhhh. Kids. :P
 
I am a big Disney fan. For a few years I was going 2-3 times a year. Then the prices started to increase and the frequency of the trips dropped, then the length of stay dropped. I went 3 times this year and I am done for a while. I went to WDW in April for a week. We could only afford 3 days of park tickets. We have 7 kids so tickets alone were $2800 for 3 days and I bought them on the old system knowing the new system would jack up the prices, which it did.

We did resort hopping and Disney Springs the other days we were there. We still had fun but it was packed. The quality of the food for the prices was not worth it. I paid $420 for cold, crappy food at Chef Mickey's. I know it's not the best place but the kids wanted to go so we went. But, the last time I went to breakfast the food was better. It should at least be warm at 9am.

I just came back from DL this past weekend. That was just me and the wife as the kids were with their other parents (we are divorced and remarried). I still love DL. I have my thoughts though on why I won't be going back any time soon.

It isn't the price. Yes, the price has gotten out of control but Disney was always pricey, I just never cared before because the value was there for me. It is no longer there. The monorail at WDW is a disgrace. Taking away the night parade at MK is not acceptable to me. The overall service level at WDW has dropped since Eisner was running the show. Now the place is infested with college program kids used to save money but they have no ties to the place. It's a job to them. The service between WDW and DL is night and day. DL is old time Disney service. Every CM is came across last weekend was excellent from ticket booth, to entrance gate, to custodial.

Iger has done a lot of good for the company. His purchases has set the company up for tremendous financial stability for years to come if managed properly. But, he has also turned Disney from the "magical" place it once was into a corporate America feel, to me at least. This brings me to Star Wars/GE. I saw it for the first time this weekend in person. What imagineering did with it was amazing. As someone else described, it would be a beautiful movie set. That's an excellent way to put it. It was great to look at but to me it had no feeling. I was sitting in Cars land thinking, this FEELS like Disney. I have never seen Cars and I love Star Wars and I would rather hang at Cars land than GE. I think it has that magical feeling that Disney is famous for. GE felt like it was built with selling stuff in mind and they threw the Falcon in the back to get people to have to walk by all the over-priced merch to see it.

The Falcon looks amazing. They did a great job. I think the ride itself was a glorified Star Tours. I won't ever go on that ride again, it was boring and poorly done to me.

I think the biggest miss was the fact there is no tie to the original trilogy. How R2D2 and C3PO aren't somewhere in that land is beyond me. If they are, I missed it. If it were me I would have been heavy on the original trilogy. Think about everything that has been said here. They are marketing to upper middle and upper class now with their prices. Who has money to afford Disney now, the 40+ age group, who all grew up with the original trilogy. I am one of them. I left that land thinking, I am not spending $200 for a light saber, $100 for a droid, and $85 for a beer flight. Smuggler's run was boring. So I am not buying something, the ride was boring, why do I need to go back to this land, unless RotR is amazing. I don't. I can look at my pictures if I want to see the scenery again.

Personally, I am pissed that the blacked out the AP holders in DL and I am not even one of them. We have heard about this land. At HS 1/2 the park was useless for 2 years and you reward your most loyal fan base with black outs on the land, forcing them to buy another ticket if they want to see it? What a slap in the face.

I am also tired of hearing how they are screwing the front line cast members on wages. Some of these people can't afford to live off their pay. A bus driver at WDW makes less than $9/hr, at least they did the last time I looked as Disney posts the wages in their job postings. Yet, Iger is happy to report the record profits and accept his $45 million in bonus. Disney isn't hurting. Pay the people. In FL these people are in intense heat the majority of the year and dealing with masses of people. If you aren't putting the resources into the monorail and things like that, at least pay the people that deal with your customers.

We have moved away from Walt's vision. He wanted a place for families to go and hang out together. He wanted it to be clean, safe, and believed in "plussing" the experience whenever possible. Well, it's not always clean (WDW anyway, DL is spotless-and I was a WDW lover until my first trip to DL last year). The monorail is a death trap so that's not safe, and they are stripping away the pluses. The "extra" stuff is what made me willing to spend more. If they are being taken away, and the price is going up, what's the draw now? I get to wait in longer lines for rides? Oh gee, let me spend more for that please?

I will be back at some point, I love Disney. I won't be back to WDW until the monorail is replaced and the parade is back at night. If it never happens so be it. When I need to go back I am perfectly happy making it to DL as that is still Walt's park. You can feel the difference out there for sure. The value may not be what it once was, but it is higher at DL than WDW in my opinion. There are so many places out there I haven't seen that are also willing to accept my vacation dollars. Until Disney wants to start adding back the value, I will be spending it with other places.
 
I have to wonder if the land would have drawn more if they went back to the original films? I am not too hip on the SW scene, but it seems to me that the one's who would be willing to pay for trip to WDW specifically for SW would be the die hard fans of the original trilogy. The new movies may be popular, but it would take a HUGE fan to spend several thousand on a vacation they otherwise would not have taken.
 
I agree with all of this. I will say that from my own personal experience as a Star Wars fan that there is a general disdain against Disney owning Star Wars and that there is less of a crossover than one might think. I have always been more of a Disney Parks fan than I am a Star Wars fan so if you put one of my favorite IPs in a theme park that I already visit of course I am going to go there (though I will say I found it underwhelming and not worth the hype personally). On the other hand, you have Star Wars fans who have never visited a Disney Parks and now with the hatred for Disney post TLJ no amount of marketing would convince that demographic to set foot there - especially with it being set in ST era.

Quite frankly, the ST haters can stay home, as far as I'm concerned. There's something in SW for everyone and no one is trying to force anyone to like all of it if they don't want to. It's ridiculous the amount of time some folks invest in hating on the newer SW stuff since Disney acquired LF and it's pathetic. When the PT came out, I was nowhere near a SW fan and remember the disgruntled folks back in 1999. There was no social media then for them to get out their attitude, but it was a thing then, too.

What they've misjudged, if anything, is that SW fans are fickle and hard to please.

However, their SW stories are still making them money, so there is a large audience that's still more than interested.
 
Quite frankly, the ST haters can stay home, as far as I'm concerned. There's something in SW for everyone and no one is trying to force anyone to like all of it if they don't want to. It's ridiculous the amount of time some folks invest in hating on the newer SW stuff since Disney acquired LF and it's pathetic. When the PT came out, I was nowhere near a SW fan and remember the disgruntled folks back in 1999. There was no social media then for them to get out their attitude, but it was a thing then, too.

What they've misjudged, if anything, is that SW fans are fickle and hard to please.

However, their SW stories are still making them money, so there is a large audience that's still more than interested.
Well, that audience hasn't showed up at the parks so far.

The older fans didn't really turn on The Force Awakens. Most of them will tell you it was a really good movie. It is probably my third favorite of all the Star War films. The older fans turned on the new stuff with The Last Jedi. The Last Jedi was a bad movie. Not only was it a bad movie, it feels at times like it was made with an intent to pi** off the fans of the originals. Lucas might have lost his touch with the prequels (The Revenge of the Sith excluded), but at least it didn't feel like he was trying to anger the fans.
 
The Last Jedi was a bad movie. Not only was it a bad movie, it feels at times like it was made with an intent to pi** off the fans of the originals. Lucas might have lost his touch with the prequels (The Revenge of the Sith excluded), but at least it didn't feel like he was trying to anger the fans.

Not sure this is the thread for it but this is where I get a bone to pick. I'm okay with people not liking The Last Jedi. I didn't like the prequels myself. The way TLJ challenged Star Wars tropes and turned them on their heads isn't for everyone, and that's totally okay. I listen to what people say they didn't like about it, and sometimes I understand where they're coming from. Trying to call it "a bad movie" though is ridiculous.

If TFA erred too close to imitating ANH, TLJ took the opposite tack and erred on the side of breaking the cycle. It was conscious, deliberate, and the film did exactly what it set out to do, even if it's not everyone's cup of tea.

And yes, I'm an "old school" Star Wars fan too. The people who dislike TLJ don't get a monopoly on "OG fan" status.
 
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