Everything Is More Expensive

I feel like we are at a breaking point and we will enter a recession soon in order for things to level back out. The current climate feels very much like 2007.
I can't disagree, but I will add with all of the Government mandates on employers it's gong to cause a lot more business owners to throw their hands up and walk away from it. At least in my State I think we're hitting the tipping point of where people think that every business has endless cash to pay for health care, time off, FMLA, and on and on.
 
But apparently people are saving less , so it isn't avice anymore, it is reality. 1960-70 people saved about 10% of their income. Now it is about 3%. IMHO some of the reduction is by choice, not by necessity.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/once-again-americans-are-not-saving-enough-2018-08-28

Maybe because of people putting money into their 401k,ira etc. if I wasn’t putting 17 percent in my 401k I could put the 10 percent into my savings. Because of 401k I cannot.
 
Maybe because of people putting money into their 401k,ira etc. if I wasn’t putting 17 percent in my 401k I could put the 10 percent into my savings. Because of 401k I cannot.

Interesting point. I wonder if they include IRA and 401k savings as savings? I mean, I would think so, savings would be savings.
 
Maybe because of people putting money into their 401k,ira etc. if I wasn’t putting 17 percent in my 401k I could put the 10 percent into my savings. Because of 401k I cannot.
According to this article only 55% of the American workforce has access to a 401k, and of them, only 38% actually participate. https://www.financialsamurai.com/the-401k-participation-rate/

I think people just plain don't save, it isn't a priority for them. I know some of my nieces and nephews just think it's normal to have debt and make payments, it's just how the world is now Auntie Runwad, they say:sad2:.

And of course, there are others who don't make enough to save, as they need what little they do make to live.
 


I think people just plain don't save, it isn't a priority for them.
Agreed, it really wasn't taught to them in school and their parents never passed it along. The story below says that Mean retirement savings of families between 56 and 61: $163,577 that is a scary number, worse yet the Median retirement savings of families between 56 and 61: $17,000. It used to be that when a couple retired their house was paid off and they were debt free, but you're right that is not the norm anymore. Just more reliance on the Government and a lack of personal responsibility :(

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/23/how...etirement-savings-and-how-much-they-need.html
 
But apparently people are saving less
Wage stagnation explains much of that. Since the Recession of 1969–1970, almost every bit of prosperity (when wage growth exceed inflation) has been countered by decline (when inflation exceeds wage growth).

fredgraph.png


So while our economy (and our lives, really) have been structured around this expectation that we're living in a prosperous country - an expectation that would otherwise be reasonable based on data prior to the Recession of 1969–1970 - we spend money like we're living in a prosperous country. What's worse, most of the younger workers grew up in the longest period of prosperity the country experienced since 1969 - the seven years between 1994 and 2001. That has got to foster even more impetus to spend money.

1960-70 people saved about 10% of their income. Now it is about 3%.
I don't believe it is that low.

fredgraph.png

Who knows where Marketwatch got their number. Maybe the author read the data wrong? Let's say the savings rate has declined to roughly 6%.

Maybe because of people putting money into their 401k,ira etc. if I wasn’t putting 17 percent in my 401k I could put the 10 percent into my savings. Because of 401k I cannot.
Money saved in a 401k is reflected in the Savings Rate.
 
We have been in survival mode since our first set of twins were born in 1996. Each time we didn't know we were having 2. After the second time, we stopped! ha! But, you can't really understand what two at a time does to you financially. At first, it was just the fact that I could not work. 2 or 4 in daycare is more than a salary. Eventually we worked opposite shifts and that made life easier.
But fast forward to 13 years to 23 years old, this is where I knew it would hit us! Insurance, vehicles, activities and school.

Activities have went crazy! I only allowed them 1 each but my daughter's volleyball club was $1700/year! And that was one of the very cheapest! My parents would not have done it for me. We did it because her high school sports was horrible and it kept her busy and moving (not on her phone).

The two things I see destroying the middle class is insurance and taxes. Those two things you can not control. If times get hard, I can double up on gardening and turn off the AC. But, property taxes are doubling in many places. State taxes in Georgia eat you alive. Federal taxes with us both working make me wonder if it is worth a double income?

Insurance is eating us up to. We pay our part in the health, carry better dental, added vision, homeowners and auto insurance. All together those add up to around $1500/mo for us. I have 6 drivers.

My husband and I share a 2003 truck. I am a home based federal employee so I can go without usually til he gets home.

We are going to Disney this year. It will be high. We could not do it if I didn't find ways to pay for it. Plasma donations for our tickets. Shopkicks and Swagbucks for Disney cards to eat and extras. VRBO shared house with my sister's family. Plus money into savings.

I just figured by the time we hit our point in salaries by now we could lean back and enjoy not stressing. But nope! we feel just as tight! May be someday!
 


Wage stagnation explains much of that. Since the Recession of 1969–1970, almost every bit of prosperity (when wage growth exceed inflation) has been countered by decline (when inflation exceeds wage growth).

fredgraph.png


So while our economy (and our lives, really) have been structured around this expectation that we're living in a prosperous country - an expectation that would otherwise be reasonable based on data prior to the Recession of 1969–1970 - we spend money like we're living in a prosperous country. What's worse, most of the younger workers grew up in the longest period of prosperity the country experienced since 1969 - the seven years between 1994 and 2001. That has got to foster even more impetus to spend money.

I don't believe it is that low.

fredgraph.png

Who knows where Marketwatch got their number. Maybe the author read the data wrong? Let's say the savings rate has declined to roughly 6%.

Money saved in a 401k is reflected in the Savings Rate.

I think where you are in your life is a huge factor too. My kids are on their own, so no tuition, food, gas, auto insurance, medical insurance. House paid off. I did buy a new car last year and I have a 5 year auto loan, but I hope to pay it off much sooner. We hope to retire next year, but we won't if we have a car payment.
 
It’s the willingness of folks to take on debt that allows retailers to sell their high priced goods for more.

As for taxes I would welcome higher taxes to have universal healthcare in the US. Healthcare costs are out of control. It’s my one big unknown each year. How much more will I have to pay for healthcare?

Between rising healthcare costs and the willingness of others to take on debt, the costs of our goods and services have gone through the roof. Then add in the elimination of pensions for 401Ks, and now you have a population that isn’t adequately prepared for retirement.

It’s a sad state of affairs.
 
We have been in survival mode since our first set of twins were born in 1996. Each time we didn't know we were having 2. After the second time, we stopped! ha! But, you can't really understand what two at a time does to you financially. At first, it was just the fact that I could not work. 2 or 4 in daycare is more than a salary. Eventually we worked opposite shifts and that made life easier.
But fast forward to 13 years to 23 years old, this is where I knew it would hit us! Insurance, vehicles, activities and school.

Activities have went crazy! I only allowed them 1 each but my daughter's volleyball club was $1700/year! And that was one of the very cheapest! My parents would not have done it for me. We did it because her high school sports was horrible and it kept her busy and moving (not on her phone).

The two things I see destroying the middle class is insurance and taxes. Those two things you can not control. If times get hard, I can double up on gardening and turn off the AC. But, property taxes are doubling in many places. State taxes in Georgia eat you alive. Federal taxes with us both working make me wonder if it is worth a double income?

Insurance is eating us up to. We pay our part in the health, carry better dental, added vision, homeowners and auto insurance. All together those add up to around $1500/mo for us. I have 6 drivers.

My husband and I share a 2003 truck. I am a home based federal employee so I can go without usually til he gets home.

We are going to Disney this year. It will be high. We could not do it if I didn't find ways to pay for it. Plasma donations for our tickets. Shopkicks and Swagbucks for Disney cards to eat and extras. VRBO shared house with my sister's family. Plus money into savings.

I just figured by the time we hit our point in salaries by now we could lean back and enjoy not stressing. But nope! we feel just as tight! May be someday!
I work with many people who pay for more insurance on top of what you just listed. My dear old aunt once cautioned me against being insurance poor when I wondered if I needed renters insurance. Seriously, all my furniture was second hand and nothing was irreplaceable. In the 80s we didn't have all of our electronics or any of that stuff. That bit of advice stuck with me all my life. I don't pay for extra disability insurance, cancer insurance, or any of that other stuff they peddle at my work. I feel like you, the necessary required insurance is plenty and makes me want to gag.
 
Luckily, they are a "toy" that really holds its value. You can keep them forever. My husband has one Star Wars minifigure that is worth a few hundred dollars. ONE FIGURE! It's nuts. In fact, Lego has been a better investment than anything else for people who purchased and sat on unopened sets. People have made better returns on those than any other investment vehicle. I read an article about that recently.

It was even better 20 years ago before people started realizing how well they keep their value. ;) I bought $300.00 worth of used Lego (which resulted in enough boxes to fill the trunk and backseat of my car at the time) in 1998. Sold enough to get my back my $300.00 immediately. Then continued to sell them off, set by set (Which I had to put together first to ensure all of the pieces were there.) until I had paid for our entire wedding with Lego profits. Then I stuck the remaining Lego in a closet for a couple years, and when I was pregnant with our first, I sold what was left to purchase everything we'd need for the baby.

Now so many people hang on to Lego products to sell later that the market is flooded with them in comparison to how it was back then. Back then buyers were fighting to get the limited amount of Lego listed on ebay. Ahhh, the good ol' days. ;) Now my kids yell at me for selling off all of that Lego, LOL!
 
Changing our behaviors and expectations.
Yes! Many people nowadays live sooo differently than the previous generation. My parents had one car and it was 15 years old. They didn't have cellphone plans or $200 cable bills. They didn't take $5000 trips to Disney World, pay for lawn and cleaning services, manicures, massages, $5 cups of coffee or designer purses. They didn't put us kids in expensive camps or extracurriculars and they certainly wouldn't have bought us $100 Legos. They were savers and didn't spend more than they made. I think we can learn a lot from their frugality. So many in this generation want everything everyone else has, but want to complain when they have to pay for it and are living paycheck to paycheck. Incomes are higher now than ever but spending is way above inflation in terms of salary. I don't want to generalize, but I think we've created a generation that can't say no to anything and think they are entitled to everything whether they can afford it or not. There's another thread on these boards about who takes trips they can't afford and that answer would be obvious to previous generations. A lot of this overspending came along with credit cards. In my parents' day if they couldn't afford to pay cash for a vacation or new furniture then they didn't buy it. Anyone remember Christmas and vacation savings clubs at the bank lol? I think this country would be in a lot better shape fiscally if we went back to that mindset even if just a little bit!
 
To answer the OP...we also deal with it with patience. We take a long time to save up for things we don't need or don't immediately need. We buy secondhand in some areas. We make or do ourselves when possible. (A biggie is that we cook our own meals all of the time. We eat out so, so rarely. And we order in very rarely as well. DH takes left-overs to work to avoid buying food each day for lunch or snack.)

We have moved away from impulse purchases for the kids...even little ones. We were bad with that for awhile. We were dropping a lot of money and just tons of little stupid stuff. It was so easy to always say "yes" to the $1 or $2 or $3 purchases. But multiply that by each kid and by every place we went and it added up fast!!

Now I say: "You want a snack every time we go to a store? You have your allowance, feel free to spend it on an overpriced pack of junk food. Want to save your money for something better? Then eat fruit. I pay for that." :D

"You want glowy necklaces at the 4th of July fireworks? Buy them at the dollar store and bring them with you or fork over your own allowance for the over-priced ones at the event."

Even Disney souvenirs.....my kids are old enough to be told that they are going to buy all souvenirs themselves. A year and a half out the kids started putting one dollar from their weekly allowance aside, so that by the time we go on our trip, they're guaranteed to each have $78. They know they want interactive wands at Universal, so that will at least cover the wands and one other small item. Then they can add anything else they save if they want.

We also do without a lot of stuff. One of my very biggest pet peeves is when someone says to us "Oh, it must be nice." in regards to something we do. I find it infuriating because they are looking at one thing in our lives and not taking into account all of the work and sacrifice that goes into making that one thing possible. And I know that if they had to give up or do all that we do in order to make that one thing possible, they'd not think it was "nice" at all. And in terms of purchases or trips, they wouldn't want to wait as long as we do to get them either.
 
A recession in Seattle would be welcomed by many residents. It would give us some breathing room from constant construction and tower cranes every direction that you look. Government is trying to spread out the economic growth to other cities in the region but the acceleration of companies moving into the city has accelerated.
 
I work with many people who pay for more insurance on top of what you just listed. My dear old aunt once cautioned me against being insurance poor when I wondered if I needed renters insurance. Seriously, all my furniture was second hand and nothing was irreplaceable. In the 80s we didn't have all of our electronics or any of that stuff. That bit of advice stuck with me all my life. I don't pay for extra disability insurance, cancer insurance, or any of that other stuff they peddle at my work. I feel like you, the necessary required insurance is plenty and makes me want to gag.

in the late 80's my renters insurance was less than $40 per year with a $100 deductible (for replacement value not depreciated), dd currently pays about $200 per year for the same. sure, i didn't own allot of pricey electronics/new furnishings but when i looked to what a thief would likely pick up and walk off with (tv, vcr, microwave at minimum) it would have taken several years of premiums and deductibles to replace them, much more so with dd's place. also had a friend whose apartment burned down in a freak fire-granted none of his stuff was brand new to begin with but he didn't have the resources to immediately replace (and no means for temporary housing while finding a new place-which both my old/dd's current policies provide for).

on the 'extras'-i don't think anyone should be insurance poor if they have the means and a choice in the matter (we pay more than the poster you quoted for half the number of drivers and 1/2 the number of people on health insurance which is the exorbitant portion i can't control/pick and choose on) i've always felt that it was worth paying out a bit more for some optional stuff/higher coverage levels 'just in case' b/c i never wanted myself, dh or my kids in financial peril b/c of an unexpected event like i've seen happen to others, and then myself. way too many of the people walking in and applying to me for public assistance had lived even a few months prior what most would consider a solid middle class lifestyles but all it took was one spouse's/partner's major illness/disability or death for everything to be wiped out. w/o the wage earning parent the sahp can't be providing childcare so while they may find they can get a job to replace in whole/part the lost income-their expenses have gone UP b/c of childcare (and if the wage earner needs in home care they can't be employed and providing it at the same time), if you have the minimum coverage your state requires for auto insurance but you cause even a minor accident that exceeds your coverage by a hundred thousand or so-unless you've got that in the bank to hand over to the injured party then you can bet they will go after every assert you own in whole or part (and force the sale of your home to collect).

so many of the 'go fund me' appeals i see are items of need that could have easily been provided for by virtue of the person in need paying less than $100 per month in optional insurance premiums/to their employee benefit's division. granted, not everyone can afford that extra $100 but if there's the ability to pick and choose some wants to spend money on in the household this is a high priority want in ours.
 
A recession in Seattle would be welcomed by many residents. It would give us some breathing room from constant construction and tower cranes every direction that you look. Government is trying to spread out the economic growth to other cities in the region but the acceleration of companies moving into the city has accelerated.

seattle's growth is impacting cities OUTSIDE the region-and to an extent, we don't like it either. our rental market is insane and one of the factors being cited is seattle based companies that allow people to telecommute for the bulk of their work. the cost of living is cheaper over here on the eastern side of the state so we've gotten droves of people who get hired on the west side, locate here on the east side and have gobbled up all the housing. we've traditionally been a stable housing market but the influx of higher than our region earners has turned the sales market nuts, not enough for sale homes throws them into the rental market and it can't keep up. people are seriously freaked out about the impact of the opening of the new amazon distribution center in our backyard and how it's 2000+ new hires will impact an already overwhelmed housing market.
 
The problem with the insurance discussion is that you need some to keep yourself from wiping out your savings. This is especially true of healthcare insurance. You might think you’re saving money by getting a high deductible, but if a major accident happens, it can wipe out a good chunk of savings.
 
seattle's growth is impacting cities OUTSIDE the region-and to an extent, we don't like it either. our rental market is insane and one of the factors being cited is seattle based companies that allow people to telecommute for the bulk of their work. the cost of living is cheaper over here on the eastern side of the state so we've gotten droves of people who get hired on the west side, locate here on the east side and have gobbled up all the housing. we've traditionally been a stable housing market but the influx of higher than our region earners has turned the sales market nuts, not enough for sale homes throws them into the rental market and it can't keep up. people are seriously freaked out about the impact of the opening of the new amazon distribution center in our backyard and how it's 2000+ new hires will impact an already overwhelmed housing market.

What’s the point of making more money if it all goes into real estate?
 
Yes! Many people nowadays live sooo differently than the previous generation. My parents had one car and it was 15 years old. They didn't have cellphone plans or $200 cable bills. They didn't take $5000 trips to Disney World, pay for lawn and cleaning services, manicures, massages, $5 cups of coffee or designer purses. They didn't put us kids in expensive camps or extracurriculars and they certainly wouldn't have bought us $100 Legos. They were savers and didn't spend more than they made. I think we can learn a lot from their frugality. So many in this generation want everything everyone else has, but want to complain when they have to pay for it and are living paycheck to paycheck. Incomes are higher now than ever but spending is way above inflation in terms of salary. I don't want to generalize, but I think we've created a generation that can't say no to anything and think they are entitled to everything whether they can afford it or not. There's another thread on these boards about who takes trips they can't afford and that answer would be obvious to previous generations. A lot of this overspending came along with credit cards. In my parents' day if they couldn't afford to pay cash for a vacation or new furniture then they didn't buy it. Anyone remember Christmas and vacation savings clubs at the bank lol? I think this country would be in a lot better shape fiscally if we went back to that mindset even if just a little bit!
I'm not sure how old you are, but my parents had two cars because they were a dual income household with jobs an hour apart from each other. Cell phones are now needed for a lot of jobs. With childcare costs astronomical and dual income households, cell phone plans for older kids are often needed when they need to take themselves to school, friends houses, and after school activities.

Honestly I get really bugged about comparing the cost savings lifestyles of a generation+ ago to the current generation. We aren't living in the same world. While single income households certainly still exist, it's not sustainable for many households - so being "frugle" with expenses that one generation might have seen as unnecessary is a requirement for another to get by.

It's one thing to be living lavishly and outside your income and another entirely to say a generation was more frugal because they had one car. No, the difference is the they may not have needed more than one car. My household certainly needs more than one car to just make sure we have more than one income.

Incomes may be higher than ever, but so are goods, real estate, education, and child care.
 

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