Your insights on your past performances are solid, but I've bolded a few lines which really stand out to me. Your experiences don't sound that dissimilar to my own or any other serious runners I know - when a race is going badly and I know my goal is pretty much out of reach, the wheels definitely come off in a big way, and my running friends have experienced the same sort of plummeting drop in motivation. No one's going to kill themselves out there to run something like their 8th fastest marathon. It's just not worth it for most of us. We see the same sort of thing with the elites. They have an astonishingly high DNF rate (66% this year in Boston's miserable weather) when they know they aren't have a good day. Part of it is of course preservation of their bodies for the next race, but I think that's only part of it. Surely their motivation is gone as well.
All sounds about right to me.
In your situation, I worry that blind pacing could rob you of the extra motivation of knowing you're on pace and closer to hitting your goal. I know I definitely need that motivation, and can't imagine running successfully without it. As for losing motivation when things are going poorly, that doesn't bother me so much. I try to start a race being at peace with the fact I could miss my goal (which I've certainly done), and that's just part of the risk of setting a worthy goal. Besides, if I'm absolutely suffering out there and I'm still off A goal pace, I'd rather just know now so I can back off and change my goal from A goal to B or C goal, or to just finish. There's no point in suffering unnecessarily, and a few times when I missed A goal I was still able to make B or C goals because I backed off soon enough to control the fade.
It's definitely possible. I do know with 100% certainty in my mind that if I had run the 2018 Disney Marathon as a solo event I would have broken 3 hours. No doubt in my mind about that. Even in the moment, the thought had crossed my mind. I had an outstanding training cycle. The weather conditions were seemingly near perfect. So it seemed like a perfect chance to nail a perfect race. But I ended up opting for the choice of racing all 4 races as was my intention when I arrived there. I didn't want to risk the chance I didn't break 3 hours on the possibility of not getting that 5th Dopey. So I went with the safer choice. Now, that was in my mind a safe decision because I was going to run a sub-2:52 in Chicago. But it didn't play out that way. I got injured right after Dopey. In July I got a glimpse of the same pre-Dopey fitness. And then in August, injured again. So if someone would have told me that I would have spent nearly the entire 2018 year marred by injuries, then I probably would have skipped the other Dopey races and just done the marathon for a sub-3 attempt. But it's a matter of retrospect and I can't change the past.
As for losing motivation when things are going poorly, that doesn't bother me so much.
And that's what does bother me. I haven't been able to shake that yet. I put in a tremendous amount of training specifically for a certain purpose. So when things go bad, they bother me immensely. I tried doing more races so I had more opportunities. But then I would just bag on races early because "I had another chance coming up" or at least I would mentally. So I haven't quite nailed down that perfect balance yet, other than doing blind racing so I can't lose motivation (but then conversely can't gain more motivation).
My youngest brother also struggled with mental barriers. Despite having a half PR of 1:35, he always struggled in the full and experienced significant fades. His marathon PR was only 3:45, which he knew was not his full potential and didn't correlate with his half time at all. When he decided to try for a BQ (sub-3:15 for him), he hired a coach who not only prepared him well, but also ran his target marathon with him, and talked him through his mental struggles late in the race. He ultimately ran a 3:07, a huge PR, and he's convinced he could not have done it without the coach running beside him to talk through the race. I don't know how true that is, but the result speak for itself. Mental hurdles are common to athletes and when we find ways to overcome them, the results can be huge.
Yea, and this was definitely the plan with Mike. A good training cycle, and then someone I knew and trusted that was faster than me. There to provide that mental support to overcome the late stages of the race. But 2018 happened, and thus the plan wasn't executed.
Your future plans following Chicago sound good, especially focusing on shorter distances like the half. I'd only add, if you can, to throw in a marathon or two next year as a non-target race. The endurance training is of course going to be beneficial and being in the marathon environment without the pre-race anxiety of having solid goals might be a good thing mentally. I'm thinking about what you said regarding your heart rate while waiting in the corral at Chicago, and how much lower it was then, versus other target marathons you've run. I've certainly benefited from running marathons and other events with no goal other than finish and have fun. Anyway, that's just my 2 cents. Hope your recovery goes well!
That's tough for me to wrap my arms around. The marathon from a physical standpoint takes a huge toll on the body. At this point in my racing, I can't comprehend tackling the distance without a target goal when healthy. Just from the sheer recovery standpoint before training for a target race can resume again. I mean I get that's what I just did - a marathon without a time goal. But for me, that's because I wasn't healthy going into the race.
As for the HR, out of curiosity I looked back at HR right before the race started:
2018 Chicago - 52 bpm
2018 Madison Mini - 84 bpm
2018 Hot2Trot - 104 bpm
2018 Disney Marathon - 46 bpm
2018 Disney HM - 57 bpm
2018 Disney 10k - 62 bpm
2018 Disney 5k - 58 bpm
2017 Milwaukee 10k - 69 bpm
2017 Lakefront Marathon - 90 bpm
The races where I had a set goal (2017 Lake, 2018 Hot2Trot, and 2018 Madison Mini) seem to be clear outliers. But the races where I was just going to take what the race gave me (2018 Disney and 2018 Chicago) I've got a much lower HR.
It's all definitely something to think about as time moves forward and I try to come up with a new post-Chicago game plan.
I heard miles 23/24 are considered the wall. I wonder how everyone trains for the marathon mentally. It sounds like it's almost as tough mentally as it is physically.
The wall can definitely come sooner or not at all. I've had a "wall" like feeling as soon as mile 9. But like this past marathon not experience it until Mile 22.5 Most of the time, the race seems to change for me around mile 19-20. But even in my best negative split race (Lakefront 2015) I was hitting a 5k PR from Mile 19-22. So physically, that wall could come at any time and a lot of it has to do with pacing. Because pacing dictates the rate of fatigue. And pacing dictates the rate of glycogen consumption.
Honestly, if you do the training then the physical aspect is there. But come late in the marathon, the key aspect that'll separate the good day from the great day is the mental aspect. Can you fight through that physical pain that's unlike any training run? Can you stay positive through the several obstacles that will be thrown in your path?
For the mental aspect, I give the following advice:
Stay motivated. Stay positive. Smile.
If you can do those three things, then you've more than won the mental edge battle. It's when you lose motivation, become negative, or lose the smile that things have a tendency to slip away. So to mentally prepare, do these same tricks in training.
For me personally, it's why I went to a blind method of running. I tended to lose motivation, become negative, and stop smiling based on the splits. While the results of the race may not be at peak, it's made my racing situation more pleasant than it was back in the days of meticulously watching the splits. But I'm hardly an expert on mental marathon games since I've had to create a trick to alleviate myself from that problem.
Congrats Billy! Enjoyed reading the recap and it seems it was a weekend full of Disers which is always great. Someday soon I’ll run Chicago.
Thanks! It was a great race and great to see everyone as well. Highly recommend Chicago since it's such an easy trip for us in WI.
The "wall" is much more a function of pace than it is of distance. Plenty of marathoners here and elsewhere have run slow (for them) marathons and never experienced the wall. With good training and proper pacing, it's certainly possible to run a full marathon and stay in your comfort zone the whole time. If you're looking to race a marathon to your full potential, you're going to hit the wall at some point, which is why pacing is so important. Hit the wall too soon and it's probably going to be a rough day.
Absolutely. There's either the glycogen depletion wall or the fatigue wall. But if you pace things appropriately then there's no reason you have to hit either wall.
That makes me feel better. While I know billy’s plans are about feeling good at the finish, I feel a bit bad that I definitely can’t say that. BUT I was not trying to finish I was racing. To be honest if I had felt good at the finish I might have thought I did not push enough. I feel like I did the very best I could that day and left everything out there. I was trying to BQ and wanted as much cushion as possible. I am pretty hopeful I made it, but at least I can say I gave it everything. No regrets.
BTW, just back from my yoga session. It was something I started doing with this training cycle. Once a week yin yoga on Wednesday. It seemed to help. I definitely feel better now.
Yea, I definitely don't want to sell that you'll always feel good after finishing the marathon especially one you race as close to peak performance as possible. Those are going to hurt physically. But it'll be worth it, as it was in this case. For me personally, I know I ran a good race when I see a tiny U-shaped curve in the race. I want to see the tiniest slowdown in pace at the end of the race because then I know I likely truly gave it all. But I don't want to see that U-shape curve start too soon. So for some races it occurs late. But other races much too soon.
You may need to remind me to address this with you next week including my thoughts on briefly running with a pace group during Dark Side. I did that as a test for a possible attempt at the marathon.
I'm in survival mode right now due to a massive work deadline coming on Monday.
Sounds good.
That's the way you should feel at the end of a marathon you race - like you left everything you had out on the road, and you have no regrets about the performance. Hopefully, you feel good about the result, but it's unlikely you're going to feel good about the effort involved! If you gave everything you had, it's going to be uncomfortable. If you look closely at the men's finish in Chicago, 2nd place (Bayih) collapsed just after crossing the line! He was probably absolutely exhausted at that point and had left it all out on the road.
Agreed.