Another Shooting, Nashville

[luvsJack]

You're right. It mentions the difference between injuries from hand guns and from AR-15s. I think the argument that was made to keep AR-15s around because the "bad guy" will just find something else doesn't hold water. The damage left behind from an AR-15 is far worse than a hand gun and that is one of the reasons it is used in situations like this shooting.

Do you believe their only choices are AR 15s and hand guns?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

First off, people hunt with AR15s all the time. The reason why is because it's not a machine gun. You trying to equate it to a machine gun does not suddenly make it one. An AR15 is semi-auto. There is no such thing as a semi-auto machine gun. The AR15 does not fire any faster than your finger can pull the trigger, same as any other semi-auto gun. Bump stocks are already in the process of being banned.

AR15s are not designed to fire off more rounds or have faster reloads than any other semi-automatic weapon, whether it be a semi-auto shotgun, handgun, hunting rifle, or AR15. Someone shooting any of these weapons can fire off rounds at the same exact speed.

It's as simple as this. Kids spend 16 years in a vehicle with their parents while their parents drive, yet the kids don't know how to drive until they go through the classes and practice for themselves. If you don't own an AR15 or understand how it actually operates, which it is clear you do not, then you know as much about ARs as a 16 year old who has never sat in the driver's seat knows about driving.

In regards to fear mongering, it goes on both sides. How about the fear mongering about "assault weapons?" The original definition of "assault weapon" is any weapon with selective fire capability. That definition cannot include AR15s or any other semi-automatic weapon because they do not have selective fire capability. Labelling them incorrectly as assault weapons makes them sound like they are machine guns or something that is used by the military when in reality, they are not. Militaries do not use AR15s. People own AR15s for purposes of hunting, target practice, and protection, same as any other gun.

Fear mongering is right. Rifles - all types combined - are FIFTH on the list of weapons used for homicides behind handguns, knives, hands and feet, and shotguns. Yet, we’re lead to believe a sub-set of the rifle group is the #1 danger to a safe society.

More than twice as many Americans will die from bicycle crashes this year than will be murdered with a rifle (of any kind).

 

[Geoff_M]

Do you go hunting with an assault rifle, they certainly aren't designed for that. A real hunter doesn't go into the woods with a machine gun to shoot a deer. If you don't go hunting with one, what do you need one for.

Ummmm, you may want to tell that to the people at Outdoor Life magazine: https://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/...0-best-semi-automatic-rifles-big-game-hunting

 

[midnightlouise]

I live a couple of miles from where it happened and it was pretty scary with this nutjob rampaging around our neighborhoods. Read today that they revoked bail until the hearing.

 

[luvsJack]

AR-15s designed to fire off more rounds and faster reloads making them better at killing than a rifle and then they do the bump stock thing and they are more or less simjlar to automatic weapons so really nice try. We all know why they were designed as such to kill faster and more people firing more rounds and faster. That's why they are called ASSAULT RIFLES. Do you go hunting with an assault rifle, they certainly aren't designed for that. A real hunter doesn't go into the woods with a machine gun to shoot a deer. If you don't go hunting with one, what do you need one for.

Neither do the hunters that use AR 15s. They are NOT assault rifles and they are NOT machine guns. They hunt with a semi automatic rifle.

If you are going to argue the point, educate yourself. There are some very knowledgeable folks here about these guns. I have asked them about guns and they have all answered very nicely.

 

[UncleMike101]

Neither do the hunters that use AR 15s. They are NOT assault rifles and they are NOT machine guns. They hunt with a semi automatic rifle.

If you are going to argue the point, educate yourself. There are some very knowledgeable folks here about these guns. I have asked them about guns and they have all answered very nicely.

Entirely correct....
The problem is one of perception vs usage.
People who are not firearms oriented are often influenced more by the looks of an object as opposed to the objects functionality and varied capabilities.
The AR 15 is a prime example of something that looks "scary" but is no more, or less, dangerous, or useful, than any other semiautomatic rifle.
All semi automatic rifles share the same basic functioning characteristics in so far as they are operated by the pressure of the fired cartridge on the rear of the bolt face or by bleeding off gas emitted by the cartridge upon firing.
To equate that particular operating system with a greater lethality factor is nonsense.
The cartridge caliber and muzzle velocity are the true factors that determine how much damage is done by a rifle projectile.
In the case of many modern handgun cartridges one must also factor in the bullet design since some have, at reasonable handgun ranges, nearly as much destructive effect on soft tissue as high powered rifle rounds.
The argument that, since the AR 15 can utilize what the uninformed Press call "high capacity magazines" it is inherently more deadly is pure sensationalism.
The thirty round capacity magazine has been the standard since the end of the Viet Nam War and is not considered to be unusual, excessive, or more deadly by firearms experts world wide.
In the case of the Parkland tragedy the shooter did NOT use high capacity magazines but was armed with ten round magazines because the thirty round ones wouldn't fit in his back pack.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article202486304.html
In addition he fell victim to as issue that has plagued semi automatic firearms since their inception.
Apparently the weapon had a cyclic malfunction and the shooter wasn't sufficiently trained to clear the problem and return to shooting.
Thank God......

 

[AquamarineSteph]

Another update:

Funeral dates have been set for two of the four young people killed during the shooting, and Waffle House has offered to pay for all of those funerals.

 

[rajak73]

Yes I do listen to Fox with my mouth hanging open. Many of the same people listen to Alex Jones,

So you listen to Fox news to get agitated at Fox news? Sounds logical. LMAO

First off, people hunt with AR15s all the time. The reason why is because it's not a machine gun. You trying to equate it to a machine gun does not suddenly make it one. An AR15 is semi-auto. There is no such thing as a semi-auto machine gun. The AR15 does not fire any faster than your finger can pull the trigger, same as any other semi-auto gun. Bump stocks are already in the process of being banned.

In regards to fear mongering, it goes on both sides. How about the fear mongering about "assault weapons?" The original definition of "assault weapon" is any weapon with selective fire capability. That definition cannot include AR15s or any other semi-automatic weapon because they do not have selective fire capability. Labelling them incorrectly as assault weapons makes them sound like they are machine guns or something that is used by the military when in reality, they are not. Militaries do not use AR15s. People own AR15s for purposes of hunting, target practice, and protection, same as any other gun.

Don't bring facts into this, it kills the agenda. LOL

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

YOU are the one that continually responds to my threads, and with wrong info to boot. Again just for the record THIS is what this thread is about. It is not conspiracy theories when LaPierre the head of the NRA is saying things to fear monger people to fight intelligent gun control laws. AND buy more gun It is absolutely what this thread is about.

AR-15s designed to fire off more rounds and faster reloads making them better at killing than a rifle and then they do the bump stock thing and they are more or less simjlar to automatic weapons so really nice try. We all know why they were designed as such to kill faster and more people firing more rounds and faster. That's why they are called ASSAULT RIFLES. Do you go hunting with an assault rifle, they certainly aren't designed for that. A real hunter doesn't go into the woods with a machine gun to shoot a deer. If you don't go hunting with one, what do you need one for.

/sigh

Again, AR-15 does not stand for assault rifle. AR means Arma-lite, after the company that developed it in the 50s. [Just like Band-aid doesn't stand for all adhesive bandages, it's the name of the company; Kleenex for tissues; or Xerox for photocopies.] If you are going to try to spout off about guns, try to be knowledgable on what you are talking about.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/assault_weapons_semi-automatic_rifles_and_the_ar-1.html

(video 27 rounds, 3.7 seconds, 1911 pistol)

(video 16 rounds, 4 seconds, S&W 929)

(video 5 shots, .8 seconds, Desert Eagle 50 cal)

(video 23 rounds, 3.73 seconds, Mossberg 930 shotgun)

(video comparison AR15 to Revolver shooting)

 

[cabanafrau]

Sorry long day and draining, I meant you continuously respond to my POSTS not threads. You are right it is not my thread, but you continuously respond to my posts I meant. As far as me talking about LaPierre he is the leader of the NRA and I think I said something about him many weeks back in another thread so I don't know what others you are referring to but I am sure I thought it relevant to the topic. At least I am not talking about copper from light posts in a gun thread hehe. Teasing. This is draining and I had my say and am outta here. Thank you all for taking the time to listen, I hope, to what I had to say even if you don't agree. Or maybe I could have made some think about it a little, that's all I can hope for.

What does this mean? My takeaway is you want to speak your piece and be heard, but you don't wish anyone who has a different viewpoint to speak their piece. On a discussion board people discuss. Blogs are more of a one-sided situation.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

OK, I'll dip in just for kicks...

I may have said this already. With regards to the vasty over-possession of guns in the USA, we can look towards the nasty bout of knife crime in London. In a distressing number of cases in London, carriers of knives cited the fact that EVERYONE ELSE carried a knife as an excuse to bear them themselves. A self-fulfilling prophecy, you could call it. People don't feel safe, so they arm themselves. Whether this is an example of gang warfare or a lack of trust in the police I don't know, but it seems to apply to the USA and guns equally - many armed individuals I am led to understand arm themselves because it's the only way for them to ultimately feel safe.

The reason it is so pervasive in the United States, one of the main reasons that is, as it is a complex issue, is the amount of propaganda continuously filling our airways, TV's, etc. fear mongering "they are coming to get you" or "they are coming to get all your guns" and anytime there is a mass shooting, people like LaPierre (head of NRA) goes on the airways like he just did after the shooting in FL spouting his crazy rhetoric like I put in my other post. The bottom line is MONEY. Also the movies we see and games are filled with violence, again it's about money. Shows like FOX news that spout underlying hate and fear are many people's #1 news show, but the reality is it is an opinion channel, that puts on opinions that pushes their views and special interests like the gun lobby, with small fills of news and it is about making money. The problem now in the US is people cannot differentiate between what is real, what is not real, and lack real info about our history and everything else.

First off, people hunt with AR15s all the time. The reason why is because it's not a machine gun. You trying to equate it to a machine gun does not suddenly make it one. An AR15 is semi-auto. There is no such thing as a semi-auto machine gun. The AR15 does not fire any faster than your finger can pull the trigger, same as any other semi-auto gun. Bump stocks are already in the process of being banned.

It's as simple as this. Kids spend 16 years in a vehicle with their parents while their parents drive, yet the kids don't know how to drive until they go through the classes and practice for themselves. If you don't own an AR15 or understand how it actually operates, which it is clear you do not, then you know as much about ARs as a 16 year old who has never sat in the driver's seat knows about driving.

My father was a shooting instructor in the army, don't tell me what I know and don't know. I know many people including him that own many guns. As far as hunting with one, no real hunter hunts with one. I know many real hunters and honestly many of them use bows and shoot 6 or more point bucks. We have a really really good friend who is an incredible hunter and to say he would go into the woods with an AR 15 to hunt deer is laughable. He actually buries his clothes in the woods for weeks or months to put on bf he hunts lol. He's excellent at it.

 

[Hikergirl]

The reason it is so pervasive in the United States, one of the main reasons that is, as it is a complex issue, is the amount of propaganda continuously filling our airways, TV's, etc. fear mongering "they are coming to get you" or "they are coming to get all your guns" and anytime there is a mass shooting, people like LaPierre (head of NRA) goes on the airways like he just did after the shooting in FL spouting his crazy rhetoric like I put in my other post. The bottom line is MONEY. Also the movies we see and games are filled with violence, again it's about money. Shows like FOX news that spout underlying hate and fear are many people's #1 news show, but the reality is it is an opinion channel, that puts on opinions that pushes their views and special interests like the gun lobby, with small fills of news and it is about making money. The problem now in the US is people cannot differentiate between what is real, what is not real, and lack real info about our history and everything else.



My father was a shooting instructor in the army, don't tell me what I know and don't know. I know many people including him that own many guns. As far as hunting with one, no real hunter hunts with one. I know many real hunters and honestly many of them use bows and 6 or more point bucks. We have a really really good friend who is an incredible hunter and to say he would go into the woods with an AR 15 to hunt deer is laughable.

The irony in that statement is rich

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

/sigh

Again, AR-15 does not stand for assault rifle. AR means Arma-lite, after the company that developed it in the 50s. [Just like Band-aid doesn't stand for all adhesive bandages, it's the name of the company; Kleenex for tissues; or Xerox for photocopies.] If you are going to try to spout off about guns, try to be knowledgable on what you are talking about.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/assault_weapons_semi-automatic_rifles_and_the_ar-1.html

(video 27 rounds, 3.7 seconds, 1911 pistol)

(video 16 rounds, 4 seconds, S&W 929)

(video 5 shots, .8 seconds, Desert Eagle 50 cal)

(video 23 rounds, 3.73 seconds, Mossberg 930 shotgun)

(video comparison AR15 to Revolver shooting)

I never said it stood for assault rifle, I said we call it an assault rifle. My father was a shooting instructor in the army, has and owns many guns that he keeps locked away in a cabinet (as I also believe people that do NOT do this and children get ahold of them also should be held accountable) and even he does not believe AR 15s need to be owned by people. They were meant originally as a weapon of war by original maker of it that is fact and now they have improved and made better ones. Maybe you ought to be the one who educates yourself. In 1956, ArmaLite designed a lightweight assault rifle for military use and designated it the ArmaLite Rifle-15, or AR-15.[7][8][9] Due to financial problems, and limitations in terms of manpower and production capacity, ArmaLite sold the design and the AR-15 trademark to Colt's Manufacturing Company in 1959.[10] In 1964, Colt began selling its own version with an improved semi-automatic design known as the Colt AR-15.[11] After Colt's patents expired in 1977, an active marketplace emerged for other manufacturers to produce and sell their own AR-15 style rifles.[1] Here is the whole article, read it, educate yourself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

Neither do the hunters that use AR 15s. They are NOT assault rifles and they are NOT machine guns. They hunt with a semi automatic rifle.

If you are going to argue the point, educate yourself. There are some very knowledgeable folks here about these guns. I have asked them about guns and they have all answered very nicely.

LaPierre and all the other's have done their job great. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle In 1956, ArmaLite designed a lightweight assault rifle for military use and designated it the ArmaLite Rifle-15, or AR-15.[7][8][9] Due to financial problems, and limitations in terms of manpower and production capacity, ArmaLite sold the design and the AR-15 trademark to Colt's Manufacturing Company in 1959.[10] In 1964, Colt began selling its own version with an improved semi-automatic design known as the Colt AR-15.[11] After Colt's patents expired in 1977, an active marketplace emerged for other manufacturers to produce and sell their own AR-15 style rifles.[1]

 

[Hikergirl]

I never said it stood for assault rifle, I said we call it an assault rifle. My father was a shooting instructor in the army, has and owns many guns that he keeps locked away in a cabinet (as I also believe people that do NOT do this and children get ahold of them also should be held accountable) and even he does not believe AR 15s need to be owned by people. They were meant originally as a weapon of war by original maker of it that is fact and now they have improved and made better ones. Maybe you ought to be the one who educates yourself. In 1956, ArmaLite designed a lightweight assault rifle for military use and designated it the ArmaLite Rifle-15, or AR-15.[7][8][9] Due to financial problems, and limitations in terms of manpower and production capacity, ArmaLite sold the design and the AR-15 trademark to Colt's Manufacturing Company in 1959.[10] In 1964, Colt began selling its own version with an improved semi-automatic design known as the Colt AR-15.[11] After Colt's patents expired in 1977, an active marketplace emerged for other manufacturers to produce and sell their own AR-15 style rifles.[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle

And the bolded says it all- they designed a semi-auto which means that it is not an assault rifle. The AR-15 in which consumers can purchase today lack the ability to fire in any mode other than semi-auto.
Do you consider every semi-automatic rifle or pistol an assault weapon?

From the links in your post
An assault rifle is a selective-fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine

Selective fire means the capability of a weapon to be adjusted to fire in semi-automatic, burst mode, and/or fully automatic firing mode

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

The irony in that statement is rich

Actually Hikergirl, I think all those opinion stations need to go, all of them

"a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency". Fortunately there is no emergency for which to arm the population, unless Queen Elizabeth decides to invade

[ETA] And with that sneaky comment, I shut my gob and YAGE

That is the way the term is used now but our actual FF didn't want a large gov military "standing army" either, they felt that people would be exploited, having wars not always in their best interests, so they wanted to have a militia of the people which of course we don't have now in the US, except for the National Guard, as regular people are not in it, since regular people are not soldiers. So they can't use this to justify having these weapons as they are not soldiers. James Madison: In time of actual war, great discretionary powers are constantly given to the Executive Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defense against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.

Madison also noted that never-ending war tends to destroy both liberty and prosperity:

Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied: and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals, engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.

And the bolded says it all- they designed a semi-auto which means that it is not an assault rifle. The AR-15 in which consumers can purchase today lack the ability to fire in any mode other than semi-auto.
Do you consider every semi-automatic rifle or pistol an assault weapon?

From the links in your post
An assault rifle is a selective-fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine

Selective fire means the capability of a weapon to be adjusted to fire in semi-automatic, burst mode, and/or fully automatic firing mode

"ArmaLite designed a lightweight assault rifle for military use and designated it the ArmaLite Rifle-15, or AR-15.[7][8][9]" It doesn't matter what it is called regardless.

 

[Hikergirl]

ArmaLite designed a lightweight assault rifle for military use and designated it the ArmaLite Rifle-15, or AR-15.[7][8][9]

You've already said that.
I'll take your silence on the other points in my post (which ironically came from direct links in your post) as confirmation that you haven't thought up an answer that supports your claim.

I get that you are passionate about your stance. The issue is that feelings do not equate to facts. You can feel that the AR-15 is an assault weapon because the media uses that term to describe it, but that doesn't make it an assault rifle. Or my personal favorite the assault "style" weapon term, which of course has absolutely no bearing on how the AR-15 functions as a rifle.
And please tell me again who is influenced by the propaganda.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

What does this mean? My takeaway is you want to speak your piece and be heard, but you don't wish anyone who has a different viewpoint to speak their piece. On a discussion board people discuss. Blogs are more of a one-sided situation.

Wow that is pretty hypocritical LMAO. This blog would be totally one sided to your side as it is only I and maybe 1 or maybe 2 other people besides me giving the other side. That looks to be what YOU are doing, you don't want an opposing opinion. I have about 6 gun supporters replying to me lol, maybe more, there are so many here. They like to operate as gangs also hehe, kidding but not lol. So if anything looks like you don't like an intelligent opposing response to the and that is what YOU are doing. I am giving facts putting real facts on. Not propaganda.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

You've already said that.
I'll take your silence on the other points in my post (which ironically came from direct links in your post) as confirmation that you haven't thought up an answer that supports your claim.

I get that you are passionate about your stance. The issue is that feelings do not equate to facts. You can feel that the AR-15 is an assault weapon because the media uses that term to describe it, but that doesn't make it an assault rifle. Or my personal favorite the assault "style" weapon term, which of course has absolutely no bearing on how the AR-15 functions as a rifle.
And please tell me again who is influenced by the propaganda.

Actually every single thing I have put on here is based on facts and I have been anything but silent lol. I honestly wish I would stop getting the responses from the gang of gun people on here.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

And here is the best FACT of all, the FF wanted us to have a well regulated militia because they did not want what they called a large "standing military force" or what we have now which is our military, they did not want a gov standing army bc they felt that it may lead to not being in the best interest of the people. So the people were trained to protect and fight for the country, every day people were trained soldiers. So you thinking you can own a gun you had to be in a highly trained militia or a soldier, which of course does not relate to how our society operates at this time. Milit is Latin for soldier. So you can't use that (trying not to get political) as a means of saying you can have any weapon you want now. This is from James Madison.

James Madison: In time of actual war, great discretionary powers are constantly given to the Executive Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defense against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.

Madison also noted that never-ending war tends to destroy both liberty and prosperity:

Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied: and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals, engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.