DVC for moderates and values?

[disneynutz]

IMO DVD will continue selling only deluxe resorts and the new projects will sell at a higher price. They want more money, not less.

Bill

 

[DSLRuser]

Except.

Imagine that you’re the DVC executive pitching this idea:

“Yes, I know BLT had 5.5 million points and we want to sell a similar sized Riviera with only 2 million points. Yes. I know that’s leaving almost half a billion with a B dollars on the table. But! Isn’t that a great plan!?”

Depends on the "cost" of the project. half a billion revenue means little if there is no profit.

So the next DVC could be built like a motel 6, sold @ $200 a point. Even if the total number of points is "lower".....there could be a potential for greater profit.

But, we are all just outside speculators at this point, so our comments mean little.

 

[wdrl]

That and the gondola will be shared with two values and a moderate. The monorail is only for the 3 "most exclusive/flagship" resorts on property. I think the lower cache of sharing transportation with a couple of values may keep the price down a bit.

Are you saying that having to share transportation with guests from Value resorts will somehow dilute the value of a DVC resort? Will DVC members actually be bothered by having to mingle with others who paid less for their hotel rooms? Would DVC members be upset that their gondola may actually travel across a Moderate or (shutter!!) a Value Resort?

Surely I'm not the only DVC member that finds such opinions unsettling.

 

[iheartglaciers]

Are you saying that having to share transportation with guests from Value resorts will somehow dilute the value of a DVC resort? Will DVC members actually be bothered by having to mingle with others who paid less for their hotel rooms? Would DVC members be upset that their gondola may actually travel across a Moderate or (shutter!!) a Value Resort?

Surely I'm not the only DVC member that finds such opinions unsettling.

I had interpreted it not as having to mingle with value/mod guests, but that the gondola is less of a value add if value or mod hotels have direct access to it too. It's sort of like if value hotels had hot tubs and table service restaurants (or fill in the blank deluxe amenity that's important to you), why pay more for a deluxe.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Will DVC members actually be bothered by having to mingle with others who paid less for their hotel rooms? Would DVC members be upset that their gondola may actually travel across a Moderate or (shutter!!) a Value Resort?

Surely I'm not the only DVC member that finds such opinions unsettling.

I've heard some DVC members make those very claims, though. Comes with the "we are DVC so we should be treated more specially" territory.

 

[pineapplepalms]

I like the idea of the gondolas more than the monorail, especially if it means each party can get their own gondola (not sure what the capacity will be) or if CMs will direct a certain number of guests to each gondola. One of the reasons we don't love the monorail is that when it gets busy, some people can get pushy or downright rude trying to squeeze into a car or in line ahead of you. Some people can be quite aggressive and angry while on vacation at WDW! When it's not busy the monorail is fine and convenient. It would be so great if the gondolas are more crowd-controlled. It'll be interesting to see how it's executed.

 

[ziravan]

Are you saying that having to share transportation with guests from Value resorts will somehow dilute the value of a DVC resort? Will DVC members actually be bothered by having to mingle with others who paid less for their hotel rooms? Would DVC members be upset that their gondola may actually travel across a Moderate or (shutter!!) a Value Resort?

Surely I'm not the only DVC member that finds such opinions unsettling.

I think it depends on the order of the routes.

I took it to mean that the Gondolas would be of less value if they had to snake through other resorts first. Sort of like dual tasked busses.

It’s not the rubbing elbows with the POP crowd; it’s the extra 15 minutes of transit time each way to do so that would make the deal less valuable.

 

[Turn the Page]

Are you saying that having to share transportation with guests from Value resorts will somehow dilute the value of a DVC resort? Will DVC members actually be bothered by having to mingle with others who paid less for their hotel rooms? Would DVC members be upset that their gondola may actually travel across a Moderate or (shutter!!) a Value Resort?

Surely I'm not the only DVC member that finds such opinions unsettling.

If you're asking if I feel that way then no, I don't. I'm just essentially arguing the point made by the post I quoted below.

I had interpreted it not as having to mingle with value/mod guests, but that the gondola is less of a value add if value or mod hotels have direct access to it too. It's sort of like if value hotels had hot tubs and table service restaurants (or fill in the blank deluxe amenity that's important to you), why pay more for a deluxe.

This exactly. It's not that having people from Pop be on it that would devalue it. I mean, I assume people will use it to park hop from EPCOT to DHS and vice versa. Heck, I'm guessing people will just hop on it and ride the loop a few times for giggle just like they do the monorail. However, with the monorail, you can ride it to resort hop and check out other place or to hop between EPCOT and MK.....but you can't take it back to your resort unless you are staying at one of the 3 most exclusive resorts on property.

Likewise, everybody will use the gondola system but you don't have to pay an obscene amount extra to be able to take the gondola back to your resort. Like with BC for example. Many people stay at BC due to SAB and the easy access to EPCOT. If every resort had a pool akin to SAB then you wouldn't have to stay at BC in order to take advantage of it. You could stay at POP and get a SAB quality pool so why wouldn't you save the few thousand dollars?

I think it depends on the order of the routes.

I took it to mean that the Gondolas would be of less value if they had to snake through other resorts first. Sort of like dual tasked busses.

It’s not the rubbing elbows with the POP crowd; it’s the extra 15 minutes of transit time each way to do so that would make the deal less valuable.

I hadn't really thought about that too much though I was a touch surprised the hub was at CBR rather than Riviera. From the maps I have scene Riviera guests will be able to take a gondola directly to EPCOT but to get to DHS they will have to hop a gondola going the other way then get off at CBR and switch to the DHS line which is basically how the monorail works. Not a big deal but with a moderate and a deluxe DVC right next to each other I am a touch surprised the hub wasn't at Riviera. Maybe they wanted to keep traffic down there?

 

[Turn the Page]

I've heard some DVC members make those very claims, though. Comes with the "we are DVC so we should be treated more specially" territory.

How many times have we seen people argue that FP allotments should depend on level of resort? If people staying at values get 3 FP+ selections in advance then mods should get 4 and deluxes should get 5 or 6. You see arguments like that all the time.

 

[Matty B13]

Maybe with the hub at CBR they will try to make it into a more upscale resort..... with appropriate pricing of course.

I think it will be interesting how the gondolas work out and the travel times between the resorts and parks. I wonder if it is very successful if they would replace the monorail with gondolas.

 

[Turn the Page]

Maybe with the hub at CBR they will try to make it into a more upscale resort..... with appropriate pricing of course.

I think it will be interesting how the gondolas work out and the travel times between the resorts and parks. I wonder if it is very successful if they would replace the monorail with gondolas.

I would imagine at some point they are going to have to do something with the monorail and I have to believe replacing it with a gondola system would be way cheaper than replacing or even repairing the monorail track.

 

[Matty B13]

I would imagine at some point they are going to have to do something with the monorail and I have to believe replacing it with a gondola system would be way cheaper than replacing or even repairing the monorail track.

Sadly, I think that might be one of the options that they have in mind. My first ride was when I was 6, and you use to be able to ride in the front with the operator. My girls seem to really enjoy riding it as well. But the gondolas at least wouldn't be buses and you would be able to enjoy a scenic view of the resorts and parks as you make your way around the seven seas lagoon.

 

[Turn the Page]

Sadly, I think that might be one of the options that they have in mind. My first ride was when I was 6, and you use to be able to ride in the front with the operator. My girls seem to really enjoy riding it as well. But the gondolas at least wouldn't be buses and you would be able to enjoy a scenic view of the resorts and parks as you make your way around the seven seas lagoon.

I remember when you could ride in the front. We did it a time or two.

I admit on our last couple of trips my mom would be gushing about the monorail and how we had to take the kids on it because they would love it and when we got in line for it all I ended up thinking was "is this really any better than the bus?" I don't think it is.

 

[DougEMG]

Are you saying that having to share transportation with guests from Value resorts will somehow dilute the value of a DVC resort? Will DVC members actually be bothered by having to mingle with others who paid less for their hotel rooms? Would DVC members be upset that their gondola may actually travel across a Moderate or (shutter!!) a Value Resort?

Surely I'm not the only DVC member that finds such opinions unsettling.

Sharing transportation between deluxe, moderate and values just means that you can't sell it as something special. You don't see Disney advertising how great the bus transportation is at a deluxe as a selling point because all the resorts have it.

Being on the monorail is a selling feature. Walking to a park is a selling feature.

If the gondolas are going to be marketed as a selling feature, then I would expect the other resorts attached to it to see a significant increase in price compared to those resorts still serviced by bus only.

 

[Dean]

I slightly disagree about the feasibility of a moderate DVC arm. It would create some logistical issues and such but I'm not sure those are impossible to overcome. The big benefit of it would be that it would appeal to a whole market that is priced out of the current DVC model. However, that said, why would they bother building something to attract that market when they can barely keep pace with demand for their current model.

Actually we don't disagree, IMO they could fairly easily create a value class with lower points, I've argued they could over the years. They could also create a separate system with or without a crossover options, and lockout those who do not own qualified points. But realistically they don't have to, there's really no reason for them to do so. Having a true DVC at a moderate doesn't cheapen the DVC option at that location, if anything, it might add to the value given the usual amenities and dining options at those locations. FW might be a little stretch in that vein but I think that's workable as well, esp since it sounds likely to be the next project announced. The one point I think we disagree on is what they would do if they could. While things are selling reasonbly well right now, if there's an economic hiccup, that will fall like it has at times in the past.

Marriott tried to do a separate system with a crossover called Horizon's, it failed. It was a step down product aimed at younger families with younger children. The resorts had smaller less upscale villas than their usual MVC system. My view of why it failed was they were too greedy and didn't have a wide enough price gap between the true MVC resorts like Grand Vista for Orlando (the Horizons is now Harbour Lakes). The other issue was the 2 resorts they did build were in saturated markets of Orlando and Branson. Had they built the Gatlinburg location early in the process, I think the outcome might have been different. I'm not sure where the 4th location was. They simply rolled those 2 resorts into the Marriott Vacation Club which causes some interesting discussions in Marriott circles.

I think the gondolas will be a hit with guests but I think it may take a bit for that to happen. Most people don't have any experience with them and don't really know what to make of them. People who have experienced them before, skiers and such for example, know what to expect and are more excited about it. All in all I am way more excited about the prospect of staying on the gondola line than I ever was about staying on the monorail loop. Don't have to wait for the gondola like you do the monorail.

We'll see, I'm not convinced it's going to be the end all or add significant demand to the resort.

I've heard some DVC members make those very claims, though. Comes with the "we are DVC so we should be treated more specially" territory.

We've seen MANY posts over the years c/w entitlement or elitism. It's just a timeshare, no more and no less. It's the location that makes it great, it's certainly not been the maintenance.

 

[Turn the Page]

We'll see, I'm not convinced it's going to be the end all or add significant demand to the resort.

What I like about it is it is continuously loading. You're not standing there for 20 minutes waiting for the next bus or monorail to show up. It loads like HM rather than Soarin'.

 

[DenLo]

DVC has been selling more points at each resort by either making it a larger resort or making the point cost higher per night. We know the Riviera is a large resort as it was announced to have 300 rooms. It is half the height of BLT as that resort has 16 stories and the Riviera was announced showing 8 stories. It appears to a very long resort based on photos of the construction, so it looks like long hallways will be a possibility, unless DVC is smart enough to put two elevators in the building like they did with BLT with the elevators further away from the lobby. That makes the walk shorter.

I have never figured out what people define as Disney theming. So to me that argument is impossible to satisfy as we all have different tastes. But I do hope for hidden Mickey's in the decor of the rooms. Also with Riviera as the name, I am hoping that means it will incorporate some Disney characters like they did for the Villas at Grand Floridian in that lobby.

 

[Dean]

What I like about it is it is continuously loading. You're not standing there for 20 minutes waiting for the next bus or monorail to show up. It loads like HM rather than Soarin'.

It really doesn't matter if a given person likes it, what matters is how desirable it is when one has to put up dollars/points. My guess is it'll be above SSR/OKW but below BWV/BCV in terms of demand, likely somewhere around the overall demand of AKV or just below. But it does depend on the points structure and other specifics that are not yet available. Sales will be a different issue because no matter the demand, they will sell it, using the draw of the other resorts if necessary. I wonder if they will do fixed weeks there.

 

[tjkraz]

Disney is known to push the envelope on pricing and discount if necessary. I expect nothing less here. Regardless of how we try to weight every resort variable, if people are buying there is no issue.

As for the Skyliner's availability at a variety of different resort classes, I'm not convinced there is a significant population who would think "I really like Riviera and the benefits of DVC ownership, but it's not worth it if I can still ride the Skyliner from POP."

 

[Turn the Page]

Disney is known to push the envelope on pricing and discount if necessary. I expect nothing less here. Regardless of how we try to weight every resort variable, if people are buying there is no issue.

As for the Skyliner's availability at a variety of different resort classes, I'm not convinced there is a significant population who would think "I really like Riviera and the benefits of DVC ownership, but it's not worth it if I can still ride the Skyliner from POP."

Probably not. But I bet there is a pretty significant population who would think "I was thinking of renting points or paying cash for a room at Riviera but I can still get the gondola service staying at CBR." Or opt for a value rather than CBR. It doesn't mean sharing the gondola line with values means it diminishes the benefit of the gondola just that it's no longer a selling point specific to Riviera that would help sell it.