Wanna buy a Fastpass? It will cost ya $50

[mickeyluv'r]

I never said that, I don't know or even care what is motivation was. All I care about it is the WDW I spend my money at today. Of course I'm not a fan of Walt's, I don't hold him up on any pedestal or anything. I'm grateful he did what he did when he did, or else there would not be WDW today that I love. However, I don't need to know his bio to know that as a businessman he wouldn't have any problems with the success of his company. A successful company means alot more than one individual's wealth.

Whoa! Since when does knowing a little biographical information equate to holding someone up on a pedestal?

I don't know anyone who sets out to fail per say, but at the time it was made, Snow White wasn't expected to be a commercial success. It took nearly three years to make, and came out after Disney's company had run out of money.

There wasn't any kind of certainty of success. It wasn't any kind of safe bet, and that was after he'd experienced bankruptcy.

I have little idea what he'd think about FP+, much less this new offer. If I were to make a guess though, I only imagine what he'd be doing today would be consistent with what he did while he was alive.

 

[Hikergirl]

Whoa! Since when does knowing a little biographical information equate to holding someone up on a pedestal?

I don't know anyone who sets out to fail per say, but at the time it was made, Snow White wasn't expected to be a commercial success. It took nearly three years to make, and came out after Disney's company had run out of money.

There wasn't any kind of certainty of success. It wasn't any kind of safe bet, and that was after he'd experienced bankruptcy.

I have little idea what he'd think about FP+, much less this new offer. If I were to make a guess though, I only imagine what he'd be doing today would be consistent with what he did while he was alive.

I wasn't saying you held him up, I was saying I don't. I was trying to say that I'm not a fan of him, I'm just a fan of WDW.
He was a businessman nothing more, nothing less IMO.

 

[epcotty]

I disagree. I think it’s more popular b/c Disney markets their products & parks well worldwide. And they have done a good job of marketing to all levels. They advertise how “affordable” it is for a family of 4 to stay in a value for 4 days. That’s not aimed at ppl who know what it used to cost just 5 years ago to do that. That’s aimed at ppl who never thought they could afford Disney at all & stick to cheaper vacations but then say “hmm...that’s not that bad”. Plus with allowing ppl to book for a reasonably low deposit amount & make payments, it essentially lets you put vacation on layaway. So Disney has marketed to whole new demographic that never used to even consider disney. I don’t think the average person thinks it’s going to soon rise beyond their budget & hurry up to get a trip in.

Interesting, that might be true to an extent too. But then it depends on how long the target audience has been going to Disney for, what they know about how much it used to cost, and how much they feel it's worth to them. And at the same time they've also taken away former good deals like no expiration, several good options on fl resident tickets (no more discount on 1 day, no expiration, or tickets past 4 days and then there's now blockout dates). So they are alienating people at the same time

 

[mickeyluv'r]

We paid $255pp for the Ultimate day of Thrills VIP Tour (price includes 15% DVC discount) last summer. We went through the FP+ line for 11 rides. That comes out to $23.18 per FP+ per person, but it also included two tour guides for our group of approximately 20, transportation to two parks (EP and DHS) in a van, back entrance into the parks (thus avoiding the lines out front), bottles of water and lunch at Sunshine Seasons. I think my deal was better.

Edited to add: Tour began at MK

Good post!
I like how you break down the value of the VIP tour. Sometimes it is hard to think past sticker shock to see the actual value of an offer.

Most of us are pretty good rationalizing things we want to be true.

I used to know folks- in the very old pre-cell phone days- that would drive around town to find the gas station with the lowest price. They'd spend over an hour of their time to save fifty cents. Sadly, I just couldn't convince them that their time was worth more than fifty cents an hour.

I suppose that's why this upsell somewhat appeals to me.

I've long said time is money at WDW, but I've never read a take on the VIP like your post, so it wasn't possible to know the value. (As in, how many FP does the VIP tour equal?)

thanks!

 

[Crystal824]

I'm not the target audience for this. We are a family of 5, DVC owners. However, I agree, I'm not surprised this hasn't been done already. I understand that for some people this would be great especially if this is your once in a lifetime trip.

I do pay for convenience with some things. As a PP stated, I think dessert parties are a waste of money in general, but with 3 kids and grandma on an ECV, we are doing two on our next trip. It just makes life easier. We have the cash, and we are willing to splurge.

If were still just DH and me, we might be willing to splurge on this too at some point. Right now, where we are in life, it isn't for us. That is ok. If there are enough people who can and want to do this, it will become a new thing. If not, it will die out just like the silly Tomorrowland cabanas.

 

[zebrastreyepz]

Most of the general population doesn’t know how the current fp system works so they won’t be upset about potentially losing something they never knew they might have had. And, again, disposable income can be related to other life choices, so it doesn’t make ppl well off, just means they spend their $ differently. Example for me: we go often to WdW. My sister goes once every 5 years or so. She had said to me once “oh we can’t go like y’all b/c we can’t afford that”. But, I pointed out to her that her & her husband both ride in Mardi Gras krewes here in NOLA. That’s very expensive & about what we pay to go to wdw annually or twice annually so it’s just a different use of our disposable incomes. And even the amount of ppl in your family can be a choice. A family of 5 has to spend more for the same thing than a family of 4, but, for the most part that is a choice.

Things I give up that people (that I know) who claim to not have money to go to WDW do:

*Buy a more expensive vehicle. I walked in and said, "What's the cheapest one you have?" I drive a Kia Forte, used.

*Get my hair colored every six weeks like clockwork.

*Get my hair cut every two weeks like clockwork.

*Have my nails done every two weeks like clockwork.

*Have my eyebrows done every two weeks like clockwork.

*Get bored with my curtains, bedding, etc. and purchase new twice a year.

*Purchase high end makeup, perfume, and bath products.

*Be too special to shop at Aldi.

*I will ONLY buy my "luxury" items when on a good sale or clearance. This is my Asics shoes and Vera Bradley purses.

*I will only pay for Netflix.

I'm sure I'm missing some, but those are off the top of my head.

It's all about choices, many times.

 

[Ronferr80]

We paid $255pp for the Ultimate day of Thrills VIP Tour (price includes 15% DVC discount) last summer. We went through the FP+ line for 11 rides. That comes out to $23.18 per FP+ per person, but it also included two tour guides for our group of approximately 20, transportation to two parks (EP and DHS) in a van, back entrance into the parks (thus avoiding the lines out front), bottles of water and lunch at Sunshine Seasons. I think my deal was better.

Edited to add: Tour began at MK

This is why Disney has gotten it right in my opinion. What you describe sounds like something I would not be interested in with my family of 5. Its great that you got on all those rides but I have no desire to walk around with two tour guides and would rather do things with just my family at my pace, or whatever my fastpasses allow me to do . Also with 20 people I'm gonna assume you did a group tour? Was it all your family and friends? If so great! If not I definitely don't want to be thrown into a group with people I don't know who can see all my kids meltdowns lol.

So it sounds like you had a great experience with a tour some people might say is crazy to pay for, or just don't see the value in it. I on the other hand am very curious to hear all the details on this new offer since I am staying club level in april and I might find that to be a deal than yours

Point being is Disney finds a way to cater to every single person and their needs and again in my opinion will continue to do so as crowds have not revolted yet and continue to come in the masses

 

[Ronferr80]

Good post!
I like how you break down the value of the VIP tour. Sometimes it is hard to think past sticker shock to see the actual value of an offer.

Most of us are pretty good rationalizing things we want to be true.

I used to know folks- in the very old pre-cell phone days- that would drive around town to find the gas station with the lowest price. They'd spend over an hour of their time to save fifty cents. Sadly, I just couldn't convince them that their time was worth more than fifty cents an hour.

I suppose that's why this upsell somewhat appeals to me.

I've long said time is money at WDW, but I've never read a take on the VIP like your post, so it wasn't possible to know the value. (As in, how many FP does the VIP tour equal?)

thanks!

haahahah I know what you mean! or they drive around for so long they end up burning more in gas which in turn causes them to spend the same or even more rather then if they just went to the closer gas station and paid a little more

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

I know there are those who see this as the proverbial camel's nose under the tent. But it seems to me that this is Disney harvesting a bit more money from luxury travelers who already happily fork over plenty for club level rooms. Maybe it will be a home run for Disney, and maybe not. But they are in a pattern of trying to get more cash from that crowd. Remember the ill-fated cabanas in MK? I don't think the rest of us will even notice this is going on because there is such a low percentage of club level rooms. Not enough extra FPs in play here to even notice. I could be wrong, but I don't think monetizing FPs is a top priority for Disney right now. They know the present chemistry that has led to surging park attendance and profits is a delicate balance to maintain.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Things I give up that people (that I know) who claim to not have money to go to WDW do...

It's all about choices, many times.

Sure, but that isn't to say everyone has the same resources.

Or the same motivations. I sometimes buy items at Whole Foods. It isn't to be pretentious, it is because they carry some items, like spices, that other nearby stores don't carry.

As I said, I used to know folks who'd drive around to different gas stations to save fifty cents. It wasn't really to save money. It was just about the thrill of the hunt.

I think any of us who are WDW regulars have probably rationalized away WDW expenses in some way.

There used to a running DISboards joke about magical Disney-math. (the ways we rationalized WDW expenses.)

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I don't agree. Sure, sometimes the value of an offer is subjective, as you say, but other times it isn't - at least the way I post.

When I say something isn't worth buying, I usually mean it in the sense of "that doesn't make financial sense." For example, long ago there was time when it didn't make financial sense to buy a WDW vacation package. The cost of the components (room, tickets, food) as a "package" cost quite a bit more than buying those components - still through Disney- as a non-package.

This was BEFORE the advent of the Disney dining Plan, but not before the DIS. (I've been here that long!)

It wasn't even a matter of it being easier to buy the package.

It just didn't make sense to buy the package, unless you were too lazy to do the math, or if you REALLY liked the NAME of the package. There was no booking advantage or anything. Just a higher price.

OK. Your example is a little different. It is one that requires math to figure out which is a better deal, and many people didn't do that math. Or, put a premium on the convenience of booking everything in one shot.

Here, there is a lot more subjectivity in assigning value. How much value do we each assign to: 90day window, 3 more FP in any park, seating for fireworks/show. For anyone to state that this is just stupid at $50pp/day is silly. It is a matter of opinion and how we each assign value given our personal financial positions.

Just so we are clear here, what is the "luxury item" that is under consideration in this discussion?

I'd say that vacations are luxury items -- not necessities. They don't track with inflation.

On the subject of Walt wanting Disneyland to be affordable/for everyone.

I've heard more specific quotes than this, (about how Walt wanted Disneyland to a place that was affordable for everyone) but with just a quick search I found multiple quotes that get to the gist of how he thought:

1. "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money. "

2, "In my view, wholesome pleasure, sport, and recreation are as vital to this nation as productive work and should have a large share in the national budget."

3. “I have never been interested in personal gain or profit. This business and this studio have been my entire life.”

4.. "We believed in our idea – a family park where parents and children could have fun- together.”

5. (not really about affordability, but so great!) –“Our heritage and ideals, our code and standards – the things we live by and teach our children – are preserved or diminished by how freely we exchange ideas and feelings.”

6. "“I don’t make pictures just to make money. I make money to make more pictures.”


While none of these specifically say Disneyland should be inexpensive, taken together, they clearly show that he cared mostly about sharing his creations with as many people as possible, not making money.

My two cents...

• Several of these don't even relate to $$ (4 and 5).
• No one said he did anything JUST for money -- 1 and 6
• I don't even know what is meant by "a large share in the national budget" in 2 -- don't think this is applicable
• I don't believe the first sentence in 3. The second sentence, sure! And not a commentary on affordability or inflation.

None of these things refer to inflation or state that everyone must be able to afford a Disney trip. He was a businessman. A businessman with a lovely vision. But if he didn't make money, he wouldn't have had it to expand his business or to keep the doors of Disneyland open.

Remember: Walt structured ticket prices such that people paid more for rides that were in greater demand! This is much more related to that thinking than not.

I don't speculate on what he would do if he was still alive, but suggesting wealth was his prime motivation is demonstrably inaccurate if you know his biography.

I still don't know who speculated that wealth was his prime motivation. That doesn't get to the question of whether he'd be ok with charging for FPs. And as much as I admire the way he realized his vision and built his empire, time marches on. This is now a huge public company, beholden to shareholders, etc. etc. They have a profit motive.

As long as they don't cross that magical line between solid market segmentation and losing more customers than they gain by going too far, they're on the right track in my book.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Point being is Disney finds a way to cater to every single person and their needs and again in my opinion will continue to do so as crowds have not revolted yet and continue to come in the masses

You are making me think of those WDW parents - the ones we've all seen- that expect their kids to be immune to Disney marketing.


Alas, they are just getting better at marketing to adults.

Maybe we should do those surveys any more. the ones that ask which upsells we'd buy.....

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Maybe we should do those surveys any more. the ones that ask which upsells we'd buy.....

Yeah!!! Why give them an opportunity to craft offers that we think are so awesome that we would pay EXTRA for them!!!

 

[holden]

This is why Disney has gotten it right in my opinion. What you describe sounds like something I would not be interested in with my family of 5. Its great that you got on all those rides but I have no desire to walk around with two tour guides and would rather do things with just my family at my pace, or whatever my fastpasses allow me to do . Also with 20 people I'm gonna assume you did a group tour? Was it all your family and friends? If so great! If not I definitely don't want to be thrown into a group with people I don't know who can see all my kids meltdowns lol.

So it sounds like you had a great experience with a tour some people might say is crazy to pay for, or just don't see the value in it. I on the other hand am very curious to hear all the details on this new offer since I am staying club level in april and I might find that to be a deal than yours

Point being is Disney finds a way to cater to every single person and their needs and again in my opinion will continue to do so as crowds have not revolted yet and continue to come in the masses

To answer your question the others in the group were not traveling with us. They were strangers to us but friendly. Everyone stuck with their own party on the rides. We chatted with each other but that’s about it.

It was an all day tour (approximately 7 hours) so I wouldn’t recommend it for little ones. Plus younger kids can’t ride all the thrill rides.

 

[LSUmiss]

What the general population does or does not know matters little. What matters is what the subset of the general population who vacation at WDW knows. And while it became a common refrain to project ignorance on them when FP (and later FP+) were first introduced, the level of knowledge is growing rapidly, especially as tech-savvy Millennials (and four year-olds) displace the Greatest Generation as guests.

My comment was in response to the pp who said that the parks are crowded despite prices b/c the general public is trying to hurry up & go to WDW before it’s out of their prices range. So, in that case, it does matter what they know.

 

[Dismama2boys]

I keep trying to get all the way through this thread before I respond, but I just have a few thoughts I have to get out....

I'm amazed that anyone ever thought the parks were supposed to somehow be the same experience for everyone, some sort of egalitarian experience. I mean, flabbergasted. If that were the case, they would be a 501c3 and have a sliding scale for payment based on income. It has never been, nor will it ever be, a place where it's a level playing field. They really don't care who can or can't pay, as long as people - any people - are still paying it. And that doesn't make them "immoral".

I truly roll my eyes when anyone presumes to know what Walt would have wanted.

I don't mind pay-for-play upcharge experiences, as long as it doesn't negatively impact the visit for those that don't choose to pay it. And unfortunately I think there's no denying that's where this is headed. People that say they'll never pay for more FP's and are content with their three free ones I think are being naive. While I don't think they'll take away the three free ones, I think they'll lose their value. I think they'll add FP capacity by putting all experiences into the system, and headliners will become close to impossible to get for those that don't pay to get extras and to get them early.

I can pay for plenty of things that I choose not to, because the value isn't there in my opinion. I think this falls into that category for me, and I'm sad that our trips are bound to be negatively impacted by this.

 

[Pluto777]

I keep trying to get all the way through this thread before I respond, but I just have a few thoughts I have to get out....

I'm amazed that anyone ever thought the parks were supposed to somehow be the same experience for everyone, some sort of egalitarian experience. I mean, flabbergasted. If that were the case, they would be a 501c3 and have a sliding scale for payment based on income. It has never been, nor will it ever be, a place where it's a level playing field. They really don't care who can or can't pay, as long as people - any people - are still paying it. And that doesn't make them "immoral".

I truly roll my eyes when anyone presumes to know what Walt would have wanted.

I don't mind pay-for-play upcharge experiences, as long as it doesn't negatively impact the visit for those that don't choose to pay it. And unfortunately I think there's no denying that's where this is headed. People that say they'll never pay for more FP's and are content with their three free ones I think are being naive. While I don't think they'll take away the three free ones, I think they'll lose their value. I think they'll add FP capacity by putting all experiences into the system, and headliners will become close to impossible to get for those that don't pay to get extras and to get them early.

I can pay for plenty of things that I choose not to, because the value isn't there in my opinion. I think this falls into that category for me, and I'm sad that our trips are bound to be negatively impacted by this.

Hi. You wrote "...as long as it doesn't negatively impact the visit for those that don't choose to pay it..." and I think that may be what some of us are upset about. The fact is, that if some people are able to pay extra in order to essentially 'skip' the line, doesn't this mean that the rest of us who DONT pay the extra will basically have a line to wait in that is this much longer?

 

[Dismama2boys]

Hi. You wrote "...as long as it doesn't negatively impact the visit for those that don't choose to pay it..." and I think that may be what some of us are upset about. The fact is, that if some people are able to pay extra in order to essentially 'skip' the line, doesn't this mean that the rest of us who DONT pay the extra will basically have a line to wait in that is this much longer?

Maybe I should have been more clear, but I totally agree with you. I think that this will become more widespread and will definitely affect those of us who choose not to do it. Absolutely it will. And I hate it too for that very reason. At some point we may be "forced" to do it just to feel like we're having a decent experience, and that stinks.

 

[Luckybee]

This is why Disney has gotten it right in my opinion. What you describe sounds like something I would not be interested in with my family of 5. Its great that you got on all those rides but I have no desire to walk around with two tour guides and would rather do things with just my family at my pace, or whatever my fastpasses allow me to do . Also with 20 people I'm gonna assume you did a group tour? Was it all your family and friends? If so great! If not I definitely don't want to be thrown into a group with people I don't know who can see all my kids meltdowns lol.

So it sounds like you had a great experience with a tour some people might say is crazy to pay for, or just don't see the value in it. I on the other hand am very curious to hear all the details on this new offer since I am staying club level in april and I might find that to be a deal than yours

Point being is Disney finds a way to cater to every single person and their needs and again in my opinion will continue to do so as crowds have not revolted yet and continue to come in the masses

You've just hit dead on the dilemma dh and I are now having. I called wdw today to get answers to the questions we had about the program and we were happy and were going to go for it. Then we found out that we would have to go to an epcot resort since none of the monorail or WL resorts clubs were available for our trip. So now it comes down to the following. We have 3 days of really needing fp's(4 days of park plans but one is more for just walking around the world showcase and doing the food booths during the Flower and Garden...had only planned for 3 days but the Canadian special tickets are cheaper for a 4 day pass than the reg 3 day tickets) ...for our MK day we already have 2 extra's each because of a service issue(so 5 each), and we have the dessert party.....for our Epcot day we're hoping for the dessert party which gets us Frozen, and illuminations and with our fp Soarin, and for our AK day we have the tour which gets us everything....BUT we have to do it in a group

So do we keep the GF where we want to stay but have a grp tour or give up the gf and tour ourselves at AK . Right now although close we're leaning toward staying with what we have because of the lack of club availability but next time if this is still going we'll go the other route. I worked out the numbers a couple of different ways and for us the $'s are a wash .

 

[kittyab]

I remember the big ho ha when they started to have those after hours parties, everyone said they wont pay for it, and eventually they found people who would pay.

I think the club level is just the beginning.