If the new gondola, Skyliner, is successful, will they create more lines?

[joelkfla]

How do they differ? Just curious. An aerial tramway sounds like it would be larger?

An aerial tramway has either one or two large cabins permanently attached to the propulsion cable. The cable is stopped while the cabins are in the stations, and the cabins are loaded while stopped. After loading, the cable is started to move the cabins. If there are 2 cabins on the same cable, they are at opposite ends of the line when stopped, and pass each other midway.

Detachable gondolas are multiple smaller cabins on a constantly moving cable. When a cabin arrives at a station, it comes off the cable onto an overhead track, and usually continues to move thru the station at low speed propelled by rotating tires or a chain. After loading, the cabin proceeds to the end of the track and reattaches to the same or another cable. At a terminus station, the track is U-shaped, so the cabin reverses direction.

 

[DanBoris]

Yes, but monorails are all connected with a driver. Being high up in something unmanned where you would be stranded alone is a scarier situation.

Knowing there is a "driver" in the monorail might have a physiological benefit, but in reality the driver doesn't have access to the passenger areas.

 

[PuppyJonathan]

For some reason I can see this being picking up where the monorail track left off, as in this will cover what isn't covered by monorail. Only time will tell though

 

[The Expert]

Yes, I do think this will be a detachable gondola system, like the Ngong Ping 360 in Hong Kong: https://www.np360.com.hk/en/explore-np360/cable-car/. (Note that theirs is a three-cable with the larger towers.) In fact, when I saw the car mock-ups they showed at D23, that's immediately what i thought of. These are not too far away from HKDL, actually. They run from a base station that houses ticketing, security, a convenience store and restrooms (attached to a big mall), up to the monastery and largest outdoor seated Buddha in the world. It's about a 25 minute ride and covers about 3.5 miles each way. Year-round, it is hot and humid, rainy, stormy, windy, foggy, etc and it runs without issue and without A/C or heat. And they have some cabins with clear floors so you can see the full view, which is pretty cool! Last time we rode it was completely fogged in but they still run without issue.

 

[tjkraz]

For some reason I can see this being picking up where the monorail track left off, as in this will cover what isn't covered by monorail. Only time will tell though

Devil's advocate: the concrete monorail beams, trains and every aspect of the system are going to require ever-increasing maintenance over the years.

I could see them removing the Epcot line and keeping the SSL loop. SSL changes would require a lot of reconfiguration to MK, TTC and every one of the resorts. Not to mention the PR fallout. It would be an expensive mistake if bookings at CR, Poly and GF suddenly go in the toilet with the monorail gone. (So perhaps keep your eyes posted for a Disney survey!)

Comparatively speaking, I think there would be disappointment over loss of the TTC-to-Ep monorail route, but I don't think the financial backlash would be as severe. People will refuse to book MK resorts if the MK monorail is gone. But I don't know that they feel as strongly about the Epcot spur.

 

[michelleiada]

An aerial tramway has either one or two large cabins permanently attached to the propulsion cable. The cable is stopped while the cabins are in the stations, and the cabins are loaded while stopped. After loading, the cable is started to move the cabins. If there are 2 cabins on the same cable, they are at opposite ends of the line when stopped, and pass each other midway.

Detachable gondolas are multiple smaller cabins on a constantly moving cable. When a cabin arrives at a station, it comes off the cable onto an overhead track, and usually continues to move thru the station at low speed propelled by rotating tires or a chain. After loading, the cabin proceeds to the end of the track and reattaches to the same or another cable. At a terminus station, the track is U-shaped, so the cabin reverses direction.

So it makes the most sense to go with the single cable gondola system. I was thinking the larger cars would transport more people and wondering why they opted not to do this. Now I get it. Thanks.

 

[TygerHawks]

Reading through the post, surprised they don't just do elevated rails and have the trams configured to run by rail.

 

[michelleiada]

Reading through the post, surprised they don't just do elevated rails and have the trams configured to run by rail.

Sounds like it may be more expensive. I would think they are going to go with the most cost effect and efficient way to move people.

 

[DanBoris]

So it makes the most sense to go with the single cable gondola system. I was thinking the larger cars would transport more people and wondering why they opted not to do this. Now I get it. Thanks.

Many smaller cars might give you more capacity then just two big ones. There is also a physiological benefit to the small cars in that they are continuously loading and thus the line waiting for them is continuously moving, so if you are in line you are never left wondering when the next car will arrive.

 

[DisFanDad]

The idea sounds nice but the deal killer would be the weather in the summer. Hurricanes and tornados have the power to cause extreme accidents. Hopefully safety precautions make it more feasible.

I would've prefered the monorail expansion but this is where we're at the moment.

These things are built to go up the sides of mountains, often quite high off the mountains, or between peaks at altitude, where -normal- winds/weather are quite extreme.

People (not you in particular obviously) keep bringing up the "weather" problem, I am not sure if you all just don't ski/snowboard or haven't ever been up to the mountains, places like Whistler or the Swiss Alps, etc. Lemme tell you, the weather up there can sometimes be crazy on a NICE day ... I have only ever heard of them being shut down with winds in excess of 100km/ hr with extremely heavy snow ... If weather is THAT bad, the parks shouldn't be open either.

 

[mikebb]

I'm a bit excited about the gondola, but I have some reservations.

RE: Weather, I understand the weather argument in comparison to ski lifts and the like, but wondering if those in the know can speak to how these systems are in frequent lightning? I'm sure Disney has taken this into account, but I know I personally would hate to stay at a resort where a prime draw is the gondola, then have it shut down every afternoon while it storms. Alternate transportation from IG would have to be arranged, etc.

Second, is accidents and more important, public perceptions of outages/incidents. We all know the monorail has had a few publicized incidents with people being evacuated, but my understanding is that they can usually either push the train to the station or worst case, get some fire dept. bucket trucks up to the train. Compare this with the optics from any gondola incident (see here http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40770120 for an example, woman rappelling off with children in their arms) and Disney would have a major PR situation to deal with should anything happen. Yes I know these are exceedingly rare, but it would only take one.

Overall, I have faith in Disney that they always dot the i's and cross the t's with these things, but they will still remain concerns in the back of my mind.

 

[tlmadden73]

I was wondering whether, if this proves to be a success and more cost effective, could it actually REPLACE the existing Monorail long term?

I don't see that considering the monorail stations go "through" the resort hotels and around Epcot.

 

[The Expert]

A little more on the Ngong Ping 360, for those worried about capacity... Their system has 109 cars, each of which can hold 17 passengers (though they typically send them up with 2-10 depending on time of year, and I've personally never seen more than 8). Their max capacity ridership is 3500 people per hour. At this stage, we really have no idea how many cars WDW is planning for, but that math should be simple enough to figure out once those details emerge.

I also found some information about safety standards and weather with the system itself. Keep in mind also that the WDW system appears to be a single cable system, while NP360 is a three cable system with the larger towers, which may indicate different standards. Also, some of this came from an article from 2006 when the system was being installed. There may have been improvements or changes since.

"According to the system's design, there will be temporary suspensions in weather conditions, including typhoon signal No 8 and above, black rainstorm warnings, lightning, and of 90km an hour persistent winds and 135km an hour gust winds."

A typhoon signal 8 is roughly equivalent to a tropical storm warning (*sustained* winds 40 to 70 mph). A black rainstorm warning is when rainfall is falling at a rate of more than 1.2 inches per hour or more. The wind threshold outside of the tropical storm warning is 55 mph sustained and gusts of 85 mph. The lightning proximity seems to be somewhat variable depending on where the system is installed, but the Orlando airport ground crews use a 3 mile radius, so I would guess they would use the same for this system.

 

[tlmadden73]

Devil's advocate: the concrete monorail beams, trains and every aspect of the system are going to require ever-increasing maintenance over the years.

I could see them removing the Epcot line and keeping the SSL loop. SSL changes would require a lot of reconfiguration to MK, TTC and every one of the resorts. Not to mention the PR fallout. It would be an expensive mistake if bookings at CR, Poly and GF suddenly go in the toilet with the monorail gone. (So perhaps keep your eyes posted for a Disney survey!)

Comparatively speaking, I think there would be disappointment over loss of the TTC-to-Ep monorail route, but I don't think the financial backlash would be as severe. People will refuse to book MK resorts if the MK monorail is gone. But I don't know that they feel as strongly about the Epcot spur.

I could see this since the line from TTC to Epcot is so long and there is nothing on that line (shocked they have never built a resort on that line or connected the Epcot line to Wilderness Lodge or something.

Even though it is in the concept art, I could seem them using the Epcot refurb where they will apparently be gutting the entire center of Future World to remove the Monorail line and then have the Skyway continue on from the International Gateway to the TTC. That would probably make the International Gateway TOO much of a main entrance then though.

Long story short, I bet they will keep the monorail for a while. This skyway just means all of our dreams of them extending the monorail to other resorts or DHS to be officially dead.

 

[The Expert]

I don't see that considering the monorail stations go "through" the resort hotels and around Epcot.

The loading stations for these types of cable car systems are often in and around buildings, so that wouldn't necessarily be a stopping point. I would suspect down time for transportation and costs of construction, however, could be. Assuming these are successful and maintenance costs on the monorail continue to climb, I can see it happening eventually, though.

 

[tjkraz]

Even though it is in the concept art, I could seem them using the Epcot refurb where they will apparently be gutting the entire center of Future World to remove the Monorail line and then have the Skyway continue on from the International Gateway to the TTC. That would probably make the International Gateway TOO much of a main entrance then though.

Long story short, I bet they will keep the monorail for a while. This skyway just means all of our dreams of them extending the monorail to other resorts or DHS to be officially dead.

All of that Epcot concept art is still "blue sky" and is very much subject to change. I'm not saying that to add credence to a monorail demolition theory, rather the removal of Innoventions hasn't even been set in stone yet.

The gondolas are probably 2 years away from opening. Even if Disney is entertaining the idea of trimming the monorail, I have no idea if those two timelines will jive. They probably want to gauge final construction and operational costs before any future projects are green lit. At the same time, I don't think the Epcot renovation will remain in flux for quite that long.

 

[rteetz]

All of that Epcot concept art is still "blue sky" and is very much subject to change. I'm not saying that to add credence to a monorail demolition theory, rather the removal of Innoventions hasn't even been set in stone yet.

The gondolas are probably 2 years away from opening. Even if Disney is entertaining the idea of trimming the monorail, I have no idea if those two timelines will jive. They probably want to gauge final construction and operational costs before any future projects are green lit. At the same time, I don't think the Epcot renovation will remain in flux for quite that long.

True, however it proves Future World will undergo big changes.

The Disney Skyliner is scheduled to open in time for Star Wars.

 

[Madonna3]

The fact that WDW has ridden the current monorail fleet into the ground would seem to leave that door open. However they've also invested a LOT of money into enhancing the control & safety systems of the monorails in recent years.

I have a hard time envisioning the Seven Seas Lagoon area with gondolas strung on lines rather than the monorail track. But I suspect gondolas would be cheaper to operate and possibly even more efficient.

Cause OSHA

 

[Madonna3]

I could see it to some extent (perhaps from Animal Kingdom Lodge to Animal Kingdom Park) - but I don't think we ever see them all over the place

Most extreme thing I could see would be replacing the monorail that goes from TTC to EPCOT with one (as those support beams are supposedly crumbling faster than the MK loop ones - were made "cheaper" to begin with) and something will have to be done with it in the (relatively) near future

I could see this. I could also see the previously mentioned POR, POFQ, SSR, and OKW loop to either MK or Epcot. POR is not that far from MK or Epcot.

 

[Future_WorldPhonencian]

Devil's advocate: the concrete monorail beams, trains and every aspect of the system are going to require ever-increasing maintenance over the years.

How much would it cost to "refurb" the existing monorail lines... havent they been doing a lot of work on the lines (not the cars) the past few years with all the closures? I can't imagine demolishing would be cheap or good PR especially with the capacities those things move around