Race Enhancements: Metal medals for 5Ks!

[rteetz]

The only reason it is odd to me is they are not a "Duo". When I think of Country Bear Jamboree, I don't think of 2 people who are a duo I think of the whole group of bears.

Now that I totally agree with. There isn't just two bears there's like 12.

 

[Disneyland_emily]

As for the price increase- i dont think they could go much higher without pricing themselves out.. Its already $25 a mile!

Only one of my races costs more than a dis 5k ($95 this year for the half and that includes a full color medal, shirt, towel, huge ayce breakfast with soda, juice & beer etc) and i dont run tiny local races...

 

[Barca33Runner]

Anyone else think they'll use this as a reason to increase 5K registration fees?!

In the past I've questioned, in my mind, whether the silicon/rubber medals were more expensive to manufacture. It can't be that much of a price difference in either direction I wouldn't think. I think this may have been a final concession to the fact that these are no longer "Family Fun Runs".

Of course, that really doesn't mean anything when it comes to whether they'll increase the fees for 5K registration.

 

[Ariel484]

As for the price increase- i dont think they could go much higher without pricing themselves out.. Its already $25 a mile!

Only one of my races costs more than a dis 5k ($95 this year for the half and that includes a full color medal, shirt, towel, huge ayce breakfast with soda, juice & beer etc) and i dont run tiny local races...

Ahhh I agree. Most expensive 5Ks I have participated in! They really get you with the X factor of running through a Disney park...because how do you put a price on that?

In the past I've questioned, in my mind, whether the silicon/rubber medals were more expensive to manufacture. It can't be that much of a price difference in either direction I wouldn't think. I think this may have been a final concession to the fact that these are no longer "Family Fun Runs".

That's a good point...they're ordering so many they must get some kind of deal.

I still think they're "Family Fun Runs" until they put chips on the bibs. That would probably make more of a price difference since they'd have to pay for chrono-track or whatever to do the timing.

Of course, that really doesn't mean anything when it comes to whether they'll increase the fees for 5K registration.

NOPE!

 

[Barca33Runner]

I still think they're "Family Fun Runs" until they put chips on the bibs. That would probably make more of a price difference since they'd have to pay for chrono-track or whatever to do the timing.

I've only run an rD 5k as part of Dopey, so I forgot that for the most part the 5Ks are not timed. I'll concede the point, they are still "Family Fun Runs."

 

[Ariel484]

I've only run an rD 5k as part of Dopey, so I forgot that for the most part the 5Ks are not timed. I'll concede the point, they are still "Family Fun Runs."

Ah! And funny enough I forgot that they chipped the 5K for Dopey (I've done maybe 5 Disney 5Ks and only one of those was part of Dopey).

Maybe they'll start offering women's cut shirts for the 5Ks at some point? I need them to do that please.

 

[goingthedistance]

While the real metal medals will be nice, this change and the digital programs does not solve the problems with runDisney. They need to do something about course crowding, address corral placement and abuse, and somehow validate the 16 minute pace for all runners including those who lie/cheat/corral jump to come in at 16+ pace because they are in an earlier corral. That's not fair to those who get swept because they were honest on their corral placement.

 

[wilkeliza]

While the real metal medals will be nice, this change and the digital programs does not solve the problems with runDisney. They need to do something about course crowding, address corral placement and abuse, and somehow validate the 16 minute pace for all runners including those who lie/cheat/corral jump to come in at 16+ pace because they are in an earlier corral. That's not fair to those who get swept because they were honest on their corral placement.

It is hard though to police the 16 minute pace before an event. They do check the links on most people (or at least I've been lead to believe they do) to make sure the results are real and valid. I'll give you a prime example. When I was running I was usually averaged to a 15 minute mile across a half. I had a 10K where I did a 13 minute mile. I used those interchangeably over 2 years to be able to get out of the last corral. My last 2 runs were dreadful. They were so bad I stopped running for awhile because something was up. I was in the right corral for what I am capable of doing but in at least one of those runs I ended up with a time over 16. There is no way I or Disney would have known that before hand so how could they have policed that?

 

[scottwvu]

I think my biggest question now will be....


Which will be the first Disney medal I receive.

Will it be the Mickey Holiday 5k in November, or the virtual 5k medal from June?

There will be suspense!

 

[goingthedistance]

It is hard though to police the 16 minute pace before an event. They do check the links on most people (or at least I've been lead to believe they do) to make sure the results are real and valid. I'll give you a prime example. When I was running I was usually averaged to a 15 minute mile across a half. I had a 10K where I did a 13 minute mile. I used those interchangeably over 2 years to be able to get out of the last corral. My last 2 runs were dreadful. They were so bad I stopped running for awhile because something was up. I was in the right corral for what I am capable of doing but in at least one of those runs I ended up with a time over 16. There is no way I or Disney would have known that before hand so how could they have policed that?

Everyone has a bad race from time to time. Unfortunately there are also people who intentionally cheat or corral jump to a faster corral knowing they do not belong there. They do this on purpose to get another 1-2 minute per mile cushion over the sweepers. They have no intention of coming in at under 16 pace.

A solution would be to give the finisher's medal to people who finish at 16+ (since they actually finished the course before it closed and those who are swept also get "finisher's" medals) but not award challenge medals to anyone who had a race at 16+. They check people's photo at the challenge tent anyway. It would be very easy to include a time check as well. If I recall correctly, I think they did this for Goofy 3 or 4 so there is some precedence for this. Additional precedence is they do not award challenge medals to those who are swept. Disney would need to be very clear about this enforcement before registration, and then they would need to enforce it. We all agree to the 16 minute pace when we sign up.

 

[camaker]

While the real metal medals will be nice, this change and the digital programs does not solve the problems with runDisney. They need to do something about course crowding, address corral placement and abuse, and somehow validate the 16 minute pace for all runners including those who lie/cheat/corral jump to come in at 16+ pace because they are in an earlier corral. That's not fair to those who get swept because they were honest on their corral placement.

I'll agree with you on the need to address course crowding and corral placement and abuse. There is, however, no need for them to do anything about those who come in at 16+ minute/mile paces during the races. RunDisney does not care (nor should they, really) about the pace that a participant can maintain as long as they are able to close out the event on schedule for the (re)opening of the affected parks and roads. The 16 minute/mile pace has nothing to do with the athletic integrity of the event or "qualifying" for the medal. It's sole purpose is for course time management.

 

[ZellyB]

I'll agree with you on the need to address course crowding and corral placement and abuse. There is, however, no need for them to do anything about those who come in at 16+ minute/mile paces during the races. RunDisney does not care (nor should they, really) about the pace that a participant can maintain as long as they are able to close out the event on schedule for the (re)opening of the affected parks and roads. The 16 minute/mile pace has nothing to do with the athletic integrity of the event or "qualifying" for the medal. It's sole purpose is for course time management.

I agree with this. My first marathon at Disney my overall pace ended up over the 16 m/m pace. I had a POT that earned me a middle of the pack corral placement which is a pace I can obviously maintain, but with Disney races I stop - a LOT - for pictures. It's why I pay the exorbitant price for a race and obviously it's something that Disney encourages or they wouldn't have characters on the course. As long as they get runners off the course in the time they need to reopen roads, I don't think they are much interested in the pace restrictions. I've run other local races as well that have pace restrictions and they are the same - the pace is basically based on the last runner to cross the start line. It's just at Disney that gap of time can be considerable due to the size of the entry field.

 

[goingthedistance]

My point is the same as Ariel484. Someone can lie or cheat their way into corral A. That gives the person 4:30+ to do the half marathon which is a whopping 20+ minutes per mile. An honest person starting where they are supposed to start because they actually followed the rules starts in O with the balloon ladies. Honest runner does their best but they get swept at mile 1 for an 18 minute mile. Cheater finishes and gets the GSC medal. Honest person does not. Why reward the deceitful person?

Impact to the rest of us is that person is now in front of just about everyone else. Get enough slower people in front of faster people and you get bottlenecks and course crowding. And I am saying this as someone who has finished Disney races everywhere from 1:55 for the half to 6:57 for the full (as Baymax would say "I am not fast.").

I don't think Disney will do anything about it either. Disney has their money and they want to avoid conflict to keep people coming back and spending more money.

 

[wilkeliza]

My point is the same as Ariel484. Someone can lie or cheat their way into corral A. That gives the person 4:30+ to do the half marathon which is a whopping 20+ minutes per mile. An honest person starting where they are supposed to start because they actually followed the rules starts in O with the balloon ladies. Honest runner does their best but they get swept at mile 1 for an 18 minute mile. Cheater finishes and gets the GSC medal. Honest person does not. Why reward the deceitful person?

Impact to the rest of us is that person is now in front of just about everyone else. Get enough slower people in front of faster people and you get bottlenecks and course crowding. And I am saying this as someone who has finished Disney races everywhere from 1:55 for the half to 6:57 for the full (as Baymax would say "I am not fast.").

I don't think Disney will do anything about it either. Disney has their money and they want to avoid conflict to keep people coming back and spending more money.

I'm just unsure what Disney is suppose to do. Are you saying a fun race should go to the extreme and be like Iron Man where no medal is given until finish time is confirmed? That is the only way the person who does 18+ out of A is going to get caught. As ZellyB said what if that 18+ out of A is because they stopped for characters, something Disney promotes as apart of their race? With Disney there are more variables then just running. The 16 min mile is gauged from the last corral becasue it is about clearing the roads and opening the parks not really about any sort of honestly or prestige to the event. Same goes for challenges. So is a 10 min mile runner doing Dopey never suppose to stop for photos? In a half just a couple of stops can push you into and past the 16 min mil average pretty quickly.

 

[goingthedistance]

My brainstorm solution is encountering resistance and differing opinion (which is fine....this is a discussion board after all). What would other people propose as enhancements/solutions to address course crowding and corral placement/abuse? What other enhancements would people like to see?

 

[wilkeliza]

Course crowding could be solved if they just sold less entries. I'm not sure what else could be done there. Perhaps better thought on the course but they are kind of stuck there. The boardwalk/beach/yacht club sections are always going to be crowded unfortunately. Same with the dirt path leading into ESPN from DHS.

Corral placement/abuse I'm not sure what to do there. I think that those who are dishonest and will cheat their way up to earlier corrals are going to find a way.

One suggestion I have had is that there needs to be a finishers ribbon and a participants ribbon. If you do not complete the mileage then you get a participant ribbon. If you finish the mileage no matter how long it take you on average then you get the finishers ribbon. It wouldn't really change much though. People are still going to do the race even though they know they can't. I do know people who admitted they were going to step up to the line and then walk to the first med tent so they could get their medal then call it a night.

 

[camaker]

My brainstorm solution is encountering resistance and differing opinion (which is fine....this is a discussion board after all). What would other people propose as enhancements/solutions to address course crowding and corral placement/abuse? What other enhancements would people like to see?

I think the problem is that there are so many reasons other than cheating that people may be mis-corraled I don't know of anything that RunDisney could feasibly do without coming across as overly draconian and risking the fun environment that they are trying to create for the races. Discrepancies in finish time and race pace may come from non-cheating reasons such as: slowing pace so as to be able to complete a challenge, stopping for photos, running the race while injured (my specialty) or undertrained due to injury/life getting in the way of training, slowing pace to run/walk with friends. Those are just the ones I can come up with off the top of my head. Unfortunately, I think these very valid reasons for not completing a race or running a race at "PR pace" which most people are going to submit, get lumped in with people's impressions and frustrations with "corral jumping" and "cheating".

Ultimately, in every race I have run, corraled or not, there have been slower people in front of me and faster people behind me. I try not to worry about them beyond the momentary aggravation that they cause as they pass me unexpectedly or as I have to work to pass them. I think we all have to learn to do a better job of enjoying the race that we run and worry less about what other people are doing, just like everything else in life.

 

[Disneyland_emily]

You also need to factor those who WOULD be faster under different conditions.. Those who are just coming back from injury, illness etc. I will be running prob one or two corrals slower this wine n dine than I normally would as I'll be 7 months pregnant. I plan to stay to the edge and rear of my corral but I don't anticipate dropping back corrals...

 

[Barca33Runner]

My brainstorm solution is encountering resistance and differing opinion (which is fine....this is a discussion board after all). What would other people propose as enhancements/solutions to address course crowding and corral placement/abuse? What other enhancements would people like to see?

I think the problem is that the solutions are all fairly easy to identify but virtually impossible to imagine rD implementing.

Corral placement/abuse is a relatively easy fix...as long as you can convince rD to enforce their current PoT system, check and verify the times submitted into the system, and then be willing to ruffle the feathers of runners who don't have verifiable times. Some people would still slip through the cracks, but it could be relatively successful if they were willing to do it.

Course crowding has multiple solutions. RunDisney could allow fewer entrants into their races. This could somewhat take care of itself in the future if road race entries continue to fade after the recent boom, but it seems unlikely that rD would willingly limit entries to a point where course crowding was no longer an issue. They could also have more corrals and/or a larger span between the release of corrals. With Park openings being the primary concern for the scheduling of the races this would also appear unlikely as it would require a longer time frame for each race. Assuming they can't allow for more time for each race under the current setup they could start the races earlier, but with the comically early transportation and starting line schedule they already have this also seems implausible. A last solution could be multiple courses to help with crowding but...yeah, they're not going to put in that much extra expense/effort.

I'm sorry if this reads too flippant. I think everyone is, from time to time, at least a little annoyed with the economic realities of how Disney operates. As you said, "Disney has their money..." I continue to be hopeful that rD will be proactive to find solutions to make their product better, but I am prepared to enjoy it for what it is in the event that they don't.

 

[cavepig]

I Like the metal medals. The country bear one looks cool, I love the bears even if extinct at Disneyland, they are classic. I skimmed the holiday 5k one as not to be spoiled. Captain 5k looks cool too. I'm sad about no printed guide, I like paper guides for mementos and easier to read versus staring at my phone if not at the computer. I'll end up printing out pages now which costs me more, not them...hmmm!

I think my biggest question now will be....


Which will be the first Disney medal I receive.

Will it be the Mickey Holiday 5k in November, or the virtual 5k medal from June?

There will be suspense!

Oh gosh same here how funny! Every day I'm like are they here...nope!