*** Updated to add spring break Data*** New Data, FP+ impacting wait times, discuss

[magicbob]

If you are Spock, then YES! \V/

Back by popular demand!

 

[WillAustin]

Disney has always planned beyond a horizon that you aren't even aware exists. Disney is playing chess and we're talking about checkers.

Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean Disney is actually good at chess.

 

[rastuso]

Agreed. I've discussed ad nauseum with my co-worker, and at it's core our beef is that Disney removing options/freedom for park goers.

Under FP-, anybody could tour the way I did. Many did not. Under FP+, nobody has that choice anymore...it's a removal of options.

To the question of what would happen if everybody used FP- the way I did...sure, while it would stink, the options are still all there for everybody. So I would have been ok with that...at least it would have happened within free market principles, rather than trying to be forced. In fact, my co-worker and I have often wondered why Disney just didn't do an all out blitz on FP-. Seems as though they are investing alot of manpower to educate on FP+...why not do that with FP-, and let the market fall where it may? I think the answer goes to other threads about the ultimate goal of FP+, which as near as I can figure is to try to ensure everybody has an "average" experience.

And if you want to experience everyone using FP- as a super user, visit Tokyo Disneyland. Especially on a busy day. I was lucky to get 3 FPs per day, and sat in looooong stanby lines. HOWEVER, I don't see that as any different than what FP+ is. So, even worst case FP- is at least equal to FP+. And I had a long commute to the park, so was never there at opening (my fault). Had I been, I would have gotten 3 or 4 FP-, and a couple RD E-tickets, which again, is no longer possible with FP+ on busy days.

-Jason

 

[FLchick415]

I don't know about anyone else, but now I want cupcakes. lol

 

[OtherScott]

Back by popular demand!

Perfect!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean Disney is actually good at chess.

I think that their results suggest otherwise...

 

[OtherScott]

Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean Disney is actually good at chess.

You're right, it could be mere blind luck.

 

[JimmyV]

Disney is trying to provide the maximum amount of today's guests with as enjoyable an experience as possible while building toward what it believes is its future success.

We argue about whether 3 pre-books are better than unlimited same-day-pulls, and whether or not Disney should model or compete head on with other theme parks. Disney knows more about why you love them than you do. And they know this about all of their guests, across every conceivable ethnic, national and socioeconomic demographic.

Disney knows more about your kids than you do, and knows that in a few short years they'll be the ones deciding where to take their kids. Disney knows why you come, why you'll eventually choose "competing" venues (which they consider as "complimentary") and why you'll come back.

They know how to connect to you through various platforms and emerging technologies. They have created strategic partnerships that build brand loyalty.

The only thing Disney desires more than loyal customers is a larger number of loyal customers. If their plans to achieve the latter leaves some less than satisfied, that's the unfortunate price that must be paid. It isn't personal, except for you.

Disney has always planned beyond a horizon that you aren't even aware exists. Disney is playing chess and we're talking about checkers.

*And by you, I don't mean you. I mean the collective of the 100s of millions who make pilgrimage to the parks around the world annually, take cruises and buy movies and videos and merchandise.

Ehh. Let's not assume that Disney is the world's greatest think tank. It's parks division is staffed by a lot of people who worked their way up in the company from ride operator to Senior VP in Charge of this and that. And good for them. I don't mean that as an insult. But let's not delude ourselves into believing that the people behind all these decisions are MENSA members or Stanford/MIT/Yale/Harvard/MIT grads. There is a lot of experience at Disney, but also a lot of intellectual mediocrity as well. They are perfectly capable of mis-reading the landscape...cough, cough...Disney Institute...cough.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

This is emphatically not true. Under the old system, you had two hour gaps between most of your FPs. You might have had one for 10:00, 1:30, 4:00 and 7:00. Now, you can go back-to-back-to-back and I suspect that many are. All of our FPs were for 1:00, 2:00 and 3:00. Or close to it. Little to no down time between FP rides at all.

If you get on at 1-lets say 1:15pm ride is tops 8min- takes maybe 10 minutes to walk to the next ride. What are you doing till 2? We can disagree just to disagree but the truth is that the system will allow you to be in the park for a certain amount of time and people spend money. Maybe not you but many will. Also more people will want advance use of the system meaning they will stay on site. That is more $$$$ as well.

 

[OtherScott]

Ehh. Let's not assume that Disney is the world's greatest think tank. It's parks division is staffed by a lot of people who worked their way up in the company from ride operator to Senior VP in Charge of this and that. And good for them. I don't mean that as an insult. But let's not delude ourselves into believing that the people behind all these decisions are MENSA members or Stanford/MIT/Yale/Harvard/MIT grads. There is a lot of experience at Disney, but also a lot of intellectual mediocrity as well. They are perfectly capable of mis-reading the landscape...cough, cough...Disney Institute...cough.

As opposed to what, this collective think tank?

What would an open minded exec conclude about FP+ from reading every thread in Theme Parks Attractions and Strategies?

 

[redrosesix]

Thanks for responding, and I get that.

One observation: If I'm Disney and I lose you at WDW but gain you at DLP, what have I lost? That's assuming that happens, and I understand it's not a given.

With parks around the world, the P&R SBU is less dependent on the foreign market specifically for DL or WDW than it once was. Just a thought.

We've looked at the other parks -- including DL, there are none that we'd spend 14 days at onsite. So Disney has lost 11 days of us, no matter where we go. DLP would be a short part of a longer Europe trip.

There are tons of Dis members that only go every 2-3 years. I think it's people like us, who have long annual vacations that are most likely to cut back significantly, skip a trip or spend their time elsewhere. In 2-3 years though, I'm sure things at wdw will have changed a lot one way or the other -- so I can't see those people making plans to cut back on Disney just yet.

 

[JimmyV]

If you get on at 1-lets say 1:15pm ride is tops 8min- takes maybe 10 minutes to walk to the next ride. What are you doing till 2?

It doesn't matter how one answers that question because one thing is certain. Whatever you do until 2:00 will be less than whatever you would do until 3:30 which is when your next FP would have been (at the earliest) under the old system. My point is that the spacing between Fast Passes has shrunk, especially when the conventional wisdom is to use them later in the day. That almost assures that you are going to schedule them in a crunched time frame. It's not just "me". This is the new normal.

 

[coopersmom]

First off, I really am pleased that it works for you (no sarcasm in here, I'm being sincere).

Most people who go on vacation have a vacation budget. So say they have one day for each park and have $200 to spend. Long waits on day one might drive them to the gift shop if they are doing what you believe they are and that may well be the case. But if they aimed to spend $50 a day and spent $100 on day one, they will only spend less over the next three days. I don't personally know anyone who spends out of their 'daily bread' money on vacation. As far as I have seen, most people, regardless of their destination, have a separate vacation account for savings and when it's gone, it's gone. I would love to contact my payroll office on Disney's free in-park wifi and ask them to give me a little more money so that I can pass the time in a gift shop instead of in line but the bottom line is, most people save very carefully for their vacation and don't have an enormous margin for error with spends.

Many people who go on vacation throw the budget out the window, but I still don't see this as a financial windfall for Disney. It's POSSIBLE that in the scenario discussed above people go, use their 3 FastPass+, find other lines unpalatably long and instead shop, spending more money than intended. BUT, and it's a big Fantasia Hippo-sized butt, they also leave having had a subpar experience. For the vast majority of Disney park goers it really is all about the rides. Sure, they like the cleanliness, the Disney details, swimming in the hotel pool, spending time with family, etc., but if Disney developed a park with immersive story-telling walkways and restaurants only, their attendance would be miniscule.

The amount of people I talk to think three things about Disney World: it's expensive, it's hot and it's crowded. "All we did is wait in line," is the mantra of the one-timer. And that's often WHY they're one-timers.

FastPass+ does NOT alleviate it, in its current form, for either the supermajority, or the former superusers. Sure, you may get on 3 rides--perhaps not the ones you even wanted--somewhat quicker than before if you never used legacy FastPass, but basically no one goes into a Disney vacation saying they happily plan to only to ride three rides a day for their exorbitant entry price. And please spare us the story of your Grandma, Grandpa, Grand Niece or Second Cousin Twice Removed who loves Disney and never rides a single ride and would happily pay twice the current tariff to do that. Those folks are the extremely rare exception, usually brought along to the park as part of a larger family group to boot, most of whom came because they want to ride rides.

And the idea that wanting to ride a favorite, 60-90 second ride more than once without waiting 2 hours for the privilege makes you a selfish jerk? Umm, not so much.

 

[JimmyV]

As opposed to what, this collective think tank?

What would an open minded exec conclude about FP+ from reading every thread in Theme Parks Attractions and Strategies?

That's not where I was going with this at all. The implication of your earlier post was that the brain trust at Disney has thought this thing out far more than we can ever imagine and that it is assured of success because Disney is so talented that there is no way for their state-of-the-art system to fail. All I am saying is that the people who dreamed this system up may not be as infallible as you think. There is a reason why they are soliciting so much user feedback (including from this collective think tank). They are already reaching the conclusion that their system is hitting walls. Corporate America does make errors in judgment sometimes. So let’s not assume that Disney knows more about the wants and needs of my family than I do.

 

[glamdring269]

There is potential Disney could lose us. Lots can happen between now and October but if they don't allow FP+ at multiple parks by then when paying for Park Hopper I will be very disappointed.. We've never been to Universal but will be starting our trip with 3 nights at (likely) Hard Rock and 4 days in the parks there. Following that up with 5 nights at BWV and 6 days at the parks (with park hopper).

WDW may have some high standards to live up to after enjoying Universal for 3-4 days using Express Pass. Like I said, I've never been there before but will be very interesting to see how it compares to FP+.

(FYI, I did test FP+ back in October but it was just an added benefit and I can't really judge it on it's own. We always RD and were pretty good at pulling paper FP. RD and both FP types was like video game God mode hah.)

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

We've looked at the other parks -- including DL, there are none that we'd spend 14 days at onsite. So Disney has lost 11 days of us, no matter where we go. DLP would be a short part of a longer Europe trip.

There are tons of Dis members that only go every 2-3 years. I think it's people like us, who have long annual vacations that are most likely to cut back significantly, skip a trip or spend their time elsewhere. In 2-3 years though, I'm sure things at wdw will have changed a lot one way or the other -- so I can't see those people making plans to cut back on Disney just yet.

I see what you're saying -- I think the jury's still out on how much even the most FP+-dissatisfied people will cut back -- in reality -- even in the short term (beyond, let's say, the one trip they already may have planned). And I totally agree that 2-3 years will likely bring enough changes that most big Disney fans won't decide that this far out.

 

[redrosesix]

you can park hop. When you choose pick 2 that you want then third whatever. When you go to your new park you can open the app and switch the third for what is available at the new park.

Actually you can't. As soon as you use a FP in one park, you are locked out of selecting them in any other parks that day. Even if there was a glitch that allowed that temporarily, it wouldn't be good planning advice to tell people that was possible.

Having said that... as it stands now, you can select your FPs for one park and change them ALL to another park, even day-of, if you haven't used any yet. I can see this being a good strategy if you get to a park and decide it's too ridiculously crowded to stay, or the weather changes and you think you'd be better off in another park ie. you don't necessarily have to stay somewhere that you don't want to be.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

There is potential Disney could lose us. Lots can happen between now and October but if they don't allow FP+ at multiple parks by then when paying for Park Hopper I will be very disappointed.. We've never been to Universal but will be starting our trip with 3 nights at (likely) Hard Rock and 4 days in the parks there. Following that up with 5 nights at BWV and 6 days at the parks (with park hopper).

WDW may have some high standards to live up to after enjoying Universal for 3-4 days using Express Pass. Like I said, I've never been there before but will be very interesting to see how it compares to FP+.

(FYI, I did test FP+ back in October but it was just an added benefit and I can't really judge it on it's own. We always RD and were pretty good at pulling paper FP. RD and both FP types was like video game God mode hah.)

Did you decide to do Universal BECAUSE OF FP+, or were you planning on trying it regardless? I ask because we've talked about trying a few days at Universal at some point, but that is driven by the kids' ages and interest in the Universal offerings. Whether we go to Universal or not has nothing to do with FP+.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Actually you can't. As soon as you use a FP in one park, you are locked out of selecting them in any other parks that day. Even if there was a glitch that allowed that temporarily, it wouldn't be good planning advice to tell people that was possible.

Having said that... as it stands now, you can select your FPs for one park and change them ALL to another park, even day-of, if you haven't used any yet. I can see this being a good strategy if you get to a park and decide it's too ridiculously crowded to stay, or the weather changes and you think you'd be better off in another park ie. you don't necessarily have to stay somewhere that you don't want to be.

In Feb there was a day that we got to the park and decided that since we got so much done in the first couple of hours (before using any FP+ in that park), we'd reschedule all our FP+ to another park and hop to it. Worked really well.

Would be great if you could do the same after using one FP+ in the current park, let's say... Seems like if they're available to book in that 2nd park, Disney would not be disadvantaged (crowd-control-wise) if they let you switch them. Guess we'll see what changes come...

 

[Love Tink]

If you get on at 1-lets say 1:15pm ride is tops 8min- takes maybe 10 minutes to walk to the next ride. What are you doing till 2?

Allow me to blow your mind.

If I had a 1:00 FP+ and a 2:00 FP+ I would...ride the first one, then ride/see something using stand by...then probably ride/see something else using stand by...then maybe ride/see something else using stand by...then use the second FP+ (maybe closer to 3:00 than 2:00).

Seriously? In your mind the only thing someone could do between two FP+ "appointments" is spend money? (Admit it, you work for Disney. LOL)

Am I now only supposed to ride three rides a day and spend money in between? There are attractions in every park that can be experienced with a minimum wait at almost any time of day. I'm not being compelled by forces beyond my control to buy a Mickey tchotchke.